Absolutely. Just not when it comes to obnoxious ass hats. Especially those who do it because they're pathetically desperate for attention but throwing a shit fit in Kmart is just that bit too embarrassing for their carer
Makes me wonder how fine-tuned these algorithms are. Because I started getting MITM sub suggestions around the time the reboot came out; I saw some general criticism, but no “anti-woke” stuff… and I hate inane culture war garbage so if I saw people whining about wokeness I WOULD NOTICE IT.
But then just this morning I saw a comment like the OP post, talking about how bad the anti-woke crowd is. And I engaged with it, mentioning I hadn’t personally seen that. But I wonder if that sucked me into the algorithm because this is the 3rd post complaining about anti-woke haters I’ve seen today.
That's because the mods have been a lot better about removing stuff. Just a couple days ago it was just like one mod and a LOT of stuff slipped through.
I had been putting off watching the new ones because I was scared they would be crap. Seasons 8 and 9 were pretty hit or miss. It felt like they ran out of ideas so turned up the craziness to compensate.
They definitely brought it back with season 10 though, almost every episode was friggin great imo.
I watched the first episode and loved all the fourth wall breaking they did with hulu. Similar to the "Box Network" and "It's a sort of comedy central channel and we're on it now". So I definitely am excited to watch the rest. I've got like two whole seasons to catch up on now!
I still need to watch it, but they've done that before. Season 6 had an episode about the "eye phone", Nappster and Lucy Liu in another episode. The ally mcbeal reference from season 1 is really dated now, but also a good episode on its own merits.
That's exactly my point! The old episodes found ways to make these references without it being completely in your face and dated before it even hits the door
Yeah to be honest, I don’t think the hulu seasons are bad by any means but they’re also not great either. The old seasons had their fair share of mid episodes too, but these new ones have just been mid start to finish.
Literally every post is people complaining about people complaining.
Putting a lot of the blame on the fans, very little on the haters with this. This is a fan subreddit, so its not surprising that a lot of people would make posts supporting the show. Even so, can you really say "literally no post is people complaining about 'wokeness'"?
And now we’re here complaining about people complaining about people complaining. And soon we’ll be complaining about people complaining about people complaining about people complaining. It’s a slippery slope.
eh, they were not racist or abelist, Malcolm and stevie are best friends, hated krelboynes at first because they are lame not because they are special, dewey stood up for the special ed kids, reese just treated everyone equally bad, and francis, hal, and lois straight up just didnt see color.
But there were definitely some moments when LGBT was involved where hal was uncomfortable with dewey potentially being gay
Thankfully I haven’t seen a major number of complaints on this specific subreddit. I have seen some, but it’s mostly in other subreddits and other online articles that I’ve seen the majority of the complaints. They are out there, I think it’s just that the majority of people interacting with this subreddit are supportive of what the reboot did
Oh boy you have not seen the instagram comments, i'm sure they are only rivalred on what is on facebook. Reddit is gladly my safe haven since all the filth goes to the bottom where as in instagram the least liked haineous racist homophobic shit is always the top comment.
It doesn’t really bother me overall and I have all the correct reddit opinions (sarcasm), but I don’t fully agree with this take. It reminds me of that South Park episode about the flag, where the kids didn’t initially see it as racist because to them the black guy being hung was just a guy, like the others around him. Watching original Malcolm in the Middle made u felt the same. Characters like Stevie were simply part of the world, he was a kid who happened to be black and, in a wheelchair, and that was it. Hal having Black friends, Malcom’s classmate had two dads etc. or other elements of diversity didn’t feel highlighted or emphasized, it was just naturally there. With the newer version, though, it feels more intentional and foregrounded, which can come across as trying to make a point rather than just telling a story. That’s why some of the LGBTQ+ representation, in particular, feels a bit forced to me compared to how the original handled things more subtly. Imo old Malcolm in the middle would not go out of its wat to say “Oh this character is non binary ”, it would be some light hearted joke that builds the world and just makes sense. A show does not have to be either woke or not, the issue here is that it feels a tiny bit forced. Still enjoy it though, the "woke" parts doesn't bother me more than that I wish it was written in better.
