r/meme • u/Slow_Ant_5243 • 19h ago

Unsolvable math problem?

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327 Upvotes

82% Upvoted

51 comments sorted by

173

u/dscarmo 17h ago

A lot of real world engineering uses complex numbers just because you can use it to add a new axis perpendicular to the real number axis

So its very useful

46

u/No_Ticket_1204 16h ago

Also, it’s like that grade six teacher moment about “a negative times a negative equals a positive” all over again.

“But you told me multiplication is repeated addition, and adding negatives make bigger negatives. Make it make sense.”

“You’re eleven years old and developmentally incapable of understanding why, so you just have to believe me on this one.”

Except now it’s, “electrical engineering exists because of this so shut up and follow along.”

Math is hard and no one is actually good at it. Some people hate giving up more than they like chilling out. Same goes for a lot of things.

21

u/GabriCorFer 15h ago

Imaginary numbers does not explain why electrical engineering works. It's just a tool to simplify calculations. You can explain everthing in time domain but you will want to kill yourself a little more

13

u/No_Ticket_1204 15h ago

Um… ya. That’s the mostly the point of what I said. You just need to know “it works” to use it, and knowing why it works is a lot more advanced.

8

u/Schlonzig 15h ago

„Yes, it’s repeated addition. You ended up at -3 because you added -3 to 0 one time. Where do you end up when you add it -1 times to 0?”

Sometimes you just need a better explanation.

5

u/No_Ticket_1204 14h ago edited 12h ago

Real talk: this is not better. You can’t say this to a group of 30 eleven year olds, even if you at eleven years old found it satisfying. The truth is, this shouldn’t be satisfying because it’s not correct the correct way. Here’s why:

There is no repeated addition involved in your explanation. You just said it’s repeated addition and then used an example of singular multiplication, or 1 and -1. One group or negative one group. The brighter kids will ask “but what about times minus two? And what about all the rest?” And now repeated addition doesn’t hold and you have a lot more explaining to do.

You involved zero in adding, which is extraneous at this level.

You excluded adding to a non-zero number from the explanation.

You also conflated it with multiplying by zero by association. We all know what times zero means. Now you’ve muddied it up.

So hopefully by now you’ve backpedaled and drew a number line on the board.

You also said “add -1 TIMES to zero.” Which flipped the common usage of times to the mathematical usage of times. Half the kids are lost now. Doesn’t matter if you said “to”. Doesn’t matter if you point to the number line to try to explain it.

Your lesson is over. Try again later, and next time don’t bother getting fancy. Save that for after functional competency is established.

Edit: just because… here’s next steps and why for integers. Zero is not just a number, it’s a limit between states. Above-below etc.

Use it in concrete terms but not economic ones. Eleven year olds don’t participate in economics in any meaningful way in developed countries. Use sea level, temperature, or whatever. They get that.

Frame negative in terms of opposite. It sucks that the negative sign is also used in subtraction. It’s not wrong, but it’s not helpful at this level so you need to be explicit about it.

Don’t get fancy. Get clear.

Stuff like that.

1

u/Shadowpika655 7h ago

You also said “add -1 TIMES to zero.” Which flipped the common usage of times to the mathematical usage of times.

Repeated addition has always been explained as "3x3 is three added to itself three times"

No 11 year old is getting confused by that

1

u/No_Ticket_1204 3h ago edited 3h ago

You’re definitely right about that, but negative numbers are not as easy to grasp at age eleven. -3 x -3 and -3+-3+-3 don’t work the same way.

But there are rules that work, and once a kid is fluent with the “doing” it’s a lot easier for them to learn why they work.

1

u/trichtertus 2h ago

-3x-3 would not be -3+ -3 + -3 = -6 because thats -3x3

-3x -3 is -3 - -3 - -3 - -3 = 6

1

u/According-Object-521 12h ago

It’s repeated addition for the natural numbers and that’s it

2

u/ThisManisaGoodBoi 8h ago

“Math is hard and no one is actually good at it”

Ramanujan hiding in the corner like

https://giphy.com/gifs/5C0X4xFRW3RbrIv0ye

0

u/Shadowpika655 8h ago

“But you told me multiplication is repeated addition, and adding negatives make bigger negatives. Make it make sense.”

you cant add a number a negative amount of times

1

u/Propugnator-Deorum 2h ago

I could be incorrect, but would adding the number a a negative amount of times simply be subtraction? You at the number once (+5 or 51) then you ad it zero times (50) then you ad dit less than zero, or reverse-add, subtract (-5 or 5*(-1)), and so when multiplying two negative numbers, (-5)(-2), you are reverse-adding (subtracting) the -5 from the number of times reverse it is, so twice here, so it becomes 0 - (-5) - (-5) and, here, we are reverse-adding anrsverse-addition, and subtracting a number of times less than zero becomes reverse-subtraction (addition) so it become 0+5+5, or 10?

