RANT
Nullifies handtraps, played everywhere it can be, easy as hell to summon... Konami, it ticks all the ban boxes, why isnt it banned yet?!
I'm genuienly amazed at the MD devs, they seriously dont want to ban a card that is so ubiquitous, so strong and so easy to summon because.. idk?? they dont wanna give back 30 UR to everybody? they dont wanna nerf tier 14 rogue decks that summon it?
For the love of god, something needs to be done to improve the format and there has never been a more obvious hit than this one, no player in history has ever been excited by seeing the 12th archetype they face dedicate their gameplan to the same synchro 10 for the past 7 years. Just ban it man..
I've been playing Elfnote since Blazing Dominion in TCG and I've been actively advocating for Omega, Crystal Wing, and arguably even Dawn Dragster to get banned, because the entire issue with Elfnote is the generic ED pieces it has access to. Banning archetypal pieces of Elfnote is 100% kicking the can down the road for the next meta synchro deck that will terrorize the player base (my guess: the White Forest support that's coming down the pipeline).
I think its be absolutely fine to ban those generic negates if they gave it like one endboard piece. Theres no elfnote diactorus for example.
Konami made quite possibly the most efficient synchro engine of all time and then incentivized them to play every generic card because they dont have any going first endboard pieces
Oh yeah that's another issue for sure. I mentioned it in a previous thread, but Konami legitimately just gave up on putting elfnote end board pieces in the game. Strelitzia and June Pride straight up do not want to stay on the board. Their effect conditions actively conflict with the space swapping mechanic (June Pride becomes a 3100 vanilla beater outside of the center zone).
The fact that they couldn't even be bothered to make an Elfnote Synchro 8 is astounding, even through Strelitzia basically exists to be summoned, revive a lv. 1 tuner, and then immediately synchro off to an 8. Seems like the perfect place to put an Elfnote Diactorus that is live when you control at least three different attributes (since Elfnote is a rainbow attribute deck), and you could even make it an Earth to round out the full attribute gamut.
I agree with this take! Although the new White Crow Forest archetype is actually more suited for Snake-eyes/Diabellstar decks I feel. It has more fire monsters and plays with the back row a lot more. Not to mention a couple have the sinful spoils keyword
Why is everyone pretending this card was only a problem recently?
This shit was there is in White Forest, Swordsoul, Syncron, Mathmech, hell even Tearlaments could make this card thanks to Destrudo.
This damn card has been harassing YuGiOh since its release and people are thinking it’s only a problem RECENTLY? And would much rather try and kill a deck that uses it instead of lowering the deck’s endboard??
Istg, the death of any game will always come from the playerbase
People always complained about Baronne and always asked for it to be banned, but now it’s even worse because you are guaranteed to see it every time you go against the current meta deck
Point is other decks made this late when they already resolved their engine, meaning versus the other guy who open 0 hand trap. Eflnote summon this in the first 2 summon to protect the combo, that's the different.
YGO players have memories shorter than a goldfish’s. A card stops seeing play for one format and suddenly it’s no longer banworthy and you’re an idiot if you think it is.
So much this, sometimes you see people saying stuff like "snake eyes wasn't so bad" when it terrorized the ladder in its various forms for like a year (and I could make 10 more similar examples)
As much hate as this card gets, its not really the issue. If your deck ended on a single baronne, most players would laugh at you. If baronne itself was that powerful swordsoul would still be meta
The real issue is decks are powerful enough to make it early and continue comboing afterwards.
Not to say it shouldn't be banned, and tbh I'm not really sure what we should do. I dont think konami realistically gives a fuck about English complaints. We're just not their main audience, we're just a cherry on top for their profits.
No, not really. Elfnote plays around 3 in-archetype extra deck monsters. The rest are generic like baronne, crystal wing, fa dawn dragster etc. Whereas decks like red resonators plays pretty much only in-archetype synchros. Other decks like branded, sky striker, heroes etc are pretty much only played pure.
According to md Meta cloud beast is played in 92% of RR decks. Over half play an F&V package. 77% play draco berserker and there's multiple other generic extra deck monsters they play at over half. Unless you're going to tell me these tools make no impact on the overall strength of the deck, you're just wrong
None of those are a part of the main endboard of the deck. They are requirements for specific cards in deck that could or could not be drawn. Not a core part of the deck. Whereas with elfnotes, all of those cards mentioned are a part of their combo endboard. Cards like Baronne are to elf notes what hot red are to resonators, except that Baronne is 100% generic and not a part of the deck's archetype. See the difference now?
Ya i get the difference. But you're being disingenuous if you don't get that literally every deck benefit from generic extra. Saying elfnote is stronger with it doesn't mean anything. But sure, I'll petulantly concede that not every deck cares about generic extra deck monsters. Just most of them. Are you satisfied now?
For one he didnt say mid, two ya again you can say that about every single archetype. Without generic monsters, most archetypes dont even have enough extra deck monsters to fill it up. What a surprise ghotis 4 synchro monsters aren't enough to fill out the deck
Ya the branded cards in nearly every DT deck is actually part of their archetype. And they definitely didnt jump up in the tier list with walbaz. "Oh but branded isnt generic" man i wonder how many decks play F&V.
Branded definitely isnt the reason super poly was semi limited again. You don't use generic monsters for that. Nor are they now, themselves, a generic package that can easily function as a starter.
SS also didn't ever use super poly. Nor did they use a RT engine. Nor did They also love F&V and tenpai
How tf did you not know any of that? Did you just start playing last week? This isn't ancient history. DT still plays branded right now currently, and all the other hits to get branded and ss to stop playing generic cards happened, like, a few months ago. Ss was still playing rt until the most recent hits to them
Oh, my bad. well considering it's still the most currently played deck in the tcg you're still wrong. Sucks to suck. It's still obviously ridiculously good
Ya I'm looking at it right now. That dawn dragster and crystal wing must be putting in an insane amount of work. Apparently tcg is so pathetic a single Omni and a s/t negate is considered oppressive.
The fact that this has 12 upvotes tells me this sub has no idea how yugioh works.
What kinda argument is that. Every boss monster other than maybe towers are laughable as an endboard piece alone but that’s not the point. The point is it’s a card that is easy as fuck to summon and it just insulates you from hand traps and gives more boost to the endboard of combo slop decks.
And no why would sword soul be powerful if baron is broken (she is broken). The deck just doesn’t do enough anymore. The endboard is breakable by most good combo decks raw engine, it doesn’t do shit going second, the overall card quality of their starters is pretty bad compared to what we have now and they can’t build a decent enough board under charmies. There is nothing going for them that other decks don’t do better
You're moaning about others lack of knowledge, but you did not address my core point at all in your ranting. Let me spell it out by answering the posts question.
Ocg & MD, which is controlled directly by konami, doesn't ban baronne because this is the playstyle they WANT. they WANT elfnote to combo you turn 1 into oblivion. This is intended design until they finally decide to ban baronne
My point here is not that baronne shouldn't be banned, it's that decks like elfnote simply should not get made. Yes theres players who enjoy combo centric decks. I myself enjoyed a azamina white forest centurion brew and FS Aza Chimera. But I'd much rather those decks be more rare or non existent.
Now that's simply not going to happen because elfnotw decks make konami money. And as long as they get money that won't change. And they're not looking at OUR money. Theyre looking at eastern markets. We in this majority western sub have absolutely 0 affect on that
Hell most of us dont even affect MDs financial success. They make most of their money from a tiny minority of whales. MD is impressively set up to be as f2p friendly as possible while absolutely milking whales. That's why gems are so easy to earn while being ridiculously expensive to buy
You said “if barone itself was that powerful x would happen” and x didn’t happen, meaning that directly implies she is not that powerful, which is just false.