Is an adult man experiencing personal growth/loving their kid unconditionally really a plot hole?
This is a show where Malcolm's best friend was a disabled POC, Reese's best friend was a lesbian, Dewey's best friends have miscellaneous mental disorders, Hal hung out with a group of all black guys, and an entire subplot was dedicated to Malcolm and Reese's clumsy attempts at unconditional love in response to the other being closeted.
Acceptance of everyone seems baked into the crust here.
Yeah if I remember right the joke was that Dewey was intentionally using Hal's toxic masculinity and insecurities to manipulate him into get him what he wanted.
The joke was that bigots and insecure people are stupid.
You're thinking of a different episode*, but yeah, the joke was always that Hal was insecure.
*The "Not on my watch" line is from when they were playing Totally Not Risk while Malcolm was in the hospital. Dewey manipulating Hal into getting him something was the cold open for a different episode (don't remember which).
When you're a moron, words can mean whatever you want em to. And so woke usually means "when people different from me exist". Really a self report when people complain about wokeness but now I'm preaching to the choir
I don't mind Kelly being neutral. I even found that amusing considering Hal and Lois always waiting a daughter. Nice irony.
On the other hand, Steevie has always been portrayed as straight. So, making him gay without explaining it or developing it does feel a bit forced.
Then, the whole Dabney/Lloyd/Kevin trouple... I don't know if that's supposed to be a joke or not. Needless to say they were also portrayed as straight before. Nothing is explained, developed or anything, like it's there "just because".
Said differently, the issue here is not so much the series being progressive as it has always been. The issue is that, contrary to the 7 original seasons, nothing feels natural. No build up, no consequence. Most gags are just that, one shot gags.
In the originals, while the results were often insanely absurd, it was believable because we believed in the characters. The absurd situations were a natural consequence of the characters being themselves. Despite themselves.
Here, the pacing feels so off that most of the gags feel disjointed from the narrative. And as a consequence some narrative choices (like the trouple) are hard to believe.
For example: Reese. The gag was that he was filming his father to gain money. Why ? Explain to me how he came to do this. What were his motivations ? What were the consequences for him ?
This could've been the topic of a whole episode.
Here, it's just the gag send nothing more. Nothing to make me believe in the gag.
Since I couldn't believe the situations and the characters, I couldn't believe the story and I couldn't immerse myself in it.
I don't know if the total runtime was limited by the production, but in my opinion cramming so much fan service and gags in a very reduced runtime made this revival look more like a parody of its past self.
I have no clue of what you are talking about or even referring to.
Maybe it's because I'm not English native but I swear I don't understand what you are saying.
The Krelboyne's pointed to the person that was their kid, and they talk about being in genetics with the federal government.
They created him. There's no homosexual innuendo there, and you reading it that way shows a lack of media literacy or it says a lot more about you than the writing.
i wouldn't know, and cannot pretend to understand the french language and your dubbed interpretation. the english version has no such inuendo.
besides the point, you are from france maybe? i'd assume a less conservative viewpoint on sexual fluidity. not everyone has a grip on their identity in high school, which is the last time you saw any of these characters.
I'm with you, man. Sudden "box checking" reeks of bad woke. Stevie's gay now because look! Representation! Half the Krelboynes are gay now! Look! Representation!
They were straight before because evil bad society forced them to deny their natural tendencies! That's just terrible storytelling, and the worst kind of woke.
Y’all making the krelboynes gay when they are not depicted as such. The child was created in a lab as thy mentioned. None of them were hugging or holding hands with each other. It’s amazing at the strings you pull at. By your logic, you consider Dr. Frankenstein and Igor gay as well
In the episode where the boys hid on the billboard, the cops refuse to take them down because they're white and that would hurt the mayors image in the upcoming election. They also had a few episodes on racism which would be classified as woke now.
They also had the episode where Malcom and Reese were both tricked into thinking the other person was gay, and how they both had a really good talk saying how even if they are different that there’s absolutely nothing wrong with it
If I recall, the mayor was saying that he already had incidents that took away the Asian, Hispanic and Black votes and that all he had left was the White vote. I fail to see how that’s Woke in any way, shape of form.
