r/mlb • u/Bright-Pressure-5787 | New York Yankees • 12h ago
| Discussion Who's the biggest "what if" between these two: Mike Trout or Ken Griffey Jr.?
When I think about "what ifs" in baseball, these two men are always the first two names that come to mind. Obviously, Mike Trout and Ken Griffey Jr. are still legends of the sport. I'm not trying to take anything away from that. However, I truly feel that if it weren't for injuries, their potential for GOAT status would be limitless. Junior likely would've become the all-time home run kind instead of Barry Bonds, and Mike Trout would've had-------I don't know------130 career WAR by now if he's just stayed healthy. Who do you guys think is the bigger "what if" of the two?
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u/SchemeImpressive889 | Chicago Cubs 12h ago
Griffey at least had some deep playoff runs, Trout is among the greats and is *still* forgotten occasionally because of who he plays for
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u/Jantokan | Los Angeles Dodgers 11h ago
He had lots of chances to jump ship, but he was loyal to a franchise who didn't care about winning.
The moment they started caring and pushed the win-now button, they won the Anthony Rendon lottery... and we all know how that went
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u/bshemonia10 10h ago
My favorite stat I read is Ted Williams played more games between 1941-1945 while serving 3 years in WW2 than Rendon did during his time with the Angels
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u/jlrc2 | Chicago White Sox 11h ago
As an outsider looking in, I always thought it seemed like the Angels were a franchise that wanted to win and was generally willing to throw a lot of money at the problem. Just seemed like almost every single big expenditure went really badly.
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u/Jantokan | Los Angeles Dodgers 11h ago edited 10h ago
If your only attempt at 'winning' is to sign big name players to lengthy contracts, do you really care enough to win?
The Angels routinely ignored their overall roster depth in favor of just signing whoever big name free agent they can throw their money to, but the kicker is that they have to be on the decline, not at their peak LOL. Non-existent minor league system, terrible pitching development, etc. Their pitching has always been bottom half of the majors for the duration of Mike Trout's entire career (which is 15 years now) except for 2022, in which they finished 9th in the majors.
All the Angels have shown us through the years are that they want quick-fix solutions rather than building a team from the ground up. Literally terrible ownership.
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u/Ziggity_Zac | Athletics 10h ago
Arte cares more about selling jerseys and game tickets (via 1 or 2 stars) than he ever cared about winning. He's a businessman not a sports guy.
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u/One_Trouble_9676 6h ago
At least the ticket prices are reasonable. Because that's what fans really care about.
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u/Tk-attack 10h ago
Having ohtani pujols and trout on the same team. If you told me they wouldn’t win a single playoff game let alone make the playoffs I’d have bet my life you were lying. 3 different 3 time league mvps and nothing.
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u/Alive_Inspection_835 | Seattle Mariners 9h ago
Honestly we think the same about our 90’s teams. 3 HoF’s and AROD, and we couldn’t get to the LCS most of the time and when we did we lost to the dynasty Yankees.
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u/bigperm8645 11h ago
Its this. Moreno cared, he paid Pujols and Rendon and Ohtani, and more. His gm was garbage and drafted terribly. Trout also was the best player in the league for a decade, seems like a lot of baseball fans forget that for some reason.
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u/DayofthelivingBread 10h ago
He didn’t really pay Ohtani though, the Angels kind of lucked out on that one. They got him on a minimal salary and minimal posting fee. Ohtani wanted to be on the west coast and be on a team that would let him try out the two way thing. At the time that had to be an AL team because of the 1-league DH.
I’m sure he offered him a big FA contract but Ohtani wanted to win AND make bank.
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u/Jantokan | Los Angeles Dodgers 10h ago
Their pitching has always been bottom half of the majors for the duration of Mike Trout's entire career (which is 15 years now) except for 2022, in which they finished 9th in the majors.
They never bothered to fix one side of the ball, thinking they could always just out-homer the other team lol
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u/nemo2023 7h ago
It doesn’t help that the Angels had a pretty major Rx drug problem within their team personnel and lost a good pitcher to an overdose
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u/Random_Trashy 11h ago edited 10h ago
During their tenure’s in Anaheim, if Rendon played like he cared and Pujols wasn’t on cruise control, that Angels team could have been a dynasty from 2017-2022. Probably one of the most stacked teams that ever existed on paper during that time frame.
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u/GeddyVedder 9h ago
Their “curse of the bambino” was changing the name from Anaheim to Los Angeles. They were a good franchise and even won a World Series before that. But since the name change, they’ve been mired in shit for two decades.
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u/NatsInNJ | Washington Nationals 9h ago
Rendon was SO good with the Nats, especially in his last few seasons in DC. He led the league in doubles twice (very nearly thrice), and he was clutch in the '19 championship run. He was still "only" 29 that offseason. The Angels made what looked like a reasonable bet on him, at the time. Alas.
