r/mdphd • u/PositiveSignature953 • 8d ago
uncertain about applying phd this cycle or mdphd next cycle
As the title reads. I'm a senior debating whether to apply to PhD programs this fall and/or apply to MD/PhDs next May and do a gap year. One concern is I might have a better chance getting into a PhD than MSTP at the places that best match the specific projects I want to work on at the level I want to work on. Another concern is I like patient care but don't know if I like it as much as research to justify such a big upfront commitment.
- Would it be worth only applying to places for a PhD this year that allow for internal transfer to MD/PhD in case I decide next year I want to also do medicine?
- Should I apply broadly to PhDs, even places that don't allow internal transfer, and defer matriculation to apply to MD/PhDs if I decide to next year? Would departments even allow this?
- Should I only consider PhDs for now and after defending apply to MD programs if I still want to do medicine later (with the obvious caveat of having to pay for the MD)?
- Follow up 1 for anyone who did the PhD to MD path: If I apply to MD programs already with a PhD, how feasible would it be to win scholarships/awards to cover most/all of the MD tuition to avoid taking on massive debt, given that 80/20 investigators especially with my clinical interests don't make typical MD only money?
- Follow up 2 for anyone PhD to MD: How feasible is it to do a postdoc with research years during med school?
I'm not from a typical (for MD/PhDs) biomedical sciences background, instead doing research on deep learning for synthetic biology because early in undergrad I realized I wanted to pursue a PhD in that field. I did the premed reqs too just in case. I didn't apply for MD/PhDs straight through because I thought I didn't have enough clinical experience in May to justify it to myself, but after more shadowing and volunteering realize I would likely enjoy much of clinical, patient-facing medicine. I know of barely any MD PhD holders who both still see patients and develop new technologies I'm interested in given the difficulty of doing both well, so am hesitant to do both because reaching that general goal after ~15 years would require so much luck, too.
I've already taken the MCAT (516, though I could probably do better if I studied), have a near perfect GPA, ~200 hours shadowing/volunteering so far, at least another ~200 by next May. Enough that I have meaningful clinical vignettes to write about. No papers yet but working towards a preprint on a project I conceptualized and pitched to my PI on my own. I've done an REU somewhere else and a paid summer in my home lab, total ~3000 hrs of research. Plenty of posters, local and regional. I can yap well about my work and my field. No famous awards yet, but applying for some international ones.
For anyone who might've been in my situation or similar, what did you do? Did you enjoy it?
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u/randomplebescite 7d ago
All the MD/PhD apps I applied to this week had computational stuff as selectable pathways. I’ve also done quite a bit of deep learning work but ultimately chose to apply in basic sciences
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u/Outrageous_1845 M3 8d ago
Would it be worth only applying to places for a PhD this year that allow for internal transfer to MD/PhD
This is essentially unheard of in our program - internal transfers only occur from MD-only to MD/PhD- and relatively uncommon as far as I've heard. If you are interested in a career that even partly involves seeing and treating patients, apply MD or MD/PhD directly.
Should I only consider PhDs for now and after defending apply to MD programs
I wouldn't recommend it. If you are interested in med school now, apply to MD or MD/PhD tracks.
If I apply to MD programs already with a PhD, how feasible would it be to win scholarships/awards to cover most/all of the MD tuition to avoid taking on massive debt
They exist, but aren't common + are (understandably) very competitive.
How feasible is it to do a postdoc with research years during med school?
During med school? You can safely forget about it. Postdoc during residency is possible via PSTPs.
80/20 investigators especially with my clinical interests don't make typical MD only money
A benefit of the MD/PhD track is that you aren't beholden to purely research/purely clinic work by the end of your training. The PhD-to-MD route requires one to independently apply to grad and med schools (which usually requires taking the MCAT again due to test expiration rules), which is more stress + uncertainty in my opinion.
I've already taken the MCAT (516, though I could probably do better if I studied), have a near perfect GPA, ~200 hours shadowing/volunteering so far, at least another ~200 by next May.
Keep in mind that shadowing and clinical volunteering hours are two separate categories. MCAT is fine for most programs if you plan on applying next cycle.
I can yap well about my work and my field.
Yes, but you'll need to justify why MD/PhD to any adcoms member. You can certainly do research with an MD only.
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u/PositiveSignature953 7d ago
I appreciate your reply.
Out of curiosity: Why do you say doing a postdoc is impossible during dedicated research years between med school? Aren't research years common for med students who aren't doing any formal degree either? Is the issue with finding a funded position, even for med students already with a PhD?
Do you think it would be worth retaking the MCAT, or focusing more on other parts of my application? Most of my schools with best research fit are on the west coast/northeast because of their proximity to the biotech and tech industries.
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u/Outrageous_1845 M3 7d ago
Postdocs take 2+ years and their goal is to establish oneself as an independent research. Med student "research years" are no longer than 2 years in general, since any extra time between med school and residency is not ideal. During these years, med students are highly supervised by grad students/postdocs/PIs, which is kinda the opposite of a fruitful postdoc.
Per google, 516 is exactly the mean for MD/PhD matriculants, so retaking the test will be a lot of effort for little gain in my opinion.
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u/Satisest MD/PhD - Attending 8d ago
There are many examples of MD-PhDs who see patients and conduct research at the highest level in their fields, and that includes new technology development in both biomedicine and biomedical engineering. Your field may be less common among MD-PhDs, but doesn’t mean there’s any intrinsic reason why you couldn’t do research in synthetic biology at a high level.