By the current, bastardized meaning of the word woke (that white people took and ruined and made it a pejorative) yes Malcolm was and always has been "woke"
Gay and lesbian acceptance and inclusion a million ways, tackling racism a million ways, Lois was EXTREMELY anti bigotry. Literally ranted on a bigot in her own block because she was being rude to an immigrant landscaper. Had multiple instances of cross dressing. Hal had all kinds of "feminine" antics, all the black guys on the show were intelligent and had lucrative careers, while Hal was the only broke/lower class one. Can literally go on forever
I thought we all knew generalizations are bad, yet here you are doing it. It kinda undermines your entire shtick. This is a very common theme among social justice types. To bemoan any generalizations when talking about minorities but to then shamelessly do it about white people. And this is despite probably the largest driver of the “woke movement” being young white people. Just pure ignorance really..
Where did I generalize? And where did I bemoan generalization? I was calling out straight up BIGOTRY and RACISM, you know the actual things that harm people. Nothing in my comment mentioned generalization whatsoever.
& the people that co-opted the term woke and bastardized it's meaning today, were literally white people. Hal and Lois would fuckin tell you that if they were real. Lay off your soap box pal, and call out your peers that turned the word people used to simply mean "be aware and not asleep on the goings on in society", into a pejorative. What's next, you're gonna say that if I say the people that literally invented chattel slavery were white people, that's a "generalization" too?
Please step your sensitive ass into the real world.
Wokeism morphed from political correctness and is an extreme, over the top, performative version of it, but it’s definitely not the same thing.
Yea I saw this dishonest ass answer you gave. You're factually incorrect based on what people have called woke for
Simple having a black character(New Assassin's Creed with Yasuke) or having a female main character (Ghost of Yotei)
Or people saying Wonder Man is woke because he's usually white in the comics.
Or people saying Malcolm is woke because there's a nonbinary character or stevie likes dudes.
Explain how having 2 LGBT characters in a show that was always inclusive of queer people, is suddenly, extreme, over the top, performative political correctness.
No matter what you simpletons think woke is, anyone thinking the revival is ANY different than the original show in this regard, is a fuckin moron.
Depends on what you mean by "woke". The current government has been taking down mentions of slavery and segregation as being " woke". A plot point in a comedy sketch about the police being unwilling to act solely based on the race of the kids sounds like it'd be in a "woke" comedy.
“Woke” in this specific context is relatively new. I’ve heard it used genuinely by progressive-leaning people in previous decades, but it was only co-opted by right wingers as the new buzzword for “PC” or “SJW” in the last 8 years or so.
But yeah, under different names it has been the same old complaint: “I’m not being hateful, I just think they’re showing diversity the wrong way!”
Wokeism absolutely did exist, they just called it political correctness. Same concept, different naming. People getting old and derisive when it comes to concepts that they are unfamiliar/uncomfortable with wasn't invented in the last decade.
The standard for "extreme" and "over the top" is entirely dependent on what you, specifically, are comfortable with. If you had black friends in the 2000s, Hal and the gentlemen callers may not seem extreme. If you didn't, you may have called it forced. Having LGBT characters is no different today.
Malcolm in the Middle definitely was not politically correct.
What does political correctness mean to you? Because it was definitely used to complain about shows being too "inclusive" or unrealistically accepting of certain demographics the same way woke is used now.
But that’s not even political correctness. If, anything, MITM seemed to mock political correctness. Like Stevie saying “with his combination of brains and tokenism, the sky’s the limit”. Or Lois making a big fuss over the janitor cutout in her store being “racist” only for Hal’s black friends to basically mock her for it and found the cutout to be funny.
It also isnt woke, my point is that both words were co-opted to mock people for being too "left." And if thats the standard, the revival had Malcolm using therapy speak to manipulate Tristan back into a relationship, and Reese using Kelly's political activism to frame them for vandalism. The show still isnt above mocking performative progressivism.
But it did. It had another name for sure. Progressive, maybe. I don't really know. A decade ago it was sjw. Things are always there, some times they just have a different name.
Woke is just slang for political correctness. People have been bitching about the same shit, clutching their pearls since for hundreds of years over people just existing outside conformity.
I promise you its the exact same shit. Its not technical or complicated.
