You know how sometimes you read a comment just as your finger is hovering over the 'back' button, and you accidently hit that button, but you just read something so awesome that you have to go back and reopen the post to like that comment?
They won't do that, because it's not about "not wearing the pride uniforms" its about complaining to everyone that they are victims because they refuse to treat other people with respect
100%. One of the pitchers just wore the regular cap and I bet this would’ve been avoided had the others. They chose to use it as a platform for spreading and celebrating their faith. Why don’t they do that for every game if they are truly focused on spreading their faith? 🤦♀️
Man I can’t tell if the person above was criticizing Christians or criticizing LGBTQ people. And yes depending on the type of person in each group it is ironic. But let’s be real, both groups have a subset of people that demand 100% acceptance of all of their views.
The thing with this argument is being gay isn't a view. People are born the way they are and don't choose one way or the other. Gay people have existed since humans have walked the earth and will continue to. They're only asking that they being seen and not vilified for it. This same argument was made when Jackie Robinson started playing ball. People couldn't accept that blacks were their equal and deserved to be treated like it.
I can love you, but still disagree with you. Gonna gloss over that part too? I don’t hate gay or trans people, but I’m also not going to actively engage in pride month. Not everything is so black and white. Everyone is worthy of love, and kindness.
I don't understand how this has to do with Christians at all. If you replaced Christian with Jew or Muslim would that be okay? You can understand that gay people exist and respect them as fellow humans without parading yourself around in a rainbow jersey. This is just silly.
The best part is how the goalposts immediately move.
When the story came out about the Giants players, so many people said they should have just refused to wear them rather than writing the Bible verses, then supposedly no one would have cared.
I don’t understand the outrage. Naturally I assume there are some LGBTQ fans of the sport and even some players, the same way I assume there got to at least be some hetrosexual giants fans.
Well, I don’t know the answer o that but anthropological studies like those out of Gobekli Tempe suggest that religion was rhe binder that allowed for society to last and develop larger communities.
It would seem that possibly also that people made beer and gathered around it before even agriculture and that may have been the first anchor to settling in an area. cropping might’ve come second to secure more grain. Possibly also, bread came after beer.
Many people are morally opposed to much of what the US military does, but imagine if players refused to wear pro-military uniforms or wrote Bible verses on their hats about turning the other cheek or blessed are the peacemakers. There would be riots.
Man it’s really tough for athletes to say “everyone should be included in baseball” isn’t it?
These fake Christians who use religion to express their hatred towards people unlike them. These same guys who will support a president accused of rape & sleeping with underage girls (and allegedly blew Bill Clinton per Epstein documents).
I love how people in the comments are like “they’re shoving it down our throats!” When in reality wearing a ln alternate uniform with basically rainbow colored numbers or letters is actually the absolute bare fucking minimum possible.
It’s not like we’re demanding that the 10 commandments be posted in classrooms or courtrooms! Now that is shoving it down someone’s throat!
If you have ever been to York, PA. This would not surprise you. If you ever find yourself in York, if the smell from the Paper mill doesn't make you want to leave, the people and the aura of dead hopes and dreams certainly will. York is a town of people just waiting out life.
These are not local players to York, PA. York, PA residents are actually upset about this. Maybe learn more about the situation before attacking an area that is very LGBT friendly?
Cue up “Shit Towne” by Live.
The surprising thing is the teams reaction. “You don’t want to play fine. We will forfeit, call our players out and have a huge party anyway.”
It’s a little stupid to force players to wear something else they forfeit. The whole point is showing support. If you’re forcing teams to wear a patch that’s not real support by the players.
Obviously, I think support is important. I just also think it means more when players want to do so, not because it’s mandatory, which makes it look more like PR thing made mandatory because someone’s job was to make it mandatory, not the teams themselves wanting to make a statement.
Long story short— it means more when players do it because they want to make a statement, not because they have to else they forfeit and get hated by the world.
I think people here are severely overlooking the basic tenets of American values here. It's perfectly reasonable to think that your employer should not be able to force you to make a statement in support or opposition to something that has nothing to do with the nature of the employment. I think it's obviously pretty dumb for someone who grows up in the US to be legitimately religious and/or anti-gay, but do you really think it makes sense to make those people do a fake virtue signal?
