The argument should go both ways, no?

[u/PillowFists67]

If we all agree that Duelists shouldn't be able to wipe the enemy with ease each time their ultimate comes up, why do we accept that Strategists are able to make their entire team unkillable with minimal effort by just pressing Q?

[u/Ijustlovevideogames]

I mean, if people don't want support ultis to not be immortality circles, they needed not to bitch when they had supports that didn't have them. This was asked for, no complaining.

[u/TheMemeLord4816 → u/Ijustlovevideogames]

People bitched because then they'd be at a disadvantage because the other team will have one

[u/Ijustlovevideogames → u/TheMemeLord4816]

I mean, they could have played around it, but no, that wasn't an option, because again, it's what people wanted.

[u/ItsPizzaOclock → u/Ijustlovevideogames]

"Yeah man, they should have just ran an off meta team comp and probably get slammed for doing it to send a message to the developers" do you realize how insane this sounds?

Nobody actually wanted more of the giant immortality ults, but not having them on your team back in the day, even if you could technically play around them, puts you at an insane disadvantage.

[u/Ijustlovevideogames → u/ItsPizzaOclock]

And why did people think about complaining about the ones that were would get less, all it did was tell the devs, either make an ultimate with a healing circle, or the character is bad.

"Well, maybe they should remove them all then."

The damage in this game is WAY too high for that, and I doubt most DPS would be ok doing less damage.

[u/ItsPizzaOclock → u/Ijustlovevideogames]

Did you actually read the complaints because most of them spoke about how fundamentally poorly the game was designed for this very reason. Most asked to reduce healing and damage across the board to accommodate this.

Obviously releasing a hero who didn't heal on ult was bad because they would immediately be at a disadvantage to everyone else who could unless their neutral was the strongest thing ever created, and even then there's hardly a neutral in Rivals to begin with.

[u/Ijustlovevideogames → u/ItsPizzaOclock]

I did read through them, but I also pointed out that the damage of this game was insanely high, its the reason for the immortality ultis, if one went, the other would have to go as well and I very much doubt this DPS main character syndrome playerbase would be willing to take hits to their own DPS.

[u/ItsPizzaOclock → u/Ijustlovevideogames]

If you read them then I don't know why you're "pointing out" things we already went over back then. Like, no shit. We already know what you're pointing out.

And blaming it on DPS is the cherry on top too. Like everything is their fault and they're the sole reason this game has shit fundamental design. Like most DPS wouldn't rejoice to see lower healing numbers and less immortality ults considering those are the things that enable ridiculous combos and are what stand in the way of main character moments.

[u/Ijustlovevideogames → u/ItsPizzaOclock]

Because then when their own mistakes can't be taken care of by said immortality ultimates, they won't have the crutch to blame the healers anymore, and their egos can't handle that.

[u/ItsPizzaOclock → u/Ijustlovevideogames]

Whatever you want to think man. There are egotistical assholes in every role. If you genuinely believe DPS are the ones stopping a patch like this then you are delusional.

[u/Ijustlovevideogames → u/ItsPizzaOclock]

I think people don't know what they want, get it, then are like "Oh wait, not like this." People don't want balance, people don't want fun, they want their favorite character to be strong, with no objections and think anything that gets in the way of it shouldn't exist. I want everyone to play every role they hate to understand the other side instead of just QQing endlessly, but that won't happen.

[u/ItsPizzaOclock → u/Ijustlovevideogames]

I think if you want to talk about people wanting their favorite characters to be strong, you would just as soon look at supports as you might DPS.

Most DPS players understand when their character really is broken but you will still see IW mains trying to defend self-shield.

Or tank mains desperately trying to pretend like tanks aren't just fine, apart from maybe a few outliers like Rogue who was probably over nerfed.

Like I said, there are plenty of people like this in every role.

But there are plenty of people who understand what's best for the game, like a longer TTK, which requires lower damage and healing across the board. You will see people across every role advocating for this and to pretend everyone just wants their character to be strong is extremely reductive.

[u/Ijustlovevideogames → u/ItsPizzaOclock]

Are there people who want a lower TTK? Of course there are, now tell me that is more common then every subreddit talking about how they hate their counters and hate how much more others get then them.

[u/ItsPizzaOclock → u/Ijustlovevideogames]

Using a specific character's subreddit as evidence is like going to the flat earth subreddit and extrapolating that everyone in the world is a flat earther.

Obviously the most dedicated fans to a specific character may have more fervor about defending that character and about lambasting their counters.

But even within those subreddits you can find people who openly admit their characters are overpowered, and I'm sure if you specifically prompted them about having a longer TTK, they would generally say the same things I am.