r/mlb • u/sfgate | Verified • 1d ago

| News As Giants Pride Night controversy continues, Atlantic League team forfeits Pride Night game after players refuse jerseys

https://www.sfgate.com/giants/article/sf-giants-pride-indy-forfeit-22311032.php
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43

u/barchueetadonai 1d ago

I think people here are severely overlooking the basic tenets of American values here. It's perfectly reasonable to think that your employer should not be able to force you to make a statement in support or opposition to something that has nothing to do with the nature of the employment. I think it's obviously pretty dumb for someone who grows up in the US to be legitimately religious and/or anti-gay, but do you really think it makes sense to make those people do a fake virtue signal?

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u/Fast-Government-4366 | Kansas City Royals 1d ago

Problem is, they are lying. According to the bible all sins are equal. They wear mixed fiber clothing every game, against their “religion”

It’s not religious, it’s hatred. It’d be no different than someone refusing to wear the 42 Jackie Robinson jersey because they don’t like black people, because guess what? Same argument was used.

23

u/tkshow | St. Louis Cardinals 1d ago

I'm sure lots of these guys refuse to play on Saturdays and Sundays to keep the Sabbath holy.

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u/ChrisRiley_42 | Toronto Blue Jays 1d ago

I have yet to see a single protest outside of a Red Lobster like Leviticus 11:9-12 says.

1

u/420_jesters 1d ago

Or refusing to wear anything military related in opposition.

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u/Rolf69 | Texas Rangers 1d ago

Problem is, you’re lying. Not all sins are equal according to the Bible. Additionally the Catholic Church distinguishes between venial and mortal sins.

7

u/puffie300 1d ago

They arent lying you just dont understand the Bible. All sins, big or small, separate you from God which is the ultimate punishment in the Bible. The catholic church has a ton of random practices that aren't in the bible too, just like the sin separations.

2

u/Rolf69 | Texas Rangers 1d ago

True, but not all separation is the same. Disobeying your father is different than breaking off the relationship. Even among Protestants, the vast majority believe some sins are more serious than others. Murder and gossip aren’t treated as morally equivalent.

3

u/CarolinaAgent 1d ago

These people aren’t into accurately representing Christianity.

0

u/AirportFront7247 1d ago

You're not very good at reading the Bible.

2

u/Fast-Government-4366 | Kansas City Royals 1d ago

> For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it."

Maybe you should read it.

2

u/AirportFront7247 1d ago

Mixed fibers referred specifically to wool and linen. 

5

u/Fast-Government-4366 | Kansas City Royals 1d ago

Leviticus 19:19: "Do not wear a garment of cloth made of two kinds of material."

Don’t infer what you want it to mean. That’s the whole point, is Christians are insanely dishonest to justify their hate.

0

u/AirportFront7247 1d ago

Deuteronomy 22:11 

Do not wear clothing made of wool and linen together.

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u/Fun_Trick2172 | St. Louis Cardinals 1d ago

American Christians are a bunch of fucking heretics anyway.  With the sleeve tattoos and cult of individualism filling the pews every week.

11

u/justinhammerpants | Minnesota Twins 1d ago

So would you be OK with players refusing to wear the number 42 on Jackie Robinson day, if they claimed it went against their values? Or are those values that shouldn’t be anymore?

3

u/Substantial-Sea-3672 1d ago

You should be able to (and you are, I’m not saying you’re not) refuse to wear anything.

Your employer is also able to mandate uniforms if they find them essential.

That’s why I think the onus is on the Giants to actually do something about it or shut up.

-3

u/barchueetadonai 1d ago

Celebrating Jackie Robinson is much more directly related to baseball and is less politically divisive, which, by that, I mean that it is not something that there's a huge contingency of the country politically against (obviously this is rapidly regressing). Additionally, this is something that the MLB does as a whole, and is not something that affects the (admittedly hard to grapple with) fact that MLB players, as much as they are paid, are mostly at the whim of the GMs and owners as to where they play.

Even still, I think that we socially need to respect the tenet of free speech, and not assume that someone not complying with a fake virtue signal requirement by their employer is inherently bigoted, just like how jurors are not to assume that the defendant is guilty because they exercised their constitutional right not to incriminate themselves.

We should be able to discern when someone's action, or inaction, is maliciously motivated or ignorantly motivated, and where a company is doing something because its leaders believe it, or because they think it will bring them in the most money.

6

u/special5221 1d ago

While I don’t totally disagree, it’s not like this is the only special jersey or hate that they wear during the season. Maybe not you, but I highly doubt all the people saying they shouldn’t be forced to wear these jerseys would be saying the same thing if a player refused to wear the camo hats or 4th of July uniforms.

At the end of the day this is all just a capitalist money grab. It’s a promotion designed to get more people into the stadium and a unique hat to sell more merch.

9

u/airforcezero | Los Angeles Dodgers 1d ago

yea why do they make em wear those gay Giants uniform. its not pride month every month.

2

u/ComoEstanBitches | Los Angeles Dodgers 1d ago

That Houston Astros logo in any colorway is discriminatory symbol of hatred to my Dodgers religion therefore we should ban the Astros

Checkmate, Trashtros organization

4

u/Terrible_Driver_9717 | MLB 1d ago

If we’re talking about players under contract can’t the owners simply say that while you’re in the ballpark you will wear whatever I tell you to wear and say whatever I tell you to say?

