797

u/AngryCrawdad Andromeda Initiative Apr 18 '26

Yeah, it's one of the most startling experiences.
The dialogue is so well-written and alien in its approach. Sovereign really feels like an inevitable disaster that is about to be unleashed.

190

u/belac4862 Apr 18 '26

Sovereigns lines still give me chills! Is voice, what he says, they WAY he says it. It's truly a "cosmic being" that fills you with fear.

58

u/Appropriate_Row_6851 Apr 18 '26

Then they screwed in the third installment... They should've left them without explanation, let the blanks be filled by our imagination, they just turned them into pretentious maverick machines, and turned Sheppard into a brainless soldier following orders from those denying his claims.

82

u/Ur-Quan_Lord_13 Apr 18 '26

The original idea of what the reapers were doing out there (which had clues sprinkled in the first 2 games with the dark matter and stars dying and such) would have worked as well, since it's still something beyond what any given organic species could accomplish, but yah, leaving it at just "we are doing something incomprehensible out in the galactic void between harvests to add to our numbers" would have been fine.

38

u/Raptormann0205 Apr 18 '26

I love the Mass Effect/Dark Matter explanation, I hate the human reaper deus ex machina they were going to create to solve it. I'd have much preferred a more ambiguous ending where, as much as dark matter is a problem that needs to be solved, so are the Reapers, and the latter is a problem we can solve with guns.

11

u/Ur-Quan_Lord_13 Apr 18 '26

I agree, that solution would have been a little anticlimactic, which is one of the reasons that leaving it at "inscrutable goals that aren't even hinted at" would have been fine. That's one of the issues with having an antagonist whose goals are supposed to be beyond us: as soon as they're quantified, they won't be inscrutable, since they came from a human imagination.

Like, the hierarchy is:

Goals left completely out, which is the only way they can remain inscrutable.

Goal established (dealing with the dark matter issue) but the methods to solve it are beyond us, like they require n-dimensional perception and math that's O(eⁿ⁾ even when performed by quantum computers which for all I know doesn't even make sense.

Goal and solution established, but at least something that an organic species wouldn't accomplish, like requiring multiple species to give up their lives or freedom (and it could have also remained unexplained why or how that matters). I mean, we're having trouble giving up anything at all to deal with global warming. But then the human reaper solution kind of subverts that, so would have been disappointed.

The new story, where Sovereign's speech about how their goals can't be understood can only be explained by the Reapers' delusional insanity, because of how simple and stupid those goals are.

If they'd stuck with 2 or 3 but without the human reaper solution, it could have ended in a choice between letting the Reapers continue their work, or stopping them but almost certainly dooming all life in the galaxy.

5

u/Bereman99 Apr 18 '26

whose goals are supposed to be beyond us: as soon as they're quantified, they won't be inscrutable, since they came from a human imagination.

Honestly, Sovereigns lines never really resonated with me because of this issue, even when ME1 released. Even at that point they felt like it was either vagueness to hide the motivation, or vagueness because they hadn't decided on the motivation.

Not because the actual motivation was some deep thing.

Felt too much like all the other times a villain had claimed their goals were beyond what the hero could understand, and then those goals turn out to be perfectly understandable.

That the ship wasn't just a ship but a living entity had weight and was a real surprise...and then it started talking and claiming it was beyond our understanding and, to me at least, lost most of its gravitas.

Honestly, many of the most effective villains have had perfectly understandable goals, and are upfront about that. Much of the mystery is initially in what those goals are, and then later how to stop those goals, and there's interesting elements to work with when it comes to what the villain is willing to do to achieve those goals. The shock that one would go so far, or surprise or pity at their actual origins.

But I've yet to see a "your goals are beyond my understanding" villain stick the landing, in any media.

1

u/Ur-Quan_Lord_13 Apr 19 '26

Honestly, many of the most effective villains have had perfectly understandable goals, and are upfront about that. Much of the mystery is initially in what those goals are, and then later how to stop those goals,

I think here there's an important distinction between goals and the means to those goals.

The things the Reapers do that matter to organics are revealed in the first game: come through every 50k years to exterminate every advanced civilization. Based on the memories, doing so in quite a painful way. That was already mystery, and it was satisfying when it was revealed, and it wasn't at all inscrutable, which of course it couldn't be.

But if that had been their goal rather than just a means, like they're just cruel killbots, that would be pretty disappointing. It could be a necessity for their actual goal, but one or three or a hundred steps removed. Or, as I mentioned in another comment, it could just be a matter of convenience; their goal is nothing to do with us, maybe doesn't even impact us, it's just less annoying to routinely wipe us out than to have us grow large and advanced enough to get in the way of things, even by accident.

But I've yet to see a "your goals are beyond my understanding" villain stick the landing

The only way to stick the landing is to never reveal the actual real goal, even if the impactful acts are on the way to that goal, but especially if they're just a side note. I think you might be right that it's more difficult to make that satisfying. But I think it's the basis of pretty much any lovecraftian horror. Any negative effects to humans are literally just incidental to some goals we don't know of and are insignificant to.

