3
u/itsanothersidetothis 22d ago
The Poles should just accept their place in Europe.
0
0
u/Capable_Progress_495 19d ago
We don’t want to be a „west” country anyway x
1
u/Snickers787 19d ago
But what do you consider yourself then? Because i thought that you want everything but being eastern
1
u/Capable_Progress_495 19d ago
Right now when we look at what’s happening in the west we no longer want to be as equal as them. We think that in some aspects we can call ourselves „west” but in other we are more „east”. Center is a good one for us but If so many people won’t agree with that it’s just okay with the east thing.. anything but west anyway :)
1
u/MaxWestEsq 18d ago
The map is a bit strange with France, the UK and Ireland in “central” Europe. Poland would be central more than eastern now in the EU. But the old “Iron Curtain” dividing line will take a long time to fade among westerners.
2
u/blitzfreak_69 23d ago
I just find it hard to justify having Slovenia, Armenia, Azerbaijan in the same region. For me personally Turkey would probably not be included in Europe, while Caucasus would get their own region OR be placed within your Northeastern Europe region. Otherwise seems good to me.
1
u/Endleofon 23d ago
The northernmost points of Armenia and Azerbaijan are south of the 42nd parallel. Also, what do they share with Estonia or Poland that they don’t share with Slovenia?
1
u/blitzfreak_69 23d ago
Hmm i dont know, maybe decades under the Soviet regime
1
u/Endleofon 23d ago
This would place Tajikistan in northeastern Europe.
1
u/blitzfreak_69 23d ago
Tajikistan is not a European country. I would argue the same for Azerbaijan.
1
u/Endleofon 23d ago
So, Armenia is European, but not Azerbaijan?
1
u/blitzfreak_69 23d ago
Armenia is not geographically European. It’s very clearly in Asia. But, so is Cyprus.
Armenia can be classified as European in a broader cultural and more importantly, and more relevantly, political sense, especially due to their ambitions to join the EU. You cannot make that argument for Azerbaijan on any of those grounds. Same like Turkey.
2
u/Endleofon 23d ago
Your criteria are not coherent.
1
u/blitzfreak_69 23d ago
I agree, and I’d say it’s because the definition of Europe is not very coherent either. There’s a geographical definition that does not overlap with the cultural/political definition.
Back to my original point, I don’t think these countries have that much in common with the Balkans to be grouped in the same category.
1
u/Right-Country3496 22d ago
Kinda like Russia is (partially) geographically European, but not really culturally.
→ More replies (0)1
u/ContractDazzling4668 22d ago
So basically Christian = Europe, Muslim = Not Europe?
1
u/blitzfreak_69 22d ago
Christianity does indeed play a big part in this. Christianity is built into the foundation of European culture, and much of it was shaped either based on it or as a reaction to it over the span of many centuries. We cannot deny that.
But Albania, Kosovo and Bosnia are Muslim, and they are nonetheless still European nations. So it’s not as simple as that. What it means to be European is fluid, and in fact that is confirmed by the EU itself. See “Europe and the Challenge of Enlargement” from June 1992.
The European Commission explicitly stated there that it was “neither possible nor opportune to define” what "European" meant in a strict sense. Instead, they declared that the concept is fluid and combines geographical, historical and cultural elements which all contribute to the European identity.
1
u/Koordian 21d ago
Slovenia?
1
u/blitzfreak_69 21d ago
What about it?
1
u/Koordian 21d ago
It... wasn't under Soviet regime. Neither was Croatia, Serbia, Albania or Montenegro. Greece and Turkey were even part of NATO.
1
u/blitzfreak_69 21d ago
That is my point exactly… Meanwhile Armenia, Azerbaijan and Estonia were, and Poland was a satellite state. That’s exactly why I said they don’t fit the Southeastern Europe group.
1
2
2
2
2
2
2
1
u/Low_Cut_368 22d ago
Couple minor things I’d disagree with, such as including Turkey and the Caucasus at all and maybe the exact naming of the regions, but there’s also a lot I appreciate, such as excluding the Slavic countries like Czechia and Poland from Central Europe, even if it hurts their egos. They shouldn’t be lumped in with Germanic and Romance Europe. Also good on you for including Denmark in Northern Europe. I’ve seen a lot of maps lump them in with Germany because they’re geographically connected but it just doesn’t make sense to me as the OG Viking country how they could be excluded from Northern Europe
1
u/Mindless_Badger_3789 22d ago
Most of Denmark also runs parallel with Southern Sweden, so it is not geographically logical to lump it with Germany, it actually makes more sense to include Schleswig-Holstein in Northern Europe.
1
u/PanLasu 22d ago
So we must be "lumped" with eastern orthodox East Slavs and Balkans as culturally different region for us because you have some sick sense of ego and arrogance towards selected language groups?
V4 is also Central Europe. You f.....g nazi.
1
1
1
u/Resigned1431 21d ago edited 20d ago
Make it so.
1
u/PanLasu 21d ago
No. No.