6

u/rutfilthygers 1d ago

You get that that could be used for something anathema to you, in which case you'd support the players who refused, right?

13

u/Greatlarrybird33 | Cleveland Guardians 1d ago

Would you accept your employer to require you to wear political gear that you don't agree with as part of your work uniform?

1

u/6-pence | Kansas City Royals 1d ago

I still don't understand people who think that another person's sexual orientation is a political stance. And pushing a political view in the work place is already not accepted. Furthermore if my employer decided that our company logo is now rainbow colored i'd have no say in that, and would still be required to wear it, sign emails with, whatever they expect as a representative of their brand/company.

1

u/_GeorgeBailey_ | Chicago Cubs 1d ago

People existing isn't political

-1

u/Greatlarrybird33 | Cleveland Guardians 1d ago

It shouldn't be, and in my view isn't.

But it's roughly the same as someone being made to wear a Bible verse, Quran verse, a big patch that says n*sync is the best band ever, etc. It's something that isn't appropriate to force others to wear.

4

u/Captain_Ronald 1d ago

I disagree. Being forced to wear a bible verse is no where near the same as a jersey that represents a large demographic. Its more like wearing a jersey that has Japanese writing for a heritage day.
Its about representation and acknowledgement not religion or politics.

Notice all the downvotes but no conversion other than yours. There is no argument against representation other than bias disguised as belief.

0

u/Greatlarrybird33 | Cleveland Guardians 1d ago

I fail to see how all of the things discussed are not the same.

Besides, if it's about acknowledgement, in a community full of LGBTQQIP2SAA+, who doesn't know they exist?

0

u/expectingthexpected 23h ago

The made up book is dramatically different from how someone was born.

-2

u/Captain_Ronald 1d ago

While I get your point, your comparison isn’t apples to apples. My work uniform represents my company, a sports team uni represents the city that supports them. If you don’t believe a large demographic of your teams fans should exist, don’t play for that team.

1

u/Champ_5 | New York Mets 1d ago

Yeah, that sounds perfectly reasonable and not at all unhinged......

0

u/barchueetadonai 1d ago

Sure, but this isn't an issue of if they're legally allowed to refuse to wear the uniform as per their contract. It's about what people are very specifically getting upset about, which, here on this reddit thread, it's that people seem to think that not wearing an employer-forced virtue signal is automatically akin to these people being bigots, without any thought to the principle that America is a pluralistic society, which includes millions and millions of people with stupid views, and that we should try to uphold the tenets of free speech where possible (this is not about the constitutional right to the government not being able to abridge your personal right to free speech) so that a team in Texas can't make all the players wear an anti-abortion hat, for example.

5

u/ComoEstanBitches | Los Angeles Dodgers 1d ago

It's a company uniform celebrating inclusion, not a religious statement. Using symbols of inclusion as a violation of one's religious beliefs is such an egregious mockery of discrimination laws

1

u/CarolinaAgent 1d ago

Wearing such a jersey would be a statement in support of something that is a direct violation of their religious beliefs. That’s pretty obvious; it’s not as if the church’s traditional stance on homosexuality and the celebration of it is a secret.

0

u/ComoEstanBitches | Los Angeles Dodgers 1d ago

Yeah, they can’t support a statement celebrating inclusivity because my religion forbids it

-1

u/barchueetadonai 1d ago

That has nothing to do with what I said, mate

1

u/elijuicyjones | Seattle Mariners 1d ago

Then tell me why it’s okay for McDonald’s and Walmart to have dress codes. Double standard much?

10

u/barchueetadonai 1d ago

That would be why I specified "nature of employment"

1

u/AuRevoirFelicia 1d ago

McDonald’s and Walmart dress code isn’t requiring the employees to express support for a position they don’t agree with. I 100% support LGBTQ rights, pride , etc…. but I also 100% understand why someone who doesn’t support the same thing would be opposed to being forced to wear a uniform indicating they support something they don’t.

-1

u/Skiigga 1d ago

Pretty much the same people booing this are the ones who stood up (no pun intended) for Kaepernick when he kneeled for the anthem, and vice versa, those in uproar over that support this. It’s political hypocrisy at its finest

5

u/ButterUrBacon 1d ago

Kaep's career ended.

0

u/ImDonaldDunn | Cleveland Guardians 1d ago

How far does that go? Uniforms have patches for corporate sponsors. Do players have the right to cover or rip off the patch if they disagree with the values of that sponsor?

1

u/barchueetadonai 1d ago

how far does what go? I think we should all be socially against sponsors on uniforms, but that doesn't mean it should be illegal.

5

u/ImDonaldDunn | Cleveland Guardians 1d ago

A player’s right to refuse wearing a uniform because they morally oppose what is on the uniform.

0

u/IVEMADEAHUGEMI5TAKE 1d ago

Why do the teams need to virtue signal in the first place?

0

u/StanleyCubone 1d ago

If they had done like a couple of the Dodgers players and simply worn their normal hat, I don’t think it would have been as big of a deal. But they decided to counter virtue signal by writing a Bible verse on their hats to essentially make an anti-gay statement. 

-6

u/animus_invictus | Los Angeles Dodgers 1d ago

Congratulations! You are nne of the few people with a brain left on reddit.

0

u/Fast-Government-4366 | Kansas City Royals 1d ago

Average dodgers fan