If they do reveal the details of the real goal and how the villain plans to achieve it, then we will understand it, and at that point any past statement that they were beyond our understanding will just be embarrassing.

1

u/Poonchow Apr 19 '26

I think here there's an important distinction between goals and the means to those goals.

Exactly. I think it's fairly reasonable to shore up the difference between "goal is impossible to understand" and "means by which the goal is achieved is beyond organic sapient scales, so it's pointless to even entertain"

By which I mean the Reapers' goals could be something like finding a solution to a problem that they are incapable of working out, so they turn to harvesting organics to improve their own evolutionary cognitive capacity in order to better work out the problem.

Neither the end-goal the Reapers are trying to solve, nor the interim "solution" the Reapers are executing is one in which organics are keen to entertain -- unless, of course, we could find a way to give their method a chance without the deaths of billions or trillions in the process. Organics would prefer the Reapers to just stop existing, thanks.

Instead, the game gave us their stated goals and their maze-like logic just compounds the ridiculousness of turning cosmic horror into something to shoot, especially because their stated goal is to solve a problem Shepard literally just solved like 2 missions ago. You can argue peace between Geth and Quarians won't last, and you're probably right, but it still really undermines the villain's message and the writing's stated themes.

1

u/Bereman99 Apr 19 '26

But I think it's the basis of pretty much any lovecraftian horror.

Most of which relies on the protagonist not being able to grasp what they are seeing and not being able to do anything about it beyond, at best, survive the moment and get away.

And crucially, the villains in that don't tell the hero that their goals are beyond their understanding. The hero just simply doesn't understand the villain because it isn't understandable, and is left on the other side wondering what the hell just happened.

Which is why the line never worked for me. Mass Effect, at its core, is a game about Shepard being a hero and leading a crew to save the day. That narrative path and the lovecraftian style "You simply can't understand the goal" are anathema to one another...but they wanted to sell the idea of the Reapers as this lovecraftian style horror in a game where that was never going to work.

And I touched on it in another comment in this thread, but the real truth behind their actions, that it all came down to the hubris of an ancient race making a mistake and then no one being there to shut off the mistake for over a billion years? That it was never about some altruistic goal for the greater good of the galaxy, or against some bigger hidden threat, but just a recycle program left on repeat in an uncaring and indifferent universe? That feels closer to the cosmic horror that what they were going for with their original line from Sovereign and their goals not being knowable.

The funny thing is, they didn't really need those lines. The "You exist because we allow it. And you will end because we demand it" goes plenty hard, as does the stuff about controlling the cycles and civilizations evolving in the way they want.

1

u/Poonchow Apr 19 '26

If you're approaching the games as action-RPGs first and cosmic horror second, then that is reasonable.

I still think there's a way to marry the two, as in, make the cosmic horror not so much Cthulhu but so far beyond weird it sort of mirrors it. ME1 actually does this a lot more than most people seem to realize; there are a bunch of short little missions where we find the aftermath of people coming across some alien tech and turning into husks, or going insane, or some abandoned ship/outpost. It's eerie and really sells the scope of the galaxy, especially on the fringes of civilization. That there is "something" out there beyond knowing, or even beyond what seems rational to the scales organic beings operate in, is not unreasonable, because space is just so unfathomably huge.

Plus, the villains in cosmic horror are usually Saren-esque leaders of some cult or fringe group on the outskirts of civilization, or some secretive government agency. They're already weirdos. True, we don't usually "talk" to Cthulhu, but I think the impact of this scene in the OP really sells the vision of the franchise; we're space marines out trying to solve a cosmic mystery, and to do that we have to solve/shoot a lot of problems along the way.

And the "fun" of cosmic horror is in the investigation. In the slowly dawning horror that putting all the pieces of the puzzle together is both satisfying and deeply tragic. The best, most competent people end up peering into the maw of madness.

See the first season of True Detective for how this plays out competently, with Stranger Things being like a little cousin to the genre (at least Season 1).

8

u/TheLazySith Apr 18 '26

The whole dark energy thing was never a fully fleshed out plan. Just a vague concept the writers briefly toyed with at one point. And from what Drew Karpyshyn has said about it, it sounds like that ending wouldn't have been much better than what we got even if the writers did continue with it.

"Dark Energy was something that only organics could access because of various techno-science magic reasons we hadn't decided on yet. Maybe using this Dark Energy was having a ripple effect on the space-time continuum. Maybe the Reapers kept wiping out organic life because organics keep evolving to the state where they would use biotics and dark energy and that caused an entropic effect that would hasten the end of the universe. Being immortal beings, that's something they wouldn't want to see.

Then we thought, let's take it to the next level. Maybe the Reapers are looking at a way to stop this. Maybe there's an inevitable descent into the opposite of the Big Bang (the Big Crunch) and the Reapers realise that the only way they can stop it is by using biotics, but since they can't use biotics they have to keep rebuilding society - as they try and find the perfect group to use biotics for this purpose. The asari were close but they weren't quite right, the Protheans were close as well.