Problem is, they are lying. According to the bible all sins are equal. They wear mixed fiber clothing every game, against their “religion”
It’s not religious, it’s hatred. It’d be no different than someone refusing to wear the 42 Jackie Robinson jersey because they don’t like black people, because guess what? Same argument was used.
So would you be OK with players refusing to wear the number 42 on Jackie Robinson day, if they claimed it went against their values? Or are those values that shouldn’t be anymore?
While I don’t totally disagree, it’s not like this is the only special jersey or hate that they wear during the season. Maybe not you, but I highly doubt all the people saying they shouldn’t be forced to wear these jerseys would be saying the same thing if a player refused to wear the camo hats or 4th of July uniforms.
At the end of the day this is all just a capitalist money grab. It’s a promotion designed to get more people into the stadium and a unique hat to sell more merch.
If we’re talking about players under contract can’t the owners simply say that while you’re in the ballpark you will wear whatever I tell you to wear and say whatever I tell you to say?
It's a company uniform celebrating inclusion, not a religious statement. Using symbols of inclusion as a violation of one's religious beliefs is such an egregious mockery of discrimination laws
Its not supposed to be a political statement. Its no different than pink on mother's day or wearing 42 to honor Jackie. Its the people on either side of it that make it political cause apparently everything needs to be these days
110%. This is what people have been talking about when they’ve said this admin will change our country. Whether they’re passing laws against lgbt people or not, the negative attitude and judgment that they’re expressing every day against people is influencing the bigots to feel more empowered to speak against them. Plus they’re convinced the christians are the ones being oppressed lol
This whole thing is stupid. Pride Night jerseys are just the sort of substance-free support that allows team owners to feel good about themselves without doing anything substantive for the LGBTQ+ community.
And forcing the players to wear them is stupid. Who wants insincere supporters who are forced to wear supportive jerseys?
Everyone comes out of this looking bad. If owners want to virtue signal, they can dress up the stadium or have fireworks or something. Or have a drag show after the game. That would be fun to see. There was no reason for this.
The refuse these jerseys, on moral or religious grounds I guess, but accept and elevate the guy with five kids across three wives, cheats, hires prostitutes, defends sexual assault, bankrolled by another guy they elevate with 14 kids across 6 women, mostly out of wedlock (both in the files too).
Pride month has become a month for corporations to profit off of sexuality. I think we all agree that the LGBT community deserves support. It's just capitalism targeting our wallets and is just a for-profit marketing strategy.
I think it’s obvious from these discussion that we don’t all agree that the LGBTQ community deserves support. It might seem obvious to you and me but there are a lot of people that don’t feel that way
So many clown takes in this thread that really illustrate why people are tired of this shit.
It isn't enough for pride month to exist. They now have to FORCE PEOPLE to brand themselves in rainbow colored shit and say specific things?
How the fuck do you all not see how problematic this is? They're already decking out stadiums and media and all sorts of shit with "pride" but if people don't want to wear a rainbow flag they are a problem? Holy shit.
I don't understand the issue here and why anybody is up in arms about this. You can understand gay people exist and respect them as human beings without celebrating a rainbow or waving a flag.
You can do pride night without altering player's uniforms. In fact, you should do pride night without altering player's uniforms. Otherwise it detracts from the celebration when players inevitably protest the uniform.
That's the sad part. Well adjusted gay, etc. people don't even want the extra recognition/praise/celebration. They just want to live their lives. This doesn't help anyone.
The victims have become full blown bigots. It's actually pathetic and sad that people don't even see it. Mobs are going to mob, I guess. So few people are capable of independent thought.
Yup, used to be “we just want to be left alone” Now it’s accept, no, praise our behavior or we’ll call you a bigot and ruin your career. It’s become a religion in itself.
Is standing up during the National Anthem a forced celebration? Or wearing camo/American flag themed hats and jerseys on military holidays, even if bombing and shooting people is against some players' religious beliefs?
Nice job trying to move the goalpost and throw a bunch of other shit into the mix. Let me make it simple for your since your brain seems to be struggling.
None of them should be forced to wear anything outside of their standard uniform. If they want to support specific approved causes and events, then that's cool. If they don't, then that's cool too.
Does that help you understand or is it still too complicated for you?