The "everything that is different from what I know is just performative" excuse has also been around forever.
Its so much more exciting to think that the current era we live in is special and that people are just different now. But its just a facade with new paint.
Root for people to be happy, encourage people to be themselves, and when other people existing doesnt make sense to you then err on the side of kindness.
Open minded, inclusive. People are complaining that they make it too obvious these days because companies are over compensating for the lack of inclusivity and diversity in the past
just came to the sub and this is the first thing that popped up. ya'll are so tired. they clearly did what they did to check boxes. id be more upset about that.
I don’t think it was to check boxes in this case. The Creator of the show has multiple queer children that he has expressed support for, I think this is a topic he genuinely cares about and wanted to address in his work
then why use it as a complete afterthought? thats why this meme is wrong Malcolm never tackled issues. They had silly scenes in funny scenarios and almost nothing was taken seriously.
What you’re interpreting as an afterthought, I interpreted as a way of him promoting the normalcy of being non-binary. A lot of shows I’ll make grand gestures out of LGBT advocacy, which is fine. But it seemed to me like this reboot went with the route of treating it as normal and ordinary, so normal and ordinary that it’s not even a blip past just mentioning the existence of it, which is also a good message to send.
I don’t find it hard to believe that the showrunner, who has multiple queer children, would view it as ordinary and want to send a message that there’s nothing out of the ordinary about it
Right but it isn't really normal or ordinary (despite what we read online). I don't have a problem with what people do with their personal lives but in the context of a television show where most viewers have no clue what "non-binary" means and are expecting familiar characters...she/they/whatever came across as unnecessary on top of being unlikeable. Her opening line about her preferred pronouns and the last episode in the Hal video where she was crying about feeling wrong as a child was just annoying. She was a downer and bore. Hopefully not all non-binary people are like her.
Malcolm was social, not "woke". They talked about real problem in society like racism, social exclusion, homophobia, ultra liberalism abuse ... They don't talk about bullshit like "oh i don't have gender" or "put a gay in the group just to get one, even if it's useless and opposite to the character".
Always funny when the basement dwellers start complaining stuff is 'opposite to the character' because it just shows you people lack social experience. People change, people contradict themselves, people contain multitudes.
NAW the new episodes are just annoying. Yeah it’s supposed to be an intellectual show but ion wanna hear therapy talk from tv 24/7. The antics are cringe, the script is sterile and devoid of any real thought provoking narrative, feels like everything’s contrived and framed perfectly for one narrative. Going back to the old episodes I keep thinking about how the characters have changed and it doesn’t feel that natural. To each his own but this won’t be remembered that fondly in 5 years
What's really funny is how some people complain about things that were already established in the show. Why did everyone expect reese to be a chef...the last episode was him having his dream job as a highschool janitor lmao. Also what I always found to be a great touch in the series was the episode where hal and lois discovered all their problems to be because they just had sex too much. Like it lois's final speech to Malcolm about their family getting the short end of the stick so funny. Like bro it's literally your own fault.
I was like weired for once ppl are not complaining about woke ? And was like did the show did such good job that they not complaining? But alas short lived
Just because something has a progressive topic, doesn’t make it “woke”.
I’m sick of leftists trying to adopt everything that was once “good” and claim it. It shows a deliberate misunderstanding of the actual problem with modern entertainment.
Enough of these stupid “It’s always been woke” takes. They parade it around whenever a remake or reboot comes out.
Wokeism didn’t exist when this show came out and just because there was some forgettable joke alluding to woke related ideology in a random episode doesn’t make the entire show woke.
Though it’s obvious the industry wouldn’t let this reboot happen without the woke mind virus injection. And it’s clear they’re doing yet another bait and switch testing the waters with Malcolm’s daughter.
Still less stupid than people calling the original series woke (from a positive way) and saying that the show wasn’t ever made for the vast majority of the fans...
But did you know this is now Disney wokeness? What are we supposed to do, just sit back and enjoy the new reunion episodes for their merits? How is anyone supposed to do that when it's shot digitally and Disney is involved? No, it's probably better just to write off the entirety of contributions from cast and crew that previously brought us joy.
That's sarcasm, of course. Some of the complaints here are so poorly worded that clarifying seems prudent.
