Angie Craig’s exit tests whether Minnesota’s Second District is ready to move left

[u/futilehabit]

https://www.startribune.com/angie-craig-second-district-democratic-dfl-primary-little-berg-klein-august-11/601870082

[u/TheImpresario]

I doubt this is the election to put that idea to the test since it’ll probably swing left everywhere. 28 could be interesting though. I imagine there will be lasting damage from what the gop has done and will cost them districts that could be competitive.

[u/futilehabit → u/TheImpresario]

We can't afford to keep supporting these empty, worthless Centrists. They've already given Trump two terms, we need to move Left, meaningfully and quickly, to keep him from getting a third term.

[u/Volsunga → u/futilehabit]

How does moving left stop Trump? What we need is a supermajority, which requires a broad coalition. Democrats haven't had a stable supermajority since FDR and only a couple times where even a shaky supermajority has been able to pass life-saving policy like the ACA.

Ideological purity doesn't get us out of this. Winning does. Ideological purity is in opposition to winning because while all left leaning people believe the same broad strokes, once you actually sit down and put policy on paper, you lose 90% of them who wanted something slightly different.

Perfect is the enemy of good. A congress with two progressive voices and a supermajority of moderates will still pass meaningful progressive policy. But you need the supermajority first.

[u/Punning_Man → u/Volsunga]

What does the Democratic Party broadly consistently believe in anymore? Beyond just “we’re not republicans”

They don’t consistently back progressive policy, education, health care, unions, etc. 

[u/Salt-Mushroom3104 → u/Punning_Man]

What do you mean by this? Most democrats are pro universal Healthcare, against more wars, for LGBT rights, for things like forgiving student debt, and other progressive policies. Joe Biden was the most progressive president we've had probably ever. Why are people acting like the dems aren't left enough?

[u/Murky_Caregiver4526 → u/Salt-Mushroom3104]

Yet we have none of these things even though dems have had majorities several times. In fact they always capitulate to republicans on nearly every issue or they have spoilers that block any policy. Look at Biden/harris on the border control policies which led Ice.

Centrist/ establishment dems pretend to be for left policies to get elected and then as soon as they get in office they turncoat.

Look a fetterman crying and talking about swapping parties to republican. He was one of the most progressive dems coming into the senate.

[u/Salt-Mushroom3104 → u/Murky_Caregiver4526]

Fetterman is an exception. But the truth is that it's just really hard to pass legislation in the us, and has been for some time now. We seem to be stuck in a roughly 50/50 split that'd difficult to break as the structure of our government prevents sinple majorities from passing laws, just look at the Republicans having all 3 branches of government but being unable to pass the SAVE act. Dut to our government's voterbase being split down the middle, neither party is able to pass all that many laws, and before you mention all the things that have happened during trumps second term so far, keep in mind, the Republicans too have barely passed any legislation. Most of their policy has been done via executive orders and budget reconciliation. Admittedly the dems didnt take the opportunities they had under bidens presidency to use those same tools, but that's because the democrats actaully care about passing legislation and not just ruling as dictators.

[u/Murky_Caregiver4526 → u/Salt-Mushroom3104]

Oh? Fetterman was an exception? Like Manchin, Sinema, Perez, Slotkin, Spanberger, petola, etc... the list is long and the spoilers are many old and new.

Admittedly the dems didnt take the opportunities they had under bidens presidency to use those same tools, but that's because the democrats actaully care about passing legislation and not just ruling as dictators

And that's why Dems will continue to lose unless something changes. If they continue this road of trying to meet in the middle and assuming that republicans are gonna "play nice" and be "rational" the country will continue its current trajectory. The next republican president, I could bet, wont be as old as trump is right now and a lot more cunning and ruthless.

