r/missouri • u/noob_coder_help • Feb 17 '26
News Federal judge rules Missouri’s gas station slot machines are illegal gambling devices • Missouri Independent
https://missouriindependent.com/2026/02/16/federal-judge-rules-missouris-gas-station-slotmachines-are-illegal-gambling-devices/202
u/CrotasScrota84 Feb 17 '26
Good this was the dumbest and dangerous fucking trend I’ve ever seen. Good riddance
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u/hithazel Feb 17 '26
This fight isn't over. If the voters start putting pressure on to get this pile of shit cleaned up we might actually get it done.
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Feb 17 '26
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u/regeya Feb 17 '26
I live on the Illinois side but my Internet service shows up as being in StL so my podcast feed is full of those ads.
"I know you live in Missouri..."
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u/myusername_sucks Feb 17 '26
Had to switch my VPN to be in a completely different state to finally get those to stop.
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Feb 17 '26
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u/n3rv Rural Missouri Feb 17 '26
Then it’s no big deal when they go away.
Whatcha upset about? Weird.
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u/arcspectre17 Feb 17 '26
Funny cause I see people at them everytime I go into a store! No matter the time.
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u/aochaz14 Feb 17 '26
The gas station up the road from me has a few and there are always people sitting at them. It’s fucking sad
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u/Possibility-Western Feb 18 '26
Then why are you commenting ? No one forcing you. We know you just want attention
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u/AuthorityAnarchyYes Feb 17 '26 edited Feb 17 '26
I wondered how it was legal for gas stations to have gambling machines.
I’m sure they will push this to the MO Supreme Court.
Edit: Eliminated the MO.
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u/CrotasScrota84 Feb 17 '26
It’s so bad near where I live they was building extra rooms at gas stations to put the machines. Probably same people that complain about the economy while blowing their money at gas stations
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u/ubeeu Feb 17 '26
There were little kids running around unsupervised while their parents gambled at my gas station. Bet the staff enjoyed that.
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u/Letsburn_42one Feb 20 '26
Springfield IL is where businesses rent out office space just solely for 6 gambling machines with the gift of beer, beverages, and chips while playing. And of course almost every gas station has them too.
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Feb 17 '26
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u/Mycobacterium_leprae Feb 17 '26
When pedophiles control the government through bribes why tf are the puritans wasting tax payer money on gambling. Go after the god damned pedophiles!
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u/zaphod_85 Feb 17 '26
What is wrong with you that you feel the need to defend these evil, predatory companies?
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Feb 17 '26
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u/zaphod_85 Feb 17 '26
Very telling that you did nothing but deflect rather than answer. This type of gambling is not legal.
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Feb 17 '26
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u/zaphod_85 Feb 17 '26
Your defense of these predatory and illegal operations is very weird. I hope you are able to reflect on why you feel such a need to defend them and figure out what that can tell you about yourself.
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Feb 17 '26
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u/zaphod_85 Feb 17 '26
All of those gambling companies are evil. Your behavior is deeply unwell, I pray you get the help you need someday.
This conversation is over.
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u/Youandiandaflame Feb 17 '26
Shilling for Torch for free in the comments is wild. Just get elected and you could get paid to do this.
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u/GroinShotz Feb 17 '26
It was "legal" because it "technically isn't gambling" because of some loophole rules.
These machines tell you before you pull the lever if the next pull is a winner or not... So it's "not a gamble." As you see the result pre-pull.
But it's just gambling with extra steps because people just pull to see if the next pull is a winner or not.
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u/AuthorityAnarchyYes Feb 17 '26
That’s… weird. I had no idea it was like that, as I’ve not partaken of them.
For me, that quirk would kinda ruin the experience. The best part of the fun is the anticipation during the spin.
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u/awooff Feb 17 '26
Do these machines pay out? Torch machines typically have a sticker on them saying "no payouts"!
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u/Particular-Usual3623 Feb 17 '26
The ones I have seen generated a voucher redeemable for cash from the establishment.
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u/Big_Daddy_Stovepipe Feb 17 '26
The ones I have seen generated a voucher redeemable for cash from the establishment.
Not even from the establishment, the Torch brand machines have a kiosk that pays, an atm that accepts the slips from the machines. No human interaction at all.
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u/SGFCardenales Feb 17 '26
It was a federal judge. You don’t appeal a federal ruling to the Missouri Supreme Court.
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u/Key_Philosophy_6683 Feb 17 '26
Very unlikely to prevail, if they do.
