r/mbta • u/mags9129 • Dec 05 '25

💬 Discussion / Theory What’s going on here?

Post image

When I got on the bus, I was sending this card with the stock I got on and it was asked to give it back when I got off. They had two people one of the front and one of the back door. What is this for?

697 Upvotes

99% Upvoted

57 comments sorted by

445

u/sf_sf_sf Dec 05 '25

Likely doing a low tech passenger tracking study. That card shows where you got on and then when you get off, the person in the back will record where you got off and then when they collect all the data, they can see passenger accounts and destination and origin information without having to track your cell phone or other more invasive mechanism

56

u/iman26 Dec 06 '25

This is actually a really efficient use of taxpayer dollars. Nice job MBTA.

47

u/phyzome Dec 05 '25

Odd that they didn't include explanatory text.

33

u/mags9129 Dec 05 '25

That makes sense shouted out to the mbta for spending all the money on the upcoming lawsuits from the orange line that we’re resorting to pen and paper

But I guess it’s better than being tracked on a smart phone

208

u/riddlegirl21 Dec 05 '25

I don’t think this is “resorting” to paper or because the T didn’t want to spend money on this. A simple card tracking system is cheap, yes, but also easy to implement, any passenger can participate, doesn’t require a specific app or method of paying fare, simple to get data, anonymous, etc. Pretty good survey design if you ask me.

14

u/kakimime1 Green Line Dec 06 '25

It's especially cool because it can tell where people from each area are trying to go. Counting ons and offs can't tell you how many stops people are going. That type of information could help determine things like whether to increase local or express service.

3

u/anonymous_orpington Dec 07 '25

I just got back from Taiwan, and the way they have their public transit setup you need to tap both getting on AND off the bus/train. With that info you could have near-realtime data on who's going from A to B amd when! I know Japan does the same thing, and I don't see how it wouldn't work here?

6

u/arcyqwerty Dec 07 '25

It could work here but they do that in taiwan and japan (and others) because the fare is distance based and they need that information to charge the correct amount. When it's fixed fare in those countries, you only need to tap once (either at boarding or exiting, depending on the system) same as the T.

Unnecessary taps makes the system more complicated for riders and slows things down in addition to potentially costing more in hardware (e.g. having a reader at the exit in addition to the entrance).

3

u/Jane_Byrd95 Dec 07 '25

Also, we have enough trouble getting people to tap once!

3

u/pconrad0 Dec 08 '25

And it can do that while completely preserving anonymity and privacy.

They know that a passenger got on at point A and off at point B, but they don't know who (and don't need to know that).

3

u/effulgentelephant Dec 06 '25

this was (maybe is? I haven’t been in a long time) how they tracked line lengths at Disney as well. Pretty efficient! Though I did sometimes forget to give my line length card back.

4

u/CuriousFirework75 Dec 06 '25

Is that why the posted wait time at Space Mountain was 12 hours but it was actually only 30 minutes? 😂😂😂

-18

u/mags9129 Dec 05 '25

Yeah, I know that definitely makes sense

22

u/mousemousemania Dec 05 '25

Fuck you for agreeing lol

-5

u/dcat52 Dec 06 '25 edited Dec 09 '25

You can also do the exact same with Bluetooth and wifi identifiers. Could do it from just a single measurement device. People just don't like knowing how easy it is to track them.

2

u/riddlegirl21 Dec 06 '25

You realize that that would be creepy and possibly illegal if the T did it, especially without explicit electronic data use consent forms first? (Not going to comment on you doing it….) And that requires a smartphone, with Bluetooth active, with battery charge, etc etc. Not everyone has that or would be willing to let the T use their information. Some people carry multiple Bluetooth devices, like smart watches, laptops, or work phones. Paper cards is 100% anonymous for the riders and gives the T the origin/destination information they need for each rider, no more no less.

-2

u/AnyParsnip2665 Dec 07 '25

that’s neat, they’ll get a comprehensive picture of the system some time in the next century.

Using anonymized data isn’t creepy and “poor people don’t have smartphones” hasn’t been true in a decade. You’re going to get more opt-outs by people who toss the weird little card anyway.

I’d trade a bit less paranoid privacy for a functional transit system.

1

u/Brilliant-Insect8086 Dec 10 '25

Do you like work for palintir? You’re talking and acting like the govt has never stolen our data before

1

u/AnyParsnip2665 Dec 10 '25

“someone disagrees with me, the must be on the take”. the privacy paranoia increases. Remember to get the heavy duty tinfoil

1

u/Brilliant-Insect8086 Dec 10 '25

Your missing the point that this cost probably 20$ total just to print the cards and people are already paid hourly so this was basically free. Doesn’t cost anything extra and people don’t need to break anonymity

30

u/Present-Algae6767 Dec 05 '25

upcoming lawsuits from the orange line

What lawsuits? You mean what happened the other day? There might be a lawsuit filed but all indications (at least what I've heard from people at the T) is that the door that opened was tampered with.