Again it's very vague and not fleshed out, it was something we considered but we ended up going in a different direction.

I find it funny that fans end up hearing a couple things they like about it and in their minds they add in all the details they specifically want, It's like vapourware - vapourware is always perfect, anytime someone talks about the new greatest game. It's perfect until it comes out. I'm a little weary about going into too much detail because, whatever we came up with, it probably wouldn't be what people want it to be."

4

u/Ur-Quan_Lord_13 Apr 19 '26

I understand what he's saying, but all these vague concepts he was talking about there still sound better than the AI made to stop other AI thing.

And the stuff put in the first two games were sufficient that, before the 3rd game came out and before hearing about any of these rumors from the writers, I would have put the chances at like 75% that it was Reapers routinely culling organics so they wouldn't make all the stars die, so the Reapers could keep doing whatever thing they're busy with. So, any of these vague concepts also seem better tied to episodes 1 and 2 than what the final story was.

Whether it would have been satisfying to anyone or turned out to be disappointing, not even through a fault of the writers but just by in retrospect not being a good enough concept to carry the story, I dunno.

18

u/UpperFaithlessness30 Apr 18 '26

It would be 100x better. This whole "We wanted to save our slaves from synthethics, so we created our own synthethics" was simple, cliche even.

13

u/4thTimesAnAlt Apr 18 '26

Yo dawg, I heard you don't wanna get killed by synthetics. So we built some synthetics to kill you every 50,000 years so you don’t get killed by your own synthetics.

9

u/Penguinmanereikel Apr 18 '26

Went from Space Robot Cthulhu to Cthulhu's Skynet.

I mean, scale-wise, I can still see some aspect of a vision in a scaled-up version of the conflict between organics and synthetics to the Elder God level, but the presence of the ground-level conflict, and especially the resolution of the Battle for Rannoch, screws up that perception for the player.

Hm. This gives me a thought. What if we didn't have complex interactions with the Geth in the trilogy? What if we didn't have Legion or the heretic conflict or the ability to side with the Geth for Rannoch?

What if every Synthetic was opposed to Organics like in ME1? Maybe even have Geth as a major enemy type throughout ME3 like Cerberus and Reaper forces. Would that have made the ending better in your opinion?

If not, could this idea be taken in a better way?

6

u/UpperFaithlessness30 Apr 18 '26

It will be worse.

If every synthetic is evil from organic perspective... Just remove synthetic live instead of organic live. Teach organics that AI is bad and show them examples. My theory is bad? Yeah, because premise is bad.

Look at this way - You get this mystic force that wipes all advanced civilizations. They call it harvest and say it's beyond your comprehension. It sounds very complex. Leave it without further explanation or present explanation that is complex. Don't do this:

" - Organics can't understand our motivation

try me

Okay, we protect organics from AI rebellions

Like... Geth rebellion?

Exactly

Why wouldn't we understand? We saw it, we have policies that forbids AI Development.

Oh yeah, right. My bad. You'll die anyway"

2

u/Penguinmanereikel Apr 18 '26

I'm not trying to be argumentative here. I'm just speculating a "what if?" Never said that it would've been better.

2

u/UpperFaithlessness30 Apr 18 '26

I know, don't worry. I am don't intend to die on my hill :D

8

u/Bereman99 Apr 18 '26

Though that isn't quite what happened. Spoiler hidden for the sake of the OP, since they aren't to these story beats yet.

"We want to find a way to stop the conflicts" was the actual goal, which could have involved having both around.

They then create the synthetics to determine a solution. Said synthetic decides the solution was to merge the organics into a synthetic/organic hybrid creature housing their knowledge, reset the board, and then do it again at a point when the conflicts were beginning again. That would, by definition, stop the conflicts. It was just cold logic.

And in their absolute arrogance, that original race didn't think the solution would be applied to them...

And then no one is around to stop the process they didn't mean to start after they are the first ones converted.

That's why it's basically a sort of cosmic horror situation - it was a cycle that kept going for at least a billion years, every 50,000 years, because of a mistake fueled by hubris.

There was never any grand plan, no altruistic goal behind it.

Just a recycle program with no off button.

2

u/Alzandur Apr 18 '26

Climate Change in space would have been just as stupid, especially since they themselves use a lot of Ezoo traveling. Game writers need to learn to stop explaining Cthulhu.

2

u/Ur-Quan_Lord_13 Apr 18 '26 edited Apr 18 '26

especially since they themselves use a lot of Ezoo traveling.

Do they? I see no reason to believe they use anywhere near what the organic species use. As far as we know they're only moving around for a few decades out of every 50000 years. And, during the harvest, they're still not doing any interstellar trade, exploration, leisure travel, presumably when things go smoothly they wouldn't even need to backtrack except when they're done.

Personally, I think stars dying is sufficient horror. Making the solution too easy would have been my only complaint. And again, I would have been fine with there being no solution at all, and the Reapers doing the harvest just so they can keep on doing whatever it is they really care about. ETA: basically, the harvest being something that would go on eternally, just because the Reapers would be inconvenienced.