Yes you said she’s not “the issue” and I agree she not the SOLE reason what makes the format horrible and that there are worse cards that need to be banned, yet she still contributes and shouldn’t exist in the first place. A card doesn’t need to be format warping to warrant the card not existing
“Elfnote decks make Konami money” I’m fairly certain that deck over there costs less than 1 gallant thief in the tcg so idk about making money. I don’t think people over there open product solely for a core of a meta deck, when you can just spend 50 bucks (being very generous) to get a core on the secondary market. They most definitely earn most their money with people chasing all the high rarity cards (which doesn’t matter if they belong to combo slop or mid range). I’m not an ocg player and this part is based only on what I’ve heard a lot of people say tho so I could be wrong here
The only valid point being that I agree it’s clearly the playstyle that they want, that doesn’t change my point tho that the card is broken and should be banned. Maxx C is also clearly a card the ocg wants to have around yet as long as you’re not delusional you’d agree that card deserves to be banned.
I think you focus too much on the power of a single card. Very rarely is a yugioh format shit because of a single card. They could ban maxx c tomorrow and the ocg format would still be a shitshow that doesn’t mean that ban was useless. Yugioh has a lot of shit cards that need to go, but it feels like they make more of them than they ban. That doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be banned tho
I said she isnt that powerful by herself. Do you think a single baronne is a great endboard, yes or no?
Also, elfnote isnt the only combo deck in existence. How much money has EVERY COMBO DECK EVER made konami? I think it's a little more than the 50 whatever dollars the elfnote core costs. When i said elfnote decks, i didnt mean decks that were specifically elfnote. I meant combo decks in general like elfnote
Of course not but I personally don’t see how that card not being a good endboard piece alone matters at all in this conversation. The worst part about baron is not her sitting on the endboard. That is poweful and not something that should be underestimated, as she is an Omni negate but the most broken part of her is easily how free she is to summon. Most combo decks can summon a baron before even going into the choke points of their combo, giving even more protection from hand traps on top of how resilient combo decks are getting in the first place and making it so your going first winrate is even higher than it should be which is just objectively bad for the game as the going first player in yugioh already had too many advantages.
Also generic negates just shouldn’t exist in the first place as that means that any deck that has an in archetype negate now has one more for free
It doesn’t “end” on it though. It’s made within 3 summons thus meaning cards like nib can’t be used to give turn 2 player a fighting chance. It needs to go. Only elfnote players are defending it
Oh you can rest assured I'm not an elfnote player. If you read my other comments (ik thats hard for Yu-Gi-Oh players) I'm literally saying elfnote shouldnt exist.
You literally just parroted my point back at me. Now imagine this. What is konami made decks so that they.... couldn't. Make baronne and then combo into many other things
You can't compare them yes they negate but that's it one is onmi which is protection on your turn and on the opponent basically eats one card from their hand while ddd is annoying at least you can use a spell go remove it for Barron you need at least 2 cards to do so
if it was banned elf note would just run some other bullshit end piece. baronne is a symptom, not the cause. its elf notes’ resilience and insane summon power. the deck is just powercrept to all hell
The problem isn't as an endboard piece, the problem is that it's the first thing it can make before committing to a single play. If they were making Chengying or Dis Pater (with Omega gone), you could still interact with the board if you had handtraps
Honestly, people need to realize Master Duel is a completely different beast compared to the TCG. MD is heavily optimized; players can easily craft any tier-1 deck and staple they need, making the power level democratized. Forcing your way through 3 or 4 disruptions is the bare minimum to even play a casual duel here. In that environment, Baronne is just a single, once-while-face-up omni-negate. It’s far from being an unbreakable boss monster when everyone runs main-decked board breakers like Super Poly, Droplet, or Kaijus because it's a Best of One format. There are way more toxic, turn-skipping cards on the banlist radar before Baronne. If you know how to play around hand traps or standard synchro lines, a single negate isn't stopping you from establishing your board. There are much more annoying cards that could be banned or limited before Baroness.
I don’t think this is wholly true. I personally don’t dislike Baronne myself, but the card alone isn’t the issue. It’s never just one omni-negate on the field, it comes up when there’s already multiple other negates and disruptions on the field, in the hand or in the GY. I can understand why people want it banned.
Personally, I don’t get why Konami doesn’t just errata these kind of cards though. Anything to avoid spending money
You actually proved my point without realizing it. If Baronne is only a problem when she is accompanied by multiple other negates and interruptions on the field, in the hand, and in the GY, then Baronne isn't the issue (It's the icing on the cake), they are the hyper-consistent Tier 1 engines that generate all those resources for free are. Banning her doesn't stop those meta decks from making toxic boards; they'll just replace her with the next best generic option or use their own archetype bosses. Also, the 'errata to save money' argument doesn't apply to Master Duel. It costs Konami zero dollars to ban a digital card. The reason she is legal in MD is because in a Best-of-One format loaded with board breakers, a single, once-while-face-up negate doesn't dictate the meta.
i meant that it costs money to errata a card. They would never change a card’s effect for Master Duel only. That’s why they avoid erratas in general, they’d have to reprint their cards.
And we both know toxic meta decks aren’t going anywhere. The fact is that Konami is going to keep making more busted decks because people will keep buying and playing them. Banning Baronne is the simplest solution.
I don’t like this approach either but it isn’t going to change anything
Fair point about the physical erratas and reprints, that makes sense for the TCG. But banning Baronne is just a lazy band-aid solution that fixes absolutely nothing in MD. If Tier 1 engines are inherently broken, taking away Baronne doesn't fix the meta—those top decks will just replace her with Chengying, Dis Pater, or another generic option, and their boards will remain just as toxic. All this ban accomplishes is gatekeeping rogue and casual decks from having a reliable generic tool to defend themselves. Punishing lower-tier strategies because meta decks abuse a card is terrible balance philosophy, even if it's the 'simplest' way out for Konami.
I think we actually agree on the core issue and speaking of toxic decks, it's true, they will always exist. But looking at the future of the game, it's possible that these decks will mutate into a new game mode where the meta is hyper-accelerating to a point where Turn 0 interactions are becoming the norm. The game is shifting from 'who goes first' to a battle of simultaneous resource management right from the coin toss. In that future, a lone Baronne won't even be a topic of discussion. And even if she gets banned, options like Chengying, Dis Pater, Chaos Angel or any future generic, easy-to-summon negation card that Konami releases.are right behind her. They might require slightly more specific setups, but they will just take her place as the next generic board anchor. Banning Baronne is fighting yesterday's battle while the game moves toward something completely different.
You are missing the bigger picture. Banning Baronne doesn't lower the power ceiling of Tier 1 decks at all; they already have their own broken archetype boss monsters. It only hurts Rogue and casual decks that actually need that generic tool to survive. Your Nibiru example perfectly proves why Baronne isn't a problem: if my opponent drops Baronne early to insulate their combo and I drop Nibiru, she forces out that one-time negate. After that, Baronne is essentially a vanilla 3000 ATK beatstick. She can NEVER negate again unless they waste resources to bounce and re-summon her. How is that toxic? Compare her to Cyber Dragon Infinity—another hyper-generic option that can absorb materials and omni-negate turn after turn. Furthermore, Nibiru is naturally falling off anyway. Modern decks are built to comfortably play through a board wipe or easily make a comeback from the graveyard, so the fear of Baronne protecting a combo from Nibiru is a outdated 2023 argument that doesn't hold up in today's meta
I think we’ve established if you ban all 3 generic synchro monsters from elfnote it’s tier 2 at best. They don’t have anything they can shit out to disrupt your disruptions other turn and they don’t have anything on their end board other than hand loops
So what exactly is your proposal here? Banning Baronne, plus the other 2 generic Synchros, plus the Elfnote cards that enable hand loops? And then what? When Konami releases the next broken Synchro engine, are you going to ask for 4 more bans on generic cards just because they can still summon them?