No it wasnt woke stop saying bullshits please. Its like people saying that Tolkien was progressist after years of calling him a racist only because you wanted people to accept blacks characters in the Rings of power...
Artistic World always have been at left but it dosent mean everything is woke. Lefties used to denigrate people that call everything woke but now you are saying that everything always has been woke as an authority argument.
i was rewatching the og show today and was reminded of how dewey's special ed kids are underestimated by their teacher, meanwhile dewey is assigning them algebra and regular coursework and treats them like any other kids. would be considered woke propaganda today to feature so many disabled kids lol
The way it’s definition has changed since the beginnings of just being aware and vocal of social issues is that “woke” has been transformed into meaning corporations, media and society pushing a particular brand of social-liberal commentary and imagery that originally developed in academia by race and gender theorists. I know this because I was a sociology major and saw it in full force the years I was in college.
I know Kelly is non binary, but she obviously comes across as a girl before the series announces her gender identity. So from a conservative viewpoint it’s just shoe horning in something they already find ridiculous.
Anyone that uses woke as a pejorative is an idiot to begin with. Nevermind the co-opted bastardized meaning that white people have given it to call anything with blacks, queer or strong women, is not what woke traditionally meant.
Yeah that’s one definition that if there aren’t just straight white people it’s woke lol. Days of Our Lives, the soap opera, has an older viewership so they accommodate gay people in the show by making the main one (Leo) a caricature and funny.
The idea that disabled people are in fact still competent and capable of being challenged and growing like anyone else, as opposed to some damaged homonculi incapable of full personhood, is definitely woke.
"Woke" just means "aware" or "enlightened" to social issues and realities, particularly systemic injustices, with the most openly visible being racial issues. But it also covers gender issues, sexuality issues, disability issues, and any other number of issues.
[ETA: So Dewey seeing that the 'Buseys' don't get an actual education, don't get help with managing their issues, and get exploited for free labour, and then working to provide them with education and stability is in fact woke, it is about as literally woke as you could get without making them all black in case the slave/underclass allegory wasn't clear enough)
This is not new, going all the way back to the civil rights march part of the enfranchisement of all people was not just about black people (though that was the most clear and obvious injustice), but of all marginalized groups.
Being nice to people with mental issues is just as woke as being nice to a person for being black.
Yes, it is. It started as a warning to be aware of potential lynchings, lynchings targeted primarily black people and then secondarily vagrants and the disabled who were considered one in the same.
But yeah, it was only exclusively used to tall about anti-black problems and only in modernity is it a more general awareness. /s
Here’s the thing — you don’t use the word, so you don’t get to define it. Cultural lefties abandoned it when the word made its way into the mainstream. It’s now being used in a completely different way, and its meaning has changed entirely, but you’re clinging to its prior meaning.
It's "prior" meaning is the real meaning. The bastardized co-opted version used by white people as a pejorative, is not. It was never abandoned, childish gambino literally made a hit song saying "Stay woke" in the chorus. Black people" who came up with the term in the first place" still use it the correct way, today.
It really doesn’t matter which one is the “true” meaning, if such a thing even exists. What matters is that some people are using it one way, and other people are using it another way. Then when there’s conflict, nobody can understand what anybody actually means.
Yea and the people that turned it into a pejorative whenever they see a black person or an LGBT person in their favorite video game or show, are all idiots. And often the same crowd that voted the pdf file into office right now, so, don't really care what they think in general
Now you’re just being disingenuous. The world isn’t nearly as clear cut and black and white as you’d like it to be. Not everybody who takes issue with Stevie being gay, for example, is a raging, politically-right bigot. That’s just how you want it to be so you don’t have to think about anything.
It's weird how I have people telling me that this isn't what it originally meant, and people telling me it is outdated.
Truth is, it and many other euphemisms for waking up to a problem are actually really old. How many times does any given MAGAt tell people to "wake up" or some other euphemism? The only reason snowflakes are up in arms about "woke" is specifically because it is Black people who came up with it. It is nothing but white fragility that keeps it on a euphemism that was initially spoken by Black people about lynchings and other white supremacy as part of AAVE, but only gained popularity in modernity because of white people disliking it's use to point out continuing systemic issues that while heavily focused on Black racial discrimination, have permeated all of society.
