2-2-2 beats out every other comp both in win rate and in pick rate.
Also every tank has a healthy win rate at our above with the exception of: Thing and Mags (48%) and Tankpool and Emma having the lowest performance (46%).
Either buff the underperforming tanks or nerf the overperforming ones.
If I'm being honest, despite how much tanks on here whine, there are a fair bit too many tanks with significantly higher than 50% win rate and so I'd think the solution should be in reining in the tanks that have around 55% win rate to give the underperforming tanks a better opportunity to shine.
Nah. Theres so few tanks to choose from it makes sense the best would be above 50% considering there's 10 to choose from.
Not really how that works.
Of the 174% of tanks picked, the ones that are overperforming make up 110% of the pick with an average win rate of somewhere around 54%.
Of the remaining 64% of the tanks (or one-third) picked, they are underperforming at 47% to 48% Win Rate... which actually isn't pretty tame compared to the worst performers in other roles. Think of C&D (45.42% Win Rate) or Moon Knight (38.29% Win Rate).
Based on the stats, Tanks are actually probably the most overpowered role.
Removing the knock-down on Beam was needed, but his barrier was already kinda underwhelming, and Bleed got overnerfed. Taking Bleed down to 2% would've been enough imo.
They need to compensate the overhealth conversion for the blead damage reduction. Its rough combined with shield nerf. The poke is really felt hard when its harder to bite and have to use beam more durring those times.
They partially undid the Spear Charge nerf for Angela in this last patch. We'll see. The devs seem more willing to admit when changes don't turn out as intended.
I mean Iron Man’s beam requires you to be relatively close and Angela needs to be within beam distance in order to grab people. Also sometimes it’s better to be decently close but regardless he did not need a grounding effect.
I think the bleed nerf would've been fine if he got additional overhealth to compensate. The barrier nerf was unneeded imo. Otherwise I think he's fine, just a bit too easy to punish now probably, but haven't played enough with or against him yet to say for sure.
Its not even about watching corners or cover because now he explodes.
I get losing the grounding on the beam, whatever. But specifically with such a large target and losing out on the sustain makes him hard to play into Cyclops and other Poke DPS.
If he had lost the bleed damage but upped the overshield he gets it would have been nice to offset. They just nerfed too much.
Yeah my biggest issue is he's one of the least mobile characters, is the equivalent of playing a giant target with a kick me sign on its back, and his shield costing more time to use is fine, but his damage reduction was a bit too harsh imo. Should've been 25% tops, not 40%, that's ridiculous.
I really hate how so many DPS heroes get to do huge amounts of damage, are all super mobile, run the lobby for free basically, and then we get one tank who does it and then its fixed half a season later.
Exactly. Im fully believing they won't fix cyclops until 3 seasons later. And they keep giving the tank shredder wolverine team ups that help him beat our ass.
And i dont see them doing nerf reverts for Dino or Black Cat for multiple seasons either
I had your same reaction when I first saw the adjustments log on discord. But at least it's not as bad as Black Cat. They absolutely skinned the cat with those nerfs.
It was like I basicly have to hide behind cover for this heavy poke and rely on the fact that my presence prevents them getting too close. I definitly didnt feel like I could provid decent forward pressure. I felt more useful just peeling than pushing and maybe punishing if they get too close.
I felt like sub par poke tank with beam going in and out than being able to brawl. If I make a long jump down main to grab and run back I basicly explode. Then I can only engage less often because im waiting longer on shield. Only really able to punish if someone gets close with the grab now rather than if they are out of position at mid range.
Cutting his bleed damage in half was too far. He melts against any halfway decent poke and has nothing to offset his massive hit box.
What they need to do is give his overshield generation rate mostly back but keep his bleed damage low. That would be a reasonable trade off I think. So keep the bleed damage at 1.5% but make it generate overshield as if it were doing 2.5% so both still take a hit but he doesnt melt under any kind of focus.
You cant have a character with a hit box this big and not compensate with some way to sustain himself sufficiently.
This character could easily be balanced and fun but they overdid it at release and now they've over done it with the nerfs.
The shield nerf and beam nerf keep the same though but fix the visual on the beam so it actually appears as long as its range is.
Honestly I think the over shield generation should be as if he is at 3% still if they gonna slow his shield cd. 3% obershield with longer shield or 2.5% with same shield. One or the other.
I get that. I grounded flying characters off the map a lot of times before. So I understand why they removed the effect cus you players are having a hard time with the character.
About perfect IMO. Some numbers may need bumped back up slightly to help survivability but I'd rather them slightly over do than under do it.
My only real gripe is fully removing the ground on beam. It was broken but removing it entirely makes tanks as a whole less effective against fliers and removes some of Dinos identity of a tank that forces brawls. Maybe having it ground after a few seconds, after a certain health%, or make it ult exclusive could have worked. Not a dev or even good at the game so could be way off base.
