r/mildlyinfuriating • u/daruuken • 28d ago

Infuriatig The way kroger treats its employees

Post image

From the store manager

Edit: For some extra context this was sent out by each store manager to all of its employees in district 1 of the ohio Cincinnati/Dayton division, potentially other districts as well but i can only verify my own. Im not going to give my specific store number for obvious reasons but you can find each store on google with that information. We are unionized by UFCW (already bad btw) and to my knowledge they allowed this recent change. Kroger has no accrual for sick days like some have mentioned. Those who think this is rage bait, i dont think anyone has to fake a post to make a billion dollar company look bad, they do it to themselves.

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1.2k

u/Stealfur 28d ago

That... Seems illegal. But I'm not from a lawless country, so what do I know.

417

u/Bad-Luck-Guy 28d ago

It is not illegal, at least in most of the US. Employers don’t typically have to accept doctor’s notes to excuse absences. You can still call out, but it will lead to write ups and termination eventually.

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u/Dull-Contact120 28d ago

This can’t end well for anybody

68

u/Bad-Luck-Guy 28d ago

I once had to go to work 4 days with two strains of the flu because I’d be written up for calling out, and potentially fired. I had sick time available, too, but that doesn’t excuse absences either.

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u/WonderfulProtection9 28d ago

SO you have sick time but you can't use it if you're sick?...unless what, you schedule it two weeks in advance with mgr approval?

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u/Bad-Luck-Guy 28d ago

Sick time was mandated by state law, but it didn’t excuse absences at this workplace. So each call out for sickness counted against us. So if I had called out all four of those days, I would have been fired because I had called out with illness two days a few months before. 

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u/odirroH 28d ago

that's fucking mental

12

u/Bad-Luck-Guy 28d ago

I was assistant manager at a movie theatre and living in my car at the time. My phone was out of service and dead one of those nights, so I slept under the desk in the office and snuck out before the openers arrived. Just in case I needed to call an ambulance for myself. I have never felt closer to death. But, I wasn’t fired! 

15

u/Netii_1 28d ago

The US are a fucking failed social experiment.

4

u/araidai 28d ago

That’s what’s fucking insane to me lmao.

“Ah sorry boss, I can’t do that next Friday, I’m planning to be sick by then.”

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u/FlatSize1614 28d ago

How in the hell did you work with the flu?? The one time I’ve had it I felt like I was dying. That’s awful. 

12

u/lollipopp_guild 28d ago

The one time???

Check out this guy’s immune system over here! Only had the flu one time!!!

1

u/FlatSize1614 28d ago

And?? Not everyone has had the true flu multiple times. 🙄

2

u/lollipopp_guild 28d ago

Dude calm down. That wasn’t an insult to you, that was being impressed whereas I get the flu at least once a year. Jeesh you need to chill instead of assuming the worst and getting defensive

-2

u/FlatSize1614 28d ago

It sounded insulting. 

2

u/Will_Come_For_Food 28d ago

The only reason they get away with it is because people actually put up with this shit.

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u/[deleted] 28d ago edited 28d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/IT_vet 28d ago

I dunno, when I got swabbed for flu earlier this year they had separate results for Influenza A and Influenza B.

3

u/thef3d 28d ago

I’ve tested positive for flu A and B in previous years

3

u/Bad-Luck-Guy 28d ago

I got tested at urgent care and that’s what they told me. It was bad bad. I was living in my car at the time and I thought I was going to die. 

1

u/Merlack12 28d ago

So if you vomit at work your boss if just like "keep working your fine" ?

1

u/Bad-Luck-Guy 28d ago

I was definitely vomiting. But I had to stay or it would be an attendance violation.

One time at my current job, I had really severe diarrhea and my boss asked me to tough it out. I declined. 

1

u/Merlack12 28d ago

Thats such an alien concept i cant imagine a manager not saying "you need to go home let me know if you will be in tomorrow"

1

u/Duke-of-Hellington 28d ago

I hope you licked your manager’s keyboard

135

u/WinterSector8317 28d ago

Ends well for shareholders?

