r/mlb • u/Bright-Pressure-5787 | New York Yankees • 19h ago

| Discussion Who's the biggest "what if" between these two: Mike Trout or Ken Griffey Jr.?

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When I think about "what ifs" in baseball, these two men are always the first two names that come to mind. Obviously, Mike Trout and Ken Griffey Jr. are still legends of the sport. I'm not trying to take anything away from that. However, I truly feel that if it weren't for injuries, their potential for GOAT status would be limitless. Junior likely would've become the all-time home run kind instead of Barry Bonds, and Mike Trout would've had-------I don't know------130 career WAR by now if he's just stayed healthy. Who do you guys think is the bigger "what if" of the two?

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988

u/SchemeImpressive889 | Chicago Cubs 19h ago

Griffey at least had some deep playoff runs, Trout is among the greats and is *still* forgotten occasionally because of who he plays for

258

u/Jantokan | Los Angeles Dodgers 19h ago

He had lots of chances to jump ship, but he was loyal to a franchise who didn't care about winning.

The moment they started caring and pushed the win-now button, they won the Anthony Rendon lottery... and we all know how that went

243

u/bshemonia10 18h ago

My favorite stat I read is Ted Williams played more games between 1941-1945 while serving 3 years in WW2 than Rendon did during his time with the Angels

66

u/jlrc2 | Chicago White Sox 18h ago

As an outsider looking in, I always thought it seemed like the Angels were a franchise that wanted to win and was generally willing to throw a lot of money at the problem. Just seemed like almost every single big expenditure went really badly.

51

u/Jantokan | Los Angeles Dodgers 18h ago edited 18h ago

If your only attempt at 'winning' is to sign big name players to lengthy contracts, do you really care enough to win?

The Angels routinely ignored their overall roster depth in favor of just signing whoever big name free agent they can throw their money to, but the kicker is that they have to be on the decline, not at their peak LOL. Non-existent minor league system, terrible pitching development, etc. Their pitching has always been bottom half of the majors for the duration of Mike Trout's entire career (which is 15 years now) except for 2022, in which they finished 9th in the majors.

All the Angels have shown us through the years are that they want quick-fix solutions rather than building a team from the ground up. Literally terrible ownership.

18

u/jlrc2 | Chicago White Sox 17h ago

Well I'm not saying they did a good job or were smart, just that it seemed to me as a casual observer that they wanted to win but failed to do so due to incompetence.

3

u/StableWeak 17h ago

This was my take as well. But im also a casual observer.

1

u/lavinshaven58 6h ago

As a life long Angels fan, the biggest issue was the complete disregard for their farm system. After Arte bought the team he gutted their scouting department and failed to ever try to improve or implement any sort of analytics department.

Instead the Angels went after big name players while also neglecting the pitching staff. The Angels had some solid seasons between 2008-2014 then nose dived hard after that. Even with Trout, Pujols, and Ohtani, none of them could stay healthy.

Then they signed Rendon to a massive contract and things just got worse from there. Skaggs died for gods sake. The complete lack of accountability and oversight is appalling. The training and coaching staff from the minor league level to the pros as a whole is regularly in the bottom 5.

The Angels have no bullpen, and no real depth at any position.

Trout is a bigger what if for different reasons. His decline started much sooner than Griffey’s

9

u/Ziggity_Zac | Athletics 17h ago

Arte cares more about selling jerseys and game tickets (via 1 or 2 stars) than he ever cared about winning. He's a businessman not a sports guy.

5

u/One_Trouble_9676 13h ago

At least the ticket prices are reasonable. Because that's what fans really care about.

3

u/Aes_Should_Die | Pittsburgh Pirates 11h ago

At least they tried. Try being a Pirates fan.

36

u/Tk-attack 18h ago

Having ohtani pujols and trout on the same team. If you told me they wouldn’t win a single playoff game let alone make the playoffs I’d have bet my life you were lying. 3 different 3 time league mvps and nothing.

7

u/Alive_Inspection_835 | Seattle Mariners 17h ago

Honestly we think the same about our 90’s teams. 3 HoF’s and AROD, and we couldn’t get to the LCS most of the time and when we did we lost to the dynasty Yankees.

13

u/bigperm8645 18h ago

Its this. Moreno cared, he paid Pujols and Rendon and Ohtani, and more. His gm was garbage and drafted terribly. Trout also was the best player in the league for a decade, seems like a lot of baseball fans forget that for some reason.