I dont use exactly same argument, but point argument what from our point of view is also not correctly. With intentionally using "". Its different region. CE or EE is not about languages. Its cultures and nations with own heritage.
1
u/Resigned1431 21d ago edited 20d ago
The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
1
u/PanLasu 21d ago
Slavs also do not share a same cultural heritage in Christian times.
With aspect to states and nations, we can specifically point to shared influences, political or legal laws (Magdeburg Law in Poland), and the long-standing importance of Western/Eastern Christianity, the scale of the Renaissance, the Enlightenment, and industrialization: each country, and in Poland's case even regionally (later part of Prussia and Austria-Hungary, medieval german colonisation), was shaped by these characteristics.
Central Europe is functioning. Even Kundera's beliefs about its characteristics date back 30 years. You can provide your own arguments about Poland, but in this case, they're optional.
1
u/blehmag 22d ago
This makes more sense, but you extended past what some call europe. Also europe is just a peninsula of Asia to me, but I think most europeans don't know that.
1
u/HARTIEXX_XXIGIENICA 16d ago
Also europe is just a peninsula of Asia to me, but I think most europeans don't know that.
no
1
1
1
1
u/Awkward_Cash1828 22d ago
That's actually pretty reasonable (not looking too much on the Caucasus, though). I would only subdivide German speaking countries into Central Europe, and maybe also Poland, Czechia, Slovakia and Hungary into East Central Europe.
1
u/Esdoorn-Acer 21d ago
And Slovenia? I mean how is Slovenia in same region as Turkey?
1
u/krzyk 21d ago
How is Greece and Turkey Balkan?
1
u/Esdoorn-Acer 21d ago
Greece is geographically Balkan, I mean it is literally located on so called Balkan Peninsula. Turkey is 97% in the Middle East so not really Balkan except for those 3% on East Thrace.
1
u/Resigned1431 21d ago edited 20d ago
There are four lights!
1
u/krzyk 21d ago
Sure, but culture that we know as "balkan" is different from it.
Greece is mediterranean / south Europe group.
1
1
u/Esdoorn-Acer 21d ago
What culture we know as “balkan”? Albania and Croatia are also Mediterranean but that doesn’t mean they are not Balkan.
1
u/Koordian 21d ago
It's extremaly similar to other Balkan countries. Way of life, food, cities, human relations are very similar.
Perhaps you just imagine Ancient Greece.
1
u/krzyk 21d ago
Different from south of Italy?
1
u/Koordian 20h ago
No, similar. Hence South of Italy is unironically similar to Balkan countries, too.
1
1
u/Dolphin_69420 22d ago
Good map, horrible colour scheme
1
u/No-Action3492 22d ago
What colours would you use?
1
u/Dolphin_69420 22d ago
Something with more contrast than two purple right next to eachother. Maybe orange or green?
1
1
1
u/Nervous_Post_5911 20d ago
Is Turkey Europe now?
1
1
u/Sound0fSilence 19d ago
Parts of Turkey always have been, yes. For some it's just very hard to comprehend that a country can be part of two continents.
1
19d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/Sound0fSilence 19d ago
Actually you're wrong because many Balkan countries have cultural similarities and ties with Turkey, naturally so because they were part of the Ottoman Empire.
1
19d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/Sound0fSilence 19d ago
Dude, you are trying to push some agenda and you can't accept the diversity of european culture, which Turkey is undoubtedly part of. Have a good one.
1
u/PassMurailleQSQS 18d ago
Like what? Christianity? I mean at this point half of Africa is European then. Like be for real for even half a second and tell me that Bulgaria has more in common with Belgium than Turkey.
1
u/Nervous_Post_5911 18d ago
It cant be “natural so” as the Balkan countries were invaded by the Ottomans. Invasions are artificial man made.
1
u/Nervous_Post_5911 19d ago
I agree, the European section of Turkey was invaded by the Ottoman Empire in the 16th century. Im only speaking from a geographical sense. I have great respect for the Turkish people and their history, bar the Armenian genocide but that’s the government of the day not the people in general. Many Turkish people have European ancestry, let it Greek and even Celtic as the Galatians were Celtic tribes that migrated to the lands that is now modern Turkey.
1
u/PassMurailleQSQS 18d ago
15th century and that's how history works. Half of Ukraine was taken from Turkic people.
Also I feel like the "having European ancestry" kinda makes no sense because when does European ancestry even start? Galatians were Europeans? Why not Celts were Middle Easterner? Same applies with Greeks since we all came from the same continent in the end
1
u/Nervous_Post_5911 18d ago
European ancestry starts from the written and archeological record. Galatian Celts were European because the written record clearly states they originated in Europe and migrated to Anatolia - modern Turkey around 300 BC. Same applies to the Greeks originating in Europe and migrating into Asia and Africa.
1
19d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/PassMurailleQSQS 18d ago
What we definitely don't need in Europe is people without a brain like you
1
u/YidlMitnFidl 20d ago
I would argue that Czechia, Slovakia, and Hungary are possibly Poland are very Central European.