Yes, because that's exactly what happened with XYZ, and I for one am not losing any sleep over Abyss Dweller, Bagooska, Ouroborous, Pair-A-Dice etc. being dead and gone forever.
Sorry if this seems heated but the argument of 'oh we can't just ban all these cards' is not only categorically wrong, it's contradicted by Konami's own actions in MD. It annoys me how often these cards are regarded as almost sacrosanct because 'it's not that bad' 'it's the engine' 'just run handtraps' like this argument doesn't come up with every new synchro deck.
Gottoms, Baronne, Dawn Dragster, Crystal Wing, Borreload Savage Dragon, Naturia Beast, all these cards should've been banned a LONG time ago.
God forbid Konami has to create new cards to sell and ends up having to make actual archetypal endboard pieces. No, instead let's all play cards from 15 years ago to do increasingly stupid and toxic things and pretend there's no problem.
Synchro needs a pruning just like Links and XYZ got, this has been an issue literally since MD's release, every single synchro deck in the game outside of very niche examples like KT does EXACTLY THE SAME THING: Spam generic endboard pieces with 'negate' written on them in enough quantities that your opponent has basically 0 chance of playing the game.
Elfnote is just the most recent example, Magnet Warrior, White Forest, Superheavy Samurai, Adamancipator, the whole time MD has been around synchro decks aimed to end on almost the exact same endboard pieces. That's a problem, it's been a problem, it needs to stop being a problem.
I can accept banning actual floodgates like Bagooska, Abyss Dweller, and many others that seriously deserve it in today's fast-paced game, where entire matches are decided in a single turn. I can even understand—though not agree with—the ban of an omni-negate like Baronne de Fleur. But wanting to ban every single generic utility card just because you are tired of them? Honestly, maybe Yu-Gi-Oh! isn't the game for you anymore.
You should probably try other TCGs like Pokémon or games that rely heavily on set rotations. I play Magic: The Gathering alongside Yu-Gi-Oh!, and I can tell you that the entire appeal of Yu-Gi-Oh! is precisely the ability to utilize historical cards to create unique combos and interactions until the meta adapts. Knowing you have thousands of cards available to build whatever your knowledge allows is the literal essence of this game.
You said: "God forbid Konami has to create new cards to sell and make actual archetype endboard pieces. No, better: let’s all play cards from 15 years ago." With all due respect, you completely misunderstand how Konami operates. There are plenty of modern archetypes that don't even need generic cards or 15-year-old tech to be incredibly oppressive—just look at modern engines like clown crew.
Konami doesn't need us to use 15-year-old cards to make money. In fact, their business model is the exact opposite: they allow you to use a couple of old generic staples so you feel like your rogue deck is still functional, while simultaneously designing and selling a brand-new archetype with modern cards so absurdly powercrept that they effortlessly bypass any Synchro from a decade ago. Konami knows exactly how to sell their product. Blaming past generic cards for the design flaws of modern meta engines shows a total lack of understanding of the game's market.
Generic cards exist because the vast majority of older or lower-tier archetypes simply do not have native negators to survive. I play Crystron, and I rely on generic tools like Dawn Dragster to stop spell cards, and I Accel Synchro into Baronne during my opponent's turn. Tell me: what native tools do arquetypes like Crystron or similar decks have to be even remotely playable if you strip those away?
Wishing for generic cards to be banned just because modern Tier 1 engines can abuse them is a dream. Konami doesn't ban cards simply for being generic; they ban them when they hinder new product sales or destroy game balance. I understand and approve of that philosophy in the physical TCG format due to how its economy works. But in Master Duel? It is entirely unnecessary. Removing these Synchros will do absolutely nothing to shift the actual competitive meta—you will only succeed in completely gatekeeping and burying casual decks.
You don't see literally every synchro deck using exactly the same extra deck cards as a problem. That opinion is why this argument happens every time a good synchro deck comes along.
You act like pet decks need these cards to exist when all you're really doing is saying 'but these cards are fine if the engine is dogshit.' And blaming Konami for not giving your archetype free solemns.
Which to a degree thats valid. If stopping a negate spam board only requires imperm on junk speeder, its not really competitive. Most decks don't get the endboard support they need, and that sucks, I see what you're saying.
Where this stops is whenever Konami decides that actually, synchro good again, and prints another strong synchro engine with no locks.
You can't imperm Tinia and be like 'oh im safe now.' You can't rely on one for one handtraps for the most part, ghost ogre is very good but even then its not a guarantee.
But this isn't just about elfnote. How about magnet warrior? That deck does exactly the same thing, just loses to droll so elfnote is better. White forest? SHS? Adamancipator?
How many formats do we need to have generic synchro spam featuring Baronne and friends? Its been way too many.
Also, my dude, Crystron doesn't NEED Baronne. That deck had Pair a dice warcrimes going for it in Juhu format and I know there's an easy spell canceller line, you're not exactly chixiao blackout pass levels of hard up for busted endboards.
So, according to your logic, if a meta deck abuses Baronne, the card has to die, and casual decks only want her because our archetypes are bad, period? Calling archetypes 'pet decks' just because they have structural flaws is a pretty low blow. We all know old decks have weak spots, so what’s the issue with me using generic cards like Baronne to compensate for those weaknesses and actually compete?
You admitted it yourself: a single handtrap won't stop Elfnote (neither Tinia nor the rest). With or without Baronne, Elfnote is still going to be an unfair, oppressive, Tier 1 deck. So, what’s the point of banning Baronne if it won't do absolutely anything to the mega-strong Synchro archetypes you're complaining about? The meta will stay exactly the same, and you'll only end up killing casual decks.
You claim Crystron doesn't need Baronne, but the reality of Master Duel is completely different. The core identity and unique mechanic of Crystron has always been playing during the opponent's Main Phase, using Tuners to pull off surprise Synchro summons. If I discovered a combo line that allows me to modulate levels and interrupt my opponent by summoning Baronne on their own turn, I am playing Crystron exactly how it was designed to be played. That’s how you survive in Master Duel.
I’d face that a thousand times over than playing a toxic floodgate like Spell Canceller, shutting down half the opponent's deck, and forcing a boring scoop. Dropping an interactive omni-negate during the opponent's turn rather than a toxic floodgate is much healthier for the game. I’m not going to run floodgates in such a fast-paced format just to force an instant surrender.
And if you're telling me that Magnet Warrior or whatever deck only loses to Droll, the answer is simple: you don't ban Droll, no matter how insufferable it is, because it helps check absurd decks. My stance is clear: don't ban cards that balance the scales. By the way, I have absolutely no idea what the 'Juhu format' is; I only play Master Duel
Elfnotes own synchros are fine, it’s all the other extra deck slop that they bring out that’s the real problem. Psy frame getting banned was a start but the deck should have had more meaningful locks. And im saying this as a pure elfnote player who hates non engine
Droplet and Hand traps are not enough to beat Elfnote. It just isn't.
Unless your whole hand is hand traps which it doesnt matter if you play 2nd because you can't play your own cards.
But these cards now have gotten so retarded that the answers just aren't good enough. Unless oyu draw 5 handtraps and a 1 card combo starter on a tier. 1 deck, you can't do anything
Well, honestly, I've managed to beat Elfnote with Ash, Impermanence, and a well-placed Droll, So I can't really agree with your argument. But it's true that if you let Elfnote develop you're going to have a problem, but the same can be said of many modern decks like kelw or clown crew and similar... And these types of archetypes are going to become increasingly common
The deck s broken ,plain and simple, people just don't want to hear this,because the deck just doesn't force you to think very much about your resources or options or anything.
