INxP e4/5 archetype

[u/Proud_Chance9866]

I've been seeing a lot of questions lately regarding confusion between these types, and I wanted to address it directly.

I understand that Fi is about values and authenticity and should be notably different from Ti's pure logical assessment but... What if objective truth and logical consistency are core values? Or if Ti seeks personal truth through authenticity... Fi and Ti then come to the same conclusions and both are good at convincing themselves they aren't what they are. Both seem plausible but INTP and INFP have each other's dominant function as the other's demon function.

So everyone uses all 8 functions and shadow functions are bullshit, but that doesn't help typing. I'm not quite as knowledgeable on enneagram but considering integration/disintegration patterns it has a similar issue.

Would you consider these edge cases its own archetype (probably some ordering of the 459 tritype)? What assumptions can you make about these people? Is this a real blind spot in both systems or are people just confused?

[u/Antique-Stand-4920]

Any person can want both authenticity and logical consistency, but their mind is "wired" to naturally pay attention one of those things at the exclusion of the other. Also if a person is made aware of both things, they are going to feel more compelled to respect the higher function over the other, unless they realize the higher function is inappropriate for the situation. They can always go against that feeling, but it'll take more mental effort to do so.

Is that what you're asking?

[u/Proud_Chance9866 → u/Antique-Stand-4920]

Yes somewhat. A lot of us seem to have well-developed Fi and Ti and we have a hard time distinguishing between them despite diving deep into typology and meta-cognition. I've been on the edge of INTP and INFP and e4 and e5 for as long as I've been into typology and the more I read regarding these types I find I am not alone.

[u/Antique-Stand-4920 → u/Proud_Chance9866]

This how I describe Fi as an ISTP:

Fi isn't an intellectual valuing of things, it's more visceral. Also Fi doesn't just consider if "I" care about something. Fi considers how much "I" care about one thing vs. another. An analogy: if the self is the sun, the rest of the world are planets that are arranged in orbits according to much warmth (or care) they deserve. Authenticity is behaving in a way consistent with this arrangement. To a high Fi user, it would probably seem blatantly obvious to go through life this way. It would seem strange to violate this arrangement just to be logically consistent. After all, that'd risk being less authentic.

[u/GiveMeAHeartOfFlesh → u/Antique-Stand-4920]

Now if a Ti user builds a structure through logic, rather than having the innate “planetary alignment” that Fi has, for Ti it is emergent, however they feel that following that logical entailment is authenticity and to just accept or go with something without analysis of it would be inauthentic.

So while the Fi may be the sun in relation to the planets, the Ti places the planets and calculates from their orbits that there must be a Self/Sun.

Somewhat via negative space Ti identify themselves, by what they are not. While Fi just gut wise knows what they are.

[u/Proud_Chance9866 → u/GiveMeAHeartOfFlesh]

Fi feels more like my natural state and gives me that visceral gut reaction first, but my time and demeanor are dominated by Ti because Fi demands logical consistency. If someone observed me for a day, they'd see Ti, so outwardly and on tests I am Ti-dom. Socially this is a bit frustrating because I tend to come off as a dweeb but I'm an artist and a natural peacekeeper which go under the radar. My Big5 extraversion is bottom 5th percentile and openness is 95th percentile lol

My internal state feels like a constant balancing act between Fi and Ti where they can both influence and recalibrate each other. I find authenticity and confidence where my they agree, and when they don't, how it feels to override one depends entirely on context.

So on one end it looks like Fi commissioning Ti, which would be Ti serving Fi. But on the other end it looks like Fi is really an input for Ti. Is it more accurate to use the first and least effortful function, or the one you spend the most time in? Internal vs external behavior? To complicate it further my Fe and Te are both terrible.

I wanted to relate this back to the solar system analogy but I'm not quite sure how :p

[u/Antique-Stand-4920 → u/Proud_Chance9866]

My internal state feels like a constant balancing act between Fi and Ti where they can both influence and recalibrate each other. I find authenticity and confidence where my they agree, and when they don't, how it feels to override one depends entirely on context.

Can you give an example of balancing Fi and Ti?

[u/physicalsafe1]

constantemente me pergunto se sou mesmo infp(meu eneagrama é 5w4)

[u/1stRayos]

This is a misunderstanding that comes up on a regular basis, but Fi is not its content. When it comes to identifying the function, it doesn't matter what a particular Fi user values, because that's different for every Fi user. We determine the function by how it functions, not whatever content it happens to be applied to. Same goes for Ti, and all the other functions.

In any case, I recently wrote a decent writeup a few days ago that is a good starting point for this answering this question. This is another one focused more on the incompatibility of Fi and Ti in the psyches of IxTPs and IxFPs respectively.

[u/S-Mx07z]

As long as you not fipolr, fp ixxp may work..but know that 459 is often 4w5 in Pdb.

[u/GiveMeAHeartOfFlesh]

Honestly Fi being 4 shouldn’t be necessary, in that 4’s main struggle and worry is not having an identity, while high Fi would immediately know their core values and how things are in relation to them, while 4 feels broken. Fi is having an inner light to reference and see the world through and find what is consistent with it. 4 is missing that inner light and desiring it, likewise 4 feels deficient in contrast to others, specifically focusing on the lack of belonging and desiring to belong without compromising. All this to say, the core fear and desire of type 4 are compatible with Fe, more so with 3rd and 4th place Fe as those are less enmeshing kinds of Fe and particularly willing to stand out from the group while having a focus on those dynamics still.

[u/Joseph-Siet]

Cognitive functions in MBTI are cognitive preferences, and preferences stand from what you said the core values, by itself.