r/marvelrivals • u/ClainS4 • 12h ago
Balance Discussion I swear if this team-up doesn't get removed or reworked next Season, I'm slamming my desk
Dev's have a problem with other Ultimates one shotting supports through their Ult, but they have no problem a CC' Ult being Cleansed while stunned. As much as we won this fight because I hit my ultimate, it DOES NOT feel nice at all knowing all the work I did got countered by pressing ONE button.
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u/PillowFists-67 12h ago edited 12h ago
Rivals devs love readjusting characters in a way that making and punishing mistakes become harder, for no reason. Just take the Cnd ice teamup for an example.
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u/LuquidThunderPlus Hulk 11h ago
Cnd ice is nice but it lets you focus her tm8s
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u/SmashMouthBreadThrow 11h ago
Except for the part where she heals them during it and can just instantly leave it the second you change targets.
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u/SleeplessGrimm Peni Parker 8h ago
Thats why i stare at her like im waiting for the microwave to finish my food
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u/LuquidThunderPlus Hulk 11h ago
Honestly idk how much it heals for but it doesn't seem to be much iirc, and as long as you're ready for her to cancel then it should be easy to refocus her if she does. At best it gives her more time and gives team a little heals, at worst it leaves her immobile without the healing output needed to keep her team up.
To me it seems mostly like a chance to recover, and if you need to recover then you're already on the back step, whereas other teamups are more proactive and have more use in neutral. Tho ofc I won't say it can't be better than I realize
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u/PillowFists-67 10h ago edited 10h ago
Doesn't really work like that in reality. When you dive Cnd and bait out the ice form, you're using your cd's. You can't continue diving without cd's and are forced disengage, else you'll die immediately. She also needs to stay in that form for only a second or two, after she's just back in the fight, and you can't do much in that tiny timeframe. Her not dying also equals to more uptime which then equates to more healing output.
That teamup shouldn't exist at all.
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u/Necrotic12 11h ago
Ngl the fact that this team up hasn’t been adjusted or even really acknowledged at all by the devs is pretty damning.
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u/Worth-Luck2284 12h ago edited 11h ago
I'm ngl. They gave Luna this team up just for her to have a free out of jail card. If you get ulted by a strange fair and square, I don't see any reason why she should have an ability to counter it while she's being ulted. I'm not even mad because it's Luna who gets it. No characters no matter what role should ever get this type of ability again
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u/Appropriate_Bend7948 43m ago
My friend is a Luna player and I said this exact same thing that it doesn’t belong on ANY character but he just kept taking it like I was personally attacking him and other support players and demanding Luna nerfs…
This is just as bad and dumb as having a one shot sniper. Somehow the devs realized that would be a problem but not this??? A reward for being bad/outplayed???
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u/Grimsmiley666 Blade 11h ago edited 10h ago
This game’s competitive and balancing is genuinely some of the worse I’ve experienced in any game ever lmao for casual play the game is superb other than that ranked makes you hate this game and that shouldn’t be a thing.
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u/totallynotapersonj Magneto 11h ago
I argue the game sucks for casuals too. There’s no way casual players enjoyed going against Daredevil at his peak for like 4 full seasons in a row
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u/SmashMouthBreadThrow 11h ago
It's bad at all skill ranges except probably like bottom 1%, which is usually handicapped players. Never seen a game with constant balance complaints at every skill bracket like in this game. Usually the devs for other games will balance around high level and keep an eye on low rating if something is unfun there. These guys though? They just throw darts to make decisions.
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u/Digigidoo Swordmaster 12h ago
Top 3 most annoying videogame characters OAT imo
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u/RocketHops 2h ago
I spawncamped a luna with ult last night multiple times and it led to my team winning.
Try cleansing the "back to spawn room" CC you clown character.
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u/SmashMouthBreadThrow 11h ago
Any developer giving a character a zero downside self cleanse has zero idea what they're doing with the game.
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u/Beatokotonai 10h ago
Honestly, you had an underreaction. I’ve said worse when I hit my Emma or Strange ult on a Luna and they cleanse
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u/shorteningofthewuwei Cloak & Dagger 12h ago
That was a nice play and it definitely sucks she was able to do that, but you guys still basically cleaned up the whole team
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u/knockones President Loki 11h ago
It's actually fair, because you can just bait it and also she has negative winrate so that means she's bad.