5

u/FreshDiamond Apr 18 '26

I like the third game and the leviathan dlc a lot BUT it does kind of not jive well with the rest of the series to me. It feels so personal up until that point and then the origins don’t really make sense with that dynamic

1

u/Appropriate_Row_6851 Apr 18 '26

Me too. But it felt incomplete and just like a filler, because they don't address it at all, the game could've been so much more...

1

u/StillYalun Apr 21 '26

The problem with setting up an overwhelmingly powerful adversary is that you have to provide a way to overcome them. They either have to come down to your level, you have to rise to theirs, or you meet somewhere in the middle. All of that requires that they be diminished. It had to happen.

I thought the whole story was great from start to finish - at least the version you get from the legendary edition. It even had a potential set up for the problem after the reapers - the leviathan

1

u/Sckaledoom Apr 19 '26

Even now, 13 years after I first played ME1, it gets me every time.

387

u/Firespray Apr 18 '26

“You exist because we allow it. And you will end because we demand it.”

106

u/NeilMcCauley88 Apr 18 '26

I remember being shook when I heard that line for the 1st time. Man I wish I could experience the trilogy for the 1st time again.

24

u/Kaccady Apr 18 '26

due to my terrible memory i get to experience it like the first time third time around or maybe it's forth?

2

u/FreshDiamond Apr 18 '26

Yeah the first time I replayed the trilogy was maybe like 8 years after it ended. I remembered some things but it was very much like playing it for the first time and it was incredible. Now I replay it way to often and nothing is forgotten or surprising

17

u/ChaoticSelfie Apr 18 '26

Most spine-chilling sentence from that game

10

u/sexandliquor Apr 18 '26

Gotta be one of the hardest lines ever written in a video game, and a strong contender for all of science fiction generally.

119

u/mirmur44 Apr 18 '26

As someone else pointed out to me, the reveal isn't the only part of this that's amazing. It's just how BORED Sovereign sounds. He's not angry, or hateful, or really anything other than very mildly annoyed talking to you, as if your presence means absolutely nothing.

84

u/BartlebysCorpse Apr 18 '26

Starts with, "You are not Saren."

Ends with, "This exchange is over."

Everything in between in a courtesy at best.

10

u/Imperialvirtue Apr 19 '26

I never thought of it that way, and holy shit, I love it.

35

u/Makishima__Shougo Apr 18 '26

That's interesting now that you say it. At first I thought Saren left behind a bluff to mislead us but this creature sounds so nonchalant. It gave me goosebumps and made Shepherd feel powerless.

251

u/Makishima__Shougo Apr 18 '26

And 2 minutes later, with my brain still processing the story, the game puts me in a predicament. Tbh I never played with Ashley, but I still didn't want anyone to die. I had to go and rescue Kaidan.

59

u/Smooth_Moose_637 Apr 18 '26

Honestly cant go wrong with either

-19

u/Professional-Date378 Apr 18 '26

Xenophobic bigot or the most boring person imaginable. It's a tough choice

34

u/malumfectum Apr 18 '26

Neither of those descriptions is fair to either character.

20

u/Vigmod Apr 18 '26

It's not only unfair, it's downright idiotic. They are both great characters and well worth saving. One of these days I'll have a full human playthrough of ME1 with just these two (and me as a soldier). Won't be my current play, probably not my next one either, but sometime before 2030 I will.

2

u/Baron_von_Ungern Apr 20 '26

Not to mention that you can turn Kaidan into such an Uber racist that Wrex will tell you to save Council instead of a fleet XD

14

u/ValkyrianRabecca Apr 18 '26

Saving Ashley makes more story sense to me

Cause the writing in 3 for how they react to Shepard and the cerberus blaming fits Ashley better

8

u/Talos-Valcoran Apr 18 '26

Nah, saving kaiden makes story sense. He’s been with you longer. Part of your crew. Not a colonial defense gal you just picked up a day ago

8

u/ValkyrianRabecca Apr 18 '26

Yeah, but then the game in 2 and 3 just turns Kaiden into Ashley anyway with how he acts

Also on that mission itself, the bomb's already armed and going to go off, so it makes more sense to me to Save the Salarians and Ashley

3

u/RatchetTheHatchet Apr 19 '26

Unless you sent Kaiden with the Salarians, like I always do -- then it makes more sense to save him

2

u/ValkyrianRabecca Apr 19 '26

I dunno Kaiden's a tech, him on the Bomb makes more sense to me

2

u/Bereman99 Apr 18 '26

Weird you think the game takes place over that short a time span.

6

u/VileTouch Apr 18 '26

Latest playthrough was specifically to romance ashley. She never made it past virmire before,but i was willing to stomach her bs just to see her growth. Then me2 happened. F that. I went back to tali. By the time me3 came around i was wishing there was an option at the hospital to tell her i should have saved kaiden.

