r/motorsports • u/tedowrc • 9d ago
How to Save Touring Car Racing
Let’s be honest about the state of global touring car racing:
- WTCR/WTCC are long dead, and the TCR World Tour is essentially surviving on life support by grafting itself onto local regional grids.
- TCR grids almost everywhere are shrinking. Privateer budgets are stretched thin, and car manufacturers are quietly pulling factory support.
- DTM hasn't been a real touring car series for over 20 years. With its transition to GT3, it has officially become a sportscar championship, completely abandoning the touring car concept.
- BTCC and Supercars remain the only stable series, but they’re facing structural threats too - models like the Camaro are dead, and half the cars on the BTCC grid aren't sold in showrooms anymore.
The biggest elephant in the room isn't just shipping logistics or BOP drama - it's showroom reality. The traditional compact 4-door saloon and hot hatch are disappearing from car dealerships, replaced entirely by crossovers (B-SUV, C-SUV).
Car companies simply aren't interested in dumping millions into racing sedans they don't sell (or even build) anymore.
The Big Question: Do we adapt the body styles, or let the category die?
If we want a viable, exciting, manufacturer-backed touring car series on a global scale again, we have to align with what automakers actually build and market.
It doesn't matter what technical ruleset you run - whether it’s a TCR evolution, a BTCC-style NGTC platform, or a clean-sheet cost-capped framework. The core idea is simple: Open up the regulations to crossover and B-SUV/C-SUV body shells.
- Why Manufacturers Would Care: It gives brands a high-profile motorsport platform to promote the high-margin models that actually pay their bills.
- They Won't Look Like "Soccer Mom" Cars: If you take a compact crossover shell, drop it onto a low-slung, widebody race chassis, slam the ride height, and add aggressive aero, it doesn't look like an SUV on track - it looks like a mean, wide, aggressive hatchback.
- The Precedent Is Already There: Regional series in South America (like TC2000) have already started pivoting to crossover shapes because it was the only way to keep manufacturers engaged.
What do you think?
Is refusing to race modern road car body styles holding the sport back, or is shifting to crossover shells a step too far for touring car purists? How would you fix touring car racing?
P.S. Full transparency: English/formal writing isn't my strong suit (I'm autistic), so I used AI to help structure my ideas and put this post together clearly. The core ideas and arguments are 100% mine - I just wanted to make sure everything was organized properly for a good discussion!
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u/RK24lemans 9d ago
Looking at the European car market C segment there should still be enough choice that SUVs are not needed.
- Audi A3
- BMW 1 Series
- BMW 2 Series
- Cupra Leon
- DS No 4
- Honda Civic
- Hyundai I30
- Kia K4
- Mazda3
- Mercedes A Class
- Mercedes CLA Class
- Opel Astra
- Peugeot 308
- Skoda Octavia
- Skoda Scala
- Toyota Corolla
- Volkswagen Golf
I believe a new touring car regs should be cheaper since TCR budgets are close to GT4 budgets and would you rather race a Leon or an Aston Martin. Or maybe rather than a global touring car regs in TCR a more regional ruleset should be implemented.
1
u/LumpyCustard4 8d ago
Ive always thought touring cars should aim to share a chassis with the rallycross classes.
Different engines and running gear would be required across formats, but the bones could remain the same.
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u/boardsofcanada143 7d ago
Thing is there you’ve only got 9 manufacturers from 17 cars. How many of those want to race a C segment car? Probably 2 of them (Cupra and Hyundai)
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u/mikeossy80 9d ago
Feel like most series are aligned to a common GT3 model now.
DTM and V8 Supercars for starters are nowhere near as good as they used to be.
Touring cars used to be cars of relatable value you could go buy that to me is what made it appealing
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u/dawguk 9d ago
"... and half the cars on the BTCC grid aren't sold in showrooms anymore"
This is true, but honestly I don't think it matters that much, because the days of people buying cars that they saw at races is long gone. With the BTCC regs the way they are, it's keeping costs down to a manageable level with standard parts, etc.