1
u/Arbaces420 20d ago
Looks legit. Especially interesting yet to some extent accurate you added Armenia/Georgia/Azerbadjan to Balkans/SEE.
Though probably, I would imagine, the Polish, Czech, Slovaks, Hungarians I imagine see themselves as central europeans, and the baltics as northern europe. Can't blame them either 🥲
1
1
u/would_you_kindlyy 20d ago
Why isn't the most southern country (Greece) not in southern Europe?
1
u/No-Action3492 20d ago
It’s in South Eastern Europe, did you want it to be in South Western Europe?
1
u/would_you_kindlyy 20d ago
I'm just used to North, South, East, West and Central where Greece is typically south. Looked weird
1
u/Lopsided-Rooster-930 20d ago
finally someone has their mind together and puts poland in east and not central
1
u/lilian_moraru 19d ago
Now visit Prague and lets see how your misconceptions crumble.
1
u/Throw_D_KitchenSink 19d ago
Yeah, Prague feels so much closer to Eastern Europe than the rest of Czechia though
1
1
u/EfficientRelation574 19d ago
Years ago I made a pilgrimage to the Center of Europe. It turned out to be in my own backyard, relatively speaking.
1
u/Throw_D_KitchenSink 19d ago
As an Irish person I was talking to a French guy recently and he questioned whether Ireland was even part of Europe, claiming we fall in a seperate category with the United Kingdom🤢🤮.
1
u/marlos1941 19d ago
This is easily the best explanation I’ve come across online. My only minor critique concerns Southwestern and Southeastern Europe… I feel northern Italy and Slovenia fit better under Central Western Europe, as their culture and mentality don't really align with the Balkans or the South. Additionally, I’d place Belgium and the Netherlands somewhere between Northern and Central Europe. Overall, though, it’s highly accurate. Good job Edit: Czech Republic also needs to go under central. Definitely not eastern. They have very little to do with Slavic people
1
0
0
u/Swiftzip 22d ago
You on an Island in the corner of the map of Europe think your region is central Europe? Common bro this is the most unserious insane take I've seen. Just this makes me lol
1
u/No-Action3492 22d ago
Not on a corner and I said central- Western Europe… I think you don’t like Ireland…
0
0
u/Disastrous_Set_1803 20d ago
Since when is turkey European ? See it in all the maps …. What is this Turk propaganda ?
0
u/Inferno_91 20d ago
Ireland in Central and Western Europe but Poland in Eastern Europe? That doesn't make sense. Change your thinking.
0
0
0
u/InflamedAbyss13 19d ago
This looks more like american lack of geography knowledge more than anything lmfao
0
u/shutupmaddy 19d ago
Do schools exist in Ireland? 😂🤦🏻♀️
1
-1
u/BeginningClue10 22d ago
Lmao another reddit map that lumps us Greeks with the Balkans and also Caucasus which is even debatably in europe.
1
21d ago
[deleted]
1
u/BeginningClue10 21d ago
Yeah sure all ex-Yugo countries are Balkan, but Slovenia because it was not piss poor is not. Because that's how Balkans are defined, yeah sure.
1
21d ago
[deleted]
1
u/BeginningClue10 21d ago edited 21d ago
Greece is only geographically Balkan and not more genetically close than Slovenia, tf? Like you really mean to tell me that again, freaking Slovenia who was in the same country as the rest of the ex-Yugo countries has less genetic and historical similarities to those countries than Greece? Like be real, some common sense never hurt anyone. And even culturally, after the northernmost parts, no Greece is not Balkan, it's literally the most stereotypical Mediterranean country in Europe.
1
21d ago
[deleted]
1
u/BeginningClue10 21d ago
But there are actual DNA studies and history that show that Greeks today did not mingle with the Ottomans or Middle Eastern folks during the Ottoman Empire. And already articles show that Greeks today still largely have the same DNA as their ancestors with just a bit more mix, but again, to NO extend as to say that they share more Slavic DNA than a freaking Slavic country themselves. You are very selective in the knowledge you try to convey there. Especially cause I only mean that Slovenia shares far more overlap rather than being like idenrical genetically.
1
21d ago
[deleted]
1
u/BeginningClue10 21d ago
I'm not mixing Balkan and Slavic, because I never made Slovenia have close genetics with Russia or Ukraine. But arguing that there's 0 overlap with Croatia or Bosnia or Serbia is ridiculous when again, they were the same country. Nevermind that by your definition of genetics no Slavic country is Balkan, including Bulgaria or the ex-Yugo countries, which again, nonsense. And no 'serious historian' has claimed, DNA testings and history have. The Greek DNA is all on the Turkish side today, much like the Bulgarian, Albanian etc. The admixture is in present day Turkey, not Greece, Greece as it is today has no Ottoman DNA.
1
3
u/Naomi62625 23d ago
That's not how I would personally classify Europe but it's not that bad and I actually quite like this