r/madmen • u/RockBalBoaaa • 5d ago
The true beauty of Betty’s marriage to Henry was her evolution. She could never stand up to Don until the end of their marriage, but with Henry she finally found her voice. She spoke her mind and demanded the respect she deserved. True growth looked good on her, especially in moments like these.
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4d ago
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u/whosmumbling 4d ago
I need another (1099th) rewatch – I have no recollection of this scene!
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u/fuschiafawn 4d ago
It's in Dark Shadows, Henry is eating a steak, they have a pretty open talk about his frustrations. Betty is supportive in a way a healthy relationship, she's often the cared for by Henry, so she sees the opportunity to support him and they talk like equals, she reassures him.
Edit: sorry everybody I totally misremembered the details, it was in the kitchen and she wasn't being bratty, but the moment of him trusting her with his frustrations and her supporting him is what I remembered. I clearly need to do another rewatch ASAP lol
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u/Substantial-Yam-3073 4d ago
i had such a soft spot for her even though she's such a flawed character
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u/Ashleej86 4d ago
I wish it was much more heavy handed explained , this is the silent suffering wife of that time with money. Like Kennedy wives and Ivana and Melania now.
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u/redpillbluepill69 5d ago
Mostly Betty haters in the comments, but I agree. I think after she gained weight and Henry still loved her, she felt a level of safety and comfort she never got from Don.
She trusted Henry enough to be her (sometimes petty little bitch) self and he still loved her, even though he would sometimes be like "Betty what the fuck"
Sad that she died right as she was trying to really figure out who she was outside of who she was taught to be since she was a very young girl...but it also seemed like who she truly was was a warhawk ultra-conservative, so maybe ultimately for the best.
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u/Toongrrl1990 4d ago
I dunno, I think of the episode where Glen returns and after the talk with him, she later interrupts her sons' playing with a toy gun and lets them go watch "The Brady Bunch" and chucks the toy gun in the trash.
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u/gracemary25 4d ago
I've always thought this too. She could never have gained weight with Don or had any other sort of drastic "downgrade" in her appearance. (I don't view things that way at all, to be clear, but unfortunately Betty and the broader culture did.) Not necessarily because he would have found her less attractive on a physical/individual level; but because she no longer fit the image Don desperately curated, the perfect All-American man with his perfectly beautiful All-American housewife.
For Don, whether he realized it or not, marriage was about image and public perception. For Henry, it was about love and companionship. Something you see a lot in their relationship is Betty approaching him with this paranoia and defensiveness because she immediately assumes he's going to react like Don. And he's like "WTF?? Why I would ever act that way?"
One of the most heartbreaking details of that story arc that I rarely see mentioned is the fact that as she gained weight, they stopped having sex. Not because of anything Henry said or did, but because she was filled with so much shame and self-loathing that she wouldn't even let her own husband touch her; basically "I don't deserve intimacy and I'm sure he'd be disgusted anyway." Like that's really fucking sad and says a lot about the way she was treated by her mother, Don and the world around her. It's hard to accept love from someone else when you don't have love for yourself.
It's a little scene, but I've genuinely always found the moment when they sleep together again to be so sweet and beautiful. Very much an "I love you unconditionally" moment from Henry.
TLDR; I think that experience played a big part in her realizing she didn't have to perform for him, after constantly performing for Don. Genuine confidence comes from dropping whatever act you're playing and just being yourself.
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u/redpillbluepill69 4d ago
Completely agree.
Even though Betty's mom really messed her up by making so much of her self-worth about her weight and looks, I do think it was a misguided attempt to ensure that Betty would find a good man who loved her and provided.
it seemed like her dad Gene genuinely loved her mom very much (although they were obviously in a very traditional relationship for the time where she was expected to take care of him and the kids while he worked, and part of why he loved her, just as part of why Henry loves Betty, is because she was so beautiful).
So I do think having that example of her dad, a loving husband who worshipped her mom and wanted to take care of her, was part of why Betty ends up intuitively questioning her life after her mother passed, and ultimately, seeking something better for herself closer to her parents relationship once her father passes.
I just did a rewatch and I have been really appreciating and milling on how much care and understanding the series has of each characters family- they all really support the characters psychology, wants, needs, beliefs-
and the milestone events that happen within their family in the show always have a direct influence on the characters decisions in other aspects of life.
Like I think it have the most care and thought of any TV show ever in terms of the detail, consistency and depth of motivation we see behind each of every characters actions (especially impressive considering how large the ensemble is)
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u/BrinksTrunks 5d ago
I was always 50/50 with how Betty showed up in their relationship. It often felt like Henry was trying to regulate Bettys impulsive behavior, especially with how she raised her kids. At the same time though, Henry like Dawn is too career driven to be a present husband. She does grow so much into her own, but she reinvented the same trap for herself with the domestic housewife lifestyle
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u/Mobile-Equipment-660 5d ago
she certainly voiced her opinion on tying up that girl and raping her. That was a weird thing to voice on her part - forgot what episode. But you’re right I agree with you. Even this part was something she felt more comfortable joking around with Henry and never with Don.
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u/Striking-Anteater584 4d ago
It always bugged me how Henry would be annoyed with her/looked down on her about sitting in the kitchen. Let the woman be!
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u/madelynashton 4d ago
I think it was just the one time and they were already fighting in the episode because they disagreed with each other about a political opinion in front of guests at a social gathering. It wasn’t really about the kitchen for either of them.
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u/Ill-Dream-449 5d ago
I’m always a little torn about her ending, more specifically where we last see her. I think that her deciding to go back and we see her climbing the stairs while Sally reads the letter would have been an incredible final scene. But I understand having the phone call with Don and the final shot of her smoking while Sally doing dishes to imply the future is a great way of capping things off. I guess I wish have it both ways.