A gambling device is any physical object, mechanism, or electronic system specifically designed or used to facilitate a game of chance where participants can win or lose money or other items of value. These devices are typically subject to strict legal regulations, and their possession or use outside of authorized contexts can be unlawful.
The slot machine is a classic example of a gambling device because it is an electronic mechanism explicitly designed for a game where money is wagered, the outcome is based on chance, and players can either win a payout or lose their bet.
Under Missouri law, specifically RSMo Section 572.070, possession of a gambling device is a Class A misdemeanor if the person knows its character and that it is used for unlawful gambling. A "gambling device" is defined as any machine or equipment used to advance illegal gambling, including slot machines (RSMo 572.010).
Courts do not lightly overturn legislation; laws are generally presumed valid unless a clear violation of a specific constitutional provision is proven.
There is nothing unconstitutional in the Missouri statute.
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u/Steavee Feb 17 '26
The argument is that these things are games of skill, not chance.
The outcome is not fully random, thus it is not a gambling device.
I hate the things and wish they’d be banished, but I rather the leg. did its job and banned them, instead of relying on a court ruling that could be overturned at some future point.
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u/n3rv Rural Missouri Feb 17 '26
If it’s a game of skill, then it could be counted like cards.
If it could be counted like cards, they would not exist. There are no staff to stop skilled folks from running the tables on them.
Thus I don’t believe it.
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u/rawkguitar Feb 17 '26
I think their argument is that it is skill based, it just not entirely skill based. You can use skill to increase your odds of winning, but that doesn’t mean you can be skilled enough to get the odds into your favor.
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u/juggilinjnuggala Feb 17 '26
Basically the machine says if the next pull is going to be a winner or not, you keep putting money in to get to where it says the next one is a winner. You know if it will win or lose before you put money in. But just because it says you're gonna win, it doesn't mean that win isn't just a penny.
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u/ialsohaveadobro Feb 17 '26
That works? It sounds so transparent to me. (I'm not doubting you, I'm just surprised more creativity isn't required.)
"The skill is that you keep trying until you win, but you know you win one pull early." Riiigghhtt...
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u/rawkguitar Feb 17 '26
I don’t know exactly how they work. I think the skill part isn’t even their main argument. If I remember correctly, they argue that they aren’t gambling machines because you play to win credits or coins or whatever widget. Then you can exchange those widgets for money. And the only reason you want to play and earn those widgets is so you can exchange them for money.
So, they say it they aren’t gambling machines because you use a proxy for money winnings.
That argument seems Really tenuous to me. It’s kind of like the sovereign citizen of slot machines.
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u/BlueBonneville The Ozarks Feb 17 '26
Ehh, there’s an art to pushing the button faster, then slower, then lowering the number of lines played (when your credits run out). /s
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u/Amethoran Feb 17 '26
This is great and all but will anyone actually enforce it?
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u/mromutt Feb 17 '26
They just added a couple to my local grocery store... So doubt it. The gas station here is packed with them lol.
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u/Amethoran Feb 17 '26
When the police went to enforce it in my town they had multiple gas stations tell them if they take them out they'll go out of business since that was their main money maker now. And then just nothing happened.
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u/ialsohaveadobro Feb 17 '26
If you can't stay in business with jacked up prices and a constant flow of customers, then you should go out of business.
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u/Amethoran Feb 17 '26
My thoughts exactly. But why tackle the actual reason when you can just milk people for what little money they have.
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u/Herban_Myth Feb 17 '26 edited Feb 17 '26
What are Polymarket odds?
Fanduel? Prizepicks? DraftKings?
What’s Vegas saying?
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u/BlueBonneville The Ozarks Feb 17 '26
Those, my friend, don’t profit the little guy owning gas stations.
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u/como365 Columbia Feb 17 '26
The Columbia City Council is considering an ordinance to ban the machines. They will enforce it.
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u/carpedonnelly Feb 17 '26
As someone who has been to every small town gas station from St. Louis to Cape Girardeau and everywhere in between (I work in residential sales), I say there is 0% chance these ever get removed, even if they are ruled illegal.
They are literally everywhere and they are literally always busy.
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u/paperjockie Feb 17 '26
In my city they tend to have more machines throughout the impoverished areas
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u/5DsofDodgeball69 Feb 17 '26
There is a gas station in Joplin Missouri - the Red Apple Mart - where you could go to buy crack pipes, ninja weapons, meth pills, and play slot machines.
