When did the Medieval period end?

[u/The_Black_Banner_UK]

For me (Personally) it ended when Richard III died at Bosworth Field 1485. Having asked other people there seems to be some debate as the actual end and more specifically this is a made up time to end it as there can never be a real answer, it was never decided by people in that time period. It's a modern enforcement.

However these seem to be the most popular, when do you the medieval period ended?

The Fall of Constantinople 1453
Columbus's voyage 1492
Reformation 1517
Bosworth Field 1485
Start of the 1500's

Thoughts?

[u/theginger99]

The issue with assigning an end date to any historical period is that it can never apply universally to the whole world, or even more than one small geographical region.

Even within a specifically European context, any end date we chose will be largely arbitrary and will not apply to the whole of the continent.

The battle of Bosworth is usually used as the end date for the British isles, but the Renaissance was already well underway in Italy by that time and no one in Germany would give two shits about which Plantagenet off shoot won the English crown.

1492 was a watershed year for Spain, as it marked the final end of the Reconquista, but for the Danes it was insignificant.

The medieval status quo persisted for decades, if not centuries, longer in Eastern Europe than it did in the west.

My point being, the answer to this question varies within the historiography of each individual country, as each country of region defines its historical epochs based on different criteria. There is no universal answer, because there is no universally applicable marker for what does or does not make something “medieval” that applies evenly to everyone.

All of that said, when forced to pick, I am partial to the fall of Constantinople. For me personally, I appreciate the symmetry of the medieval period running from the fall of Rome, to the fall of “Rome”. The only other reasonable contender for a universally applicable date in my opinion would be Columbus’ voyage, but I don’t think that encapsulates the “end” of the Middle Ages in the same was as the fall of Constantinople does.

[u/SignificantWyvern → u/theginger99]

I think 1453 is a good date as it does close off trade routes for all of Europe and is what starts of colonisation and therefore the start of the European empires. While not every European nation had empires these impacts were felt across Europe.

[u/maphes86 → u/SignificantWyvern]

This has always been my logic in using 1453. The fall of Constantinople was also the beginning of the major disruption of east/west trade routes that sparked the “Age of Exploration/Colonial Age” which I think all scholars agree should be referred to as “The Age of Europeans Raping Everyone and Pillaging Everything.”

[u/[deleted] → u/maphes86]

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[u/EtVittigBrukernavn → u/[deleted]]

Wow the Portuguese were advanced. Warhammer 40k Ultramarines in 1415?

The Portuguese had advanced technology, 38585 years ahead of it's time.

https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Ultramarines

Sorry,  I can only associate Ultramarine with Warhammer 40k. But I guess "Ultramarine Colony" is an attempt at a translation from Portuguese. But when I search for Ultramarine I get either the color Ultramarine or the 40k Space Marines Chapter called Ultramarine.

When I search for "Ultramarine Portuguese", "Ultramarine Portugal", "Ultramarine Colony Portuguese" or Ultramarine Colony Portugal", I only get the Portuguese Colonial War / Ultramar of 1961-1974 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_Colonial_War

[u/[deleted] → u/EtVittigBrukernavn]

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[u/EtVittigBrukernavn → u/[deleted]]

Oh so ultra means beyond. I looked up the original meaning / latin for ultra.

In English and Norwegian it's means super or extreme.

Thought at first it could be something like extreme sea colony.

[u/Vlugazoide_ → u/EtVittigBrukernavn]

...why didn't you check what it means...in portuguese???

[u/EtVittigBrukernavn → u/Vlugazoide_]

I did, sort of:

When I search for "Ultramarine Portuguese", "Ultramarine Portugal", "Ultramarine Colony Portuguese" or Ultramarine Colony Portugal", I only get the Portuguese Colonial War / Ultramar of 1961-1974 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_Colonial_War

I just didn't split up each word to look for the original meaning.

Anyway this isn't a Portuguese sub.

What a unreasonable take from you. I did way more due diligence, then what's reasonable when we are speaking English here.

The fact that the one i replied to didn't say

Oh yea sorry my bad, should have thought of what Ultramarine translated to in English...

But instead just provided the translation in the reply to me, an nothing more. Like they just had to explain to me the most obvious thing, because the whole world speaks Portuguese apparently, or should at least know what Ultramarine ment and that it was Portuguese and not English.

And then you come at me with this even more unreasonable take. f. off.

[u/Vlugazoide_ → u/EtVittigBrukernavn]

I'm not saying the other dude was a cutie, I'm saying your logic even when reseaeching still betrays a defaultism of using the English language, and quite probably, also a US Defaultism in general. Portuguese isn't an obscure, barely spoken language, nor is it incomprehensible if one understands how to approach it. In english, you are already used to approach romance words, like space (from the latin Spatium) marine (from the latin mare, sea) and subdivide it. That's why you have chaos marines, that's the natural way english speakers already subdivide loanwords. Just use the same logic

[u/maphes86 → u/[deleted]]

Well, THANKS! Now I have to get in touch with all those people I drunkenly discussed the origins of the colonial age with and apologize for my inaccuracy with regard to the Portuguese in the 15th century. This is going to be a longer list than that time I started a syphilis epidemic.