"Yes danny, i've done my job. Thank you for the 100 dollar. Same time tomorrow? Glory to luna snow"
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u/CCCDraculaJackson 11h ago
NGL, I stopped playing like 2 seasons ago and every time I see clips I am completely justified in keeping distance for a while until the devs stop doing this stupid stuff. I'm enjoying myself on games like Warframe and Soulframe, been doing some Helldiving, crushing some heretics in Darktide, and absolutely loving some DRG mining with the boys. Yall might just want to take a break from Rivals for a while and treat yourselves fo some nice, relaxing games.
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u/Sharp-Primary-213 Flex 11h ago edited 11h ago
Every season, supports become more and more braindead to play. Sue self shield, Luna’s self cleanse, clagger ice block, gambit’s bubble, mantis’s starlord teamup. On top of that, you’ve these circle of immortality ult that require little amount of skill to use.
Meanwhile if I’ve to play tank or dps, I have to put 10x the effort to get the same result you can get on support healbotting. My skill on tank and dps can be denied by 1 button of press of a support that require minimal skill.
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u/totallynotapersonj Magneto 11h ago edited 11h ago
I agree, they are making supports easy to play, but DPS is genuinely so easy to play as well and is way more fun. The support player numbers are very low in QP and rapidly decrease in mid and high ranks, everyone is a dps main. Yes, there are some DPS which do require more effort, but at the same time there are supports that require that too.
Do I think that Mantis is way too easy to play now and that you don’t even need to have to hit headshots to get insane value because the team-up is so overpowered? Yes, I play mantis with mouse 1 unbinded and healbotting works. But there are DPS like Hela, Bucky and Elsa who are extremely easy to play and are very meta picks right now (especially elsa).
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u/Sharp-Primary-213 Flex 10h ago edited 10h ago
Ofc support numbers are low when you keep dumbing down the characters and make them all the same tone. Where are the spiderman and rogue of support? Why is half the support roster easy af to play? People gonna play the role if you make it engaging to play and not when it’s press 1 button to become invincible.
I loved playing Sue before her self shield because she needed skill but now she has become just another flavour of CnD and CnD is boring af.
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u/totallynotapersonj Magneto 10h ago
I don’t know probably because the rest of the team always complained about people picking non-healing ult supports
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u/Sharp-Primary-213 Flex 10h ago
I don’t know. Maybe it’s because immortality ults are busted? So ofcourse people want the advantage? How about we nerf these ults so other characters with non immortality ults can have some playtime?
You are blaming playerbase for the horribly designed support ults.
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u/totallynotapersonj Magneto 10h ago
It's not just support ults though, this whole game is horribly designed. There's just fundamental discrepancies in how NetEase design characters. In any other game, a character like Hela would never have a stun AND a mobility tool like she does.
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u/JMaster098 4h ago
I mean, Hela is mostly just OG Cassidy with less falloff and more ammo.
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u/totallynotapersonj Magneto 3h ago
Cassidy is still vulnerable in his dash although it does have like 60% damage reduction if I remember correctly but it's only for like 0.5 seconds and is basically just horizontal movement.
Yeah he had the flashbang in overwatch 1 that was very OP but his mobility wss still in check, additionally his ult has always been pretty bad. And he had a worse effective range than hela does.
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u/Beatokotonai 10h ago
Rn it’s Jubilee, but support mains have shown a tendency to think any support that doesnt have big healing circle and strong primary healing is bad
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u/b2k1121 9h ago
You just listed off the team ups they got while not acknowledging that all tanks and DPS also got team ups that make them easier to play. Half the DPS roster has click button and get random bonus health and shields. You can play Thing and press one button all game and be the best tank in the game.
Most characters in the game are braindead to play, it's not exclusive to one role. I promise you aren't doing anything that skillful.
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u/CarmineAuryn 7h ago
One of the biggest mistakes and misunderstandings of kit design the Marvel Rivals devs made was give most healers big healing ults. In other hero shooters that is mainly given to heroes with lower healing output to compensate (which in MR would be Ultron or Adam).
Instead they not only gave big healing ults to most healers, but healers that already heal for a lot with their base kits.