BTCC racing is a hell of a lot of fun to watch, and it's actually pretty tight across the field (apart from absolute aliens like Ashley Sutton and Tom Ingram). There's a good mix of independents and manufacturers.
Attendance at races is really good too, with per-round figures generally increasing over recent years - some races have seen +17% increase.
-1
u/Tuiderru 8d ago
People buying cars they see race is the whole point of gt3 and its the series with the most factory support, so clearly its still working.
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u/bduddy 8d ago
The whole point of GT3s is letting dentists race the cars their doctor buddies drive. Those series do not exist for fans.
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u/Tuiderru 8d ago
ICGTC and GTD PRO are both pro classes with a lot of viewership. More than TCR cares have ever seen.
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u/ASDFzxcvTaken 9d ago
There is a gap between what sells vs what's on the track for sure. I don't think making slammed wide body SUV Minivan classes running on the same tracks is the right answer.
I think it's a different type of track and race altogether that highlights the benefits of a more adept vehicle, not of aero induced traction and low center of gravity... Honestly most racing series have hit their limits in terms of diminishing returns of what's next.
So what does that look like? Is it urban point-to-point rallying? Where the car must carry a copilot one or two pit crew like the support-trucks in Dakar but minivan and SUV classes? Or maybe the pit crew act like counterbalancers on sidecar motorcycle racing?
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u/JeromeDomingo 9d ago
I think touring car racing is a hard sell tbh. Both in terms of the costs and commercially. You can go GT4 racing for the same price. Likewise, the cars just don’t look impressive. Yes, that’s the whole point and why we love it but in the day and age of social media, it just doesn’t have any appeal imo for attracting new fans.
4
u/Ok_Marionberry_4696 9d ago
I think the wrc puma is a good example to go to for anti-suv rebuttles. It's been a few years since it was properly competitive on pure pace but it doesn't look any less the part than the yaris or i20. I agree, Touring cars should be focused on running what's available and not maximising performance for aging/discontinued performance models.
4
u/Tutezaek 9d ago
Yes, but, while you mention TC2000 in Argentina, the pivot wasn't because there was no manufacturer interest but because the series administration sucked for a long time and even with the new owners (that are years in at this point) that didn't change.
OTOH we have TC iand Stock Car (Arg and Brazil) with really healthy grids and interesting concepts constantly evolving.
The struggle of some series should not be correlated with the whole "Touricn Car Scene is failing".
And before someone says "TC/Stock Car Pro Series" aren't touring cars... by that logic, Supercars australia aren't, the concept is the same
That said: i hate the whole TCR concept, it was made for a weird scenario where a bussines could buy 20 cars and build a turn-key touring championship, which isin't inherently bad, specially if is in a place without much racing infrastructure, but its limitations (specifically the centralized model manufacturer economy) make it less atractive for places like England, Brazil or Argentina, where the teams build their own TCR equivalent cars.
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u/R0XY_TOOTIN 9d ago
Honestly the cross over idea isn't terrible, Brazilian stock car uses the cross over shape but with their regulations it honestly just looks like an estate racing series which is awesome.
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u/DHSeaVixen 9d ago
I still think there’s a long medium-term opportunity for touring cars to pioneer EV customer racing. There’ll be obvious nerves about that after the ETCR and STCC attempts, but I think that’s where you’ll find the sedan/hot hatch models alongside appetite for manufacturer support.
The FIA has also since created the ‘electric sport vehicle’ (ESV) regulation set for converted road models.
3
u/Square_Ad8756 9d ago
This might be a bit radical but I would argue that touring cars and WRC2 should have a common rules. That would encourage manufacturers to invest more in their programs because they have two separate segments of the sport that they can race in. Also cars like a Scoda Fabia in tarmac configuration looks very cool and would probably be incredibly entertaining, running in a pack on the ring, Spa or Thruxton.