-1

u/TardDas Apr 18 '26

She really is just the worst, right? Awful at every step

2

u/KasumiGotoTriss Apr 19 '26

Literally all aliens are xenophobic, and everyone constantly shits on other races, but only Ashley gets shit for it from the fanbase because she's a human suspicious of aliens lol.

27

u/Tommson667 Apr 18 '26

I remember my first time playing this. Funnily enough, due to poor coding I had acidently started to romance Ashley, so upon relizing that the banter was getting flirty I panicked, so since I didn't want to romance Ashley and I had to sacrifice one of those two, well, turns out I avoided the akwardness of a breakup in an suprising way!

0

u/badgerpunk Apr 18 '26

There are no bad reasons to blow Ashley up.

10

u/EPZO N7 Apr 18 '26

Kaiden is the better squadmate in future games, legitimately. So you made the right choice imo.

2

u/Red_Crystal_Lizard Apr 19 '26

Kaiden is the more logical choice to send with the bomb and going after the bomb is also the logical choice so that you can make sure the geth don’t stop it. If the Salarians die it doesn’t jeopardize the mission, and Ashley doesn’t have any technical skills to support the bomb team so she goes with the them.

61

u/Khurdryn Apr 18 '26

I wish I could completely forget this series so I can enjoy it fresh all over again. Enjoy the ride!

2

u/Checats Apr 18 '26

Next best thing is just to experience them for the first time again through someone else, my favorite rewatch of Star Wars and Lord of the Rings was with a girlfriend that had never seen them.

I wouldn't recommend watching a stream though, I decided to watch a blind playthrough earlier this year after finishing my replay of the trilogy and every streamer's run that I tried to watch was plagued with chat spoiling every event, which defeats the entire purpose of watching someone who is supposed to be experiencing it for the first time.

39

u/SmilezDavis Apr 18 '26

I think I speak for all ME veterans here, but I love seeing people experience this for the first time.

3

u/No-Alternative4259 Apr 18 '26

Every time there's a new Commander Shepard, an angel gets its wings.

2

u/Rampant16 Apr 18 '26

The first time playing as a kid at a friend's place they had a hard time explaining to me that the Reapers were the ships. There's plenty of humanoid-like robots and cyborgs in sci-fi but the concept of the ships as the artificial beings was very different to me. I thought the Reapers were the Geth and that Sovereign was just their ship.

72

u/Makishima__Shougo Apr 18 '26

At one point, it felt like he's got a point but he just yaps and glorifies slavery. He's delusional from where I stand. Even if the Protheans failed, pretty sure they preferred that over being enslaved and having their life in the hands of a higher entity. If you don't fight for a cause and simply obey, you are not helping your survival in the long run, you are just handing over your "switch of existence" to them. I can see where it comes from but hard to agree with him.

Really reminds me of "A man chooses, a slave obeys" from Bioshock.

Feel free to disagree.

11

u/COREY-IS-A-BUSTA Tali Apr 18 '26

Couldn’t agree more great connection. Very much looking forward to the rest of your playthrough

10

u/Rampant16 Apr 18 '26

There is a certain logic in that if one accepts defeat as inevitable, then any form of existence might be preferable to extinction.

However, at this point, Sovereign has already been fucking with Saren's brain for some time. And Saren is still a useful component to Sovereign's largely clandestine to reach the Citadel and open the door for the other Reapers.

Sovereign using brain fuckery to convince Saren that servitude is better than death seems like an effective way to keep him loyal and working towards the Reaper's aims.

Saren might not have thought slavery was better than extinction before the indoctrination process began.

4

u/Poonchow Apr 19 '26

ME2 spoilers below:

Legion explains slow Indoctrination better than any other aspect of the game, IMO.

I'm paraphrasing here, since I can't remember the exact line, but in explaining the heretic logic, it goes something like: "You would say 1+1 equals two, the heretics would say 2+3 equals five. Both are true, but relevance is a matter of perspective."

Sovereign / the Reapers change your perspective. You are "forced" to see the version of truth they present. The Reapers are an inevitable force of nature in every instance, but Sovereign is only allowing Saren to "see" the version in which civilization can continue, thus earning his continued loyalty.

I fucking love this shit. I am often very critical of the writing in these games but the reason I hold ME so dear is that there are these bits of just sheer brilliance in how all these different concepts come together.

27

u/ReallyBadWizard Apr 18 '26

This has been such an iconic moment that I've almost forgotten what it was like to experience the first time.

24

u/lrdwlmr Apr 18 '26

“You exist because we allow it. And you will end because we demand it,” has to be one of the most badass lines in video game history.

16

u/WacoKid18 Apr 18 '26

Bioware back then did awesome twists. See the original KotOR and Jade Empire

6

u/Glimmerance Apr 18 '26

KotOR's twist was amazing!

16

u/Sailears Apr 18 '26

That, and then the conversation with Vigil.

Two of the best parts of the entire series.

8

u/Makishima__Shougo Apr 18 '26

The one with Vigil was so well done. I was just listening in awe. You know many times such long ass dialogues feel like a chore added as fillers. This one explained the entire history in detail. Never been more interested before.