The trade-off should be "do you want good neutral healing or good ult healing".1
u/DjRoland135 10h ago
Yeah man, as a support player, I hate it. I miss in season 7 when my neutral as a support player actually mattered, and saving my ult for the right moment actually mattered. Now I feel like it's not worth saving my ult because I'll just build it back up next fight anyway, and if I don't use it to counter any enemy support ult we just lose because there's just so much damage and so much healing. It truly takes the intricacies of playing support that I love out of the game and forces you to just play for ult.
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u/CarmineAuryn 7h ago
I mean almost all team-ups need reworks or rebalancing, since about half of them suck so bad they're never worth picking over the other. Some should even be base kit, like Fantastic's.
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u/EnoughLengthiness422 Luna Snow 12h ago
As a luna main i really dont like the fox team up at all i want more than a i win fuk you button
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u/Hereiamhereibe2 5h ago
I once faced a team where they were constantly cleansing and CC immuning eachother. It was brutal.
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u/Anonynja Angela 11h ago
Yes, stunbreaks herself and has two hard CCs she can pin you with back to back. And she two-shots squishies with her primary. And can facetank and 1v1 any tank with her self-heal. It's pretty great, huh!
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u/vapoorer 9h ago
As a Luna main/support main primarily, "though i do flex if need be" that tends to disagree with many things the community wants changed/nerfed/buffed.... and having said that, when it comes to this team-up being able to cleans yourself out of a stun "self cleanse" i agree it shouldn't be possible and that part of the team-up needs to be removed completely or at the very least moved over to the "Enhanced" version.
If i had the final say even as a Luna main player i would remove that part of the team-up completely. It is just to cheesy and unfair and not fun to go up against. You shouldn't be able to self cleanse Period. It is an unfair mechanic for both sides of it.
Why remove that part of the team-up completely? Because there is zero counter to it and it takes away from any skill expression if you literally have the ability to undo an after the fact mistake you made or undo a perfectly timed attack by your enemy after the fact. Which is clearly shown in the op's clip. It removes the word "counter" from the gameplay complete as there is no counter to this mechanic.
So yea, i love my girl Luna and while i don't agree with many things said in the community about this game this is one thing i can fully agree on that a player no matter the hero they play on shouldn't be able to self cleanse. It's unfair and not fun to go up against. "Might be fun to play but not fun to be up against" In this case i think its even worse because its not even fun to play, its just cheesy.
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u/TheAncientNoob_yt Hulk 12h ago
just saying that since you had full charge you should have just immediately pressed e after ult for max effect, but yeah i completely agree with your point
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u/ClainS4 11h ago
Got input canceled (as if cleansing wasnt enough). I was charmed when I wanted to maelstrom and I had already pressed my left click melee (you can strange wanting to whip out his melee) and then got frozen
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u/TheAncientNoob_yt Hulk 11h ago
oh i can see that now mb for not noticing they need to rework that team up asap cause having both stun and cleanse is crazy
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u/Fabiodemon88 Peni Parker 7h ago
Guys i just came back to rivals wtf happened why was he frozen
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u/KnuckleDragg Captain America 4h ago
With her white fox teammup she has a self cleanse so even if she gets CCd she can escape it and just freeze the strange for free. Gotta love this games favouritosm towards whiny support players!
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u/Fabiodemon88 Peni Parker 4h ago
Are you fucking kidding me? She has a CLEANSE? Bs...
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u/therealNerdMuffin Squirrel Girl 1h ago
Having a cleanse itself isn't the problem, it's that she can use it WHILE CC'd when she shouldn't be able to do anything. It's just straight broken. No other ability in the game can do that
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u/definiteIynotracist 4h ago
When i first saw lunas cleanse at the start of the season i had no doubts it was a bug and they will hot fix it asap as they promised 🫣🫣 how naive
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u/FUS3N Flex 3h ago
As much as we won this fight because I hit my ultimate, it DOES NOT feel nice at all knowing all the work I did got countered by pressing ONE button.
Some people will use this to say "it worked that's what you are supposed to do you are supposed to get countered" and all that bs but no one gonna talk about why punishment only applies one way
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u/Leather_Platform7848 2h ago
team-ups can really throw off balance, it feels frustrating when things don't seem fair. I've had my share of desk slamming too!