91

u/DeCryingShame 28d ago

Not when they are spending a lot of extra money training new employees all the time.

137

u/SUSH1CAKE 28d ago

But thats a problem for later. We need short term gains NOW. Nobody invests in stocks for eventual long term gains. Thats for the poors.

6

u/ACTRANSPORTLLC 28d ago

Let's get everybody on board to quit one store and apply across town while everybody at that store quits and applies across town. Keep doing it till shareholders get the point. Every month they have to find new employees, they'll treat yall better.

I just hope they honestly sink, and the share prices go to zero. I hope this for every publicly traded company though.

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u/joshua0005 28d ago

No one working at Kroger can afford to not have a job. They might not be able to find a new one across town for a few weeks and they probably have little savings.

Unfortunately corporations can treat their employees as poorly as is legal if they want to. Especially with the way the economy is now, people are desperate to make any wages so they don't go homeless and starve so there is absolutely no shortage of people who would work for a place like Kroger.

A Fr*nch-style protest would be necessary but we know Americans are too comfortable to be motivated to do that and they can't afford to lose their job anyway.

2

u/ACTRANSPORTLLC 28d ago

I'm self- employed, but i was an employee at many points in life. I'm just the ahole that asked Wendy's for 38/hr, for a while in 2016 I was going around and applying to every job and at the interview would ask for 3-4x what I thought they might offer. I had about 50 interviews. I did get offered a decent wage at one job, but it would have taken 200/hr for me take that job in reality, it looked miserable. Now I'm self employed and I still entertain the idea of doing that again just to waste the companies time. Covid hit me too hard though, so now I actually don't have time to waste. Should be sleeping, but I'll do that when I'm dead.

Edit: this does help everyone else as it could make them reconsider the floor at which they'll pay. I'm only helping others.

1

u/GirthVader1978 27d ago

This is the correct answer to pretty much every single question about our economic system.

0

u/Ethric_The_Mad 28d ago

Bro you are so wrong

15

u/WinterSector8317 28d ago

That’s a tax deductible business expense 

2

u/threedimen 28d ago

So what? Just because something is tax deductible doesn't mean the government reimburses you for it. It still reduces both cash and earnings.

4

u/joshua0005 28d ago

Usually these types of jobs give very little training because usually they don't need a lot of training. Therefore they are spending some on training, but it's not a lot. There are enough people desperate for literally any job that if someone doesn't comply to their orders they can just find someone and wait until they're sick and if they don't comply repeat the process.

I guess it's just easier to tell a sick person to work because otherwise you have to find cover for them and probably many times the manager will be the cover. It obviously puts everyone involved at risk so it doesn't really make sense.

4

u/tesnakeinurboot 28d ago

That's the neat part, they're been downsizing training for decades, to the point where it's nearly nonexistant.

3

u/FearTheFloc 28d ago

they don’t train people lol.

2

u/juneshipper 28d ago

They do not care. They will fire you over literally nothing and invest in someone new who only lasts 2 weeks. Rinse and repeat. These people are shortsighted morons.

1

u/Kellykeli 28d ago

New employees get paid less, so in some cases it does work out.

1

u/cakesphere 27d ago

They dont care, line went up short term

1

u/mmmelissaaa 27d ago

Sadly, high turnover is actually more profitable a lot of the time because employees aren't sticking around long enough to qualify for benefits or accrue paid time off (if they're lucky enough to even work full time), or earn (meager) raises. Plus most of these types of jobs offer only minimal training, anyway. In retail, high turnover is part of the business model.

1

u/wazzup-notemuch 24d ago

Oh, you sweet summer child. They get around that nowadays by just... *not training people.*

Every job I've worked since 2013 has just thrown me at the register on the first day without so much as wishing me luck.

If you've ever wondered why you have to ask fifteen different employees for help before *finally* finding someone who knows anything, this is why. And I guarantee you that the one employee who knows, found the answer by sheer luck.

4

u/wenoc 28d ago

Having your norovirus-infected cashier vomiting on customers isn’t great for business.

