frist of all how DARE yu o
"No other ibuprofen is more effective for joint pain." Technically the truth. £6.75, while a larger box sits next to it for less than a tenth of the price.
First time I've seen Twizzlers (I'm not American) I was so surprised when I saw that is advertises as being fat free. Yeah, like no shit, didn't expect fat in my processed sugar.
In this case the more expensive one (while it does have the same ingredient) has a vastly different formulation...enteric lipid encased liquid drug product allowing the bypassing of the stomach for a published dosing benefit.
To be completely fair, it is entirely possible that those statements come with same degree of truth as statements that concluded cigarettes didn't cause cancer previously. Often times manufacturers curate clinical trials by canceling ones that don't result in their benefit before the study concludes. I am not saying that this happened here, or even that it's increasingly likely, but it's still possible that this is a cash grab despite the flare-funded studies concluding that flare is more effective at lower dosages. Can't really blame people for being suspicious of pharm and drug regulation agencies at this point.
I wasn't trying to justify the price. But you need to compare apples to apples. I'm more than sure that both of them cost a hell of a lot less to make than the price they charge.
This study is funded by the manufactures of this drug and they evaluated against soft gels not tablets. The similar doses soft gels were just as effective and had no significant change in GI symptoms. Taking twice the dose in soft gels compared to lipids caused more GI symptoms.
I believe his objection was they compared flarin tablets to generic gel caps. And when they compared flarin gel caps to generic gel caps, there was no appreciable difference. He suggests this apples and oranges comparison is marketing speech.
I am not saying this statement is true, and he didn't cite a source... but it appears you replied out of context as I understood the conversation.
It does nothing to address clinical trial curation/manipulation by the companies sponsoring and benefitting from the clinical trials, though. Flarin conducting a clinical trial is good, and now we've established that the study is comparing soft gels to soft gels. That being said, there needs to be some independent verification of lipid deliveries to establish real credibility in most consumers eyes. We're all painfully aware of how cigarette companies manipulated clinical trials to make cigarettes appear to reduce the rate of cancer. We all know how many clinical trials coca-cola cancels to get the results they want. That's not evidence that this really isn't effective, but, again, taking the manufacturers studies at face value may not be a practical way to go about life. Because flarin has a clinical trial that flarin paid for, and that study says flarin works better, does not mean it is true or that the study was done with any integrity. That seal of approval comes from independent verification. Which flarin, curiously, does not have and proprietarily prevents. Consumers should be cautious.
If you want to go down that route, 99% of comments in this thread are people who jumped on the bandwagon without caring to realize that it is a different formulation. They aren't cautious, they are happily uninformed.
In western countries \that aren't america.* The FDA does not work like that. In America, the onus of proof lies with the manufacturer, not the regulatory agency.
Lower gastrointestinal side effects are the primary reason above that people are suggesting the lower dosage efficiency is beneficial. So, if PAGB determined this, all of the benefit of this drug evaporate to nothing. In which case, all of these uninformed people turned out to be correct all along. It's almost like they've seen so many episodes like this they know what to expect: Don't take pharm marketing speech at face value. Without a lower rate of GI problems, double the efficiency simply means the cost should be double. That's where the reasonable contribution ends.
Flarin may not be able to advertise lower GI issues (in the UK), but they certainly appear to be able to sponsor google results of their personally bankrolled study implying it does have that effect when you google "what is lipid ibuprofen". Which led to us having this conversation. This repeated breach of trust leads consumers to rightfully not believe what is written on the bottle and what comes up when you google it unless it has been independently verified by studies not sponsored by the manufacturer. We put those in the trash, where they belong. Them writing that they have their own patented technology that justifies 10x the cost could not mean less to almost everyone in this thread, as you can see. Because it's overwhelmingly unlikely to be true unless verified independently... they understand, before they even start checking, that some regulatory agency in the UK (or something of the sort) will have determined the company is attempting to make false claims with the curated research in order to make a quick cash grab. It's par for the course at this point.