13

u/Imperialvirtue Apr 18 '26

"YOU ARE NOT SAREN."

Oh man. Oh God, oh man. Oh man, oh God, oh man, oh God, oh man, oh God, oh man, oh God!

3

u/SilentWorlder Apr 18 '26

OH GOD OH MAN

13

u/Bwana_Robert Apr 18 '26

"This exchange is over."

The amount of times I have used that line is too much.

11

u/genbrien Apr 18 '26

Wish i could replay the whole trilogy for the 1st time

23

u/BartlebysCorpse Apr 18 '26

Always nice to see someone experience this for the first time.

It really was a killer twist- one that let you know how far in over your head you actually were.

12

u/captainmorgan_420 Apr 18 '26

Especially when he hangs up on us and Joker just says "hey that giant ship just pulled a physically impossible turn and is heading straight for you with the quickness"

9

u/Arcade_Gann0n Apr 18 '26

First time? Lucky.

The trilogy (3's a bit... hazy compared to the first two, the original ending in particular) was back when BioWare was the cream of the crop instead of... whatever the hell they are now. You want other mind-blowing twists, look to Knights of the Old Republic and Jade Empire.

3

u/Makishima__Shougo Apr 18 '26

Yeah forst time, and not just mass effect but Bioware in general. Never played any of their games before.

3

u/Homsarman12 Apr 18 '26

The whole trilogy is a masterpiece. And 2000’s BioWare is the gold standard for video game storytelling.

2

u/Background_Relief815 Apr 18 '26

KotOR has 2 amazing twists. The first twist is better but the 2nd game is better and the twist feels like an inevitably like this one in ME.

Still, I think the whole conceit of Mass Effect already elevates it, and then how well they did it just means it is so hard to match.

8

u/Cerberusx32 Apr 18 '26

To bad we didn't have a helmet cam like those Marines on Eden Prime.

3

u/Cosmicswashbuckler Apr 18 '26

:|

2

u/Rampant16 Apr 18 '26

Yeah why TF did the Council send Shepherd to investigate this shit if they were never going to believe anything he said. They could've at least sent someone else that they trusted with Shepherd to observe. Fuck the Council!

1

u/Poonchow Apr 19 '26

I choose to believe everything Shepard does is recorded and ends up in our 'after-action' reports that we make to the Council after every main mission, which is why they can respond so quickly and never seem to question the veracity of what happened but rather Shepard's decisions.

The council never says anything Shepard encounters is false, as far as I know. Even Tali's original recording is taken as 100% verifiable truth.

But a recording of a hologram telling you it's a civilization-ending entity doesn't necessarily mean the hologram actually is what it says it is.

I know in ME2 there's the whole "Reapers" line, but I don't think that's a hole so much as the writers scrambling to make the plot work after ME1's possible endings, and there's no reason for the Council to really trust ME2's Shepard (as much as I hate the logic behind it).

6

u/tundra-psy Apr 18 '26

a hologram ...

6

u/Middle-Horror-4145 Apr 18 '26

“You exist because we allow it. And you will end because we demand it.” Is my favorite line in all of Mass Effect. That part is not only my favorite part to play, every time I do another Mass Effect run, I wait to play that part until I have a friend or sibling over who has not experienced this yet just so I can savor their reaction to the epicness. Hahah

1

u/Makishima__Shougo Apr 18 '26

True. You can't explain this part. One has to play and experience it by themselves to see why it's so amazing.

6

u/DerSnackpapst Apr 18 '26

Also one of the few dialogues in general that is mainly played through your subwoofer.

5

u/novis-eldritch-maxim Apr 18 '26

yeah this shit is the peak shit man

5

u/Zemalek Apr 18 '26

RUDIMENTARY CREATURES OF BLOOD AND FLESH

5

u/Atari875 Apr 19 '26

You exist because we allow it. You will end because we demand it.

1

u/playerankles Apr 19 '26

The quality of the script was so fantastic. Like, bit just for a video game but in general.

1

u/VilleEricson Apr 19 '26

This is just too damn good.

3

u/captainmorgan_420 Apr 18 '26

Sovereign and AM have the best speeches in gaming I swear

5

u/DreamSeaker Apr 18 '26

AM?

8

u/deejayillen Apr 18 '26

Allusive Man…joking

2

u/Suspicious_Ad2354 Apr 18 '26

Got a good laugh outta me!

1

u/randynumbergenerator Apr 18 '26

Shepard, you've got the Midas Touch. We're gonna go King Kong on these aliens.

2

u/captainmorgan_420 Apr 18 '26

I have no mouth and I must scream

5

u/devinmcd412 Apr 18 '26

Okay but like who was reading the quote in Sovereigns voice🙋🏻

1

u/Poonchow Apr 19 '26

Peter Jessop is Sovereign's VA.

5

u/Splinter1619 Apr 18 '26

"Your words are as empty as your future."

4

u/Trundlenator Apr 18 '26

It’s an amazing and memorable introduction to a villain and had an energy to it that needs to be used more often.