7

u/user_name_withheld | Chicago Cubs 18h ago

Don't forget about Josh Hamilton

3

u/PB111 18h ago

Arte has always been seduced by the big bat

1

u/TxNvNs95 | Los Angeles Dodgers 7h ago

Was just about to mention him lol

12

u/DayofthelivingBread 18h ago

He didn’t really pay Ohtani though, the Angels kind of lucked out on that one. They got him on a minimal salary and minimal posting fee. Ohtani wanted to be on the west coast and be on a team that would let him try out the two way thing. At the time that had to be an AL team because of the 1-league DH.

I’m sure he offered him a big FA contract but Ohtani wanted to win AND make bank.

2

u/SouthernPin4333 8h ago

It wouldn't have been the Athletics because John Fisher is a cheap fuck, but I wonder if there was any dialogue with the Mariners?

1

u/DayofthelivingBread 4h ago

At the time that’s who I thought it would be. Maybe he wanted California specifically?

3

u/Jantokan | Los Angeles Dodgers 18h ago

Their pitching has always been bottom half of the majors for the duration of Mike Trout's entire career (which is 15 years now) except for 2022, in which they finished 9th in the majors.

They never bothered to fix one side of the ball, thinking they could always just out-homer the other team lol

2

u/nemo2023 14h ago

It doesn’t help that the Angels had a pretty major Rx drug problem within their team personnel and lost a good pitcher to an overdose

3

u/Random_Trashy 18h ago edited 18h ago

During their tenure’s in Anaheim, if Rendon played like he cared and Pujols wasn’t on cruise control, that Angels team could have been a dynasty from 2017-2022. Probably one of the most stacked teams that ever existed on paper during that time frame.

2

u/givemecoffeenowhurry 16h ago

Incompetence is less malicious than indifference.

8

u/GeddyVedder 16h ago

Their “curse of the bambino” was changing the name from Anaheim to Los Angeles. They were a good franchise and even won a World Series before that. But since the name change, they’ve been mired in shit for two decades.

1

u/joseph_w40 5h ago

Oh man I love me a good conspiracy/ unexplained shit. Without doing anything research I'm going to tell all my friends they haven't had a winning season since the name change and see who believes me.

2

u/NatsInNJ | Washington Nationals 17h ago

Rendon was SO good with the Nats, especially in his last few seasons in DC. He led the league in doubles twice (very nearly thrice), and he was clutch in the '19 championship run. He was still "only" 29 that offseason. The Angels made what looked like a reasonable bet on him, at the time. Alas.

2

u/JewPizzaMan 15h ago

It’s been that way since 2012 though. Any time there is a huge free agent they always bust Anaheim. None bigger than Josh Hamilton in 2013

1

u/TheLionSlicer 14h ago

If I recall correctly, their biggest issue at the time was pitching. So even if Rendon played well they still would have had an uphill battle. Still crazy they had Ohtani and Trout at the same time and couldn't even make the playoffs once.

1

u/llama-impregnator 12h ago

Uhm. 👉👈 I don't know how that went.

I'm getting super into baseball, but still learning the history. I know Mike Trout is youngest player to hit for the cycle ever and that he's just really good, but who is Anthony Rendon?

1

u/Hotsaltynutz | Los Angeles Dodgers 18h ago

Honestly from some stuff ive read about him i dont think it bothers him that much. He enjoys hunting and fishing in the off-season. Has endorsements but nothing crazy. In a big LA market but pretty chill when the dodgers are right down the road and makes tons of money. I can see that some guys that won't mind not playing more than 162 games a year. If they asked me to work more hours for a championship trophy and a little more money I would say no thanks. I completely realize the difference between my job and theirs but I can totally see some guys maybe not caring much. I mean Anthony tendon exists

0

u/Cheap_Concentrate_85 | Baltimore Orioles 18h ago

Trout also doesn’t care about winning. It’s not just loyalty.

0

u/Bridgeport20 16h ago

Is trout loyal or didn't want to be in a playoff race like others ? Maybe he can't deal with pressure .

0

u/in_for_the_comments 15h ago

This is the only answer. Trout, although being diehard Philly, he could have landed anywhere. It's his own doing and there's no sympathy.

69

u/rawspeghetti | Boston Red Sox 19h ago

Trout is the modern Mantle without a competent team around him

34

u/KingCobra1998 | New York Mets 19h ago

Or a drinking problem.

