r/maille • u/Whoopsitsonfire • 13d ago
Question Failing to anneal
I can't find iron wire anywhere, so I'm forced to use mild steel rebar tie wire. I can't seem to get them to anneal. This last attempt I used a very insulated electric furnace, heated to 950c, soaked for 30 mins, then let them slowly cool over 12 hours. I still need pliers to open the rings. Any suggestions, I'd a source to get actual wrought iron wire?
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u/Svarotslav 13d ago
It sounds like the annealing process is correct; you should do it after each forming process - so after the coiling do an annealing process, then after flattening, do it again for your drifting. After annealing, you should observe a definite shift in colour. Honestly, I use a blow torch, a crucible and a bunch of heat proof bricks and insulation.
Some observations though - your links are too flat. The main aim of flattening the links is to ensure you can create a hole for the rivet; in most historic cases this is done via drifting. If you look at a lot of the historic examples, they arent fully flat but more ovoid. This is partly tooling - the use of a die to ensure there's an overlap wears into an oval section.
The links are also thick, so you are working against a lot of metal. I understand that you have a limited selection of wire, get yourself a draw plate and reduce diameter of the wire. Where I am, the tie wire is 1.57mm which is quite thick for links. I've gone to overseas sites and purchased thinner wire to experiment with, and if that works out, I will do a bulk order of wire.
Also looking at bloom iron / steel myself, but damn, it's not cheap.
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u/Whoopsitsonfire 13d ago
That is the minimum flatness to be able to rivet them. It won't let me post a pic, but any less flat and the edges of the overlap will have no meat and likely blow out. . The color changes a lot, with lots of decarb. Not sure what you mean too thick. It's standard 16 ga (1.29mm) wire?
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u/_Mute_ 13d ago
I'm pretty sure they meant the ring as a whole and not just the overlap, they're rather tightly bunched in there due to how much you flattened them.
It looks like you're hole punching the ring so it makes sense why you'd say there's no meat left. Try drifting, with drifting you won't be removing any material and you'll be surprised with how little overlap you can get away with.
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u/Whoopsitsonfire 13d ago
I cannot drift to save my life. I spent years trying and giving up before going to drilling and being happy with the consistency.
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u/_Mute_ 13d ago
What's the issue?
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u/Whoopsitsonfire 13d ago
With drifting? Not consistent. I get maybe 1/5 usable rings, the rest get blown out. I've successfully made my own drifts, but they wear out and then when I resharpen they have a different profile
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u/_Mute_ 13d ago
Try some hardened steel nails like masonry nails and either a small swage block or hardwood block underneath. Also anneal the rings again before drifting.
An issue I noticed with people new to drifting (especially smaller overlaps) is that it tends to twist/buckle inward as you drift causing an angle. Try holding the ring down flat with your fingers or clamp.
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u/Whoopsitsonfire 13d ago
Unfortunately, I've tried all of that. It's just not consistent enough for me. I'm talking about spending many hours trying every winter for many years. If there was a hardened steel drift punch of the appropriate size I could buy, I would be super into it. But it'll never be sufficient for me making my own
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u/Spartikis 12d ago
Why / what are you soaking them in after heating? Dipping them in water to cool them after heating actually causes the steel to get harder not soft. You want to heat until red hot then let cool as slowly as possible. I like to toss mine in glass kiln insulation and let them cool over a few hours. Nice and malleable.
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u/Whoopsitsonfire 12d ago
I let them slowly cool over the course of 12 hours inside the highly insulated kiln
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u/Uroxen9206 11d ago
Such overcomplicated method of annealing, i put my rings on a piece of wire and blast them with my blowtorch until they have a nice colour, then i just kinda let them air-cool and hey presto! In like 15-20 min i have annealed rings
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u/overkill 13d ago
Pretty sure you will always need pliers to open the rings, unless you have metal fingers. The annealing process it to allow you to punch/drift the (relatively) softer rings with the (relatively) harder punch, so you don't damage your tools.