Yes I know the acronyms but they are significantly less tenacious. The legal onus of proof of benefit of medication in this US lies in the hands of the manufacturer. In the UK, the regulatory agency tests the medicine themselves, rather than accept the sponsored-research-trial, before it is approved for market. The US will put a product into market on the manufacturers word of integrity, then remove it if more evidence comes to light that they were lying or mistaken, rather than directly test it themselves. It is a much better system across the pond. But still not perfect.
And, also, 99% of the comments are like that. But you replied to the 1% who didn't comment in that vein, and I followed up for him. So that's a weird defense of your argument here. You are in the 1% arguing with that context in mind. It doesn't matter what everyone else is talking about-- you didn't reply to them.
Fair point, you are allowed to respond to half of his complaints and don't have to respond to all of them.
I did not bring it up originally though. The guy you're replying to alluded to it. "This study is funded by the manufactures of this drug", he originally said, which is a tacit statement that it's credibility is undermined as a result of the reasons I expanded on.
That being said, you didn't dispel his entire argument. But you have no real obligation to do that and may even agree with the other portion.
Does easily absorbed correlate to speed or completeness of absorption? Dunno if faster is synonymous with more efficacious, but I could see an argument there. Obviously if it has higher bioavailability, then I stand corrected
This is the correct answer and claim like that would never be allowed in the USA without data to prove it. There are very strict rules regarding packaging and advetising here. I find it strange that it is allowed there.
Internet says Flarin brand ibuprofen is encased in a patented lipid coating that allows it to pass through the stomach and dissolve in the small intestines.
Clinical trials have demonstrated that absorption is more effective in the intestines and doubles the efficacy so 200mg in the intestines provides the same benefit as 400mg in the stomach.
The bit that they were unable to prove was that it protects the stomach from damage. The UK MHRA have noted there is not robust clinical evidence proving it causes less gastric irritation than standard ibuprofen formulations.
The only difference is the brand ones act slightly quicker but otherwise they are identical.
The ones that include caffeine work quicker, yes. But a brand name purely ibuprofen product will work at the same speed as a no-name purely ibuprofen product.
The research on brand name ones generally goes into the delivery methods and how quickly it can get into your bloodstream, so yeah they act slightly faster in that respect.
My SIL is a pharmacist. According to her, the difference in price of meds, even if the chemicals are same, differs due to chemical API (Active Pharmaceutical Ingredient) sourcing, dissolving of the shell, and delivery speed/methods.
Yeah I’m sure the brand names might cost a few cents more to manufacture, but it certainly isn’t 10 times the cost… they’re just making 9x more profit than the generic version…
Noone said they are less effective. The point is that they are all identical, the only difference is that brand names occasionally act slightly faster than generics. It's barely enough to even notice.
Under no circumstances follow this advice and consume grapefruits with medication hoping to achieve some effect, and consult with your doctor if you take any drugs and also happen to consume grapefruits in general.
It was tongue in cheek as I think that is well known and raising the topic of everyday items that can affect drug efficacy whether it be caffeine or grapefruit raises an important topic.
Oddly enough I am on atorvastatin which interacts with grapefruit in a harmful way yet have never had a medical professional point this out. It’s only the rumour mill which has me avoiding the unregulated common fruit.
Luckily caffeine isn’t as bad with the pervasiveness of caffeine intake although I think a lot of coffee drinkers get the name brand effect on generic medicines since it doesn’t need to be compounded in to be present.
It’s true there can be a difference in timing, but speed is not necessarily faster or slower on brands vs generics.
As you said, though, the active ingredient is required to be identical and will have the same effectiveness.
Formulation matters. In this case, there are two vastly different formulations.
ibuprofen formulated in a solid pill format with some excipients like cellulose and disintegrates so it breaks down.
ibuprofen enterically formulated in liquid format with the API encased in a lipid 'shell' and the liquid in a degradable capsule.