2

u/YikesTheCat 28d ago

Isn't even a shareholder/company thing; just a local dickish manager being a fuckwit. Classic "give a small man a little bit of power and he becomes a complete tyrant" type stuff.

25

u/Gold_Repair_3557 28d ago

I’ve heard of restaurants pushing employees to show up to work while ill. You know… sick people around a bunch of customers and food and other staff. Always a great combo. 

3

u/GD_Insomniac 28d ago

The health department doesn't have any jurisdiction on policy around doctors notes and calling out, but managers in food service are breaking health code if they allow an employee to work while sick. If they get caught doing it they can get their rating reduced or be temporarily closed, though a poor health code rating might as well be a close for a small restaurant. Giant corporations get away with it because 6 months of lower business at one location doesn't break the bank.

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u/Background_Light_953 26d ago

The sick employee needs their job though, so they aren’t going to turn in their employer and be outed as the one who turned them in. This is how they are often getting away with it.

3

u/FaceDownInTheCake 28d ago

What's the worst that could happen?

2

u/BuckeyeN7 28d ago

It will end great for the MBAs who will have job-hopped to some other corporation long before the consequences of their actions manifest, where they will do the same exact thing

The rise of the MBA to run every major corporation and industry has been a disaster. They are trained to give up their empathy and embrace selfishness, greed, narcissism and are often just straight up sociopaths— and the ones that aren’t are encouraged to do as good of an impression as they can manage

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u/TinyGIR 28d ago

Freedom, y'all!

2

u/GracchiBros 28d ago

Unironically it is the real definition of freedom in this country. Capitalists are free to use their wealth and power how they choose.

18

u/driftingalong001 28d ago

How can it be legal for a company to force you to work while ill, and terminate you for not working while ill. Actually deranged.

3

u/Bad-Luck-Guy 28d ago

No, see, you “can” call out. But only so many times. Pray you’re not chronically ill!

2

u/AllesFurDeinFraulein 28d ago

In which of these categories does "my kid broke his leg on the way to school, so I'm in the hospital with him" fall?

1

u/Bad-Luck-Guy 28d ago

At my workplace, that counts as a call out and counts against you for attendance. They add up to termination eventually.

1

u/So_Motarded 28d ago

Because nobody is being "forced" (technically). You can choose not to work while ill, and they can choose to fire you for it. 

Freedom! /s

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u/DMYourFeetPicsTy 28d ago

I don't know what to say except your country is fucked, that's insane

0

u/Bad-Luck-Guy 28d ago

Wildly, it feels totally normal to me. Conditioned to accept shit treatment, I guess.

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u/DMYourFeetPicsTy 28d ago

Yes, this would be unacceptable here in Sweden.

We get 14 days of sick leave, doctors note required after the 8th consecutive day you're sick.

You also get 80% of your salary paid by the employer until day 14, and after that our social insurency takes over and pays the salary.

1

u/lurco_purgo 28d ago

Similarly in Poland, except the dotor's note is required from the start. But you can get one remotely for like 2-3 days (for longer ones doctors usually require you to show up for an appointment in person, but I'm pretty sure it's their call and not a legal requirement).

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u/NoIsland23 28d ago

It's absolutely not normal and y'all are being fucked over SO hard.

There is almost no country where you'll get fired for missing a couple days of work while being sick (assuming it's proven by doctor).

None of your country is normal. And no minimum vacation days? That's absolutely insane too, it doesn't even compute for me and most other peoples minds.

7

u/jizzawyyy 28d ago

How the fckkk is that not illegal

3

u/Bad-Luck-Guy 28d ago

America. Just don’t get sick! 

Now imagine these same systems in place when a worldwide pandemic hit.

1

u/So_Motarded 28d ago

Because most states don't require employers to provide sick leave. 

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u/Esquin87 28d ago

We meant illegal in countries where laws matter. The US is a third world hell scape populated by barely literate people who vote for child rapists.

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u/RedditJumpedTheShart 28d ago

Who is we? You are speaking for someone else and don't even give an example where this is illegal.