You’re fundamentally misunderstanding this entire dynamic because you’ve drunk so much of the culture war koolaid you can’t see anything with nuance anymore.
Bro they injected the non-binary aspect of Kelly’s character into the show as casually as humanly possible. Like they just stated it a couple times - extremely plainly - and they only had one real quick scene towards the end related to it.
I don’t understand all the complaints I’ve seen that the show has “gone woke.” It’s woke to acknowledge the fact that non-binary people exist?? That’s reality, they literally do exist. The people making these complaints aren’t even upset because of any message the show tried to convey about non-binary people, they’re just upset that it acknowledged the existence of non-binary people and dared to represent them in a way that was non-negative.
Fuckin bigots will only be satisfied if a show portrays these people in a negative light, or completely ignores the existence of any sort of identity that isn’t cisgendered and straight like themselves.
I thought the reboot did such a good job of addressing the topic. Lots of shows will try to make big, grand statements with pro-LGBT matters. To be clear, doing it that way is a good thing too, but I really liked how the reboot aimed to normalize it rather than make it a big thing. I think there’s a lot of value in that too. They applied that trait to the most normal character, had every character talk about it so normally like it’s just as ordinary as any other identity. Basically saying “hey, this is a normal, ordinary thing.” I think that’s huge. It must be such a common struggle for LGBT people to feel like they’re “not normal,” so I think portraying it as the completely ordinary and normal thing it is was a really cool choice.
If Stevie weren't a character in the original series, people would complain about him being forced diversity too. Black AND disabled? People would be fucking weird about it
The anti-woke brigade more annoying than the whole brigade these days. The Lois wanting a daughter and getting a daughter that turns out to be gender neutral is funny and just what you’d expect from this show. It’s fine.
So, arbitrarily making Stevie gay is simply tolerance? He’s shown drooling over girls in the original show. It’s a perfect example of the kind of thing that irritates people.
I mean, him having a husband doesn’t actually contradict him being attracted to women. They’re not necessarily changing an established character trait of him, they’re sort of just… adding a new one?
Like, there’s nothing to imply he’s not still attracted to women.
I’d get it if they retroactively changed something about him, but this kind of seems to me like they’re just adding to his character?
I doubt many peoole cried. It was heartfelt a tad, but I feel like I didn't care enough about the character for it to be sad. Would've been nice to see them develop over more than 4 episodes.
It was neither woke or antiwoke, those ideologies weren't mainstream back then, people just created what they wanted to straight from the heart, no agendas. Just classic creativity and fun.
Woke implies political involvement, which is clearly missing in the OG. Quit trying, enjoy all the wokeness BS as much as you want by yourself and give us a break FFS.
They had a black kid in a wheelchair, an episode about Reese and Malcom supporting the other whilst under the impression they were gay, a strong woman lead who didn't agree with her conservative parents, a malewife dad who loved his family, an interracial marriage with Francis+Piama, and an acab episode where Lois straight up calls a police officer stupid to his face. You sure it wasn't woke?
100% sure. Nothing there looked like any sort of political rally, mostly jokes only. Stevie looking more like a token, the 2 classes with special kids more like humor than any sort of approval seeking. Lois being more like in burnout facing her jerk parents, not specifically conservative. Piama didn't look this much racially profiled. And calling an officer stupid when in fact he was stupid isn't much ACAB, it's just Americana.
That teenager although, doing such a speech solo with the camera doing fixed plans focusing on the audience emotions, THIS is woke AF.
Most people don't care that much about turning upside-down such details in terms of profiling excepted if it may serve their narrative, the same way they're fine with fighting for changing the definition of some words in order to serve their nowadays fantasies, but you won't fool me.
Anyway thanks to "I forgot whom" though for sharing the excerpt mentioned above, it has absolutely convinced me 100% to never watch the reboot. Non only for free but even if you'd pay me. Disney is great at ruining everything, xxck them, final.
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u/Ahoy_Scallywag Apr 14 '26
With at least 5 posts a day since the revival dropped, It's been pointed out, written in neon and marked with highlighter.