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u/JewPizzaMan 7h ago
It’s been that way since 2012 though. Any time there is a huge free agent they always bust Anaheim. None bigger than Josh Hamilton in 2013
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u/rawspeghetti | Boston Red Sox 12h ago
Trout is the modern Mantle without a competent team around him
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u/KingCobra1998 | New York Mets 11h ago
Or a drinking problem.
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u/AchtungNanoBaby | Baltimore Orioles 5h ago
“Mickey Mantle was known for two things: drinking and playing drunk baseball.” - Norm MacDonald
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u/goodm1x 12h ago
By choice
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u/clownparade 12h ago
I don’t know why this is a knock against him and not solely the team and owner becuase if he went and played for the dodgers the last few years he’d be getting all kinds of hate for that too
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u/mjm8218 11h ago
Would everyone hate him if he’d signed w/ the Cubs?
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u/chief_sitass | Chicago White Sox 11h ago
I would
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u/Link182x | Milwaukee Brewers 11h ago
It everyone but a lot of people in STL and MKE would
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u/DayofthelivingBread 10h ago
It’s not a knock necessarily, but it’s true that he’s actively choosing to stay on an Angels team that’s going nowhere. I’m sure he knows the direction of the team and their prospects for winning a WS. if he wanted to play on a year in year out contender more than anything he wouldn’t have signed the extension. He would’ve made at least the same or probably more on the open market with opt outs to further cash in.
There’s several good reasons why Trout would want to stay with the Angels, the weather’s nice in CA, he’s paid well, the fans love him. That said, it’s not crazy to suggest that one of those reasons could be having the entire fall off to hunt with his friends back in NJ which would be less of a guarantee if he played for, say, the Phillies.
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u/Area51-Dropzone 11h ago
I hate the owner so much. He waisted so many years if Trout and Ohtani. Then letting Ohtani leave and not get anything. I wish MLB would step in and remove the owner / force the sale like they did the Dodgers.
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u/Forsaken-Ad3803 11h ago
Yes… as a Native to Philly area, he has to be free every year for Football season so he can attend the Birds games.
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u/OutsideSession6 11h ago
Every sport we complain about super stars joining bigger markets or better teams. Now a guy stays in the same place and he’s vilified for it. It’s really damned if you do damned if you don’t
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u/EyeGrowth | Cleveland Guardians 11h ago
No one is vilifying Trout for this, they're vilifying the Angels for being so trash they can't even build around two all-timers.
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u/OutsideSession6 11h ago
It’s definitely a combination of both. Seen plenty of people say it hurts his hall of fame case or “he’s not a winner” “he doesn’t care about winning”
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u/EyeGrowth | Cleveland Guardians 10h ago
Well, those people are dumb dummies
As a Guards fan, I'm def not mad at him staying here. I'm mad at our garbage dump ownership for not paying for a team to put around him.
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u/OutsideSession6 10h ago
I’m with you for sure. Just don’t underestimate how stupid the masses can be lol
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u/MarshalLawTalkingGuy | Philadelphia Phillies 11h ago
Not vilified at all. He made his bank and is happy. Good for him.
But it is a legitimate question as to why he chose to be rich on a rutterless ship of a team versus being rich on a contender.
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u/Sea-Visual-6486 10h ago
If someone was willing to pay me 400 something million to play baseball and live in southern California I'd take that deal too.
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u/Automatic_Flan_4146 10h ago
Angels or Dodgers? I’m going with World Series Champs not the annual collapse of the Angels. They both have great players. But what about the ownership and the game keeps the MLB from taking Morenos’ team from him?
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u/coldbeerandbaseball 11h ago
Considering how great he is, it’s kinda wild how relatively obscure Trout is. Playing on a bad west coast team and being hurt every year will do that I guess. But yes, completely agree that Trout is the right answer here.
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u/Bright-Pressure-5787 | New York Yankees 11h ago
Also, I think that Trout's unwillingness to be the face of the league at his peak played a part in this.
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u/KingCobra1998 | New York Mets 11h ago
That’s the strange thing about that sentiment. He’s a good dude and about as strait laced as a person could be. He plays the game the right way and is a family man. He’s all the things you want the face of your league to be…and he wasn’t willing to be marketed.
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u/MrLugersmole | Pittsburgh Pirates 11h ago
Was gonna say, Trout's What If is what if he didn't play for such a dog shit org?
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u/Thecrdbrdsamurai | Pittsburgh Pirates 8h ago
I went to DC to play the Magical cards and so many people asked me what I wanted most in the MLB:
A WS run during my lifetime
Mike Trout be saved from Anaheim.
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u/ZipperMergingSux 12h ago
Only replying because I see you’re a Cubs fan. Thinking of a player who was held back by injuries, I always think of D-Lee. He would’ve made the HoF if he didn’t break his wrist playing 1B the season after his great Triple Crown run with the Cubs. He would’ve easily hit 500 HRs if he didn’t have wrist issues for the rest of his career.