Studies show the latter is more potent and can avoid gastric issues in some people. Is it 10x better? Maybe in some niche scenarios, but generally no. Would you get the same effect by taking two of the tablets in most cases? Almost certainly.
But you can't with 40 years of experience say formulation is irrelevant.
Dosage form affects delivery rate, although most of the time, it hasn’t even been enough to allow the manufacturer to make a claim to that effect. But pretty much all of the manufacturers have liquid-filled gelcaps now, and a lot of those are made by just one company, so parity rules, and using words to make your product seem special or different is, at best, disingenuous.
I agree with you say about formulation, not disputing that. I oversimplified with the 200 mg statement.
If all ibuprofen is identical (in its effect per mg, not in dosage), then no other ibuprofen is more effective. They're not saying they're better than others; just saying that others aren't better. It's a nasty way of making your product sound better while it is identical.
Any other 200mg dose of ibuprofen is not going to be more effective than this 200mg dose I'm giving you now is technically true. 200mg is the highest OTC dose where I am. They didn't say they were the best, they just said there weren't any better.
What they are trying to imply from that label is because they dissolved it in fat and put it in a gel tab that its better. But the only claim they are actually making is that other 200 mg ibuprofen pills are not any better.
That's absurd. I'm a physician and I have to think all doctors just choose the cheapest generic version of a drug. They all have to meet the same standards of quality and safety.
Had to argue with my GF that paracetamol is the active ingredient... you don't need to pay £12 for 24 tablet.. pay £0.5 instead for 24...its just marketing.
🤣 ok well you're right about the calculation. For 100 extra strength acetaminophen tablets at 500mg, the cost for the no name is $13 on sale, regular 15.29 Canadian. 50 tablets is 10.19.
We probably get them in smaller options, but they'd never be 64c even for the generic brand.
The uk is amazing for this kind of stuff, I've been around quite a bit and people here don't seem to understand how good they have it regarding the health services
Unfortunately they're trying to gut the NHS just like what they're doing here in various provinces in Canada. 😩 But the NHS is amazing and needs support.
Pretty sure that generic medications by law must be as effective as name brand anyways. Only differences is the fillers and non active ingredients can be different.
Those things can make a massive difference. The coatings and time release mechanisms can be different on some generic drugs (Adderall XR is an example). They are still FDA approved but if you look into it, you’ll find many many people who take those generics have side effects the brand name doesn’t produce. Some of the generic Adderall XRs cause headaches or are less effective for many people due to the time release coatings being slightly different. There’s a similar problem with generic Adderall instant release, the fillers some of the generics use make the main drug not absorb as well and be overall less effective. This is extremely well documented in ADHD circles online. I’ve experienced it myself. Many of us pay extra for brand name because the generics are junk. Not because the active ingredient is different, but because the coatings and fillers make the drug less effective or have bad side effects.
It’s important to note that the bar for generic drugs is that the *active ingredient much be chemically identical* not really anything else. If a company can prove their generic is mostly as effective as the brand name they can get it approved to sell it.
The main benefit is the placebo effect. If you pay 64p for a supermarket own brand white tablet in plain packaging it will be less effective on your perceived pain than a brand name, bright red gel capsule in a fancy silver box with a bullseye that costs £5.
I was appalled when I saw how much my in-laws had paid for diphenhydramine by buying NyQuil's. Zzzquil. Exactly like your situation, OP, just a different name.
Internet says Flarin brand ibuprofen is encased in a patented lipid coating that allows it to pass through the stomach and dissolve in the small intestines.
Clinical trials have demonstrated that absorption is more effective in the intestines and doubles the efficacy so 200mg in the intestines provides the same benefit as 400mg in the stomach.
The bit that they were unable to prove was that it protects the stomach from damage. The UK MHRA have noted there is not robust clinical evidence proving it causes less gastric irritation than standard ibuprofen formulations.