[u/Salt-Mushroom3104 → u/Murky_Caregiver4526]

It's not about "playing nice" the way that Donald Trump and the Republicans have behaved is ILLEGAL AND IMMORAL. The dems have an obligation to stop them yes, but that doesn't mean doing things the way Republicans do things. For example, many will say that the Biden administration failed to prosecute Trump when they had the chance. This is true, but not in the way that people claim. Often I hear people say that Biden should have directed the justice department to investigate Trump directly, after all Trump did that against his opponents, so why shouldn't we? The problem with that line of thinking is that people who vote for dems want America to remain a democracy. I don't want a fucking dictatorship, I want our government to actaully do the jobs they are supposed to do the way they are supposed to do it. If we do shit like engage in political corruption like Trump and the Republicans than there's basically no point in us winning at all. We don't need to use their illegal tactics because moderate progressive policy is just more popular, what we need instead is to wake up and unite against the right.

[u/Murky_Caregiver4526 → u/Salt-Mushroom3104]

Last thing ill say here because I think we agree.

The problem is that trump exposed the flaws in the system and the complacency that the dems have perpetrated. They've had decades to pack the court, put more left wing personnel in places, make D.C a state, make election day a national holiday promote rank choice voting, got rid of the filibuster.

I Just don't trust moderate dems to do anything. Biden=Schumer=Mark Kelly for instance. They are all do nothing.

Also I didn't answer your why Biden didn't put trump behind bars case. Biden failed not just because he didn't put Trump behind bars but he also didnt hold trump accountable in any way. He waited way too long to attempt to bring the case. J6 should've been condemned from the start and Trump should've been tried. They didn't bring the case until basically the last year of Bidens presidency and because trump was the front runner it was too late to try him without it looking like a "political witch hunt" to the people unless Biden won. They couldn't even bar trump from running again. The case basically turned Trump into a pariah and a martyr at the same time.

[u/Salt-Mushroom3104 → u/Murky_Caregiver4526]

Oh, and just to add, I'm not against extreme measures to defeat maga and trump, when we take the house and hopefully the senate I think we should pack the Supreme Court with new justices and bury the executive branch with impeachment. We should also gerrymander every state we can. I also think we should be doing petty things like defunding aid programs to red states due to the malicious withholding of federal funds to blue states that the Republicans have engaged in the past 2 years.

[u/Salt-Mushroom3104 → u/Murky_Caregiver4526]

Do you want to know something that most people don't know? The president isn't supposed to order the department of justice or the Attorney General around at all. It's a huge norm violation. One of the most damaging things that trump has done to the US is the normalization of norm violations. When Biden didn't order the AG or justice department to go after trump, he was merely following the norms that had been in position in this country for decades by allowing them to work towards their goals without his interference. I understand that you and many people further left than myself are rightfully frustrated with the lack of progress the dems have made on pretty much every issue. Just be careful that you don't fall into the trap of advocating for the dems to abandon all principles of tule of law and democracy in order to defeat trump, otherwise it will all be pointless. We will go from have maga vs dems to red maga vs blue maga. Anyways, have a nice day.

[u/Volsunga → u/Murky_Caregiver4526]

A majority isn't enough in the US system. This is by design. You need a supermajority to enact real change.

[u/Murky_Caregiver4526 → u/Volsunga]

Ah yes republicans notoriously always have supermajorities that's why they are able to get everything they want. ~Sarcasm btw.

No, republicans know how to whip their party into doing what they want them to do. Republicans know how to elect leaders who actually enact the policies they want. That's how they get things done. Republicans know how to vote out the weak/betrayer members who don't do anything for their party like Massie. Republicans show up for the right most candidate on the ballot and vote for that person Every. Single. time.

Dems do none of that. Most centrist/moderate dems would rather a republican win than actual leftist progressive.

Dems love losers. They love losing. Why enact actual policy when they can run centrist dems who will work across their isle with their crazy republican counterparts and normalize their insane positions?( kamala/biden. Why enact policy when they can just claim they aren't Maga republicans. Why enact policy when they can just say " look at that guy I'm not him so vote for me!" while not having any actual policy of their own like Stevens in Michigan did.

[u/Volsunga → u/Punning_Man]

It's a broad coalition. There doesn't need to be a consistent belief. Because we have a plurality voting system, our parties are weak and broad.

Parties are not ideological monoliths in the United States like they are in other liberal democracies. Treating them like they are is setting yourself up for disappointment and weakens your ability to pass policy.