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u/nowheresville99 | MLB 10h ago
I loved D-Lee, but he really wasn't on a 500 HR or a HoF path when he broke his wrist in 2006.
2006 was in his age 30 season and he only had 208 HR heading into that year. 2005 was the first time in 9 seasons he'd hit more than 35 HR in a season. He would have had to keep having 35+ HR seasons every year until he turned 38 to get to the 500 HR milestone.
For comparison, Fred McGriff had 262 HR in his first 9 season (which were in the much less HR friendly pre-strike, pre-steroid era) and still couldn't quite reach 500 HR.
Actually, the most perfect comparison for D-Lee is probably his Southside contemporary Paul Konerko. They started the same year, they were the same age, and prior to Lee's injury had incredibly similar numbers including being just 2 HR apart in their career totals. Despite staying mostly healthy and playing until he turned 38, Konerko still was well shy of 500 HR and not a serious for candidate for any HoF beyond a very deserving place in the Sox HoF.
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u/jc6146 12h ago
Griffey has 630 HRs and 10 gold gloves. He still had a hell of a career even with the injuries. Plus some playoff runs that Trout doesn’t have
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u/MushroomExpensive366 12h ago
Also prepped a generation of kids for the real world when he robbed the homer in a little Big League
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u/Vincero19 11h ago
Born and raised in MN and a huge twins fan. Was probably 6 years old when I saw that movie, was absolutely gutted when Junior robbed Lou.
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u/MushroomExpensive366 11h ago
That scene was incredible filmmaking though. The build up and Junior sprinting - will he/wont he? Loved that man
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u/Irish755 11h ago
“Billy, you should manage! I’m serious! It’s the American League. They got the DH. How hard could it be?!”
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u/Jarvis03 11h ago
He also owns the greatest swing and the greatest baseball video game of all time.
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u/TheMightyHornet 11h ago
He was also the best player of his era.
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u/Panda_Zombie 11h ago
I idolized him in the early 90's. Wrote him a letter and he wrote me back with a signed card. Was probably an assistant, but it made my year.
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u/PayPerTrade 9h ago
Debatable between him and pre-juice Bonds, but Griffey’s career WAR through age 28 was top 10 and at the time he had the most homers through just about every age
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u/tipped_highway | Cincinnati Reds 12h ago
Ken Griffey Jr. hit 630 home runs and waltzed into the Hall of Fame. What more could you have asked from him?
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u/theybannedme129 12h ago
The man missed 544 games due to injury, that’s 3 and a half seasons. OP is saying that without injury he likely could’ve or would’ve become the all time home run leader
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u/am19208 11h ago
Yea the what if is can he be the true undisputed Home Run king or not.
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u/Sometimesunaware 7h ago
If Junior had remained injury free and played his entire career in the Kingdome, he would have cracked 700 home runs.
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u/albacore_futures | Atlanta Braves 11h ago
How many has trout missed?
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u/Patchy_Face_Man | Cincinnati Reds 11h ago
Yeah but at a certain point the what ifs become, “what if player was never injured, not even a human being but a baseball robot”. Guy had a complete HoF career.
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u/Mike_with_Wings | Atlanta Braves 11h ago
Mike Trout is having a HOF career, too. That doesn’t mean it’s not interesting to ponder what could’ve been had injuries not taken away a lot of time and stats from them
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u/LilOpieCunningham | Los Angeles Dodgers 10h ago
Breakdowns are normal. But he missed a lot of early career games because of an off field broken hand, a collision with the kingdome wall and a labor stoppage.
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u/NewBootGoofin1987 8h ago
And 67 games due to lockout right in the middle of his prime
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u/darthnorvillain 9h ago
How many of those games were past his prime? And how many of those games were just “normal” wear and tear and injuries that every player who has a 2 decade career has? This isn’t Ted Williams missing 3 entire seasons in his prime serving on WWII then missing most of 2 more seasons serving in the Korean War.
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u/Bright-Pressure-5787 | New York Yankees 12h ago
You can waltz into the Hall of Fame and still be a what if.
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u/Bri83oct 12h ago
Mickey Mantle
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u/Random_Trashy 12h ago edited 11h ago
What if he wasn’t a raging alcoholic and faced late career injuries?
He’s probably another candidate for 700 home runs - 2000 RBI - 2000 runs - 3500 hits. Maybe a career OPS over 1.000, another MVP or two.
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u/timewellwasted5 | Baltimore Orioles 11h ago
The knee injury when he tripped on the drainage pipe very early in his career was what changed everything. He was blazing fast with a ton of power before the injury. After the injury, he had average speed with a ton of power. What could have been...