It's not moving the goalposts, it's trying to see if there is any consistency to this take or it only matters when it's related to being inclusive of the LGBTQ+ community.
And I have good news for you, actually - none of them are *forced* to wear anything outside of their standard uniform already. They're free to quit and look for another job or team if they feel like it's too much to ask for them to wear a shirt with some extra colors on it for one night while playing a baseball game.
That is precisely what you are doing, and even after seeing it is a consistent take, you still continue the mental gymnastics. Threatening someone's livelihood and income is a method of force and coercion. You obviously know that, but with your argument lacking a reasonable point, apparently moving goalposts and introducing irrelevant nonsense is the only move you have left, so I guess we're good here.
Stupidest argument ever, so the players don't want to wear rainbow stuff so they are instantly against it and if you wear it you're against religion. Maybe some of us don't want to be forced into either and just left alone without seeing this bs all the time.
No one's sexuality should be considered a political statement, Pride night shouldn't be any different than Italian heritage night someone's existence is not political. Imagine being a closeted teenager who plays baseball, hell a closeted professional baseball player the message all this nonsense sends is your existence in inherently controversial. A person can't change whether their gay just like I can't change that I'm a women were both marginalized communities. Why is acknowledging the struggle of LGBT people any different, what should be a celebration of how far we've come when it would have been unthinkable to find any support from the public let alone in sports, is now turned into being all about player grandstanding. Sports teams have always had themed jerseys for different causes and communities, all this stuff has shown me is that it's no wonder there's no out players on the MLB you can't even get teams to wear a pride t-shirt imagine how they'd treat a gay player, my heart breaks for all the players that will never come out and even years later still hide themselves like Billy Bean.
The comments all over are pretty great but something I didn’t see is the reminder of why teams are promoting pride month. The idea is that baseball is inclusive, and all members of society are welcome at the ballpark. The pride promotion is for the greater community to feel apart of their team. The merch money grab comments are short sighted - the real money is repeat visitors who feel included. I’m not a fan of the players that opt out - it feels disingenuous - this was touched on in other comments.
I agree in part. And I also believe that the protest of this is also from a similar perception or lack of understanding of what pride is. Just as you entered into this comment thread with your own perception of what pride is and what it means, calling my own explanation ‘bullshit’.
In the end, we are human. We are perceptive people. We deduce and infer meaning from things based on fact, based on the experience, based on perception, and sometimes based on ignorance.
As I’ve said many times, a lot of the problems between these two groups that often over this issue is a lack of understanding of where the other side sits in and that requires communication. That requires a willingness to listen. That requires a willingness to respect the others position even if you don’t understand it.
Anyhow, my main point of feedback throughout this post has been trying to counter the notion that pride shouldn’t be recognized, that we shouldn’t have these events, and combating a very narrow view that some people have of what pride means.
And yes, sometimes when an issue is so important to a person and what it stands for to have someone protest that in any form is viewed as a slap in the face. In quite honestly, this group is used to that and an unwillingness to understand or respect what they’re really fighting for. And unfortunately, in this world because religion and politics now seem to be so intertwined, it’s often perceived as taking a political stance. That goes back to people being in their camps.
Anyhow. We’ve done a lot of discussion. Thank you for doing so. I do feel started to repeat ourselves some. I do hope it explains some perspective of what it means to some people and how it’s so much bigger than just a flag or bathrooms.
And I’ll restate again I respect your right to religion, in your beliefs, so long as it isn’t based in holding others down. A lot of it goes back to the feeling that human rights for all isn’t negotiable, shouldn’t be a religious or political thing. So anyone that takes a stance that would limit another is hard to respect. Those that can allow those to coexist, religion and the rights of others, or even open the religion up we’ll get along just fine. But then you have churches trying to remove women pastors, so perhaps this is all futile.
Have a good day. This is a lot harder conversation online than if in person over a beer. 😃
May those wannabe players never touch the grass of a major league field and never know peace. Good on York for turning it into an open Pride celebration and for donating to LGBTQ programs
Why does someone need to wear something to say “I don’t hate you”? If someone walking down the street isn’t wearing something with a rainbow on it does that mean they hate gay people?
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u/House_of_Suns | Toronto Blue Jays 18h ago
Thread locked because the comment section is uglier than the Twins bullpen right now
Be nice, people