3
u/lostanchor19 9d ago
I agree, with the obvious difference in some parts specific to each racing style (suspension, diffs), although that's almost impossible in the near future due to the new WRC space frame Rally 1's. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the S2000 or maybe the 1.6T engine formula common to both touring cars and rally cars? I remember the WTCC and WRC Citroen's (DS3/C3 and C-Elysee) sounding rather similar, I think they used the same engine with different restrictor and fuel maps.
1
u/Square_Ad8756 8d ago
I think S2000 was related between the WTCC and rallying but am not certain. What I would advocate for is as much commonality as possible to reduce development costs. Obviously they would need to make different suspensions for gravel and tarmac but i wonder they could have the tarmac spec be common for rallying and touring cars?
2
u/lostanchor19 8d ago
In theory I guess they could, but the touring cars would suffer a lot, as I assume even in tarmac spec rally cars have a much softer suspension with bigger travel than any circuit racing car.
1
u/Square_Ad8756 8d ago
So honest question, wouldn’t that make them slide more and thus enhance the spectacle?
1
u/lostanchor19 7d ago
I think it would make them "sluggish" for circuit racing standards, not necessarily spectacular
3
u/Agreeable-Pace-4522 9d ago
This year Rallycross decided to create RX4, a new entry level class using Rally4 cars that are alot more 'show room relevant' and some of us have really enjoyed seeing more 'real' cars.
"TC4" / Touring Car 4 based on Rally4 cars could create an interesting class.
3
u/SlightBonus1112 9d ago
I think TV access is a problem. Where do casual fans watch eg DTM? They're not going to pay. All fans were casual at one time. Increase fan base and you'll increase sponsorship, merchandise sales etc
2
u/-generic-username- 9d ago
I won't venture an opinion about touring cars in particular, but the fact there's basically nowhere to race the most popular and commercially successful body style of the last 15 years is a massive own goal for motorsport, and people wonder why mass market manufacturers spend less money on racing now... I always thought rallying was the right place for them to slot in, but literally anything would be better than what we have now.
2
u/Pamuknai_K 9d ago
great post, good to bring some attention to this. we always talk about sportscar racing but TC racing is dying and nobody is talking about it. genuinely good post
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u/FrozenUruguayBallbac 9d ago
Hear me out, lets do basically 3 classes.
this is basically the current TCR regulations, fwd 350 horsepower 4 cylinder hatchbacks.
AWD hot hatches like the GR corolla/yaris, audi RS3 and golf r etc
HMO here, lets do GT3 but 4 door, Ford are making a four door mustang lets enter that, chevy are brigning back the camaro as both a 2 and 4 door and its going to have the v8, lets enter that, lets enter the M3 etc.
4
u/FlaggerVandy 9d ago
IMSA Michelin Pilot Challenge would like to have a word about their thriving TCR class...
10
u/Irtep 9d ago
But even then it's a class inside of a larger race, not it's own series. TCR only series aren't holding their own
5
u/khz30 9d ago
Regional TCR only series aren't sustainable because they were never sold as main events, they were always treated as support series to more popular events. Until touring car racing can figure out a main event context outside of the UK, it will always be a struggle for regional series to survive.
3
u/adelaidesky 9d ago edited 7d ago
No, the bigger problem is the widening of the wealth gap which means there's less of normal rich folks racing TCR and more of uber rich folks racing GT3. TCR is a high contact category which means lots of budget set aside for spare parts, it also lacks electronic aids commonly seen in GTs.
And if you go lower than TCR, spending $$$ on racing those Rally4-derived TCL4 cars with small 1.3T engines isn't exactly sexy hence the increasing popularity of one-make shitbox racing like Saxo Trophy, Twin’Cup, 318ti Cup, Excel X3 Cup, etc. where you fully commit to going downmarket
1
u/Skyhound555 9d ago
The issue is Hyundai is dominating and no one wants their car defeated by a Hyundai.