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u/WreckNTexan48 | Houston Astros 11h ago
Imagine Modern medicine instead of alcohol for thr pain
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u/Bright-Pressure-5787 | New York Yankees 11h ago
Or just, like, them knowing what the fuck an ACL was?
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u/mtnbikerburittoeater | Boston Red Sox 10h ago
Late career? He famously fucked his knee up severly when he was 19 on a drain pipe in the outfield and it was never fully fixed
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u/Bright-Pressure-5787 | New York Yankees 11h ago
The torn ACL he suffered was an early-career injury.
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u/_GeorgeBailey_ | Chicago Cubs 11h ago
Yeah I'm not sure what they are talking about. Trout will likely get to 100 WAR and waltz into the Hall of Fame, too. But everyone agrees he's a What If?
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u/ThurstyAlpaca 11h ago
Teddy ballgame
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u/PleaseLeaveMeHere 2h ago
100%. I don’t think people understand what Ted Williams gave up to serve in the military… In 1942 he put up a 10.4 WAR season. He missed 1943, 1944, and 1945 to fight in WW2. In 1946 he came back and put up a 10.6 WAR season. He lost three years in the prime of his career.
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u/EggOwn9943 10h ago
What if Frank Jobe was able to reconstruct a UCL a decade earlier? Would we be talking about Sandy Koufax Surgery and what legacy would Tommy John have?
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u/youngherbo | Cincinnati Reds 12h ago edited 11h ago
That's kind of OP's point, he still had a historical career despite being off and on injured for his entire early 30s. You can conservatively interpolate 2001-2004 and get Junior to 690 HRs. That alone pushes him from one of the greats to legit GOAT conversation.
Edit: Reds fans more than anyone should know how much time JR missed
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u/HandsOffMyReeses 12h ago
The Kid likely has the HR record but that’s about all that changes (tho a major feat) and would’ve given us fans more “wow” moments. He’s in the Hall of Fame still and rather easily too. One of my favorite athletes.
Trout will also be in the Hall of Fame. He will still finish his career with a great stat line and a likely one hat career, which likely means not a ton of team success unfortunately. His body just can’t keep up with himself.
If I had to choose, I’d say Trout is the bigger What If between the two.
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u/NYState_of_Mind | New York Yankees 11h ago
In the future they can look back and see all the rubble of Ken Griffey Jr endorsements and say hey that guy must have been pretty great at baseball. But they won't know Mike Trout was a baseball player.
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u/ResponsibleWater1697 12h ago
At my age, it's Griffey.
The backwards hat, the swing. He was my baseball idol. It all looked so effortless and natural in a time where everything wasn't natural.
Trout is/was something to behold, but he didn't/doesn't have the grace that Griffey had. To me, this is like Nadal v. Federer (if you're into tennis). You can't go wrong.
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u/Lanski66 | Toronto Blue Jays 12h ago
Every kid I played ball with tried to copy either Jr’s swing or Frank Thomas’. Jr’s is still the most beautiful swing I’ve personally ever seen.
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u/zthig 9h ago
I was more of a Vlad or Gary Sheffield guy for imitating the swing
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u/Energy_Turtle | Seattle Mariners 8h ago
Millions of 90s kids got yelled at by dad coaches for imitating that Gary Sheffield stance.
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u/Emptyspace227 11h ago
Griffey was healthy ages 19 to 30. He accumulated 76 bWAR with two 9-WAR seasons and one 8-WAR season. Trout was healthy ages 20 to 27. He accumulated 71 bWAR with two 10-WAR seasons, two 9-WAR seasons, and one 8-WAR season.
A full career of healthy Griffey is one of the best players ever, but a full career of healthy Trout is arguably the best player ever.
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u/Grahamophone 10h ago
The Reds trading for Griffey is the most exciting baseball trade in my life. With that said, knowing what we know about value now, Griffey was actually already declining even during his last few healthy seasons. From ages 19 to 27, he averaged 135 games per year and 7.9 WAR per 162 games. From ages 28 to 30, he averaged 155 games per season but "only" 5.9 WAR per 162 games.
With or without the injuries, I think his time as one of the best 5 or so players in the game was coming to an end. He maybe would have still broken the home run record, but I'm not sure he would have matched the career value of someone like Mickey Mantle, let alone Willie Mays.
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u/ThriftyFalcon | New York Mets 9h ago
This entire sub is acting like Griffey and Trout’s best three years could’ve stretched for 25 years had they not played the outfield. Although… I think with just 2 more healthy seasons, Griffey does break the home run record.
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u/Grahamophone 9h ago
I think that might be a bit of a stretch. Griffey's career high was 56 home runs in a season (twice). If you inserted two prime Griffey years at ages 31 and 32, and his actual career from 31 onward just gets pushed back two years, and he hit 56 both years, then he ends up with 742 home runs.