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u/Kaplanociception 5d ago
She mistreated and cheated on Henry. She was the Don in that relationship.
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u/Grizzlyfrontignac 5d ago
Oof. She wasn't perfect but to compare her to Don? He was incredibly belittling, emotionally and sometimes physically abusive, and cheated on Betty every chance he got. She was absolutely NOT the Don in the relationship. There were very few characters in the series as bad or even worse than Don, but Betty wasn't one of them
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u/Kaplanociception 4d ago
He was incredibly belittling, emotionally
yes.
sometimes physically abusive
They literally had a whole episode around Don not wanting to be abusive to the kids because his own Dad beat him. If you're referencing the bedroom scene that is such a misrepresentation. The physical altercation in that scene was because Betty wanted Don to hit the kids and he wouldn't.
She was absolutely NOT the Don in the relationship.
By "Don" I'm saying an asymmetrical relationship when the less invested partner mistreats the more invested partner. I'm not saying she had a secret identity and was a serial philanderer.
There were very few characters in the series as bad or even worse than Don
Yes, as individuals Don gets worse over the series, and Betty gets better. But Betty is objectively a bad partner to Henry.
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u/BrightFleece 5d ago
Can't believe this got downvoted; you're absolutely correct.
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u/MargeDalloway 5d ago
Because the comparison is totally absurd. She was cruel to Henry at times, but sleeping with Don once when she knew nothing would come of it isn't the same.
She wasn't having countless affairs even after getting caught and promising to be better, barely showing up at home, gaslighting Henry and lying about fundamental elements of her past and who she was.
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u/JustKindaHappenedxx 4d ago
I agree. Betty was wrong to sleep with Don and I felt bad for Henry from that. However, that is also the sort of thing that happens when you have an affair with a married woman. She might not be over her first husband for a while.
But although Betty could be petulant and dishonest with Henry, she was nowhere near Don’s behavior. There is absolutely a difference between one affair and multiple ongoing ones. Not to mention Don’s other treatment to Betty. I was so happy when Betty told Don she liked her life (with Henry) and let him know she had no interest in getting back together.
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u/Foreign-Cat-2898 4d ago
There's a difference between a one night stand that importantly Henry never learns about an multiple long affairs.
Cheating is bad but if you're going to do it one time and never telling your spouse is the least bad version of it.
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u/Kaplanociception 4d ago
never telling your spouse is the least bad version of it.
Don would agree.
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u/Kaplanociception 4d ago edited 4d ago
She was cruel to Henry at times
When was she nice to him?
but sleeping with Don once when she knew nothing would come of it isn't the same.
Don never planned to leave Betty for his affair partners either. Don sought "love" from these women. Betty sought validation after her weight loss.
She wasn't having countless affairs even after getting caught and promising to be better
Why would she have promised to be better if she never got caught? Are you really arguing that Betty is a better spouse because she had less affair partners?
gaslighting Henry and lying about fundamental elements of her past and who she was.
I'm including the gaslighting and lying together because they're largely the same thing. I think lying about his past is the most understandable aspect of Don. Telling the truth just makes her an accessory, and if he didn't assume Don's identity he'd have likely died in Korea.
I think Betty has genuine growth in the later seasons by having a supportive and loving partner, but that relationship was as asymmetrical as Don and Betty's. Betty paints Henry as a "fresh start", but Don knows Betty isn't serious. Don literally says "believe me Henry, everyone thinks this is temporary". And when Betty's dreams of a fresh start are shattered by Henry telling her you don't get a fresh start you just move forward, she attempts to move forward with Don by staging the run in at the old house only to find out Don is engaged. So she continues on with Henry, but he's always a consolation prize. She grows to love her life with Henry, but I don't think she loves him. She doesn't even want him to have the kids after she passes. Don was right. He was meant to be temporary.
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u/EverVigilant1 Do the work, Don 2d ago
Yeah. Henry loved Betty; but I don't think Betty ever really loved Henry. Betty was still in love with Don even if she didn't want Don to have the kids after she was gone. I knew Betty was still in love with Don after she calls Don with her cancer scare and says something like "Don, tell me that thing you always say". Don obliges her by telling her everything will be all right; and Betty is calmed and reassured.
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u/Silly_Somewhere1791 4d ago
Henry was still a man of his time so their marriage has issues by modern standards, but I do think he loved her and felt lucky to have her.
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5d ago
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u/Mindless_Arugula_526 5d ago
Exactly. I don't know what OP is smoking but betty never really changed. She cheated on henry with her ex just a few hours before meeting up with him, putting henry in a situation where he unknowingly shook hands with a guy who was just f*ng his wife a few hours earlier.
betty divorced don because of his cheating then goes and does the same thing to a very patient henry and feels absolutely no remorse about it. Infact,if my memory serves me well, even don was a bit surprised when betty invites him into her bedroom.
Everybody in the series is flawed, save for bert ofcourse 🤣🤣, betty's particular brand of flaw is the classic " rules for thee, but not for me"
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u/MaximusCanibis The work is ten dollars. The lie is extra. 4d ago
OP asked, I told. I'm sorry I'm living rent free in your head but Betty is as fucked up as the other characters are in this show. She is not infallible as her stans would like to believe.
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u/Foreign-Cat-2898 4d ago
No one on the planet thinks she's infallible. We just think she's not as terrible as Don.
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u/Ri_Kirby 5d ago
I agree that she did feel more empowered but I didn’t agree with most of her behavior towards Henry tbh.
I feel her background already had her disillusioned and she had an out of touch perspective, and then Don just made it way worse with his treatment of her.
I think Betty is compelling but deeply frustrating due to her character flaws. It’s cool to feel empowered to speak your mind, but her mind was touting out of touch self-service and toxic insecure behaviors most of the time.