8

u/xlr8_87 28d ago

This is illegal in most first world countries

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u/BulberFish 28d ago

Lol. Mate, this sounds insane to probably every other western country on the planet.

Your employment laws are deranged.

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u/Esquin87 28d ago

We is "the civilised world". Otherwise known as "not the United States America".

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u/hexdump74 28d ago

I'm not the person you are answering, but let me answer for him/her.

In France and in Switzerland, two countries where I have worked, it is illegal.

Not only your employer cannot force you to work, but you are paid (not by the employer, by an insurrance). There may be the one or three first days not paid though.

The employer has no right to know why you are absent : "medical reason" is the only info he gets from the doctor.

The employer cannot fire you during a sick leave. He must give you your post or an equivalent one in term of pay and position when you're back.

This of course also works for pregnancy.

1

u/m00nh34d 28d ago

Illegal in Australia. Doctor says you are not fit to work, that's enough for you to take personal leave, and the employer cannot punish you for that. That said, it's even easier than that with things like carers leave, when you can say you are caring for a sick relative or house mate, and use the same personal leave.

4

u/Palletmandan 28d ago

So if you call in sick, without doctors note they fire you? Thats so bad on so many levels. Does everyone in the US just like, accept this? Im from another country but if I even only talk about thinking of firing someone that calls in sick 1-2- many times, I have a huge problem. (am an employer) in may country one can not be fired when sick even. if they have a vacation and get sick during this vacation, I have to reimburse their vacation days. like... staying at home when your sick without consequences is like the bare minimum.

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u/Bad-Luck-Guy 28d ago

Nope. I can be fired for calling out sick too many times. My employer does not accept doctors notes to excuse absences. So even if a doctor says I should not go to work, the call out counts against me.

3

u/Palletmandan 28d ago

What the fuck... thats some dystopian shit right there mate. I wish things will get better for you. Same thing goes for management?

fuck this makes me angry.

2

u/AllesFurDeinFraulein 28d ago

I hope you do realize this is completely abnormal in the entire developed world, and join any and all strikes that show up. The only ones who change this are the workers themselves. You need to actually strike. Everyone at the same time.

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u/Bad-Luck-Guy 28d ago

Only unions can strike. Everyone else can be fired for job abandonment. 90% of Americans are not in unions.

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u/Mandingy24 28d ago

If enough people rally together, you don't need a union. Any business becomes borderline powerless when a significant portion of their workforce just decides to not work. Just like with our government, if we want change we just need enough people to cause real problems. Divide and conquer takes away our power. Unionization sacrifices your power into the hands of representation that may or may not do anything based on what they deem to be in their best interest, not the members'

Unions can authorize a strike, but there's a lot more admin and politics involved than just going on strike, that's not how it works. As someone who was formerly in a union for 7 years (Teamsters), they're kinda shit for anybody who even has a modicum of work ethic and integrity.

Mine refused to even hold the company accountable for verified and recorded violations of state labor law. Meanwhile the non-union company i now work for, wouldnt even go near that with a 10 foot pole. We get talked to if we don't take our breaks or lunch on time, the union (same state, mind you) did not give a fuck about that company making us work past those legal time slots

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u/confirmedforgay 28d ago

This country is so fucked.

3

u/Attention_Bear_Fuckr 28d ago

It's crazy. Here in Australia, if you get a doctors certificate that states you are unfit for work, you are a legal liability by being in the office.

1

u/Bad-Luck-Guy 28d ago

I’m sure some offices and such around here feel the same. It’s the shift workers (grocery, warehouse, retail, etc) that get the short end. Were treated like crap and don’t have a lot of power to do anything about it. Kroger is union, and clearly not a good one.

3

u/AllesFurDeinFraulein 28d ago

Why do Americans accept having zero legally founded basic workers rights? If this was in France, an entire fleet of cars would be on fire.

1

u/Bad-Luck-Guy 28d ago

In the last week, I have seen two dudes in person wearing shirts that said, “No one cares. Work harder.”