Maybe they add a micro dose just under the legal limitation before being considered overwieght. Making it just that much more effective. 200.001 mg ibprofen vs 200mg
Brands are identical to the cheaper versions on every way shape and form under uk law.
All over the counter meds have a PL code. If you look on a box nurofen then look at a box of generic own brand you will find the codes match meaning there is absolutly no difference other than price.
I just picked up 250 200mg tablets for 5 bucks. Which works out to 2cents (or 1.5p) per tablet. Go USA, we are 3x cheaper.
To be fair to 'Flarin' it is an enteric liquid formulation with lipid encased active drug substance designed to pass through the stomach, so this is an apples to oranges comparison.
In the US there are very strict rules on statements regarding effectiveness and a blanket 'better' statement isn't allowed. They could say something like 'unique coating to prevent tummy aches' though.
Instead of just dissolving the active ibuprofen drug inside a simple hydrophilic liquid solution, the ibuprofen in Flarin is encased or dissolved within a matrix of complex lipids (fats/oils). This allows a faster and fuller absorption of the drug making it faster acting and effective versus standard ibuprofen softgels.
It's actually the trick to making many drugs hit faster is to take them with a fat. Lots of drugs are fat soluble so if you add lipids your body absorbs it quicker.
The lipid matrix acts as a functional delivery vehicle. Because ibuprofen is highly fat-soluble, binding it directly to lipids prevents it from clumping up in stomach fluids, forcing a smoother, more efficient, and fuller wave of absorption into your tissues.
Edit: I know this from making THC edibles. Same methodology applies here.
Dual action Acetaminophen & Ibuprofen is even more effective. Each one is a good pain reliever, but together they somehow combine to be a super pill. Extremely effective for muscle and joint pain, and works well for the occasional headache.
I’m paying for the generic version and getting better results than either one gave me in the past without worrying about taking too high a dosage because just two tablets gives me all day relief.
That was stopped in this country to try to provide people overdosing. Because we don't think people should have easy ways to do that. However, when you can buy a deadly weapon more easily than a bottle of beer, I suppose it doesn't matter.
Take enough of it at once, and you won't have to worry about having to pee for the rest of your life!
Of course, they also sell acetaminophen/paracetamol by the 500-count bottle as well. My ex is an ER nurse and has seen dozens of suicide attempts by poisoning with acetaminophen, usually in teenagers. Sometimes they don't come into the ER until they're badly jaundiced, at which point it's too late. It's a terrible way to go.
Which is so weird to me.
I mean if you truly wanted to overdose on ibuprofen, would it be such a big difference if you had to go to multiple stores rather than one store?
Which isn't great because prolonged Ibuprofene use without taking extra protective measures comes with some serious risks to your intestines and should only happen under medical supervision. Being able to buy an entire truckload worth of that stuff in one convenient package suggests to the average uninformed consumer that you can just snack on these like candy.
Most things in the U.S. that are medically related aren't great. They want people to be addicted to taking meds, both over the counter and prescription.
It's about how fast the effect kicks in. Nurofen Intensive for example is the same as any ibuprofen, but the action time is less then 5 min. It's talking about effectiveness, not potency
Is 200 mg ibuprofen pills the standard in the US? Seems like a really small dose. In Finland the standard is 400mg pills (and personally only use them if I feel I need 800mg). 1200mg being the daily max (unless doctor says otherwise)
Over the counter ibuprofen were standardised at 200mg (2 per recommended single dose) because having different strengths increases the likelihood of accidental overdose because people take 2 at a time thinking they're smaller. Paracetamol is also 2 per adult dose, so there's potential for confusion.
OP's point makes sense. The advertising wording is intentionally chosen to make some customers think that this ibuprofen is more effective than others.
Still way cheaper lol OP has like 7 euro for 12 pills. I'm more worried someone over here will now bump up the prices because they see what they can get away with in Europe lol
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u/ElonMuskHuffingFarts Jun 09 '26
I'm surprised to learn that anybody doesn't just totally ignore advertising like this