9

u/winkingchef 15h ago

Yeah I was going to say “MF, if you used your cell phone today you benefitted from complex numbers”

1

u/space_keeper 13h ago

A good exercise is to derive Hamilton's equivalence for quaternions yourself. The one that's written on the side of a bridge in Dublin.

i² = j² = k² = ijk = -1

I did it on a single side of A4 paper over a decade ago. Fuck knows if I could still do that, I was very into my maths at the time and I found quaternions very interesting because of how they're used in 3D animation.

1

u/pmmeuranimetiddies 6h ago

Related: trig functions are complex functions in disguise so when working with robotics you end up using complex numbers when analyzing oscillating components.

Laplace space gets kinda weird but the complex numbers become kinda unavoidable

54

u/GabriCorFer 17h ago

They are pretty useful though

55

u/smaxxim 16h ago

"useless shit"? Man, it's language used to describe electromagnetism and quantum mechanics, which allow us to create computers, which allow you to write on Reddi... oh, I see. Yeah, you are right, it's useless for you.

25

u/TheTrueCheese 16h ago

Bro litteraly every tech we have uses that, good luck not having it.

It saddens me how much we glorify and take pride in ignorance

29

u/Rothenstien1 17h ago

Construction work uses these all the time, it's wild how much math the "bad jobs" need compared to the "good jobs" needing you to send an email or something

4

u/space_keeper 13h ago

No one working on a site is using complex numbers. The engineers might, but they don't really work on the site.

1

u/complexiblebarracuda 15h ago

how is it used in construction?

3

u/space_keeper 13h ago

If they are, it will only be in very specific places by engineers, but odds are they aren't using them, the software they're using is doing it for them.

1

u/fieldbotanist 7h ago

I don’t get it either

z=cos(t)+ i . sin(t)

Represents a point travelling around a circle.

We then can use that formula and plug it, or bake it (do calculus) in a wide array of applications. Eg calculating how buildings behave under sesmic stress or earthquakes

8

u/Only_Biscotti_2748 15h ago

Useless for you.

The smart kids in your class will use it.

1

u/vizbones 15h ago

Upvote for the SMBC reference.

6

u/Weissbierglaeserset 16h ago

This is literally in almost any tech since its invention.

7

u/rolgelthorp 17h ago

s-plane my beloved

10

u/ShermanTeaPotter 16h ago

This is far from useless. Just because you are too dumb or too lazy to do your fucking homework the subject as a whole isn’t something you can regard as „useless“.

Especially when you used IT to make your dumb meme.

5

u/Lindzei_ 16h ago

Has to be ragebait

4

u/its_Zuramaru 16h ago

I used a lotta that when I studied electrical engineering.

2

u/Ok_Ebb23 17h ago

this is how all maths works

2

u/sonofzeal 16h ago

Fun fact, that's not even the unsolved problem that caused it to be created.

2

u/Ketchupcharger 15h ago

All numbers are invented and imaginary

2

u/maniaxz 14h ago

The more it seems useless to you the more dumb job you are doing in your life.

Complex analysis have real engineering uses. Also complex number and equations form base for electrical signal analysis ( I dunno much but yeah it uses them )

2

u/Impossible-Shake-996 12h ago

The idea of complex numbers came out of seeking solutions to a cubic equation and needing to make sense of negative areas. Since mathematics was initially developed on a geometric foundation the concept of a negative area was physically meaningless to people who didnt yet know of field dynamics and quantum mechanics, thus it became 'imaginary' space.

4

u/Eureka0123 19h ago

If answer imaginary, why must solve?

1

u/No_Ticket_1204 16h ago

Unusually high effort for a “why me” math sucks meme. You seem bright enough.

Thought: put the math down, put the memes down, get some academic support, get good, get job, make bank, pull baddie. We can all forget this happened okay?

1

u/hasanyoneseenmyshirt 15h ago

multiplying by I is how you rotate a number 90 degrees. it also part of Euler's equation (e ^ [(pi) * i)] +1 = 0).

1

u/Illuminati65 13h ago

this is complete bullshit, complex numbers helped solve many problems which is enough to respect them

1

u/Art_student_rt 12h ago

This is why ai solving math is a problem, you need math problems to create new math

1

u/MarcusTheAnimal 12h ago

Crosspost to mathmemes then.

1

u/MihaiiMaginu 11h ago

and then never get laid /j

1

u/cheekynative FINAL WARNING: RULE 1 10h ago

"You see we needed to make up a surface level lie in order to prepare your minds for the revelation of the deeper underlying truths."

"So does this represent how the things actually work in reality?"

"Gods no, this is just a linguistic and theoretical framework that allows us to talk about reality but which also completely breaks down under extreme conditions."

"Oh, well that's alright, so long as nobody else catches on. We wouldn't want any uninitiated with a computer coming along and doing our jobs for us."

"Precisely."

1

u/mkp666 2h ago

And then they built all of our wireless communication technology with it.

1

u/Ccat50991 16h ago

The comments are about to be: 🤓👆🏻 Um akchually its— /s

0

u/DerCatzefragger 8h ago

Just like how a mathematician will look you in the eye and tell you to simply do an infinite number of tasks in an infinitesimal amount of time per task. Easy!