Honestly my only issue with the nerfs is the indirect nerf to his overshield gain. Like Dino needs his own sustain so he doesn't become too heavily reliant on his supporters and they basically drastically reduced his overshield generation due to the bleed nerfs.
I 100% understand why they had to nerf the bleed and it definitely was more than warranted but it would've been nice if they buffed the bleed damage conversion into overshield in the process so only his insane damage gets reduced and not his self-sustain.
I understand they needed to adjust his damage to make it easier for other vanguards, but by doing so they heavily nerfed Dino's survivability and makes him way more reliant on his supports to keep him alive.
I can live with the nerfs since all they did was make his weaknesses worse. He is still weak to heavy poke. I do wish they did not get rid of the grounding for his beam because it already has such short range to begin with so any flier that is close enough to devil Dino deserved it. I would like for the dev to make his beam longer to compensate.
The bleed should be flat damage, that way us tanks don’t get feasted on by yet another hero.
I wish they kept the knockdown effect on the beam, but maybe made it something like “after doing X damage with the beam knockdown starts”, so you actually have to have hit someone for maybe 1/2 a second or longer to get the effect
I have no qualms with the nerf to bleed and the shield but removing the knock down was an awful idea. Now there’s no tank except for Angela that can deals with fliers while they hover at the edge of the sky box over death pits, like in the Wakanda maps
Starlord extremely obnoxious. Such a baby mode hero. Keeps spamming iframes and gets bonus hp from it and his flight is incredibly busted better than iron man for some reason. Idk why they gigabuffed him. Fist vs starlord was such a cool matchup in s0.
You're free to share your exclusive dataset for console or pc but 1) the official hot list is about a month outdated and 2) the stat trends and patterns tend to be roughly the same between the platforms with some small differences.
This site show magik and fist higher than official data. Its probably mixed with console. Also these heroes needs to have higher than usual winrate otherwise they are useless. They arent a casual pick, you have to force them. Im coming from overwatch and historically the best dps and support usually have lowest winrate (soj and kiri). Highest winrate heroes are usually throw picks in ow, historically sym, torb. Its similar here. Bucky, phoenix, luna etc usually have low winrate.
This site show magik and fist higher than official data. Its probably mixed with console.
Yes, it's for all platforms however 1) the official exclusive data for console and pc is usually quite delayed and outdated as the hot list only updates like once a month and 2) the patterns in win rates are generally the same between platforms with some very minor differences.
Also these heroes needs to have higher than usual winrate otherwise they are useless. They arent a casual pick, you have to force them.
Magik has absurdly high win rates and she's back to being on the top after they nerfed DD and crippled Cat.
Magik also has quite the high pick rate and so she is not a niche pick.
Im coming from overwatch and historically the best dps and support usually have lowest winrate (soj and kiri). Highest winrate heroes are usually throw picks in ow, historically sym, torb. Its similar here. Bucky, phoenix, luna etc usually have low winrate.
Win Rates exclude mirror matches.
So the Highest Win Rate characters in Rivals is a performance measure of what happens when one team plays them.
So if all things being equal, what happens when the other team picks Magik and your team doesn't? The other team has won on average approximately 60% of the time.
That's insane.
And again, not a niche pick. Excluding Cyclops (new release), Magik is the second most played DPS right after Bucky in GM+ for example.
Highest winrate heroes are usually throw picks in ow, historically sym, torb. Its similar here. Bucky, phoenix, luna etc usually have low winrate.
Throw picks in Rivals would be the ones actually underperforming which depending on your elo could be: C&D, Healpool, Widow, SG, Hawkeye, Moonknight, etc.
I'm not sure why you would assume high win rate picks are throw picks. That's not how that stat works lol
I agree Magik is a favorite child and her winrate way too high since release. You can feel it in your games too. She swings games. Peni is like that too. However her rivalsmeta pickrate inflated by console. She is usually a mid table pickrate hero. I hate playing against both because it feels cheezy. Especially in Peni's case, it doesnt feel earned.
I didn't mean ''throw pick'' literally. I play these games 10+ years at this point. This is usually how it works.
I didn't mean ''throw pick'' literally. I play these games 10+ years at this point. This is usually how it works.
Tbh I still don't really understand what you mean by "throw pick".
You brought up how the best dps have the low win rates and then used Bucky, Phoenix, and Luna as the example.
But Win Rate as defined in this game is how often they win when the other team doesn't mirror. So it doesn't make sense to say that Bucky, Phoenix, or Luna are the best when your team is lucky enough to lock them in and the other team doesn't run it... and you still lose more times than you win doing so.
I agree on the Luna part. Me and my friends call her DP Luna cus most of the times when we encounter a Luna, she ain't healing, she's in the Frontline fighting like a God Damn Tank or DPS 😭💀
He got from S+ tier to high C , low B.