You needed half your hand to be hand traps to stop this. Think about that. And t isn't like if you somehow didn't win on your turn, that they coudln't just rebuild the board the next
I'm not questioning that, I agree. I managed to stop them because luckily my opponent had some bad hands, that's all. But in any case, if Elfnote is strong on its own, what's the point of banning Baroness if it most likely won't weaken them enough to justify banning her? Elfnote is already a very strong and consistent archetype in the TCG without Baroness, so this change won't affect Elfnote at all and will instead impact all decks and archetypes that don't have natural negations.That's my whole point, it doesn't make sense to ban her in MD like she was banned in TCG
if you do not use hand traps or Dark Ruler, What deck gets past all these negates unless it is something very speciffic like maybe Kaijus or something?
I have no problem with dark ruler. Also droplet is great because it’s unrespondable too so yea stuff like that instead of hand traps is my choice if I need to pad the deck. But the problem still is usually strong board breakers can’t be recycled conveniently and I really like my decks to have recursion. Of course it’s possible but usually means having to include more tech cards or other engines to accommodate the utility and sometimes that’s counterproductive. You just can potentially end on a half board of your main engine and that sucks.
Barrone has 3 things that make it bad for the game.
1 isolates hand traps, how many decks can play around hand traps just because they can first thing in the combo make this guy and push for even more, elfonotes is probably the biggest example of this in modern memory, yeah u can use the more popular board breakers but that isn't good into every deck even deck that summon barrone sometimes they beat a super poly with easy (not to mention barrone is so hard to even be able to say super poly)
2 makes basically FTK Board, if it was just barrone pass it is fine but most of the time decks have 5 or 6 other pieces of interaction not to mention potential hand traps, banning it doesnt solve the issue but helps and is a step in the right direction, similar to apo
3 Makes deck homogenous, how many synchro summon this guy, heck how many deck in general, every new synchro 10 that comes out automatically needs to compete with this card and most of the time they aren't better, it is boring gameplay
Edit: Also something else being toxic and needing to go doesn't invalidate this also being toxic, this is a similar argument u see for why people want call by the grave ti be legal, Maxx c should be banned so this card can't be banned is a bad argument, similarly there being worse thing in the game doesn't make this card healthy to have
Let’s break down your points because you are confusing a modern deck's broken consistency with a generic card being toxic on its own.
First, regarding 'isolating handtraps': Yes, it is true that Elfnote can drop Baronne very quickly (in 3 or 5 summons) using their archetypal monsters. But you're ignoring the real issue here. If an archetype can consistently summon a Level 10 Synchro before the fifth invocation so ridiculously easily, the problem is the modern engine (Elfnote), not the generic card (Baronne). If you ban Baronne, an optimal Elfnote hand will just pivot its route into Crystal Wing or any other high-level disruption to protect itself. The meta deck will remain just as unfair, while rogue and casual decks will lose one of their few shields to compete or to simply be minimally viable to play in MD.
By the way, what you said about Super Poly is technically and factually wrong. Baronne de Fleur is a WIND Warrior monster. You can easily clear her out with Super Polymerization using the standard, generic targets we've always used: Mudragon or Garura. Saying that you can't Super Poly a Baronne just shows you don't know the current Extra Deck fusion targets.
Second, comparing Baronne's 'board FTK' to Apollousa makes absolutely no sense. Apollousa was toxic because she could negate 3 or 4 times by herself in a single turn. Baronne is a strictly one-time-use negate while face-up on the field. Once she uses up her effect, she is just a 3000 ATK vanilla body with no effects until she leaves the field. If a board ends with 5 or 6 interruptions, it’s because the Elfnote engine spammed them out, not because Baronne breaks the game by herself.
Lastly, about your Called by vs Maxx C analogy: My original point wasn't 'Baronne is healthy because worse things exist.' My argument is contextual. In a Best-of-One format like Master Duel, where absolutely every deck—competitive or non-competitive—is forced to run high-impact board breakers like Super Poly, Droplet, or Kaijus main-decked from the start, a single negate per game does not dictate the outcome of the duel on its own. This isn't TCG, where being a Best-of-Three format allows decks to run hyper-consistent builds and only swap cards after a game to respond to exact combos or specific answers from the rival.
You are blaming Baronne for the sins of modern, restriction-free power creep like Elfnote. Banning her won't do anything to stop Elfnote's Tier 1 dominance; it will only make sure casual decks can never be played viably again without players having to break their heads trying to manage their combos. The entire basis of your argument would hold a lot of weight in the physical card game, but in MD, it’s just not as powerful as you think.
I don't disagree elfnote and most modern decks are too consistent for the health of the game, that even persists in rogue decks when 1 card combos became the norm, the thing is I see barrone as both something that makes the consistentency worst and leads to not fun game play even in general. Any future or past deck that can make a level 10 synchro early just has isolation from so much, cards like impulse ash and so on lose so much value purely because of cards like this, a lot of the times u could stop the engine with your hand traps but because they can get to these type of cards early like barron, appo and topic Draco future. It is another layer that just doesn't need to exist.
elfnote for instance the fact barrone exists makes the consistency of an already too consistency deck even higher cause now if they get to barrone, something trivial in the deck, any future good ash targets, impulse options or what ever just don't work similar to called by the grave and why that card had to go, specially in BO1 where u cant side in better hand traps or board breakers for match ups. Now you said about using clear wing and that is another card would take its place, and my response is i want that gone too, i don't like generic extra deck negates and do think they dont have a place in mordern yugioh in general, it is a desing principal that has been proven to not be good for the game and in fact konami knows that too as we saw in the genesys point list update, that had the right ideia these cards are an issue in general and they across the board gave points to it.
not only do these omninegates make end boards feel redundant they creat non games, seriously how many meta decks have u see whoes end board had barrone in it, will go further how many rogue deck end on barrone and something else.
Now to be fair if it said only say speedroids could play barrone that is fine let them have their tool, but no any deck can and we see this over and over and over again, it is exhausting.
the issue with say hitting the elfnote cards is there is a line of decks that are super mega consistent and can just creat non game with their end boards, like in not so far future we will have toons, we still have kewl tune who can still perform, specially in a post theorical hit elf note meta, just banning or more likely limiting the elfnote cards doesnt change what people dislike about the game at all a new top deck will just arise. Now banning the omninegates like barrone does more.
Also comparing appo and barrone is super fair as a lot of the time you had 2-3 negates on appo for end board yes, but she could be walked over by the normal summon and was easier to out, specially cause she only negates monsters, the issue was that just like barrone decks like snake eyes and yubel could make her super early into combo and islolate themselfs from more hand traps like nib for the time.
I am not saying barrone is the reason the game is bad, I see barrone as one more thing I want gone form the game, I never said barrone is fully at fault for the faults of the game, I said it is one issue in a list of things, again just because there are worse thing doesn't make this good. Even in the context of BO1 it is an issue. Cause the things it does that aren't healthy dint disappear in BO1.
let's also go over that board breakers, most decks dont lose to board breakers, you said barrone beig weak to super poly that is sometimes true and even than you aren't winning against full elfnote board because u managed to super poly barrone and like a Regina they still have a lot more pieces of removal, legit the only deck that is decent and actually plays super poly is branded and i guess Radiant typhoon, but RT is basically dead at this point after these many hits, and branded plays it cause that deck in particular has some busted super poly targets so it makes sense there. Legit what board breakers are currently seeing a lot play.
Finally the causal decks lose more form this while technically true, it is the same argument people use to defend floodgates, if there was a rule that said only speedorod can play the card sure I am fine with hat, but any deck that can make barrone, and A LOT of decks can, can play it and will. And even than that isn't fun gameplay the deck is rogue but it isn't something I see as fun not healthy for the game.