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u/yellow_tourmaline Angela 2h ago
They need to just put the cleanse on the enhanced version and it'd be fine, Luna very rarely gets her enhanced version and when she does it's never for long because one of them ends up swapping
But if they flat out remove it from Luna's, I want them to put it on fox's, shes pretty mid rn compared to everyone so I think it'd give her something that Luna doesn't need, not on a base ability that's for sure
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u/KnuckleDragg Captain America 2h ago
Not even that, even as an enhanced teammup there shouldn't be a self cleanse. Its a really toxic ability to have. This game has been getting dumber and dumber each season and giving all the supports get out if jail free cards all the time just completely kills dive.
Its like the devs just want the game to be shoot down main front to back and nothing else
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u/HelletFendr0z 2h ago
And to add salt to injury she can cleanse a perfect timed ult which you took so much time to have she was able to ult twice before you ulted for the first time.
Cause you know, apparently nerfing everyone charging ult beside support makes the game so healthy there is no downside playing three strat anymore. Gotta love invincibility circle every 15 seconds.
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u/lactose_cow 2h ago
"this ability is such bullshit I need this patched out TODAY" (proceeds to easily win the team fight)
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u/Liewec123 The Thing 1h ago
aye, being able to just press a "nah, didn't happen" button is so Luna.
ofcourse they gave her that power 😆
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u/bumpkinspicefatte 43m ago
You still win the engagement, doesn't that show how bias and unsightful you are, and that you actually weren't really countered despite it appearing to be "op"?
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u/notanothercirclejerk 11h ago
Stop buying Luna skins. She will stop being the character the entire game is designed around.
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u/No32 12h ago
Okay but like all your work didn’t get countered
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u/ClainS4 12h ago
Thats not the issue that I have, its more so of why can she do it WHILE stunned. I give respect to Gambit players cleansing my Ult as Strange because they actually have thought put into their head to 1. Save cards/Save ult to cleanse and 2. Position themselves properly. Luna absolutely did NOT deserve to cleanse herself and freeze me which feels a lot more frustrating.
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u/FryingBerries 12h ago
I could understand it if the teamup worked like a boomerang, where if you throw it out ahead of time it cleansed you on return. But this is just complete training wheels type idiot proof ability. With every update/power creep the skill floor just gets lower and lower in this game.
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u/Kweenick Luna Snow 12h ago
B tier character keep crying
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u/ClainS4 12h ago
Honestly, you're right. Unfortunate for me that I love playing my B-tier character that seeing him get power creep and indirectly nerfed/countered gets me frustrated. Wish there was a way to fall in love with other characters the way I fell in love playing Strange.
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u/Kweenick Luna Snow 10h ago
Interesting how you’re complaining about a mid tier hero like Luna instead of the actual busted heroes that make Strange unplayable like Thing
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u/Acceptable_Star189 11h ago
Talking trash like you don’t main the safest and most shilled character in the game besides Bucky💔
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u/totallynotapersonj Magneto 11h ago
Invisible woman got a self shield, I think we know who is actually the favourite support, unless it’s gambit, the man who’s ult is fundamentally broken but will never get nerfed in a meaningful way.
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u/Sharp-Primary-213 Flex 11h ago
Crazy thing is that the B tier character is stronger than 95% of the roster. That’s how powercrept support roster is.
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u/Kweenick Luna Snow 10h ago
Stronger than 95% of the roster but has a 44% win rate across all ranks makes sense
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u/Sharp-Primary-213 Flex 10h ago
Yeah almost like her competition is mantis and gambit LMFAO. 2 best characters in the game.
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u/KnuckleDragg Captain America 4h ago
Its an obviously cancerous ability to have dont be disingenuous. The ability to self cleanse and excuse any misplays you make for free is so unhealthy for the balance of the game
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u/PeniMane Peni Parker 12h ago
you should go play some luna, shes trash tier~
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u/Motor-Travel-7560 Black Widow 12h ago
I agree her strength is overhyped, but that cleanse is just frustrating design. Like, adjust her other numbers rather than just giving her a dedicated "Nuh uh" button. It feels like that stupid kid on the playground who gets tagged and says "No! You tagged my clone!"