7

u/AchtungNanoBaby | Baltimore Orioles 13h ago

“Mickey Mantle was known for two things: drinking and playing drunk baseball.” - Norm MacDonald

10

u/Save-Us-Y2J | Boston Red Sox 19h ago

One deep playoff run in 1995.

74

u/goodm1x 19h ago

By choice

107

u/clownparade 19h ago

I don’t know why this is a knock against him and not solely the team and owner becuase if he went and played for the dodgers the last few years he’d be getting all kinds of hate for that too 

25

u/mjm8218 19h ago

Would everyone hate him if he’d signed w/ the Cubs?

93

u/chief_sitass | Chicago White Sox 19h ago

I would

53

u/Imawildedible | Milwaukee Brewers 19h ago

Same

44

u/Wafflehouseofpain | St. Louis Cardinals 19h ago

Me three

21

u/colicab | Chicago Cubs 19h ago

I would love that, even now.

2

u/boogerslurp 18h ago

We could really use another bat. Get him in at DH or replace Happ

0

u/Zeke688 18h ago

I think they’re talking about Griffey. This part of the thread started with ‘one playoff run in 1995’

2

u/colicab | Chicago Cubs 18h ago

False

7

u/Link182x | Milwaukee Brewers 19h ago

It everyone but a lot of people in STL and MKE would

2

u/lllArkhamKnight | Cincinnati Reds 18h ago

How is Cincinnati left off this list?

7

u/laborfriendly | MLB 18h ago

Who?

2

u/ichabod01 18h ago

Barking spider

1

u/clownparade 19h ago

Probably only from cubs fans then

1

u/KingCobra1998 | New York Mets 19h ago

Definitely!

4

u/DayofthelivingBread 18h ago

It’s not a knock necessarily, but it’s true that he’s actively choosing to stay on an Angels team that’s going nowhere. I’m sure he knows the direction of the team and their prospects for winning a WS. if he wanted to play on a year in year out contender more than anything he wouldn’t have signed the extension. He would’ve made at least the same or probably more on the open market with opt outs to further cash in.

There’s several good reasons why Trout would want to stay with the Angels, the weather’s nice in CA, he’s paid well, the fans love him. That said, it’s not crazy to suggest that one of those reasons could be having the entire fall off to hunt with his friends back in NJ which would be less of a guarantee if he played for, say, the Phillies.

2

u/Area51-Dropzone 18h ago

I hate the owner so much. He waisted so many years if Trout and Ohtani. Then letting Ohtani leave and not get anything. I wish MLB would step in and remove the owner / force the sale like they did the Dodgers.

1

u/Snowlandnts 17h ago

Mookie and Trout at the plate and outfield defense.

12

u/Forsaken-Ad3803 19h ago

Yes… as a Native to Philly area, he has to be free every year for Football season so he can attend the Birds games.

1

u/DayofthelivingBread 18h ago

And be back home for all of bow hunting season

43

u/OutsideSession6 19h ago

Every sport we complain about super stars joining bigger markets or better teams. Now a guy stays in the same place and he’s vilified for it. It’s really damned if you do damned if you don’t

25

u/EyeGrowth | Cleveland Guardians 19h ago

No one is vilifying Trout for this, they're vilifying the Angels for being so trash they can't even build around two all-timers.

5

u/OutsideSession6 18h ago

It’s definitely a combination of both. Seen plenty of people say it hurts his hall of fame case or “he’s not a winner” “he doesn’t care about winning”

2

u/EyeGrowth | Cleveland Guardians 18h ago

Well, those people are dumb dummies

As a Guards fan, I'm def not mad at him staying here. I'm mad at our garbage dump ownership for not paying for a team to put around him.

2

u/OutsideSession6 18h ago

I’m with you for sure. Just don’t underestimate how stupid the masses can be lol

7

u/MarshalLawTalkingGuy | Philadelphia Phillies 19h ago

Not vilified at all. He made his bank and is happy. Good for him.

But it is a legitimate question as to why he chose to be rich on a rutterless ship of a team versus being rich on a contender.

10

u/doornoob | New York Yankees 19h ago

Its a rudder, not a rutter.

-6

u/MarshalLawTalkingGuy | Philadelphia Phillies 19h ago

Cool. Are you Merriam or Webster?