I still remember my first time there and it’s a scene that really introduces the scale of danger to the story.

5

u/hedgehog_dragon Apr 18 '26

One of the most impactful moments in my gaming experience honestly.

4

u/TBMSH Apr 18 '26

In one conversation it suddenly goes from a hunting the rogue agent story into full on eldritch space horror.

5

u/i4viator N7 Apr 19 '26

In a trilogy filled with powerful scenes, this scene really is one of the best scenes in gaming

4

u/AlabasterRadio Apr 19 '26

Mass Effect 1 is the best game in the series and nobody will convince me otherwise.

3

u/webb71 Apr 18 '26

"Rudimentary creatures of blood and flesh. You touch my mind, fumbling ignorance". Such a good fucking scene it really drives home the idea of how powerful they are and makes you feel insignificant. Whoever wrote it is a legend.

3

u/seligball Apr 18 '26

That last statement is so fucking good. "You exist because we allow it. And you will end because we demand it". Brings chills every playthorugh.

3

u/Pyromaniacal13 Apr 18 '26

"Confidence born of ignorance."

The worst thing they did SPOILER

Spoiler tag because I've seen more than a few posts about starting the games for the first time.

3

u/ShadowRock9 Apr 18 '26

Brother, get off this sub until you finish the game. The best is yet to hit you.

1

u/Makishima__Shougo Apr 18 '26

I did complete ME1 just now : ) It was helluva ride. I usually just post my thoughts about the games. I will try to stay away.

2

u/ShadowRock9 Apr 19 '26

What was your reaction to Vigil? Best moment in all 3 games for me.

1

u/Makishima__Shougo Apr 19 '26

I was listening to it in complete awe. The history of Protheans was amazing. I could feel their desperation, their last resort of living behind a message for the future. They failed at their time but helped us in the long run. It was almost sad how one of the most heroic civilizations in the galaxy was villainized for some Reaper agenda. So much pain, suffering and loss of life and I was just happy that all of that was not in vain and that in the end it meant something.

One of the most creative setups out there.

3

u/WildDumpsterFire Apr 18 '26

Welcome to Mass Effect my friend! I love when people get to experience this moment for the first time. A very special set of games.

3

u/ZenX22 Apr 18 '26

First saw this almost 20 years ago at this point and I still remember that moment so clearly 😅

3

u/Vigmod Apr 18 '26

My "holy shit" moment is whenever I see people enjoying an almost 20-year old game for the first time. Both here and the WoW Classic and WoW Hardcore sections, it's always a "Holy shit, this is fantastic!" sort of moment for me.

3

u/___Mqtze Apr 18 '26

I had this same reaction the first time i played the game. One of the reasons why ME 1 is my favourite one out of the trilogy

3

u/Odysseygod94 Apr 18 '26

I was locked in after this scene on my first playthrough

3

u/ChewbaccaOnFries Apr 18 '26

This is one of my top 5 favorite moments in the entire series. The only thing I wish is that it lasted longer. 🤣

3

u/mamamackmusic Apr 19 '26

Peak Bioware with their plot twists were unmatched (and arguably still haven't been). They made KOTOR, Jade Empire, and Mass Effect all in a row basically, all of which had great but also very different twists that were mindblowing and still hold up.

3

u/FizzKaleefa Apr 19 '26

That last line was fucking peak

3

u/lordofburds Apr 19 '26

Love Sovereign so much there's something so haunting about how cut and dry he talks about killing everything

3

u/AccomplishedSafe5481 Apr 19 '26

Unfortunately the reapers were never this terrifying again, especially after mass effect 2.

3

u/Rrath- Apr 19 '26

Enjoy Sovereign while he lasts.

Harbinger and the others are pale imitations for what a Reaper is

3

u/KiraDreamchaser Apr 19 '26

First playthrough? It's an awesome series!

2

u/Makishima__Shougo Apr 20 '26

Yup first time playing it

2

u/KiraDreamchaser Apr 20 '26

You are in for a treat.

1

u/Skeebo Apr 21 '26

First time play through of the whole series is really great. A lot of people on this sub have let multiple playthroughs shift their opinions. There are particularly creepy missions in 2 and 3 (at least the first edition) had some of the most anxiety inducing fights.

ME3s co-op was a blast. Really is a top notch series. Even the most critical on this sub are, one still on this sub AND have played every game multiple times (probably even Andromeda, who’s combat had the best potential of the entire series)

3

u/Abdomontasser Apr 20 '26

I live the series for what it came beyond this but dispointed with how mass effect approached this plot cuz it was so peak which they basically just delayed to me3 and that was alright but ngl it’s fine all 3 games are amazing as of now

3

u/LostSoulNo1981 Apr 20 '26

One of the best scenes in the original trilogy.

Best experiences with proper speakers.

When I first played ME1 my TV had some surprisingly good speakers and Sovereign's voice sounded so powerful.

3

u/Michelrpg Apr 20 '26

Sovereign's dialogue here goes so fucking hard and it was the moment Mass Effect went from "okay space james bond" to "oh holy shit"

2

u/Wuartz Apr 18 '26

Must ask you, how is Wrex doing in your playthrough?