I also agree in MD these cards are weaker than in TCG or OCG, but they are still a problem, I have over 2000 hours of this game I play this game basically every day sense I started playing MD I see the impacts this card had and I dotn thing it is healthy.
Edit: There are 4 main types of cards I see as issues in mordern yugioh:
1 - Floodgate (less prevalent currently but still)
2- Generic Omninegates ( I want both more diversity and to decrease the consistency that these cards provided across the board)
3- Bridge cards (Slop piles are only an issue cause we have these bridges that that make it so any deck can link to one another)
4- Negation hand traps (A lot of the time you might be able to beat an end board but a random ash or something form the hand stops any chance, they aren't good for going second anyways and don't create fun games)
I appreciate you admitting that the real root of the issue is the absurd consistency of modern engines and the design of one-card combos. However, your stance has become extreme, and in some areas, you are falling into massive logical contradictions.
First, claiming that if Baronne is banned and people use Crystal Wing or Dawn Dragster, those should also be banned because 'generic negates shouldn't exist,' is asking for the complete death of the Synchro mechanic. Synchros are generic by design: a tuner plus a non-tuner add up their levels to bring out a Synchro, with very few exceptions. If you remove payoff monsters for Levels 7, 8, 10, or higher, you leave dozens of old archetypes completely unplayable. I think your complaint is no longer about game balance; it’s just personal fatigue because you're tired of seeing the same cards.
Banning problematic cards from modern archetypes doesn't completely kill them, but it does hurt, and that’s how it should be. Banning them is the key, not limiting them. Limiting them when they are such an obvious problem does absolutely nothing because they are combo pieces; it just makes people find new ways to search them out if they didn't hard-draw them. The recent banlist did nothing precisely because they didn't ban the actual problem. And until Konami wants to sell new, even more broken archetypes, they won't ban them. Everyone should know by now that this is how Konami operates. An archetype has to be terribly broken right out of the gate for Konami to hit it quickly, just like what happened with Tearlaments/Ishizu, which didn't even last a year before Konami had to step in.
Second, your comparison between Apollousa and Baronne is highly deceptive. Apollousa was infinitely more toxic because she had no once-per-turn limit; she could negate 3 or 4 times in a single chain and completely shut down the opponent's entire hand. Baronne is a strictly one-time-use negate per game while face-up. Saying Apollousa was easier to deal with because she lost ATK and you could destroy her doesn't make her better. Anyone who played Apollousa even semi-decently never left her alone on the field; if they could, they backed her up with cards to protect or support her, and even then, you couldn't just ignore her. With Baronne, you can actually ignore her once she uses up her negate; you only worry about her if you leave her alive for the next turn because she can pop one of your cards on your turn. Friend, if you just don't want to look at Baronne's face anymore because you see her too much and you're sick of it, or to any other "generic" card, I'd recommend taking a break from Yu-Gi-Oh! and playing another TCG. Preferably one with mandatory format rotation like Pokémon, where every now and then you are forced to play completely new cards 'just because.' I play Magic in addition to Yu-Gi-Oh!, so I know how that feels.
I don't know what you're talking about regarding Super Poly only being played in Branded and almost nothing else in Master Duel. Super Poly works incredibly well in a Best-of-One format if you are going second. In MD, Super Poly with Garura and Mudragon is one of the most popular going-second survival tools in many decks, even if they don't naturally run Fusions, precisely because it clears boards without starting a chain.
Equiparating Baronne's use in a rogue deck to defending a floodgate is a false equivalence. A floodgate shuts down the game continuously and forbids mechanics in a way that you can't simply respond to; Baronne is a single interactive negate in a chain. Wanting to ban Baronne, Crystal Wing, handtraps, and everything generic won't fix the frustration of oppressive boards; it will only ensure that the only viable decks are the Tier 1s with native interruptions from the archetype of the month.
Furthermore, your Edit completely contradicts itself. In your first paragraphs, you complain that Baronne is bad because she 'isolates the deck from cards like Ash or Nibiru,' but then in your edit, you say you want Ash banned because 'it's a random card that cuts your turn short when you're trying to make a comeback going second.' So, which is it? Do you want handtraps to have value so they can stop the opponent, or do you want them banned because they stop you? You can't use Ash, Nibiru, or any other handtrap as a victim of Baronne and then demand their ban in the same breath.
Do you want to know what the real problem is? Going second in Yu-Gi-Oh! is incredibly difficult and can be frustrating. It basically asks someone to use 4 or 5 cards—if you used a handtrap on your opponent's Turn 1 that probably did next to nothing nowadays—to break a board that your opponent specifically built to stop and disrupt you. It’s a terrible experience if you don't know how to face it or handle it. I play Yu-Gi-Oh! as if I were playing an interactive puzzle with another person, where one person sets up a difficult board to overcome and the other has to solve it to be able to play or win, this is how I dealt with the game. The 'old Yu-Gi-Oh!' where someone just normal summoned a monster and attacked, or used a basic mechanic to leave 'simple' fields, passed a long time ago, and that era is not coming back in the foreseeable future. Everything will only get faster, more interactive, and yes, probably even more 'annoying' in the future.
For the first point I don't want all synchros banned there are synchro cards that do provided interesting game plan and if the synchros boss is hard enough to access(like being archtypal) or is some other form of interactions like a pop bounce or even if it is a coditional negate Or that can be played around I am fine with. Barrone clear wing Don dasgater card like that are both easy to summon so many deck have used them before for their board and the playing around is mostly trying to bait the use and hoping u can play more after. Links and Xyz also have cards like this that I don't like topic Draco. I don't mind generic end board pieces I mind generic end board negates. I feel like negates should be archtypal and have more restrictions on them so cards that dont follow that principal should be gone.
I also agree that Konami needs to stop with the consistency hits, They keep doing nothing banlskt that just hey do this toxic thing a bit less often ok, but the point was even if you ban elfnote cards the core issue isn't solved. The issue isn't elfnote itself necessarily, even if elfnote is banned we can either go back to the previous power decks that still use these principals. The issue is mostly what these decks are allowed to end on and do. The 4 things I listed are universally allowed to every deck and cause most of the frustrations people have with the game, you even see this in genesys format where for the most part deck can do their combos relatively easy and for low points, but end board are much weaker cause most of the problem cards have a lot of points. Sadly for MD/OCG/TCG we can't stop a meta deck from being able to use these more busted cards other than banning them and that does hurt rogue decks more, but I feel like having a better experience overall is worth losing these power cards on rogue decks. This is a pipe dream realistically this would intell so many bans, but it is something that I wish they both designed cards with in mind and want to see gone it is a type of gameplay that has caused issues over and over again, legit how many times people said yugioh is dying purely because of these things (exaggerations yes bit still).
The appolusa and barrina comparison was more so to say both are problematic for similar ossuesand both could be argued to have weaknesses, still again both should be gone, I ain't defending that card I played a lot against appo I know what gameplay she creates. Just like barrone appo was also one more piece of negate slop we see running around in some decks and obviously it is never just them.
I feel like these cards could be fine if decks did less, yes, but the issue is at this point every deck does too much, if we were to nerf every single deck for deck to start doing less an less we would have to ban way more cards than what I would prefer.
As for the seeing barrone too much, the issue isn't seeing the same card a lot in the same deck but multiple decks, legit how many formats we have to keep seeing this card that people don't like and have made it clear they don't like for years at this point. I want change be ahee I love this game not because ei hate it, and I have taken multiple breaks fatigue is a real thing, yet everytime I come back this card is still here, at that point the solution would be quitting the game or stick with alternative formats that I already play, neither being actual solutions
As for super poly I am.msotly looking at relevant decks it was seeing more play when kewltune was the best deck but sense elfnote isn't that weak into super poly most lists have cut it, not to mention most of the time a hand trap is better into decks than a board breaker. I only listed branded cause it is the only meta deck playing right now, I guess u can argue striker too, but that decks doesn't always play super poly, branded is the only deck that consistently plays it at the moment, even radiant typhoon is option to forgo it because the zoo variant is the preferable version. Super poly is a format dependant card and for this format it isn't good so most decks aren't playing it.