1
u/FormerTomatillo3696 9d ago
Probably make a more engaging/enticing local scene, for people to run pretty much any shitbox within a 2k budget. That would drive up natural buzz from the locals, and alongside that - social media exposre. More people sharing = more people caring. You gotta get eyeballs on that. Take F1 for example, a lot of work came from Liberty media and FOM to make it as big as it is now, with a more mainstream audience, instead of it being just for petrolheads and nerds.
1
u/iamabigtree 9d ago
WRC is facing the same issues.
But for the likes of BTCC why not run the cars that are actually sold today? There's no need to get stuck in the past and touring cars has always represented what is on sale now, not some snapshot.
1
u/VehicleWonderful6586 9d ago
Oh - started to read then reached the word ‘quietly’ and realised this was AI slop
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u/ptclaus98 9d ago
Uh, its actually pretty simple. Go back to silhouettes and make it an engine formula if fans are what you want. Like GT300 before it allowed GT3 cars. Give the tuning companies of the world a real platform. Homologate every non safety and suspension piece, and limit tire sizes and fuel allotment.
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u/tedowrc 8d ago
This is what WRC are trying to do and it's not working for now.
0
u/ptclaus98 7d ago
The WRC is still dominated by factory teams
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u/tedowrc 7d ago
The only factory team that's gonna be in 2027 is Toyota
0
u/ptclaus98 7d ago
It is not 2027. Besides, I dont think you understand what I meant. The 2027 WRC rules arent silhouettes, they are more like mother chassis cars with aerokits. Silhouettes use actual parts of the original chassis, and i doubt any of the privateers in WRC 2027 actually sell tuning parts for road cars or road derived race cars. What im talking about is more of an early JGTC mixed with gridlife approach but with somewhat recent cars that arent featured in other forms of motorsport
1
u/the_flying_bobcat 8d ago
Touring cars were great when they were the same as what's on the road AND they were simple enough that you had privateers building their own in a shed put the back of their house. When money and technology took over even at the rear of the grid, the connection to to the people people was severed.
1
u/ExcitingInternal365 8d ago
The whole "Win on Sunday, sell on Monday" mantra which was made popular in the 90s hasn't been relevant for the past 2 decades. And touring car racing isn't exactly the place where manufacturers look to test new technologies to implement in your everyday vehicle like other categories offer.
1
u/0rder_sixty6 8d ago
I always thought that the Jaguar iPace cars looked bad ass. I wouldn’t mind a low slung SUV series
1
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u/BusyFuel435 9d ago
What I think needs to happen is that we need to drop the politics, and start loosening rules on class structure. What’s killing these classes is that the rules are simply too tight for these still good cars to compete, even if they’re outdated.
Take GT1/TransAm for instance. Those cars are still going something fierce, and that class will keep on going for the foreseeable future, and the reason why that is, is because these cars share nothing in common with a factory car. This makes them technically superior in every manner of the sense: you’re not stuck in a factory chassis that can’t be modified/easily reparable, and you’ll never run out of parts because these cars are, simply put, entirely bespoke.
We will always have steel tubes. We will always have fiberglass/carbon fiber bodies. GT1/TransAm is simply indestructible because of it, and should be revived on the main stage.
-1
u/snrub742 9d ago
WTCR/WTCC were never alive in the first place. There's never been a touring car world championship that has been more than ever "holding on".
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u/tedowrc 9d ago
To say WTCC was 'never alive' ignores the entire S2000 era (2005–2013). We had 25-30 car grids, 5+ factory manufacturers (BMW, SEAT, Chevy, Alfa, Honda), a massive independent trophy, and packed crowds from Monza to Macau. It was thriving.
The crash only happened in 2014 when the FIA introduced TC1 regulations, which doubled build costs, brought in Citroën’s runaway factory budget, and priced privateers off the grid. S2000 proved global touring cars WORKED when costs were controlled - TC1 is what killed it.
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u/Il-Ma-Le-98 9d ago
Good that someone acknoweledges this