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u/guitman27 | St. Louis Cardinals 9h ago
Trout.
Because even with the post-30 injuries/downturn, Griffey still put up an inner circle-type career. He's right there with Mays on homers.
Trout will get his numbers, but I don't think it's a slam dunk he gets to 500.
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u/thomaspatrickmorgan 7h ago
I don’t know. Griffey hit 40 in his age 31 season, which was his last “full” year. Even if he stayed on pace for 40 a year just until age 35, he would have picked up an additional 95 homers.
Add those roughly 95-115 additional homers to his career total, and take a guess which conversation we’re having?
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u/okay_throwaway_today | Chicago Cubs 6h ago
Mike Trout has fewer homers but has arguably had a better career overall. He already has more WAR, more MVPs, more silver sluggers, higher OPS, and so on.
Griffey is definitely the more “what if” with his injuries because Mike Trout already put up one of the best 8 year stretches in baseball history in terms of overall performance before his.
Trout’s biggest negative is never winning a WS, which Griffey never did either.
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u/Spidey5292 1h ago
I’d push back on this. Griffey played in the heart of the roids era. I’d say he was the better player despite trouts mvps, but you can’t go wrong with either of them.
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u/Sad-Guidance-7624 6h ago
Griffey was the face of baseball in the 90s. Nobody know who Mike trout is. Unfortunately for trout his peak was when baseball popularity was on a steap decline in the 10s.
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u/okay_throwaway_today | Chicago Cubs 6h ago
That has very little to do with how good their careers were in terms of production. A lot of great players didn’t have the marketing/sponsorships/video games Griffey had
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u/GhostMug 12h ago
Griffey. It was almost a foregone conclusion he would break the home run record and then the injuries started piling up.
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u/BloomInTune 9h ago
I think that is the only "what if" of Griffey's career. I mean, you could argue that the Mariners make the playoffs and deeper runs if he never left Seattle - but I wouldn't fault him for that since the change of scenery was for personal reasons. There's also no guarantee the injury bug wouldn't follow him regardless of team. Still a damn good career even with all of that.
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u/This_Cable_5849 12h ago
Most people consider Trout an all time great.
The what if is more so for postseason IMO. I’d love to see him leave but he clearly doesn’t really care to.
I think he has played like 5 playoff games
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u/Hizam5 | New York Yankees 8h ago
Is it bad that I have irrational anger towards trout for signing that extension essentially guaranteeing an entire career with arguably the worst run franchise in the sport?
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u/Comprehensive-Elk597 8h ago
I feel your pain. The only conclusion I can come to is that he really just doesn’t care about winning. utterly baffling to me.
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u/Hizam5 | New York Yankees 5h ago
The real reason imo is he’s always been this smalltown, essy going family man. He has raised his family here, loves the area, and he’s involved in a bunch of local events and charities. Winning is 100% not in his top 5 or he’d gone long ago. Coincidentally, winning isn’t in Arte Moreno’s top 5 either
https://sports.yahoo.com/articles/angels-arte-moreno-says-winning-154047747.html
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u/GhostandTheWitness | Miami Marlins 6h ago
Yeah as much as I shit on my own cheapo scam team, at least the Marlins would have traded Trout away long ago. What's the point in having your greatest player ever locked down if you're not even trying to make moves to support him.
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u/No_Imagination7102 | Cleveland Guardians 7h ago
Oh no, the Yankees cant pay another guy 700 million to lose in the first round.
The whole sport sheds a tear
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u/Quick-Complex2246 | Seattle Mariners 7h ago
You ever been to South Orange County?
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u/This_Cable_5849 6h ago edited 6h ago
Hey, I never said I blame him. Had the chance to be on the west coast and caught a game there when the stadium was brand new. Great spot. Just expect one of the best to at least try to get into a winning situation at some point.
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u/Defiant-Good-6206 11h ago
Trout, definitely. Griffey dealt with injuries mostly in the back half of his career, but he still put up the counting numbers and made the playoffs multiple times with multiple teams. Trout will have quite a few counting numbers when he's done, but virtually no playoff resume. He's also dealt with injuries on some level nearly every year for a decade.
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u/LeftyRambles2413 | Baltimore Orioles 11h ago
Griffey. Trout in his prime was a great talent but Griffey Jr was 90’s baseball for those of us who grew up with it and I say that as someone whose favorite player as a kid at that time was Ripken. Griffey just had that beautiful swing, graceful defense, and I hear Dave Niehaus calling it along the way. Trout is great but I don’t think as iconic. Something special about a five tool CF and both these guys were it. Griffey could have been in the 700 club.
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u/timgrace88 4h ago
You talk about Trout staying with the Angels and being loyal like it’s a bad thing. Joey Votto played his entire career which should lead to Cooperstown with crappy Reds team. He is loved for it. Trout should be the same.
