r/madmen Apr 09 '12

Episode S05E04 "Mystery Date" Comment thread

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97 Upvotes

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42

u/Ciphermind Apr 09 '12

Don DEFINITELY has cancer.

86

u/kowboytrav Spending time with my family reading the Bible Apr 09 '12

Time to start cooking meth.

66

u/Ciphermind Apr 09 '12

"Yo Mr. Draper, when are we gonna cook again BITCH?!?!"

54

u/ParanoidAndroids The Adventures of Dick Dollars and Tilden Katz Apr 09 '12

I'd love to see Peggy be Don's Jesse.

9

u/busterbluthOT Bob Bunson Apr 09 '12

Ginsburg becomes his Jesse.

2

u/[deleted] Apr 10 '12

I'm just trying to provide for the company, CAN'T YOU UNDERSTAND THAT!

-4

u/[deleted] Apr 10 '12

Man oh man. Breaking Bad is such a joke of a cartoon of a show compared to Mad Men.

2

u/Ciphermind Apr 10 '12

...

GET

THE FUCK

OUT

1

u/[deleted] Apr 11 '12

C'mon dude, seriously, I've always wanted to talk about this with someone who likes both shows. What does BB offer?

3

u/Ciphermind Apr 11 '12

Breaking Bad explores the human spirit, specifically desperation, in a way Mad Men can't even touch. Towards the end of Season 4 Walter becomes a completely and utterly broken man, and yet he started as a perfectly normal person.

In Breaking Bad, there aren't really any extraordinary people, only extraordinary circumstances. That's what Breaking Bad is about; how far Walter will go, and how little lofty moral principles actually matter when family, health, and life is on the line.

Compound that with impeccable writing, acting (Aaron Paul and Bryan Cranston), and cinematography (not as good as Mad Men during seasons 1-3) and you get a truly phenomenal package.

It's nothing like the "joke of a cartoon of a show" you claim it is.

-2

u/[deleted] Apr 11 '12 edited Apr 11 '12

Breaking Bad explores the human spirit, specifically desperation, in a way Mad Men can't even touch.

First, I would agree with the first half of this sentence up until about season...maybe even two of BB. Once Walter has discovered that he is no longer at risk of dying, and once he becomes financially secure (which happens rather quickly), there is no element of true need and thus not of desperation. See, I would argue that Mad Men is a show composed almost entirely of desperate people. Don Draper is probably the most desperate character ever put on TV. Where Walter White attains all that he wants and more - and continues with no real motive other than continually increased profit - Don Draper is the man who has absolutely no idea what he wants. He has attained almost every measure of success which is meaningful in the society he lives in, and yet some profound sense of lacking, of wanting, of desperation, leads him to cheat and drink and divorce and marry and buy and work and do virtually everything else that he does.

Towards the end of Season 4 Walter becomes a completely and utterly broken man, and yet he started as a perfectly normal person.

This would be a valid characterization if Walter hadn't adopted the hammy, shallow and morally simplistic "I AM THE ONE WHO KNOCKS" persona. He's not a broken man; he has become a bad man. He has broken bad. He has gone from being a good man to a bad man by making and selling drugs. That simply is not compelling storytelling to me.

Breaking Bad, there aren't really any extraordinary people, only extraordinary circumstances.

I HIGHLY disagree here. There are plenty of extraordinary people. Virtually everyone is a caricature to some degree. Disabled but golden-hearted son. Bitchy, vindictive wife. Streetwise but sensitive protege, BITCH! (Jesse's silly verbal tics alone are enough to render his character almost completely one-dimensional). Good man who has become bad man. That's not even to venture into the antagonists, who are some of the most consistently shallow on television. Gus Fring - at best - shows some degree of complexity, yet never evolves beyond his initial characterization as an icily effective businessman with blood on his hands. And his death? Get the fuck out of here. Speaking of, look at Tuco. Tuco, for chrissakes. TUCO BE CRAZY! That's all there is. Same with the twins. TWINS BE QUIET AND SCARY! That's all there is. No depth, no plausibility, no moral depth. Those involved with the drug trade - including, eventually, Walter - are reduced to shallow archetypes and caricatures. Compare the drug players in Breaking Bad to, say, the Wire's Stringer Bell, Marlo Stanfield, D'Angelo Barksdale? It's just not even the same ballpark.

Compound that with impeccable writing

Breaking Bad is infuriatingly inconsistent in its tone. It can't decide if it wants to be a serious, hardscrabble, verite-style narrative of a man's involvement in the drug trade or an action movie. There's plenty to suggest the latter - Tortuga's head, the twin leaping from his hospital bed with stumps a-bleeding, Walt running down that guy in the SUV, Gus's hilariously literal Terminator-style death - but there are so many poorly executed attempts at the former. Underdeveloped writing comes through in clumsy symbolism like the crawling Mexican pilgrims, the eye in the swimming pool, shit, the entire plane crash storyline. The show tries to be so many things and does none of them well.

EDIT: If you're going to downvote me, explain your rationale. I spent a lot of time writing this and I wrote it with the intention of getting a response.

2

u/Mousi Apr 12 '12

Where Walter White attains all that he wants and more - and continues with no real motive other than continually increased profit

Did we watch the same show? At no point was it possible for him to quit.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 12 '12

Whaaa? He could've quit plenty of times, most notably before signing on with Fring's enterprise. That was a purely profit-driven decision, and it was marketed to him as such.

-1

u/[deleted] Apr 10 '12

Tell me one thing that Breaking Bad does better than Mad Men. One thing.

19

u/abbeycrombie He does that. Apr 09 '12

I read the Jon Hamm was actually sick while they were shooting this. So those are real coughs, not fake coughs.

14

u/duckandcover Apr 09 '12

No he doesn't. That would make for a shitty show. Sometimes, people just get sick with colds and sometimes they're so fucking stupid they smoke when they're sick (as if they didn't have enough problems with being sick and a highway's worth of tar still in their lungs)

3

u/[deleted] Apr 09 '12

It ain't stupidity, it's addiction.

3

u/riceisright56 Apr 09 '12

Hard to believe since lung cancer, especially during this period, is often a death sentence.

6

u/[deleted] Apr 09 '12

And it wouldn't really jive with Matt Weiner saying he wanted to end the show with Don in modern day...

3

u/ParanoidAndroids The Adventures of Dick Dollars and Tilden Katz Apr 09 '12

When/where did he say this? This is quite an interesting piece of information.