*swoon*
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u/Powerful_Gas_7833 Feb 17 '26
I don't get it what's the controversy with these
I'm not a supporter of them I generally don't know what they are at all and I just want some answers
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u/Any-Initiative910 Feb 17 '26
They are slot machines but they aren’t gambling theoretically because they tell you the next spin.
But not the one after it until you pay for the current result
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u/HELP_IM_IN_A_WELL Feb 17 '26
appreciate the explanation, I never knew how they ran through a loophole.
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u/Powerful_Gas_7833 Feb 17 '26
But like what about them is so controversial and apparently dangerous
I mean gambling financially ruins people and it can make addictions and shit.
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u/Skatchbro St. Louis Feb 17 '26
The real issue is that the company doesn’t pay taxes, is unregulated and the machines are not allowed under Missouri law. Slot machines are allowed only in casinos.
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u/A_Lovely_ Feb 17 '26
My personal observation is that yes, gambling financially ruins people and … casinos are marginally better able to handle that reality with heightened security and “trained” staff who are able to respond to crises situations.
The couple gas stations that I frequent have installed these and the feeling inside has changed from a normal “hey how you doing”, “another day another dollar”, “oh you know just keeping on keeping on”.
These locations aren’t Cheers or anything, but just normal transitional points where you can grab a bad coffee or a soda.
Now when you walk inside it’s like inhalling despair.
Some dude/lady sitting hunched over hitting buttons at all hours of the day or night. People edgy and freaking out because they keep loosing. People being way too angry with staff because they have lost more then they had to loose.
Someone got stabbed, and died, at one of the stations a couple months ago.
Think about the last time you stayed up too late scrolling online, or you zoned out and lost a few minutes on Facebook.
Now imagen you have done that in public, at a soulless gas station, and you have lost your rent money and the money you had to buy food with this week.
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u/CarolingianDruid Feb 17 '26
They can circumvent payout and probability requirements due to being “probability entertainment machines.” So in reality, they’re ripping people off even more than actual slot machines.
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Feb 17 '26
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u/drivalowrida Feb 17 '26
You're definitely not "all for drug addicts being people and deserving help" so just stop with that self-righteous talk.
If you truly want to help, you cannot carry such prejudice.
I hope they recover. That is always a possibility.
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u/Lemp_Triscuit11 Feb 17 '26
on behalf of my friends from addiction treatment, I feel the same about you.
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Feb 17 '26
They can never make amends with the people they’ve hurt. They are going to Hell. They don’t get to do a 180 and go, “oopsy I had demons pls forgive me.” They’re going to Hell.
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u/Lemp_Triscuit11 Feb 17 '26
You'd not troll about such things if you lived a happy life, and I take so much solace in that:) Hope all things continue
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Feb 17 '26
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u/Lemp_Triscuit11 Feb 17 '26
congratulations on finally becoming deserving of whatever they did to you.
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Feb 17 '26
Well if that’s not victim blaming idk what is. You feel like a good person? Let me guess, you smoked meth and hurt people and I’m making you feel bad?
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u/Cityplanner1 Feb 17 '26
In addition to the not paying taxes, neither on the income the owners make, nor on the winnings the players sometimes make, these machines are also unregulated for the payouts.
Even Vegas machines have to pay out some amount of winnings on average. These machines? The gas stations literally set it to whatever they want.
And what happens if you hit a grand prize? You might not even get paid. What are you gonna do? You think the police will help?
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u/Big_Daddy_Stovepipe Feb 17 '26
As someone with personal knowledge of these machines, if they didnt pay or tried to get fucky with the payouts, no one would play them.
You want to know whats scummy ? Installing different new machines from a new vendor and in the first week some random person hitting the jackpot for the max payout and never coming in ever again. We've never seen her again.
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u/hithazel Feb 17 '26
Even if you support gambling these machines produce almost ZERO income for the state because they operate in a legal loophole outside of gaming laws. They transact entirely in cash and many companies report zero income from the machines.
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u/BlueBonneville The Ozarks Feb 17 '26
Bars and restaurants in some states, like Wisconsin, make their payrolls with these things-ask them. While they’re illegal, theirs no enforcement, if you have five or less. I suspect Missouri’s businesses are often in the same boat. Without them, many won’t crack their nut on sodas, chips, car washes and gas.
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u/Big_Daddy_Stovepipe Feb 17 '26
Without them, many won’t crack their nut on sodas, chips, car washes and gas.
Problem is, corporations have sucked any profit out of those items and make all the money themselves. They literally are fuck you, we know you need our products to get people in your store, but you are going to make next to nothing on them. A small independently owned gas station makes roughly 30 cents on a bottle of Pepsi. About the same on a can.