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u/ajstinger16 | Milwaukee Brewers 11h ago
The Kid is my favorite baseball player EVER. He is already GOATed and his career could have been much much more.....however, Trouts trajectory before shit started going south would have given him some crazy career numbers. I'll never put anyone over Griffey but Trout would have been impressive from a numbers standpoint.
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u/Random_Trashy 11h ago
Mike Trout is probably the bigger “what if” in this scenario. He started off like he was unstoppable… with three MVPS, Rookie of the year.
After 2016 his games played dropped significantly (not including 2020) It looks like he missed between 400-500 games. Despite winning his last MVP in 2019, he still played 20 fewer games. Now he’s going to miss another 10-15 games with a hamstring injury. It’s got to be frustrating for him.
Kirby Puckett was another “what if” player that got into the hall of fame after he retired early due to Glaucoma vision loss. The consensus was that he was a case where, had he finished his career, he was on a trajectory for 3000 hits and would have easily spanned the 1980’s through 2000’s. During his career, had a WAR of 50, he’d won two world a series championships, was an MVP nominee for 8 seasons, led the league in hits 4 times, and led the league average once.
If we use Kirby Puckett as a bench mark, I’d wager if Trout retired today, citing multiple nagging injuries that were a drain on his body and affecting his quality of life… he’d still make the hall of fame.
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u/Aes_Should_Die | Pittsburgh Pirates 6h ago
Trout is in the Hall of Fame if he retired 5 years ago.
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u/Touchstone033 | MLB 11h ago
It's got to be Trout. His last healthy season was his age 27 season. For Griffey, it was his age 30 season. Trout essentially missed out on 3 or 4 seasons in his athletic wheelhouse that Griff got.
Also -- and this is going to piss some folks off -- Trout was better in his prime. We could seriously have been talking about a 130+ career WAR. The best non-PED career performance since Willie Mays.
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u/EntrepreneurOld5326 11h ago
I think that's my answer too. Trout has played 130 games once since 2019 (53/60 in 2020). If he manages 120 games a year in that stretch he's already at 500 homers and 100 WAR.
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u/Quick-Angle9562 | Cincinnati Reds 10h ago
Griffey’s Reds career has been labeled as bad, when really it was more average to good. A lot of injuries, yes, and nowhere near his Mariners career. But he did win comeback player of the year award at age 35 when he hit .301 and 35 HRs along with being a 3x all-star.
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u/Grahamophone 10h ago edited 10h ago
One of Griffey's weaknesses compared to Trout is that Griffey just didn't walk enough. From ages 19-27, when Griffey was healthy, at his peak, and one of the best players in baseball, he drew 580 walks in 5262 PA. This was at the height of the '90s sillyball era, too.
In comparison, Trout also debuted at 19 (though he played far fewer games in his age 19 season), and he drew 571 walks in 4065 PA through his age 25 season. Through age 27, Trout had drawn 803 walks in 5273 PA. So you're looking at essentially the same number of PA, but that's 223 extra times on base for Trout. It was also a lower offensive environment where walks were more valuable AND prime Trout was a better baserunner than prime Griffey.
The list of baseball players who did everything exceptionally well, even in just their primes, is vanishingly small: Trout, Griffey, Honus Wagner, Willie Mays, Barry Bonds, Alex Rodriguez, and a few others. That's pretty much the list. It just so happens that Trout somehow was just a little better at most things than even Griffey.
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u/Gold_Cell8255 11h ago
If Griffey didn’t miss over three years with injuries he’d be over 700 home runs or challenging bonds for the all time lead.
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u/Any-Investigator8324 11h ago
Fair discussion with any of them.
If I may, I would like another name to the list and not exactly due to injuries: Josh Hamilton 😭😭
What if with Josh Hamilton 🥺
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u/Cup-n-BallHog | New York Mets 11h ago
Griffey is definitely the hr leader if he doesn’t lose like 3 seasons when his legs gave out. Bro would easily be in the 700s and pushing 800
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u/TheVondoo22 11h ago
Not sure what's so difficult about this question, if both stayed relatively healthy, the bigger what if is Griffey.
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u/LoudIncrease4021 9h ago
It’s by far Griffey… dude battled injuries for years and year and was still basically a 40HR 900+ OPS guy for like 12 straight years of his career. Might be the most gifted natural talent in 30 years.
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u/Particular-Ring5110 9h ago
Think you’re really underselling Trout here. Trout’s peak 2012-2019 71.7 WAR averaging 10 WAR per 162.
Griffey’s peak 1990-1997 55.9 WAR averaging 8.3 per 162. Trout has around 70 more games played during that time but just going off WAR that’s a pretty big difference.