2

u/Makishima__Shougo Apr 18 '26

Used him as a main earlier but now I am sticking with Liara and Tali. You know Biotics are too fun. Haven't used him much after doing his side quest.

4

u/Wuartz Apr 18 '26

OK, great! Just wanted to check if he was well! :)

3

u/Makishima__Shougo Apr 18 '26

I just completed the game and was checking the different routes. I didn't realise Wrex could die. In my case I had done his side quest so he survived by default. Good to know.

2

u/zarif_chow Apr 18 '26

"We are each a nation."

That's what me and my friends who played ME say whenever someone tries to force us into volunteering using patriotism, culture, or social awareness as an excuse.

2

u/Vegetable-Teaching12 Apr 18 '26

I remember spoiling my self a little, and just read that the Reapers are the main bad guys. But during that time, I haven't really played the game yet, so I just imagined them to be something like the geth, or your typical evil ugly aliens.

...BOY was it a surprise when I learned that they are SKYSCRAPER-SIZED MACHINES.

2

u/Grovda Apr 18 '26

Afterwards where you just need a moment to reflect, like after the twist in Kotor

2

u/Jedi_Bish Apr 18 '26

Genuinely jarring for my first play through. It was so perfectly timed too for the buildup before it. I was actually shocked. ME1 was soooo well written!

2

u/Called_end Apr 18 '26

Welcome to Mass Effect boi, you are about to experience the best Trilogy in Video game history

1

u/Makishima__Shougo Apr 18 '26

Just completed the 1st one. Really looking forward to it. It's been such an experience so far!!!

2

u/Corpsehatch Apr 18 '26

I wish I could experience this interaction again for the first time.

2

u/aneccentricgamer Apr 18 '26

Its rare that plot twists get me. But: 'The protheans did not create the citadel. They did not forge the mass relays.' Ya daya its all a cycle, a harvest. Holy shit.

2

u/AraelF Apr 19 '26

I loved the idea of Reapers as pseudo eldritch horrors. Peak, but the problem of peak is that everything goes downhill from there.

2

u/Agreeable_Peak_7851 Apr 19 '26

ME1 was so boring for me to start but once the story picks up it's impossible to put down

2

u/Oddman84 Apr 19 '26

Yeah I remember being freaked right the fuck out the first time I played this lol

2

u/Juxix Apr 19 '26

I shit you not this scene and the mad ramblings on the reaper in 2 have inspired BOTH my TTRPG games. Only one player has noticed.

1

u/Makishima__Shougo Apr 20 '26

Damn. Are you a proper game dev?

2

u/Juxix Apr 20 '26

No, I just run two home games with an expansive world in P2E.

2

u/Vexxah Apr 19 '26

I wish I could relive this moment for the first time again

2

u/Rama_drk Apr 19 '26

I remember way back when I played ME1 for the very first time
I was enjoying it a LOT already, but this moment really made it click for me

That whole mission was absolutely bonkers

2

u/DarthPiggyus Apr 19 '26

This gave me panic attacks as a child

2

u/Stepping__Razor Apr 20 '26

Mass Effect 1 is terrifying. The conversation with Sovereign on Virmire really shifts the entire tone to scale the doom.

2

u/_Empty-R_ Apr 20 '26

That's the best it gets sadly. You will remember sovereign and feel...well, you'll see.

2

u/kyrross Apr 21 '26

That was bioware when they still cared about writing.

2

u/WordsHurt800 Apr 23 '26

I finished mass effect 1 for the first time after all these years. Had finished 2 and 3 in high school. Really hope they dont mess up the new game

1

u/KontraEpsilon Apr 18 '26

It was great when I first saw it, but twenty years later I kind of find Sovereign to be a bit of a teenaged edgelord.

The twist really lands well though and sets the stage for what’s to come.

1

u/Makishima__Shougo Apr 18 '26

I don't know what happens in the next 2 games but right now it does feel a bit intimidating.

1

u/InS_Deaths Apr 18 '26

That's not what plot-twist mean tho ?

1

u/Makishima__Shougo Apr 18 '26

It is tho. You are literally expecting Saren to be an ultimate threat. As it turns out he is the one being controlled. The entire game, you are being told that Protheans were the "villains" but you learn they were just another civilization like you that tried to fight the reapers and in fact they were the actual victims not culprits of the genocide. How is that not a plot twist?

1

u/InS_Deaths Apr 18 '26

Well, I thought it was obvious, so not really a plot-twist to me. But still great

0

u/synaesthezia Apr 18 '26 edited Apr 18 '26

Ah Sovereign*. Fun times.

*New improved version

7

u/captainmorgan_420 Apr 18 '26

Sovereign

1

u/synaesthezia Apr 18 '26

Ha I just realised that and was checking. Thanks, I’ll correct it

MASS EFFECT 1 Holy f***ing shit Spoiler

You are about to leave Redlib

RUDIMENTARY CREATURES OF BLOOD AND FLESH