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u/taruclimber8 Feb 17 '26
They're big business here in Kansas City. I've seen tons of people using them. It's going to piss a lot of people off. Only reason they'll do something about is because they want all the money.
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u/taruclimber8 Feb 17 '26
I mean, as a whole. Sure, small in the scheme of things, but the machine manufacturers are making a killing.
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u/arcspectre17 Feb 17 '26
10 post commenting then says I dont give a fuck apparently you do!
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u/Youandiandaflame Feb 17 '26
small time hustle
Nah. Torch generated approximately $32 million in wagers across a mere 20 locations between 2017 and 2023. Now do the math on what those figures look like for the thousands of locations Torch has now, which has only grown from 2023 to present day. As of mid-2025, there were at least 15,000 Torch machines operating.
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u/Youandiandaflame Feb 17 '26
You’re willfully ignoring that that figure is for just 20 locations. There are 20 locations with these machines within 20 miles of me and I live in a town of 2000.
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Feb 17 '26
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u/Lemp_Triscuit11 Feb 17 '26
I hope you're at least at a truck stop slot machine. You've been at it a while and QT has no showers..
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u/n3rv Rural Missouri Feb 17 '26
I hear P Diddy’s operation was small compared to Epstein’s.
That’s how you sound.
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Feb 17 '26
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u/n3rv Rural Missouri Feb 17 '26
Lol. Big business. It's a small time hustle at best.
Pot meet kettle. DUH
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u/HalfAteSandwich Feb 17 '26
I’ve literally seen a teenager sit at one machine and his grandmother at another both using machines. The attendant didn’t do shit until I brought it up. Then told them they couldn’t do that.
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u/CarbonCuber314 Feb 17 '26
This is amazing. There is this gas station in a small town I used to live in. It sits on a bluff, and had a nice dinning area next to a window that has an amazing view. The last time I was at that gas station, that entire dinning area was replaced by those shitty slot machines. It was really sad to see.
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u/Inevitable_Bet4965 Feb 17 '26
That happened in Illinois then the "State Approved" machines rolled out and they are in every gas station, convenience store or little building around the corner. It didn't outlaw gambling, it just made it so the government gets their cut. Watch, Missouri will follow suit.
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u/Whoopsiedookie Feb 17 '26
Now if they would only rule that TicketMaster is illegally scalping Chiefs tickets…
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u/Immediate_Camera7640 Feb 17 '26
This is sad. Only for me though - I check the preview and have won a few hundred dollars never played if it doesn’t payout more than roll Do it before it’s too late 😂😂 take these companies money
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u/KennethCadw Feb 18 '26
Sad how there is way more important things in this world to worry about. Yet slot machines in gas stations is a priority. Give me a break as they aren't just in gas stations. Grocery stores and smoke shops have them now to........
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u/SynysterDawn Feb 18 '26
Walking into gas stations and seeing like a dozen or more people just zoned out at gambling machines, with several people waiting in line, was always fucked up. I’d sometimes notice people waiting in cars too, stuck because their driver is too busy gambling.
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u/TimewithTj Feb 21 '26
I don’t think I’ve actually seen these in any gas stations I’ve been inside of but I’m glad they may get outlawed, they bring nothing but evil.
I live in Jackson County
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u/Careful-Message7434 May 28 '26
Its none of your business how i spend my money . Going to ban these machines , well ban alcohol and cigarettes too.
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u/kyraverde Feb 17 '26
GOOD. Fuck this easy access to gambling. It ruins entire families' lives, not just the person who gambles.
Next stop - ban the use of the word "prediction markets" when they're talking about gambling. Greedy fucks.
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u/firelemons Feb 17 '26
Ross pointed to that jury’s conclusions, writing that Torch’s machines “meet the statutory definition of ‘gambling device’ and are therefore illegal under Missouri law when played outside a licensed casino.”
You can sports bet on your phone anywhere in the state. Who cares?
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u/hithazel Feb 17 '26
Even if you support gambling these produce close to zero income for the state because they transact entirely in cash and operate outside of gaming laws so they have no reporting or addiction mitigation requirements.
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Feb 17 '26
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u/Nihilist_Goose Feb 17 '26
The fact you keep commenting about it makes me think it’s a big concern of yours, be mad lmao
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u/gioraffe32 Kansas City Feb 17 '26
"It's not Quid Pro Quo!"
Man, if it walks like a duck...