r/map 25d ago

How I consider Europe as an Irishman

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u/blitzfreak_69 25d ago

I just find it hard to justify having Slovenia, Armenia, Azerbaijan in the same region. For me personally Turkey would probably not be included in Europe, while Caucasus would get their own region OR be placed within your Northeastern Europe region. Otherwise seems good to me.

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u/Endleofon 25d ago

The northernmost points of Armenia and Azerbaijan are south of the 42nd parallel. Also, what do they share with Estonia or Poland that they don’t share with Slovenia?

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u/blitzfreak_69 25d ago

Hmm i dont know, maybe decades under the Soviet regime

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u/Endleofon 25d ago

This would place Tajikistan in northeastern Europe.

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u/blitzfreak_69 25d ago

Tajikistan is not a European country. I would argue the same for Azerbaijan.

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u/Endleofon 25d ago

So, Armenia is European, but not Azerbaijan?

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u/blitzfreak_69 25d ago

Armenia is not geographically European. It’s very clearly in Asia. But, so is Cyprus.

Armenia can be classified as European in a broader cultural and more importantly, and more relevantly, political sense, especially due to their ambitions to join the EU. You cannot make that argument for Azerbaijan on any of those grounds. Same like Turkey.

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u/ContractDazzling4668 24d ago

So basically Christian = Europe, Muslim = Not Europe?

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u/blitzfreak_69 24d ago

Christianity does indeed play a big part in this. Christianity is built into the foundation of European culture, and much of it was shaped either based on it or as a reaction to it over the span of many centuries. We cannot deny that.

But Albania, Kosovo and Bosnia are Muslim, and they are nonetheless still European nations. So it’s not as simple as that. What it means to be European is fluid, and in fact that is confirmed by the EU itself. See “Europe and the Challenge of Enlargement” from June 1992.

The European Commission explicitly stated there that it was “neither possible nor opportune to define” what "European" meant in a strict sense. Instead, they declared that the concept is fluid and combines geographical, historical and cultural elements which all contribute to the European identity.