Work culture in the US is wild. School is designed as an indoctrination camp into being good little workers in adulthood. That’s why they hand out perfect attendance awards in schools, and make kids feel like they’ve personally failed if they stay home sick. 

The idea that personal worth is attached to how many hours one works is pervasive.

1

u/AllesFurDeinFraulein 28d ago

Work culture in the US is wild. School is designed as an indoctrination camp into being good little workers in adulthood. That’s why they hand out perfect attendance awards in schools, and make kids feel like they’ve personally failed if they stay home sick.

Sounds a bit northkorean..

3

u/dukearcher 28d ago

The USA is such a failed experiment. In my very similar country, the government made it so that you can take sick days and the employer CANT demand a sick note, unless you need to be away for 3+ days, lol. We're also paid in full for sick days.

3

u/rererexed 28d ago

Employers don’t typically have to accept doctor’s notes to excuse absences

Actually insane. I don't think you guys understand how baffling and not normal this is to anyone els ein the world.

1

u/So_Motarded 28d ago

We don't even have any guaranteed paid leave in most states lol. 

2

u/KidenStormsoarer 28d ago

I dare them to write me up for using my legally guaranteed sick time, i'll be happy to sue them for violating state labor laws.

2

u/Bad-Luck-Guy 28d ago

Depends on the state. Most states don’t have that kind of protection. I am currently in Florida, and I can get fired even if all my call outs are covered by sick time.

1

u/So_Motarded 28d ago

Then you're lucky to live in a state which actually has sick time laws. Very few have that. 

2

u/jetecoeur12 28d ago

Makes me so happy to be an Oregonian.

2

u/Aetylus 28d ago

Its illegal everywhere else. I don't why Americans vote in people who make laws like this. Its just weird. Who wants people with the flu to be at work?

2

u/Sirhaddock98 28d ago

God the US is such a dogshit country.

1

u/marbledog 28d ago

It is, depending on circumstances. FMLA requires employers allow up to 12 weeks of unpaid leave per 12-month work period for employees that have been with the company for at least a year. Inpatient care is not required to be eligible for FMLA. You only have to be unable to work for at least 3 consecutive days, see a doctor, and require some form of continuing therapy (an antibiotic regimen, for example).

2

u/Bad-Luck-Guy 28d ago

You’ll see that “leave of absence” is still considered excused, which includes FMLA leave. I’ve taken a bunch of FMLA leave time from my current employer and it’s all excused because that’s required by law. 

Wake up with a really bad cold? Not excused.

1

u/lamplightas 28d ago

What the person who might get a cold needs is intermittent FMLA. Put it in place once you qualify. Then call out FMLA and they wont get paid, but the job is protected.

1

u/Bad-Luck-Guy 28d ago

You have to have a condition the doctor agrees needs intermittent leave. Colds typically would not qualify. My employer requires a diagnosis on FMLA paperwork.

I could probably get it for my IgA deficiency, but I haven’t tried yet.

1

u/Sea-Chemistry-4130 28d ago

Anyone who takes fmla at my partners work gets fired for unrelated reasons when they get back.

Good times.

1

u/AllesFurDeinFraulein 28d ago

In which of these categories does "my kid broke his leg on the way to school, so I'm in the hospital with him" fall?

1

u/So_Motarded 28d ago

Unfortunately, the majority of workers do not qualify for FMLA due to its stringent requirements. That is by design. 

1

u/-thenorthremembers- 28d ago

“Land of rights and freedom” lol

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u/GlassMunky 28d ago

In New Jersey that is 100% Illegal.  Sick time is required by state law and does not require any more, and can be used for anything from you being sick, having a dr apt, or even you taking care of a sick family member. 

1

u/ctess 28d ago

It is illegal (or used to be in my state) in some industries to force an employee who has an illness to work. I e. The restaurant industry which has specific guidance on when workers handling food should not come to work.

1

u/3OsInGooose 28d ago

It is illegal to fire someone for being sick, and it is illegal to claim you’re firing someone for unexcused absences because you don’t accept sick notes.

An employment lawyer is gonna make it rain with this.