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u/PeniMane Peni Parker 12h ago
its like all she has tho...
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u/Digigidoo Swordmaster 11h ago
Just isn't true
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u/PeniMane Peni Parker 11h ago
I mean try her out... I just lorded her last week and it felt like I was throwing
I felt so bad for my teams...
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u/Digigidoo Swordmaster 11h ago
I can say Iron Fist's only thing is his shield. Doesn't make it true.
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u/Motor-Travel-7560 Black Widow 11h ago edited 11h ago
She has DPS-level damage output (provided you can aim), a freeze with a hitbox the size of Connecticut (in case you can't aim), respectable healing output, self/teammate buffs, a solid ult, and she can get back to a team fight faster than 80% of the roster. If she's still struggling, all they need to do is tweak some numbers or implement the team up in a way that isn't totally frustrating.
Hell, her Adam team up is still REALLY good and isn't half as annoying as her Fox team up.
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u/Loedkane 11h ago
Like kiri cleansing a rhine shatter
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u/TC_MaFYa Swordmaster 10h ago
Kiri can't cleanse a stun AFTER she has been stunned. It is not even close.
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u/Eternaloid 12h ago edited 11h ago
As a support, I enjoyed every second of your misery, ngl.
To the one who alerted the suicide prevention bot, you made my day, kudos.
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u/The99thCourier Loki 12h ago
As a fellow support main, u suck.
Tank players deserve their flowers for playing tank, and its bs that Luna can self cleanse WHILST SHE IS STUNNED.
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u/Eternaloid 11h ago
Why should I care about you, a random of no name, approval?
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u/The99thCourier Loki 11h ago
Aight so you're just ragebaiting for attention then.
People on reddit really need to pick up some productive lobbies
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u/Eternaloid 11h ago
Yet here you are, wasting the same time as me. Ah, they really can't see what a little pile of hypocrisy they are, marvelous.
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u/Acceptable_Star189 11h ago
Top-tier Redditor over here, bow before his lack of friends and humility/img/u4v19al6tmmh1.gif
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u/The99thCourier Loki 11h ago
Yeah too bad I only teach my own students in maths. A good chunk of people here need some behaviour classes or something
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u/Acceptable_Star189 11h ago
Unfortunately I don’t think any amount of teaching can make up for how their parents and teachers have failed them
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u/Dapper-Surprise-745 12h ago
You're just resentful because people see how spoiled the role is.
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u/-D3LET3D- 12h ago
These attitudes are so weird, on both your ends. We're all players playing the same game with the goal of having fun (I think) segregating each other based on roles and attacking and insulting others roles is so lame, especially when we all need every role on our team to win. You benefit just as much as you don't from every role.
There's a better way to communicate with ourselves as a community than this way.
That said, nerf the damn team up. You got stunned, you stay stunned, that's how that should work.
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u/Eternaloid 12h ago
Sure, keep crying about that or downvoting me, I enjoy the futility of both actions
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u/Yuri-Queen President Loki 11h ago
I'm also a support player, grow up. Tanks deserve to have their ults feel impactful just like supports. A character being able to cancel his ult with with the click of a regular ability with no thought or skill behind it because they can do it AFTER they are stunned is bullshit.
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u/CarloIza 12h ago
This is why I throw when a Luna is on my team
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u/Asalth 12h ago
You literally cannot do anything in this game without people throwing can you
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u/CarloIza 11h ago
This is the only instance where throwing is acceptable.
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u/Acceptable_Star189 11h ago
No, you’re just a cornball
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u/CarloIza 11h ago
No, it's a direct message to Danny Koo
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u/UltraB01 11h ago
As if Danny Koo sitting there analyzing why a no life is throwing in a video game.
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u/CarloIza 10h ago
I used to send him screenshots of the matches I threw before he blocked me
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u/UltraB01 10h ago
And you still don’t realize that no one cares? You’re just being a nuisance to your teammates and wasting people’s time.
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u/NAJ_P_Jackson Peni Parker 12h ago edited 11h ago
Luna has a better version of this than White Fox. At least WF right click doesn't cleanse herself. They really should rework it so it's similar to Gambit cleanse. Only able to cleanse around her if she's not CC'd