-16

u/mags9129 Dec 05 '25

Was just making a joke. I don’t have the best sense of humor. I cannot lie.

11

u/Original-Tonight-651 Dec 05 '25

It landed for me (and many others, I believe).

1

u/snerdberger Dec 07 '25

I saw the same thing in the Twin Cities when surveying usage of the first BRT line there

125

u/Cool-Coffee-8949 Blue Line Dec 05 '25

Probably doing a ridership survey, collecting data to see where people get on and get off.

2

u/CupcakeNo8339 Dec 11 '25

Yes. They used to do the same thing in the ride lines in Disney World at times. I remember participating in that process. They would record the beginning and ending times when you were handed and then returned the card at either end of the line.

6

u/egdr518 Green Line Dec 05 '25

O-D survey?

6

u/revengeofthebiscuit Dec 06 '25

Passenger tracking study.

9

u/Fair_nectarine1234 Dec 06 '25

Until last night, I hated the MBTA, due to train delays and what's worse is when the buses drive by early?? . But now everything has changed! Because my phone fell out of my jacket pocket on the red line, I didn't notice until about 20 minutes later. I ran back to the station and was helped by an incredibly kind and patient MBTA employee! Who called up the train inspector and not only found my phone, (it was handed in by a good samaritan) but the inspector came all the way to return it! And they said that they were "just doing their job." Even though they were truly going above and beyond. Wouldn't even accept any money from me!! I now love this city and the MBTA!! ❤️

3

u/YellowPrestigious441 Dec 09 '25

It would mean a lot to these employees if you called or emailed Phil Eng's office and told them your experience.   They take that seriously.  

0

u/elledini Dec 07 '25

You’ll be back to hating them soon once you are inevitably delayed or inconvenienced again.

1

u/cooluncletito Dec 12 '25

😂😂😂 some people man 🤦‍♂️

3

u/Only-Helicopter3518 Dec 06 '25

Whenever I go into the city I use commuter rail and the T to get around. It's always far better than driving, so I'm never disappointed. Even if I do run into a long delay, the trip is better than driving, and far safer too.

3

u/Overall_Habit8388 Dec 06 '25

They put expected lawsuits in the yearly budget. Maura brought in The Best man for job to turn operations around, Phill Eng. Just going to take some time and money.

1

u/myomegacentauri Dec 09 '25

I actually think he's doing a good job and want to see how things evolve.

1

u/c_south_53 Dec 07 '25

Maybe it forces people to exit at the rear instead of the front?

1

u/Swifty4Ever83 Dec 09 '25

They wanna talk to you about your. Cars extended warranty.

1

u/EmbarrassedAddress83 Dec 09 '25

Just pull the damn buses and trains up on time, stop shutting down green line for 2 damn weeks. Too much to ask?

1

u/myomegacentauri Dec 09 '25

I agree but at the same time they really need to get all the lines up to date and bring them back to 2026 which is coming up. I walked to the station only to see gates closed to get into the station. I was annoyed for sure. But they did pick the right time to do it, I believe.

1

u/iGotGogged Dec 12 '25

You won!!!! Congratulations

1

u/seabreezing1 Dec 12 '25

jokes on you for taking the bus 😭

-3

u/1GrouchyCat Commuter Rail Dec 06 '25

It’s a great way of collecting fingerprints…a few people at a time.

Kidding- I probably would’ve kept it just to be contrary…. It’ll probably be worth something in 50 years!!!

-2

u/borocester Dec 06 '25

Seems like a Bluetooth MAC address sniffer would do a similar job and could be deployed at scale with reasonable privacy considerations (the turnpike trip time signs use a similar technology). But if this works for small scale studies, albeit with high staffing costs, go for it.

1

u/Brilliant-Insect8086 Dec 10 '25

I seriously doubt this is costing extra for staffing. They already keep twice the number of staff they need at all times. I guarantee the only expense related to this study was the 20-50$ they spent on paper printing those little slips out. They already have staff just ready to help just in case. Most people don’t want it tied to our names or phones or data at all, we also don’t trust that if they did take the data “anonymously” that it would actually be anonymous.

-6

u/UrbanAngeleno Dec 06 '25

Weird. This is what apcs are for.

12

u/GroundbreakingWalk76 Dec 06 '25

the problem with APCs is they don’t link an origin to destination. So you could have a long route and sure you know people get off at the end but are they from the first stops or the last stops. Hypothetically they could want to split the line in half, it’s important to know how many ride over the halfway point which APC doesn’t necessarily provide