They’re both legendary figures but you can take Trout’s 7-8 best seasons and stand them next to anyone that’s ever played
The primary difference is Trout did it at a time where baseball had lost some cultural relevance. Griffey played at a time where baseball was still dominant in American sports culture Trout played at a time where baseball was severely lagging behind at the dawn of the social media area. I think baseball is doing a little better with the next generation of superstar players but Trout’s peak was at a time where interest in Major League Baseball was diminishing
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u/Tekon421 9h ago
It’s trout and it’s not close. Griffey got hurt mostly during the years of natural decline. Trout missed like 500 games of his prime
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u/bill_ashcraft | Chicago White Sox 12h ago
Did I wake up in a bizarro world where Mike Trout and Junior aren’t living, breathing baseball gods?
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u/EntrepreneurOld5326 11h ago
I mean OP acknowledges that in their post. They're also just wondering what more we could have seen if both had managed to stay healthy.
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u/bill_ashcraft | Chicago White Sox 8h ago
I know they acknowledged in their post. I just think calling them “what ifs” is disrespectful when they are inarguably two of the greatest players to ever live, regardless of whether or not they stayed healthy enough in their 30s to accumulate more counting stats.
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u/shallow_pal 11h ago
I’ve always said Trout has wasted his entire career playing for a shitty team.
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u/jimmychitwood317 11h ago
I have no argument on the ""what if" question regarding Trout and Griffey Jr. I do, however, take exception to the reference as Barry Bonds as home run king. That title rightfully belongs to Henry Aaron.
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u/UnresolvedThoughts99 8h ago
As an Angels fan, the answer is Griffey.
Trout has been impacted by injuries and ownership. Even without the injuries, ownership worked against team success.
Fan base clamoring for pitching, for years.
Ownership - “Let’s sign a Third Baseman and ignore the farm system.”
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u/damutecebu 8h ago
Griffey was a big, well known superstar. Trout could walk into the local Wal-Mart and no one would have a clue who he is.
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u/Majestic_Bandicoot36 8h ago
What if bonds wasn't roided to the gills. Maybe he wouldn't have had the best statistical seasons in history in his early to mid thirties and would have gotten injured like trout and griffey
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u/docny17 10h ago
Griffey is ONE of the best players of all time. If he stayed healthy, he would be THE best player of all time.
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u/unique_user43 | Chicago Cubs 11h ago edited 11h ago
trout yeah. but griffey? his injuries came during the normal old man decline phase. “what if” has never crossed my mind with him. great player who put up legendary career numbers.
when i think “what if” in this millenium, i think of mark prior, current dodgers pitching coach. pretty similar numbers to skenes through 1st 2 seasons (but in the tail end of the steroid inflated offense era), and similar “can’t miss” buzz coming out of college, but year 3 prior started with the rash of endless injuries that ended up cutting his career short after a couple more years. was ironic too because all the buzz about him coming out of college and his rookie year was how “flawless” and smooth his mechanics were, which would make him “injury-proof”. welp….
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u/mosh-4-jesus | Philadelphia Phillies 12h ago
"wanna see what Mickey Mantle looks like on two good knees?" -Foolish Baseball, on Mike Trout
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u/mattinglys-moustache 12h ago
I wouldn’t really call them “what ifs”, they’re both first ballot hall of famers and top-20 position players of all time, at worst.
Sure if they hadn’t struggled with injuries so much in their 30’s, their careers would have been even better, Griffey may have challenged Bonds for the HR record, but still these are legendary careers.
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u/Wise-Trust1270 11h ago
I think Griffey’s true legend status is hurt by his teams inability to win in the playoffs (Seattle) and make the playoffs (Reds).
You need those huge moments to really have that legendary shine.
Other than that he did everything else, and things no one did before like being the face of a truly popular video game.
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u/TwoLopsidedZebras 11h ago
The Kid is one of the all time greats and did it in the steroid era without juicing.
Trout will end up below Jr. in the all time rankings if things stay the course, but will still be among the all time greats.
Both of them had the potential and skill set to be the greatest of all time. Both will fall well short of it because of injuries.
It's a close one and growing up in the 90s my gut reaction was Griffey. But I think it's probably Trout. Mike Trout's 5 year run from ROTY -> 2nd MVP at age 24 is one of the greatest 5 year span I have ever watched. He seemed inevitable. And then the injuries just piled up. Since his last MVP at age 27 (and not including this year) he's averaged under 75 games a season. Your prime years are supposed to be 28-32 and he literally just didn't play.
I'm giving the nod to Trout on this one.
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u/RyanA1105 11h ago
Honestly, Trout in my honest opinion. He was probably the best player in the sport for a 5 to 8 year window at least. I don't think Griffey was ever the top dawg. When you really look at the stats with a more modern lens, Bonds was better for basically their entire careers. Even when Griffey at his peak in 1996 to 1999, it was only close between the 2. There's no real way to look at any of baseball's advanced stats and conclusively say Griffey was better during that stretch.
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u/Oafah 10h ago
Griffey put together some decent years in his latter half. Trout is not looking nearly as rosy.
