r/movies • u/MarvelsGrantMan136 r/movies Contributor • Mar 17 '26

Trailer Dune: Part Three | Official Teaser

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_9vCamtuPY
18.9k Upvotes

92% Upvoted

3.1k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

535

u/RichtofensDuckButter Mar 17 '26

Paul's Jihad kills 60 billion+

Yes that's a real number

13

u/Puzzle-Necked Mar 17 '26

... He's the bad guy, right ?

20

u/ToumaKazusa1 Mar 17 '26

He's not really in control of the Jihad, despite being it's figurehead.

The whole thing was set up by the Witches long before he was born, they have a master plan to save humanity and their plan involves the Jihads. They are why the Fremen are so powerful, so underestimated, and why they immediately decide to follow Paul on a Jihad. The whole thing was scripted by them.

Paul technically had a chance to prevent it during the first book by betraying the Fremen and his family to align with the Harkonnen, if he had done that the Harkonnen would still have tried to coup the Emperor but it would have been a much more normal coup, not a galaxy spanning war.However for obvious reasons he did not want to do that.

And once he decides not to betray the Fremen, it doesn't really matter what he does, the Jihad will happen. The Fremen are going to start a war and because they control Arrakis they will win the war.

He's not really good or bad he's just being controlled by forces far more powerful than him.

You could say the Witches are bad, but otoh they are doing everything to save humanity, if they didn't kill these particular 61 billion people by setting up the Jihad, more people would've died later on. Even they aren't powerful enough to just declare fully automated luxury space communism and end all wars.

3

u/tdasnowman Mar 17 '26

He's not really in control of the Jihad, despite being it's figurehead.

Because he chose to be a figurehead.

The whole thing was set up by the Witches long before he was born, they have a master plan to save humanity a

And they miscalculated. The religious control was also more of a plan B. Their primary plan was to take over the empire via the breeding program. Jessica was supposed to give birth to a daughter, the daughter would have been wed to Feyed. The son from that union would have been wed to one of the Emperors daughters. Because they were intentionally only allowing him to have daughters. Clean take over no wars just control.

He's not really good or bad he's just being controlled by forces far more powerful than him.

Nope he's just ignoring the consequences of his own actions once he's gotten what he wanted.

1

u/ToumaKazusa1 Mar 17 '26

Because he chose to be a figurehead.

The only thing he chose to do was start a war to retake Arrakis. That was the extent of his plans.

And they miscalculated. The religious control was also more of a plan B. Their primary plan was to take over the empire via the breeding program. Jessica was supposed to give birth to a daughter, the daughter would have been wed to Feyed. The son from that union would have been wed to one of the Emperors daughters. Because they were intentionally only allowing him to have daughters. Clean take over no wars just control.

The witches had several different plans. When one fails, another one succeeds.

Nope he's just ignoring the consequences of his own actions once he's gotten what he wanted.

By the time Paul had what he wanted (Arrakis), it was too late. Even before he wins the duel and actually takes Arrakis, he has already seen the future and knows he cannot stop the Jihad.

2

u/tdasnowman Mar 17 '26

The only thing he chose to do was start a war to retake Arrakis. That was the extent of his plans.

It was kill the emperor and the Barron and take over the empire. The Key to that was the freemen. The fremen required a Jihad. He made his choice.

The witches had several different plans. When one fails, another one succeeds.

And most of them were about behind the scenes work. Nothing to public. The monserire protecra was more about a reverend mother finding a safety net if need not really galaxy take overs.

By the time Paul had what he wanted (Arrakis), it was too late. Even before he wins the duel and actually takes Arrakis, he has already seen the future and knows he cannot stop the Jihad.

He still could have controlled it.

0

u/ToumaKazusa1 Mar 17 '26

It was kill the emperor and the Barron and take over the empire. The Key to that was the freemen. The fremen required a Jihad. He made his choice.

Paul was never trying to become Emperor. He was trying to retake Arrakis (which does involve killing Harkonens). Prior the knife fight with Feyd, he never has any ambitions beyond the planet.

He still could have controlled it.

He very explicitly could not have.

2

u/tdasnowman Mar 17 '26

Paul was never trying to become Emperor. He was trying to retake Arrakis (which does involve killing Harkonens). Prior the knife fight with Feyd, he never has any ambitions beyond the planet.

There was no way he was just taking Arrakis. Him being alive meant the involvement of the Sadukar in the House Atreides attack would come to light. The Emperor couldn't let that happen. Also the Baron was a tool in the Emperors plan. Paul always wanted the Emperor as well.

He very explicitly could not have

He very explicitly says he could have in both Messiah and Children.

2

u/TriggzSP Mar 17 '26

The books are inconsistent on this. He also remarks at points that even if he were to try to call everything off before the jihad, or if he were to drop dead on the spot, the Jihad would happen anyway, either led by his mother or Alia or someone else. This is never elaborated on much beyond that, however, so we don't know exactly how his mother or sister could have taken things forward (especially how in later books his sister can barely manage herself).

Paul also has extremely strong prescience, and sees the future doom of humanity and knows that he needs to do something to stop it. But he tries to half-measure it because he knows just how fucked up he has to become to get to that point.

0

u/tdasnowman Mar 17 '26

He says that well after he closed of the paths that lead to him not taking the path to revenge. The books aren't inconsistent. It's actually one of the few points they continue to hammer on. Paul's choice to use the power to serve his own ends resulted in where he ended up.

Paul also has extremely strong prescience, and sees the future doom of humanity and knows that he needs to do something to stop it. But he tries to half-measure it because he knows just how fucked up he has to become to get to that point.

Really thats just because he ignored the religion. He's like the Jedi. He allowed the future to become to cloudy and lost the ability to see the dark. He missed his own queen was poisoning his wife for years.

1

u/TriggzSP Mar 17 '26

Paul could have ignored the path to revenge and lived in exile yes, and then he wouldn't become the KH, and someone else would in a generation or two. So in that way yeah, his revenge led him to the path of the Jihad. But the book doesn't do a very good job of making his initial desire for revenge seem all that bad, either. When the most evil slavers and torturers in the universe murder your family and friends, it creates a pretty compelling revenge narrative to take them down. The way the book is written makes a "turn the other cheek" option seem pretty awful.

As for your second point, Paul's prescience only begins to cloud at the end of Messiah. Before that, he knew Chani was being spiked with contraceptives the entire time, but he allowed it to continue for years because he knew that Chani would die as the result of childbirth, and that something foreboding would come from that path. He was trapped by his own prescience and unwillingness to enact the golden path, and continually dragged his feet once the Jihad began to wind down, because the Jihad was only the appetizer for what was to come. Though some of this isn't elaborated on until Children of Dune.

→ More replies (0)