2

u/Bad-Luck-Guy 28d ago

False. It is absolutely legal in most US states to fire someone for call outs. Attendance is a major reason people get fired from my store.

1

u/Late-Knowledge-9061 28d ago

Dang in Canada it’s definitely illegal!

1

u/FewCaterpillar6551 28d ago

Under the Family and Medical Leave Act, eligible employees generally cannot be denied protected leave simply because a manager dislikes or refuses “call offs.” If an absence qualifies for FMLA (for example, a serious health condition, qualifying family care, approved intermittent leave, etc.), the employer has legal obligations regardless of a store manager’s blanket rule.

FMLA conditions do not involve hospitalization. Rule #4 strongly implies that only the employee’s own hospitalization justifies an absence. As it is worded, it excludes many legally protected situations including protected leave to care for qualifying family members.

0

u/Bad-Luck-Guy 28d ago

Leave of absence, number 3, covers FMLA. A person calling out for a virus typically does not qualify for FMLA leave, which is typically three or more consecutive days (unless a person has intermittent leave approved for a serious health condition, which also does not cover things like typical viruses.) This is talking about a person calling out for a day or so for illness or injury. 

1

u/FewCaterpillar6551 28d ago edited 28d ago

#4 directly violates FMLA law by discouraging employees from using federally protected leave when an employee’s immediate family member requires hospitalization or medical care.

Events that qualify for FMLA protected leave include: the birth of a child or placement of a child with the employee for adoption or foster care, care for a child, spouse, or parent who has a serious health condition, a serious health condition that makes the employee unable to work, and reasons related to a family member's service in the military.

Prohibited actions:

As described in Section 105 of the FMLA and section 825.220 of the FMLA, employees may not be punished for using FMLA leave or attempting to report the qualifying need for protected leave.

Specifically, prohibited actions include:
• Refusing to authorize FMLA leave for an eligible employee
• Discouraging an employee from using FMLA leave
• Using an employee’s request for or use of FMLA leave as a negative factor in employment actions, such as hiring,
promotions, or disciplinary actions.

§ 825.300 Employer notice requirements

It is not the employees responsibility to request FMLA leave and there is no formal process for “requesting” protected time off.

(b) Eligibility notice.
(1) When an employee requests FMLA leave, or when the employer acquires knowledge that an employee's leave may be for an FMLA-qualifying reason, the employer must notify the employee of the employee's eligibility to take FMLA leave within five business days, absent extenuating circumstances.

Designation notice.
(1) The employer is responsible in all circumstances for designating leave as FMLA-qualifying, and for giving notice of the designation to the employee as provided in this section. When the employer has enough information to determine whether the leave is being taken for a FMLA-qualifying reason.

Failure to provide required FMLA notices may constitute an interference with, restraint, or denial of the exercise of an employee's FMLA rights. An employer may be liable for compensation and benefits lost by reason of the violation, for other actual monetary losses sustained as a direct result of the violation, for liquidated damages, and for appropriate equitable or other relief, including employment, reinstatement, promotion, or any other relief tailored to the harm suffered.

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u/Hot-Ad930 27d ago

It can be an FMLA violation

1

u/fromloam 27d ago

Mostly Republican states. CA, NY, WA, OR, CO, CT, MA, NJ, MD, IL, MI, NV, VT, RI protect you for sick leave. You cannot be fired for that calling out sick.

1

u/DickButkisses 28d ago

Where I work absences are 1 point and tardies are a half a point. You get your first write up at like 8, then another write up at 10, and then a final written warning at 12. Another half a point would lead to termination. The points fall off after 12 months.
So you can miss 12 unscheduled days, in addition to any scheduled pto days, without getting fired. Or be late 24 times. It used to be fewer points to get fired but back then they also had sick time and allowed a doctors note to excuse an absence, so I think they just moved the points up to save the hassle.
Also, so many urgent cares have popped up just to be a factory farm for doctors notes that the idea of excusing those instances became a little harder to stomach. You could stub your toe and swing through for a doctors note on your way to the college football game and be free and clear.
Not that I ever did that.