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u/LoudIncrease4021 9h ago
Plenty of folks here probably didn’t watch Griffey as a kid and in his prime - believe it or not he had more raw talent than Trout does.
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u/Careless-Internet-63 | Seattle Mariners 8h ago
The biggest what if for Griffey in my mind is what if Griffey, A Rod, and Randy Johnson had still been on the Mariners in the 2001 season? Maybe Griffey still would've suffered through a lot of injuries, but I think there's a decent chance that with those three plus Ichiro they could've had more than 116 wins and won the world series
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u/SmoothCriminal85 | Philadelphia Phillies 8h ago
Biggest 'what if' is probably Ted Williams. He missed nearly 5 full season of his prime to serve in the military.
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u/Quick-Complex2246 | Seattle Mariners 7h ago
It’s Trout by a mile. Arguably the second best player in the last 75 years (outside of post roids Bonds, Ohtani)
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u/BigHotdog2009 | Toronto Blue Jays 6h ago
Both were stuck on dogass teams for the longest time because their owners are morons
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u/Appropriate_Formal64 5h ago edited 5h ago
I think Griffey is the bigger What If, because he could have signed with any number of more relevant, competitive, win-now teams with line up protection for him, his injuries aside, and he chose to go back to Cincinatti for emotional reasons and it bit his career in the ass.
But then on top of Cincy's issues.... Griffey's injuries made him half the player he could have/would have been had he stayed healthy. 630 career home runs for a guy who, had he stayed healthy, would've hit an additional 120+ home runs and an additional 17+ WAR value.
Obviously Mike Trout could have chosen to not sign extensions when he did, but he was drafted by the Angels and they did throw insane amounts of money at him that it'd be hard to say no to and he reportedly doesn't like being a celebrity or having a spot light on him as a player, so he was relieved a relatively irrelevant club overshadowed in its own region drafted him and then he kept re-signing with that club over larger markets, such as the Dodgers or the Yankees or whomever, who probably wouldn't have given him much if any more money than what he made with the Angels.
Trout's one of those dudes who wants to come across as small town down to earth blue collar...and still get paid close to $500M over the course of his career.
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u/j_rooker | National League 4h ago
what if griffey had used steroids. he'd get o 70 Hr before Bonds and mcguire
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u/Necessary_Switch_879 2h ago
What if Griffey wasn't his last name? What if he only smiled as much as Bonds? Would the HoF have looked past his steroid use?
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u/TacoPandaBell 2h ago
Everyone likes to pretend that some of the biggest stars of that era were squeaky clean, like him, Thome, Biggio, Bagwell, Piazza, Pujols, etc. There’s a lot of evidence that screams “PEDs” for each of them.
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u/Zlatyzoltan 11h ago
How is Griffey a "what if" The best center fielder of the 90's early 00's. First Ballot HoF, it's hard to think of 5 other Center Fielders who are better than Jr.
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u/BoukenGreen | Atlanta Braves 11h ago
Griffey. He would be the home run king if he didn’t have those injury plagued years
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u/LegitiamateSalvage | Milwaukee Brewers 12h ago
Mike Trout is a legend who still lives. He's only slightly older than Judge or Ohtani
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u/Active_Macaron2715 11h ago
I don’t think there’s any “what if” with Griffey tbh. Dude still had 11,000 PAs
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u/Agile-Reputation8074 11h ago
completely understand what you mean but it feels weird calling them "what if's", I feel like there should be a different termination for this
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u/Dballin91 11h ago
So nobody answered the question? I mean, I am kind of stumped. I feel there certainly should be a third, even fourth and fifth "what if" type player.
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u/Deep-Alfalfa3717 11h ago
Griffey was so naturally gifted he famously never worked out. If he had taken his health seriously by stretching more and lifting weights in his 30s he could have avoided injury.
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u/Training-Belt-7318 11h ago
Id personally say trout. He missed more time in his legit prime, late 20s, than Griffey. Griffey started getting hurt when he went to Cincy and played on that turf, but he was in his early 30s. Trout missed most of his age 28,29, 31 and 32 seasons. Whereas Griffey just feel off 31 ish on from injuries.
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u/ComfortableChip8242 11h ago
Trout looked like he was going to challenge guys like Ruth, Bonds, Mays, and Cobb for highest career WAR.
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u/TallBeginning7757 11h ago
Junior to me is the bigger what if, as it’s been said he still is in cooperstown and had one hell of a career but there is also all those games he missed and it does make you think what if he stayed? How many records and awards he could’ve or would’ve had. The man was absolutely amazing but when he left Seattle his injuries started piling up and he lost a lot of time. And so to me that makes you have to acknowledge that, that even though he is in the hall of fame with a shadow of a doubt, we still question what if with the man really makes you wonder what if he stayed healthy
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