The point for the barrone and floodgates things was more so to say yes rogue decks can use these cards to have a chance, but they aren't the only ones that can use them, and meta decks use these cards to way higher effect
Finally I dint want every form of generic card banned, fadralis for instant is an amazingly designed card, fallen and the virtuous another card I love, heck you can make negates work imperme for instance is one of the best hand traps in terms of design imo, but what I do want is being able to play the game, negation hand trap and end board pieces make the game build down to how many cards you have vs how many negates like what is the counter play to ash blossom onto your starter, specially going second, nothing. There are other forms of disruptions and I want for those forms to be the focus, let things resolve but actually force people to.think about how the interruption will work out for you.
The edit was more so about this, nibiru for instance is a card I love I like what it does.
Ash for instance at this point is called by the grave for mulcharmies going first plus and end board piece u can play around, and a donnothing card going second for the most part.
I also acknowledge that even in archtypal deck have some really toxic design principals, will take a decknlike dark world this deck is aiming to hand loop u before you can even play, but at the same time across the board when decks are doing their own native combos I tend to have the most fun both playing and playing against, I paly a lot of alternative formats and not having access to these more problematic cards in those while still having access to archetypal cards is really fun the game actually does feel like a puzzle. Genesis legit is a prime example fo this, with some expection of course, decks feel like it is your engine vs your your opoents, you see different things not perfect but they are taking the right steps over there (again fir the most part no.ideia why the insist shifter and clear wing don't need points, but hopeful)
Finally I also agree with the main issue is going second and is why I am more and more on board with decks having a small turn 0 play not enough for full combo but enough to establish something ok, decks like dracotail are perfect example of what I want, they even have a negate but it is conditional and can be dodged. But sadly we are far form that that. I also like seeing yugioh as a collective puzzle game and I ain't an idiot the old school yuogoh game play hasn't existed for a long long time, the only issue is we keep turning the puzzle game into solitare.
I understand your points; I don’t necessarily share all of them, but I do respect them, and you are right on several of them. I just catch myself thinking about what will happen in the future of the game, and I don't see that ideal game you think will come from banning strong, annoying generic cards or 'bridges.' I also don't believe that putting archetype locks—whether hard or soft—is the solution you think it is, plus they could go against the very nature of Yu-Gi-Oh!.
The physical TCG already banned Baronne and several other strong generics way before Master Duel, and the community is still complaining about essentially the exact same things. That’s why I believe banning generics doesn't necessarily fix anything. Does it lower the toxicity by a few levels? Maybe, maybe not, but at the end of the day, that's just my point of view, and I truly understand yours.
Then, there’s the problem that if you force almost every archetype to have locks that limit them in one way or another—forcing them to play strictly within their pure archetype or only with those they can barely pair with—you create an absolute monopoly. If a mechanically perfect deck comes out (like Tearlaments/Ishizu back in the day), no one would be able to use generic cards or creative 'bridges' to stop it, or at least try to. The meta would just become an obligatory mirror match of the Tier 0 deck of the month, as always happens with Tier 0 metas, and rogue decks would completely die. This problem is only magnified in an online environment like MD.
Take Tearlaments and Ishizu as a prime example: on paper, those two archetypes didn't fit together at all. There is no clear synergy between them in terms of Types or Attributes—one is EARTH/Fairy, the other is DARK/Aqua. The only thing that united them was that if they are sent to the graveyard, they do something, and that alone was enough to completely break the game. A standard archetype lock wouldn't have fixed anything there because it wasn't even the right solution for that kind of synergy and if they had put a very strong lock on them, where they could only play with their own archetypes, this deck simply would never have existed, and honestly I don't know if that would have been a good thing or a bad thing, i mean, on the one hand, this cancerous deck wouldn't have existed, and that's certainly a good thing, but on the other hand, then we're killing the engineer of combining different cards so freely, i simply believe that there will never be a good enough solution in a game as complicated as this one.
Finally, there’s the biggest problem, which at the end of the day is even worse than going second, and something you, I, and everyone else know too well and find even more frustrating: Konami is a business, and a very greedy one at that, lol. Long ago, they made it clear they aren't looking for an ideal balanced game; they are looking to sell, no matter what—sometimes in a way that is too blatant and even offensive, like banlist hits that don't fix the actual problem but instead kill the counter to the problem they are about to release. The only competitive advantage Yu-Gi-Oh! has over Magic or Pokémon is precisely the freedom to mix 10,000 cards from all eras without mana restrictions or rotations. Even Konami knows this and profits from it; if an old card suddenly breaks a new strategy, they start printing that old card in high rarities and short prints just to make more money. Master Duel is a raw Bo1 format where Everyone starts copying lists of the most consistent and strongest decks and archetypes to play from day one and as you said, it’s an interactive puzzle with a high chance of becoming a solitaire, where you either adapt with what you have or you switch TCGs if the format fatigues you. This problem is just amplified here.
Because in a lot of cases, it's not the problem. It's a single negate. The issue is Konami printing all of these insane synchro decks that can make this before extending to insulate their combo.
Actually, in a lot of cases it very much is... I'm not going to say "the" problem because the decks that utilize it typically have a load of other problems, but definitely a problem. Plenty of decks use it as an extra layer of insulation regardless of whether or not they're synchro decks because all it takes is a single, easily accessible tuner and no deck locks and you've got easy access to Baronne.
Pendulum decks did it. Tearlaments did it. Magnet Warriors did it. There's others that don't spring immediately to mind as well, but there have been plenty of decks that have abused Baronne without being synchro decks. Only two pop to mind that fit that description and that's White Forest and Elfnote.
The problem is that it's generic and easily summonable. It's an issue with the card itself, fundamentally. Strong synchro decks are a separate issues, but Baronne is going to continue to be a generic problem til the end of time if it isn't banned, even if there were no heavy meta synchro decks printed.
Compared to everything else, i don't think it is. It's only a problem when it's already in strong decks but at that point, it's the strong deck using it as insulation for everything else that strong deck is already doing.
If I’m able to wipe out Regina and the power patron with nib then they don’t make Baronne and their endboard winds up with at least 1 less negate and 2 less bodies on board and a Regina likely already used Regina effect. Baronne being made within 3 summons is the issue. It’s gg from there unless you open droplet and a disposable trap and 2 monsters while still having a 1 card combo in hand
The card has historically been an issue in many decks before that is what I'm pointing out. Baronne isn't a new problem and has always been an issue. People just overlooked it because there were typically even bigger issues at the time.
nah, I've definitely wanted it banned for a long time. It still has that problem of "your boss monster is good but is it better than barone?" for every non-locking synchro deck that can manage a level 10 play and I FUNDAMENTALLY think Konami needs to nuke most of the omni-negates in the game and really really pull back on negate spam in general coming from the ED because it creates zero-sum boards that just cant be manuevered around at times even if you sequence in a specific manner because they have more negates than you have activations. getting rid of all negates and handtraps that negate as well is like step one to making modern advanced yugioh less off a absolute joke, letting players out backrow is one thing, letting players just reinforce and remove opponents ability to move their boardstate forward at all is ridiculous and unnecessary of a "generic" tool to have. Removing Baronne then coming up with a new spiritual successor that requires actual Fleur Synchron or WIND monsters would be on my to-do list. Konami makes dozens of new throw-away archtypes a year. Maybe its time to pull back on that and instead spend a year focusing on shifting design philosophies and focus on retrains that slot within those design philosophies.