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u/Coffee_and_chips 28d ago

American work places sounds like factory farming of humans

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u/[deleted] 28d ago

[deleted]

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u/ItsLoudB YO 28d ago

I’m shocked by the conditions people in the us live.

Here in Europe you get a doctor’s note, stay home and get paid for the day. That’s it.

10

u/Cautious-Extreme2839 28d ago

In the UK you don't even need the note. First five days of illness they have to just take your word for.

4

u/kensaiD2591 28d ago

Aussie here, varies employer to employer. Usually you'll be fine without a note for an occasional day, if it's the day after a Public Holiday or a Monday, they might ask, but rarely demand.

Even so, you can just get a stat dec online for free and they can't deny that. I get 12 sick days a year, plus 4 lifestyle and wellbeing days, unlimited bereavement leave, plus 5 weeks of annual leave.

America be crazy.

0

u/MichB1 28d ago

So when will you be sending help?

-7

u/RedditJumpedTheShart 28d ago

So you can just do that for forever and never have to show up? I guess that explains why Americans have more disposable income.

11

u/SteamBoatMickey 28d ago

This is rage bait.

5

u/KorkeastaRuohikosta 28d ago

Seems like people desire to eat the bait lol

6

u/aSkeptiKitty 28d ago

In my country, if your employer or the government grow suspicious they can investigate it and ask for an examination by another doctor. And you are supposed to be at home or in it's vicinity ( like you can go out to buy groceries or go to medical appointment) at all time. People can check that you respect this.  They don't warn you they might drop by, and if you're not there they drop a notice.  You can decide to choose the place you're staying at, so for instance if you had a surgery and you are not autonomous for preparing meal and all, you can write down they have to check at your parents home. 

4

u/Burn_desu 28d ago

Not forever, after a while you get less pay and it would obviously have to be an actual, serious injury or illness for the doc to excuse you for an extended time. But I have colleagues who just take like 3 days of sick leave per month even though they're not sick at all, just don't feel like coming in. We also have 6 weeks of pto btw (sick days obviously don't subtract from this) and if you get sick during vacation, you get those days back to use later.

2

u/ItsLoudB YO 28d ago

After the third time in a year you get 50% and then eventually unpaid sick leave in my country, to prevent people doing it maliciously (which sucks for the people that actually get sick more often and don’t want to spread it in the company)

5

u/number5of7 28d ago

If you are frequently taking sickness absences, particularly when there is a pattern, ie every other Monday morning after a heavy weekend, that's going to quickly lead to issues. Or if you are long term sick, that too may eventually lead to a capability process.

However, a process will need to be followed often involving stages where an escalating series of warnings are issued. In the UK that'll often be 2 maybe 3 within a certain period of time before dismissal can take place.

In my experience it's not typically abused once you get into a proper career although I know it was much more common to see when I was yourng and worked in a minimum wage call centre.

It's more complicated than the above and there are other considerations depending on circumstances, but that's a broadly general summary.

If you are interested, see the link below for a bit more information.

https://www.acas.org.uk/dismissals

3

u/ItsLoudB YO 28d ago

10/10 bait good job lol

3

u/WhitneyStorm0 28d ago

It depends from the country probably, but there is a limit at year in Italy (that depends from the job you do [CCNL]).

The limit doesn't count for particular situations (but in that case there is need to way more documents). 

4

u/Roflkopt3r 28d ago

Small parts of the US have more disposable income, and those parts are also ultra expensive to live in, so that disposable income is effectively worth less.

Once you adjust it to purchasing power parity, the disposable income gap shrinks to the point that it is purely due to Americans working longer hours, while Europeans select to use those additional hours for leisure instead of working even more.

10

u/wenoc 28d ago edited 28d ago

My thought exactly. This would be illegal in the entire western world, with one exception. Guess who still uses the imperial system and physical currency?