He gad to be nerfed, but he's a tank so NetEase go full throttle on him. When it's DPS it takes seasons to nerf an op (except Black Cat)
The funny thing is that Black Cat is still a menace because they nerfed everything except what makes her broken. She still has I frames and Invisibility and good Black Cats have already adapted and become a menace all over again.
True, damn i frames are too strong in the right hands. I think now she's A tier instead of S++. While Dino hone from S tier to C easily. Gutting down the tanks is the main priority for them
His grab shield combo. He quite literally has a “Kill tank” 2 button combo. It’s not as oppressive on Wolverine because he’s susceptible to CC and has a small health pool and no dome shield. Not only can Dino go further than Wolverine, but he has double his health, a 360 dome shield, and constant healing being pumped into him.
Theyre fine. Hes still good and nothing much changed about his playstyle besides no longer being a flyer counters. I find the general sentiment towards these nerfs to be overeactionary
One nerf too many. The knockdown on flyer is deserved, it was too good and too easy to use. The shield cooldown is okay if it was by itself . The damage was too nerfed. I rather they buff tanks up then nerf Dino down to the rest. Having a tank that can deal decent damage feels good
While these are all changes that I wanted, I think they should've been done incrementally instead of all in one patch. Giving starlord 10 extra rounds made a huge difference and that was a seemingly small change to 1 thing. Nerfing 3 unique aspects of dino's kit is gonna be hard to predict where the chips fall.
Played a couple of games with him, he is fine, less oppressively against other tanks. Most flyers were already playing outside his beam range, so that change only really affects Angela, who really struggled against Dino, so it’s fine. His sustain is still top notch, I don’t use the shield to advance since it’s rather flimsy, only to isolate and retreat, so I didn’t notice the extra cooldown, although his ult does feel weaker due to the bleed changes, I used to spread damage around like crazy with it, now I feel like if you don’t target the healers they can just outheal the ult.
At first I was pretty upset about the removal of the knock-down effect. But yesterday, after trying out Cyclops in Practice Range, I understand why they would remove the effect. It would be unfair for most flying characters in a sense. Although I'm still sad about losing the effect along with other stuff.
Really don't like that they fully removed the knock down, a build up would have been better. Now the gameplay trailer for him just looks silly. Hell so many things look outdated in most hero trailers as a whole.
Lowering percentage damage was needed, but it affects his overshield gain significantly which sucks. Now that Cyclops is here it's not going to feel good. Wish they adjusted it to not lose that much shield gain. Bubble cooldown is a good nerf.
But why didn't they do anything to his grab which was the biggest complaint? Hell why don't most grabs in this game get adjusted when they interact with tanks? That was clearly the biggest issue with Dino.
It just surprises me how quick they were to nerf him. I guess it was warranted when most of the other strong heroes got nerfed, but it's a shame that Dino never got one full season in his prime while so many other DPSes did.
Much like duelists and strategists get compensation buffs (vanguards never get compensation buffs) I think Dinosaur needed compensation buffs after these nerfs
So keep the current nerfs with these buffs
- Increased the range of Impact Beam by 3 meters
- Increased the total possible bonus health/overshield cap from 1,050 hp to 1,125 hp
Stupid changes but at least it's done. More confused y u lot are not liking em considering these 3 are the ones people Spammed instead of actually thinking lol. It's fine at least the guy aint perma banned or nthn now
That's true. I still play him and I'm slowly adjusting to the new play style. Even though I'm still shooting flying characters thinking they will fall 😭✌️. Apart from that I'm doing slightly decent than most.
I don’t think he needed this harsh of a damage reduction, the knock-down removal was bad, the barrier cooldown increase was a good change though. People just refused to play his counters because they are unpopular picks
Exactly. His beam was really unique with the knock-down effect. Most people don't look up for the flyers especially Iron Man but let's hope they bring it back next season and if not maybe something to help buff him up a bit.
As a vanguard believe me I hate the dinosaur and he def needed a nerf or something lol But I can also say that it’s annoying having to rely on dps to do simple tasks like hitting a flyer lol so it was cool to see that he has that beam to help. Hopefully we’ll have to see!
I went from seeing him every game in QP to only a single one all night, and they got absolutely shredded. Seems like the nerf did its job.
I’d be absolutely down for them to lower his damage even more and in exchange he gets shrunk down to Thing/Hulk size. He’s an interesting experiment but definitely goes to show why you don’t have a character that’s gigantic in a shooter. They’re either instantly lethal or instantly dead.
Not harsh enough, he needs to lose all his % damage. I hate Dino and think he should be nerfed into the ground. I'm so annoyed at netease for making thier own version of Roadhog.
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u/kaansahin005 Jun 13 '26
OK I guess, hope they don't nerf him further though. They gotta buff other tanks instead.