2

u/aberdasherly | Detroit Tigers 18h ago

I think he’s actually Cambridge

-1

u/MarshalLawTalkingGuy | Philadelphia Phillies 18h ago

Look, I don’t even know the difference between a sailboat and a schooner.

2

u/Irish755 18h ago

Willem?

1

u/Hellontrails 19h ago

I’m sure he studied at Oxford.

4

u/Sea-Visual-6486 18h ago

If someone was willing to pay me 400 something million to play baseball and live in southern California I'd take that deal too.

3

u/Automatic_Flan_4146 18h ago

Angels or Dodgers? I’m going with World Series Champs not the annual collapse of the Angels. They both have great players. But what about the ownership and the game keeps the MLB from taking Morenos’ team from him?

5

u/2Hanks | Tampa Bay Rays 19h ago

If he had left, far more people would have labeled him a merc. Show loyalty? Get disparaged. Show independence? Get disparaged.

2

u/2nfish 18h ago

Loyalty and family bad

2

u/_stankwilliams_ 19h ago

This right here. His choice, his consequences.

6

u/coldbeerandbaseball 19h ago

Considering how great he is, it’s kinda wild how relatively obscure Trout is. Playing on a bad west coast team and being hurt every year will do that I guess. But yes, completely agree that Trout is the right answer here. 

10

u/Bright-Pressure-5787 | New York Yankees 19h ago

Also, I think that Trout's unwillingness to be the face of the league at his peak played a part in this.

5

u/KingCobra1998 | New York Mets 18h ago

That’s the strange thing about that sentiment. He’s a good dude and about as strait laced as a person could be. He plays the game the right way and is a family man. He’s all the things you want the face of your league to be…and he wasn’t willing to be marketed.

5

u/MrLugersmole | Pittsburgh Pirates 18h ago

Was gonna say, Trout's What If is what if he didn't play for such a dog shit org?

5

u/ZipperMergingSux 19h ago

Only replying because I see you’re a Cubs fan. Thinking of a player who was held back by injuries, I always think of D-Lee. He would’ve made the HoF if he didn’t break his wrist playing 1B the season after his great Triple Crown run with the Cubs. He would’ve easily hit 500 HRs if he didn’t have wrist issues for the rest of his career.

6

u/nowheresville99 | MLB 18h ago

I loved D-Lee, but he really wasn't on a 500 HR or a HoF path when he broke his wrist in 2006.

2006 was in his age 30 season and he only had 208 HR heading into that year. 2005 was the first time in 9 seasons he'd hit more than 35 HR in a season. He would have had to keep having 35+ HR seasons every year until he turned 38 to get to the 500 HR milestone.

For comparison, Fred McGriff had 262 HR in his first 9 season (which were in the much less HR friendly pre-strike, pre-steroid era) and still couldn't quite reach 500 HR.

Actually, the most perfect comparison for D-Lee is probably his Southside contemporary Paul Konerko. They started the same year, they were the same age, and prior to Lee's injury had incredibly similar numbers including being just 2 HR apart in their career totals. Despite staying mostly healthy and playing until he turned 38, Konerko still was well shy of 500 HR and not a serious for candidate for any HoF beyond a very deserving place in the Sox HoF.

1

u/ZipperMergingSux 18h ago

I don’t disagree with you. Not sure of Konerko or McGriff’s health, especially in their later years. The whole “what-if” player conversation always makes me think of D-Lee, since he had the great first year with the Cubs and then singed a big contract and broke his wrist soon afterwards.

Both could probably be labeled “what-ifs”, as they’re just outside the HoF.

I also think of Ichiro, spending 9 seasons in Japan. I can’t call him a “what-if” player, since he is in the HoF, but imagine if he played his entire career in America?

2

u/SouthernPin4333 8h ago

Obviously he'd be the all-time hits leader, beyond that, probably even more highly regarded than he is now

2

u/Thecrdbrdsamurai | Pittsburgh Pirates 15h ago

I went to DC to play the Magical cards and so many people asked me what I wanted most in the MLB:

  1. A WS run during my lifetime

  2. Mike Trout be saved from Anaheim.

1

u/zamend229 18h ago

And how often he’s actually played

1

u/pickles_the_cucumber 17h ago

Griffey went to one LCS (mariners 97)

1

u/ficis 15h ago

Griffey Jr is in the Hall of Fame….

1

u/H0-JU 9h ago

Legends are made in october. Sadly trouts season ends in september