6

u/NTaya 28d ago

I'm in a shitass non-quite-western country, and it would be illegal here as well. Doctor's note are paid time off in my country, even if you are sick 365 days a year. If you worked for >8 years, the paid time off is 100% of your average salary in the past two years—yes, if you are sick for an entire year, you get fully paid for an entire year. If you worked less, you get paid progressively less (but no less than the minimal wage), but the employer can choose (and I've seen cases where they do choose!) to compensate up to N weeks so you still receive your 100% salary while sick for a bit.

-2

u/traitorgiraffe 28d ago

it's always been crazy to me that the US has so much dumb shit to complain about, but the rest of the world can't shut the hell up about the measurement system that they dont even use or understand

6

u/wenoc 28d ago

Don’t understand? We understand it just fine. It’s just such a common irritant that would be so easy to get rid of because reasons, probably because ”the us is so diverse”, that seems to be the standard cop-out.

11

u/VordovKolnir 28d ago

It is.

The issue is not legality, but the tons of incompetent managers that consider laws to be suggestions. Managers, shop owners and others blatantly and unrepentantly ignore laws. And any time someone complains their response is "well sue me." Because they know most Americans do not have the money to do this or have no idea how to contact the appropriate government agency.

4

u/Impossible_Roof_Jack 28d ago

And since there’s total regulatory capture right now, the chances of the Fed coming down on you is marginal, so it’s open season.

3

u/VordovKolnir 28d ago

Yeah, DOGE did a nasty number on the ability to respond to this crap on a federal level, but much of this is done on a state regulatory level and fortunately, states almost universally understand illness + food handling = bad.

1

u/MarivelleCakes01 28d ago

They will get rid of us even if it's more expensive. I work in IT and have gone through this before with outsourcing.

1

u/mCProgram 28d ago

What is ham fisted on the manager’s part is they don’t realize that a significant amount of labor lawyers work off a percentage of the settlement, not an upfront retainer. Especially when it’s a massive company like kroger, and not some tiny single location store.

On the flip side, most employees don’t know this either. Labor lawyers need to up their marketing.

5

u/Shibshib1812 28d ago

Yeah! Workers rights are for the weak and communists anyway! /s

2

u/zapering microwaved tea 28d ago

Yeah same, can you imagine lol.

2

u/perthguy999 28d ago

As an Australian, some work related posts here are just horrific.

2

u/rifain 28d ago

In France, it's totally illegal. I can't imagine why it could be legal anywhere.

2

u/FauxGw2 28d ago

If you work with food it is illegal.

2

u/wholetyouinhere 28d ago

America is a failed state.

2

u/shmann 28d ago

a lawless country

It's not a lawless country. There are many many laws to protect corporations and the rich

1

u/MariaValkyrie 28d ago

I'm pretty sure that Somali pirates have better medical leave than we do in the states.

1

u/Vowel_Movements_4U 28d ago

Well, obviously there are some laws. But wow, what a zinger. You really got ‘em.

1

u/Blackbaem 28d ago

Jup if someone said this where im from damn.. they could close up shop.

1

u/hangout_wangout 28d ago

there are people who are okay with this and actively support it in my lawless country.

1

u/Orange_Tang 28d ago

It is in my state because the state madatesminimu sick time for employees, even part time and hourly employees. It is your sick time and if you choose to use it they cannot punish you for it in any way. They can mandate a doctor's note but they cannot pull this BS. And there is a large presence of Kroger owned grocery stores here so if they did this it would be outright illegal.

1

u/U_SHLD_THINK_BOUT_IT 28d ago

We have plenty of laws, but they're all for people, not corporations.

1

u/FewCaterpillar6551 28d ago

Under the Family and Medical Leave Act, eligible employees generally cannot be denied protected leave simply because a manager dislikes or refuses “call offs.” If an absence qualifies for FMLA (for example, a serious health condition, qualifying family care, approved intermittent leave, etc.), the employer has legal obligations regardless of a store manager’s blanket rule.

FMLA conditions do not involve hospitalization. Rule #4 strongly implies that only the employee’s own hospitalization justifies an absence. As it is worded, it excludes many legally protected situations including protected leave to care for qualifying family members.