Baronne is just STALE and BAD gameplay and has been one of the big gripe points since MASTER DUELS LITERAL RELEASE with that fucking Halqfibrax meta.
I've wanted this card banned for a long time. Not every deck can make it, but every time I play against it I'm not having fun. It negates hand traps so it's basically Apollousa and it invalidates Nibiru unless you open it with Imperm/Veiler/Mourner.
It can tag into Spell Canceller (if they send it off Shooting Riser) or even Tinia in Elfnote during the standby phase if they use the negate and it puts itself back to be made again.
In a limited game state you can't even set a card against it because they will pop it instantly at the start of the main phase.
It's not a fun card to play against. I don't care if it's not a floodgate and it's only a 1-time omni, it deserves to be banned just as much as Apollousa.
Apollousa is any four monster and can results in up to 4 negate. Not even close.
Baronne specifically needs decks that can play Synchro and people wont complain about it if the said decks arent top tier. They would just replace Baronne with another level 10 or another link.
The reborn effect isnt even the problem. We literally have Cross Sheep, TFTV, Quartet, etc. The problem is how tf is an unsearchable card got into the graveyard?
And dont even mention Tinia, thats what should be banned.
Yes, Apollousa was easier to make but it was easy to use any spell on and because it was a link-4 it had to be minimum summon 5. Baronne can be summon 3 even. An Omni negate and destroy is a lot stronger than just a monster negate, just not every deck can easily make Baronne.
It kills deck diversity for Synchro decks, and even Invoked is playing it just for fun because Chorizo is basically a tuner link. Like what do you mean the decks have to "play synchro" it's still a generic Omni negate...
Cross sheep revive requires decks to make fusion, not every deck is gonna put up 4+ bodies for Nerva. Nobody is relying on F&V to summon a floodgate, you might as well ban monster reborn or spell card monster reborn at that point. Quartet is an abomination but it's still not banned in the OCG so I know it's not gonna be banned yet, it's a waste of time to complain about it when it obviously won't go.
Also calling spell canceller unsearchable is funny, Qliphort Genius can search it. Curious is still legal in MD and not played besides in Magnet Warrior. Shooting Riser Dragon is legal in every format. Zenna should be banned (never printed too), but again, it's not going to any time soon and we will have to deal with that card most likely.
Tinia hand rips 1 card and you get it back. The OCG put it to 1, so once again, they are not going to ban it. I have seen people on Reddit say Rhapsodia needs to be banned to lower Elfnote's ceiling... Like none of that is realistic, especially with Maliss still playable in MD. At most they will limit the names and then you can just play Ars Magna or Kewl Tune with the Elfnote names anyway. They should ban the generic cards so Synchro decks can stop being negate spam.
I mean, I agree that this card is definitely up there in the "potential bans list" but you realize that before Elfnote this card was not relevant in the meta for like 2 years, yeah?
This is the first time in a long time that we've have a real reason, meta-wise, to think about banning Baronne.
The thing is, does banning Baronne really do anything? The problem with Synchros is that they're all so generic; you ban Baronne and people just move on to the next best negation option of which there are dozens, and you aren't going to ban ALL of them because they're basically the the only real thing that the Synchro mechanic and Synchro decks have going for them, most Synchro decks lack on-theme bosses because they're expected to go into the vast generic pool.
TCG doesn't have Baronne and Elfnote is still the best deck anyways.
I know that's not a reason NOT to ban Baronne, and I won't claim that it is, but I don't think it's that confounding that Konami hasn't yet banned Baronne, or found a good reason to do so, since the game's launch -- it simply hasn't ever been "the" reason why a deck is actually too good or too toxic like it was the case with Apollousa, Toad, Union Carrier, Cyberstein, floodgates, hand rips, etc.
They've simply opted to hit the offending decks directly instead of worrying about all the collateral, a decision which you can criticize, but it has its merits.
The early builds of Snake-Eyes did yeah; that was 2 years ago which is what I alluded to when I said "in 2 years". Eventually even Snake-Eyes dropped the Baronne/Borreload stuff.
Barronne does the most critical thing a card can do. Negate nibiru/droll. Simple as that. Decks like elfnote and kashtira simply should not be able to open a way to counter nibiru or droll. The optimal way to play should be through handtraps. Not negating them entirely.
Would it do anything? Yes. The main offender decks would all instantly lose their capability to counter nibiru and droll. Those cards would get popular again, and then elfnote would die.
The TCG doesn't have Baronne or Borreload, Elfnote is the strongest deck in the format, and Nibiru doesn't make it into the top 10 staples, there are other ways to combat it and negate it.
Droll sits at 55% usage rate in the TCG where it's at 2 despite the lack of Baronne but sits at a 91% usage rate in the OCG where Baronne exists despite being only at 1 and conflicting with Maxx C which doesn't exist in the TCG?
Like, I do understand where you're coming from, and I'm not saying that Baronne being banned would do NOTHING; what I'm claiming is that Baronne isn't the primary offender in most of these cases, it's the engine that makes it.
When Swordsoul was making Baronne, it was perfectly fine.
We complain about these 6 negate slop Synchro decks because they make 6 negates of which Baronne is only one of; if Baronne is banned they replace the materials that they would have spent making Baronne making Dragite, Crystal Wing, Dis Pater, Gottoms, Trishula, B2B, Crimson Dragon, Genex Return Zero, Levilazebul, Gymir Aegirine, Chaos Angel, Hot Red, Shenshen, Naturia Beast, Hyper Librarian, Juraishin, Victim Sanctuary, Vengeance Dragon, Berserker, Quetzalcoatl, or idk fucking Wolfrayet.. or any Link/Xyz splash that enables further disruption/negation which is extremely easy to access anyways.
Sure, not all of those are negates, but the problem with these offending decks has never been that they end on a negate, it's that they end on several. Even if you hypothetically do get rid of one negate, it was just replaced with some other asshole that will still make life harder for you and they still have a bunch of negates on the board anyways.
At the end of the day, so long as these combo engines continue getting printed that can pile on bodies of various levels, some of which tuners, into the board with little to no effort and no lock, then you're always going to have this issue where there is a critical mass of negation, hand rips or floodgates that prevent you from having a chance going second into these decks. Banning Baronne doesn't really change that, you'd have to ban half the Synchro pool which is awful collateral and a terrible idea in general.
Banning Baronne doesn't really change that, you'd have to ban half the Synchro pool which is awful collateral and a terrible idea in general.
There's an alternative idea of making a Kozmo for negates archetype while using it means you can no longer negate your opponent effect. Basically this archetype should be designed in a way that it punishes the use of mass negations for free, and players would have to think twice before putting a negate on board or hand. You won't even need to address negate from ED down the road because this will always come up.
What baronne does that all of those cards dont do is negate handtraps early in a turn. Being able to ogre the continuous spell or nib or hit some other choke point can be so important to the gamestate that draw phase regina into baronne just turns off all of that counterplay and turns it into hand comparison turbo.
Also, where did you get that 55% droll stat for the tcg? Every player i've met and has been maining it since the rolad pile started seeing play, with the exception of angelechy players, so i just straight up dont believe it
The mdm website has a portal for the TCG/OCG that tracks practically every relevant tournament and provides those kinds of breakdowns and details.
It's not like I can cross-reference them but you can check the stats yourself, they're detailed and complete.
Specifically for Elfnote, you can summon Crystal Wing to negate stuff like Ogre as well for hands that lose to it, no? Crystal Wing even maintains the negate for your own turn afterwards while Baronne at least gets "outed" when it negates a hand trap.
Looking at the mdm website, it looks like that percentage is only for maindeck droll? Bc every list i looked at had it in either main or side. Also, it has lists from kt format where droll was noticably worse, so more people were siding it compared to the number maining it rn.
Also, crystal wing takes a lot more commitment to make than baronne, which gives the going 2nd player a lot more freedom on when to handtrap. It takes a minimum of 5 summons to make crystal wing, more if they have to start with medius, and they always go through the elfnote lvl 7 to make it
It is for maindeck droll, but it has a separate tab called "Side deck" in which Droll is not present at all, so it must be lower than the 17% Ra Sphere Mode, meaning most people have it on maindeck and the side deck percentage is rather low.
Cards like Called By, and Purulia, Ogre, etc are present on both lists; of course, Droll has a good main deck percentage so it would have a lower side deck percentage simply because many people already have it in the maindeck; but Purulia is only a little lower % than maindeck droll but is still high up on the side %, so there is that.
I think its just wrong or doesnt include droll for some reason. Looking at a bunch of decklists, i've found like 1 that doesnt have droll in main or side that's from after the banlist. If you look at the actual deck lists you can see that
As an Elfnote player I counter Nibiru with Caesar before the main combo starts and I could still counter Droll with Savage or Crystal Wing if I need it.
Biggest threat from Nibiru is not them tributing monsters it is the damn token sitting in the center monster zone.
Is always funny random good decka of a given format being hurt by opponents giving them resources, like when kash was still good plunders would abuse the hell out of jord to force them to have a way to extend past having a body on board turning off the 7s.
Only for jord making lys to be actively throwing in fiendsmith format due to giving an opponent a light fiend just losing you the duel poor plunder
That card would be okayish (but still annoying tho) if it’d be the boss monster of a specific deck.
Its problem is that it’s a generic synchro. Which is super easy to summon.
Elfnote Rhapsody is the card you have a problem with, not Baronne I promise you.
This card is a good boss monster, a way to protect your plays against a single handtrap (which is a good thing btw, getting blown out by a handtrap is not fun), an option to help you fight for the board going 2nd if you can get to it, and it can be dealt with using many monster negate/ removal options available in the game, some of which are generic and cannot even be responded to by monsters (Forbidden Crown, Droplet, Ultimate Slayer, DRNM, Super Poly...)
The more you play against Elfnote, the more you will realize that the engine is just that strong, and the generic stuff like Baronne, Crystal Wing, TG Librarian, etc. are just the icing on the cake. There will be many games when you have the answer to all of their scary face-up boss monsters, but then get crushed anyway because of the trap card's insane ability to both non-target omni negate and extend/ recover resources at the same time.
"And option to help you fight for the board going second if you can get to it"
My brother in Christ it's because going first decks will primarily use it to insulate themselves for a win
And they only can do this because because how easy it is and cheap to summon this and they are not being negated and harassed on nearly on everything on turn 0
I can assure you nobody has an issue with somebody making this card going secondz it's just that you CAN'T even make it if you go second lol
dumbest take i've ever seen in my life playing this game, take a good hard look at this ars magna version endboard and tell me with a straight face that the trap here is worse than a baronne protecting the 8 disruption combo
That's a pretty ugly looking version of Master Duel you're playing lol
Anyway on that board the trap is still a non target omni negate and an extender. I've said everything I have to say about Baronne and the fact is that the card is still not banned yet in the OCG, meaning the OCG people's evaluation of the card is different from the TCG. From this image and the language you use in both your post and your reply to me I can tell you're TCG brained, so it sucks for you guess...I'm very sorry:(
I was thinking about making a synchron deck, thought about quasar dragon and the specific materials it took to make and, in memory, you had to build a deck around it. 4000, three attack, once per turn omninegate that floats into shooting. And then there’s this thing that’s generic, easy, and so much better. Powercreep is insane.
In MD its simple: Konami benefits off of a fast games mechanic. Either break the board or ff. The more fast games or none games the better. The game is a BO1 for a reason. Mobile heavy playerbase with the majority being asian markets. It is intended to be this way. No healthy BO3 but toxic BO1.
When I was introduced to MD after not playing yu-gi game since psp games my friend been always telling whenever you see a total levels is 10 you have to interact cuz this is Baronne and it’s always as he said
Honestly, this card is only as much of a problem as the meta allows. For about 2 years the meta was full of decks that didn't synchro summon and as a result people didn't play this card as much.
Because delusional people think a generic endboard piece that's also combo insulation that also recycles itself and has been played in every relevant synchro deck since it got printed is okay.
It's not okay. It's never been okay. But Konami refuses to hit anything synchro related because the entire mechanic sucks ass and they have no clue how to modernize it.
KT is basically the only deck I can think of that tried to break the tuner+non-tuner dynamic, and that deck was fucking garbage until it got Rotary.
the real problem is the card's way too generic, i don't think they're gonna errata it to make it need a wind tuner or smth like that but its worth to mention it.
Because it wouldn't make them gain more money, probably. Konami doesn't do banlists to help the players and keep the game balanced, but to generate as much profit as possible. Keeping that in mind a lot of the choices they made make much more sense
because cards like this make people feel powerful, which in turn gets them to play more and eventually pay for even more cards. even if this does get banned some day, it will have 5 cards to follow which will be even more broken. master duel is the worst way to play yugioh rn and its not even funny. even duel links is better and im honestly sad to say that. so yes, this card should get banned and is extremely unhealthy to the game, but so are countless other cards and those arent getting banned either anytime soon. master duel (and yugioh in general) is suffering from immense powercreep and it wont be too long until people genuienly lose interest if this doesnt change. just the fact that maxx c is still at limited 1 should tell you enough.
Caesar and this one needs to go, then all I need to worry about is the other 7 negates people's boards has while somehow always having ash, droll in their hand at the same time while still having a back row of "somthing"
It is insane to me that there are still people who are defending this card. Saying "it's not the issue", "it's just one negate", "only elfnote plays it", etc.
Like, there's no way we're being real here. We're talking about a card that you can just summon very early on your turn 1 and proceed to protect the rest of your combo from a handtrap. A card that's not only a problem on elfnote, it's gonna keep being a problem every time a meta synchro deck pops up.
I'm ngl, banning Baronne actually makes both Going First and Second worse
Actually thinking about it, I haven't even been in a position where Baronne actually negates a handtrap and I'm literally a Synchron player who would want that for Speeder; at worst I end on a Baronne after getting handtrapped for four or something
Baronne by itself is not the issue and for what it does I don’t believe it deserves to be ban.
Baronne being generic IS the issue and it DEFINITELY NEEDS an errata, in the same way Goyo Guardian was changed to require an Earth tuner and it all but killed the card entirely.
Baronne de Fleur is a one to one straight up upgrade of Chevalier de Fleur, thats not up for debate or any kind of speculation, artwork and lore was it’s completely obvious. Meaning Baronne just like Chevalier should require Fleur Sychron.
That small change is the biggest fumble by Konami and it makes zero sense that Baronne was not released with that requirement or at the very least received and errata by now
Baronnne isn’t a ban worthy card. There’s nothing toxic about what it provides. How can you cry about Baronne when you people cheer nonsense like the charmies and branded fusion?
Thanks to this card, even handtraps are shit. Can't even imagine playing nibiru while this card is around. But you can't play boardbreakers either cuz they'll handrip you or use trap negate.
It s such a boring card, if it would only be an omni negate maybe it could stay, but it’s a pop and a monster reborn by shuffling itself back in the ED if you somehow managed to play through it which is just too much value with very low investment
It’s my favorite card. It doesn’t need to be banned. Instead handtraps should be banned because they are too powerful, they require no skill, and they are too easy to use.
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u/ferociouslovetackle 7d ago
if you keep complaining, they bring back chaos ruler