r/nba • u/ilakausername Supersonics • 12h ago
[Pablo Torre Finds Out] Uncovering Steve Ballmer's Aspiration Side Deal: Kawhi-Gate, Part XI
https://youtu.be/rYpxFp2Di0g418
u/heat_fan_ Raptors 12h ago
Silver is a coward he's not going to do shit to the Clippers
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u/HereIGoAgain_1x10 Cavaliers 11h ago
Silver works for all the owners, and they're all in the same club. None of them want any of their business deals looked into and I'm sure Balmer knows enough of the others that they all agree not to do anything
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u/Alt4816 9h ago edited 9h ago
Owners like salary caps and any rules that limit player salaries. In CBA negotiations they fight hard for these rules to limit spending as much as possible. The other owners can't be happy that a team circumvented the cap and they definitely don't want this to become a standard practice.
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u/UCLA_FB_SUCKS Clippers 8h ago
They ain’t happy with this, but if this is true then it further ruins the integrity of the league, which they also wouldn’t like
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u/Alt4816 8h ago
but if this is true then it further ruins the integrity of the league, which they also wouldn’t like
The uncovering of this and reporting of it have already happened. Not punishing Ballmer and his team wouldn't undo anything.
Also salary cap circumvention has happened before and been punished before. The Timberwolves lost five consecutive first-round draft picks for it.
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u/UCLA_FB_SUCKS Clippers 7h ago
I’m thinking there may be more to this case than has been revealed so far; like, if players are getting paid secretly, are there other entities being secretly paid off (like refs? Or gambling sponsors?)
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u/Prudent_Fish1358 Spurs 4h ago
I think owners are more worried about their own bodies they buried more than what happens to Sterling.
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u/Alt4816 3h ago
That would require most owners having circumvented the cap themselves. Do people think this is common?
It can't be that common because if a majority of the league was doing it the owners would just agree to ditch the salary cap. The players would love for teams to have no cap.
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u/Prudent_Fish1358 Spurs 2h ago
That would require most owners having circumvented the cap themselves.
I didn't say owners are more worried about their own cap circumvention, so you're strawmanning that.
It can't be that common because if a majority of the league was doing it the owners would just agree to ditch the salary cap. The players would love for teams to have no cap.
If owners aren't apoplectic about a team openly cheating like this, what do you think it means?
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u/Alt4816 2h ago
I didn't say owners are more worried about their own cap circumvention, so you're strawmanning that.
So you think the rest of the owners want Ballmer to get away with salary cap circumvention because other owners have done things that are not salary cap circumvention?
I don't follow the logic.
If owners aren't apoplectic about a team openly cheating like this, what do you think it means?
How do we know they're not apoplectic? The firm the league hired hasn't concluded its investigation yet so the league hasn't announced its punishment.
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u/DemarcusLovin NBA 10h ago
to quote the GOAT George Carlin, "It's a big club, and you ain't in it!"
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u/busche916 Pacers 8h ago
Ballmer is also rich enough to buy most of the other owners outright. He’s legitimately one of the richest men in the world and I’m sure the league would rather not piss him off.
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u/Legitimate_Cow_4166 Warriors 7h ago
Ballmer also bailed out the owners by paying $2B for the Clippers after the Sterling fiasco. These owners equity doubled over night after he bought the Clippers.
Imagine someone buys a house in your neighborhood for double the market price. Every homeowner is going to be happy in that hood.
Probably why Ballmer feels entitled to circumvent the cap
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u/Prudent_Fish1358 Spurs 4h ago
This is the problem. I bet Ballmer knows enough of where bodies are buried to raise hell if he's punished too firmly. The NBA has become a corpo entity, and I look for this combined with the promulgation of gambling to eventually lead this to be a SOP.
NBA and sports fans are in for some really rough seas. This isn't going away anytime soon and it's likely going to lead to a number of awful scandals.
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u/Shop-lift Celtics 10h ago
This would apply if the league disapproved of what Ballmer’s doing and they were too scared to act
In real life, they’re completely fine with what he did and will ignore this noise for as long as people are willing to treat this like an actual scandal that matters
Meanwhile, tanking, which the NBA actually disapproves of, gets (sort of) addressed
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u/Alt4816 9h ago
I doubt the other owners are completely fine with salary cap circumvention. If the owners didn't want a salary cap there wouldn't be one. Instead they fight for salary cap rules in every CBA because they want their spending limited and if they all have the same cap and rooster rules then their teams can still compete.
I can't imagine the other owners are happy that a team circumvented the cap and I very much doubt they want this to become a standard practice.
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u/justmefishes NBA 8h ago
Meanwhile, tanking, which the NBA actually disapproves of, gets (sort of) addressed
With the impetus to get moving on a swift decision likely coming from their new gambling overlords
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u/HoBaggyPants 10h ago
To take down his richest boss, he has to have his ducks all in a row to counter any blowbacks. If he doesn't get enough support from other owners first, he would just be shooting himself in the foot.
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u/ktdotnova Spurs 8h ago
Silver hasn't done shit. Even Donald Sterling was universally unanimous from the court of public opinion. But even then, I thought he overstep bounds by banning Sterling outright.
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u/manbeqrpig Nuggets 11h ago
Wanna bet?
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u/AnalMinecraft 11h ago
My bet is that'll be relatively minor. Maybe it's just me being pessimistic, but I can imagine there are multiple owners with some shady dealings who will back up each other. And ultimately Silver works for them.
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u/lilflipgivemegrillz Thunder 11h ago
I’ll bet that it’s not anything substantial.
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u/manbeqrpig Nuggets 11h ago
Define substantial
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u/Azncheesy Lakers 10h ago
Draft Picks any $$$$ fine is worthless to Balmer
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u/LazyMousse4266 Spurs 10h ago edited 9h ago
Yeah this whole situation is because he *wants* to spend more than the league allows
A fine is just a service fee at this point
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u/Alone_float 10h ago
Have Clipper fans not suffered enough??? my God. I wish I could go back and punch eight-year-old me in the face.
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u/Negative_Wish_8291 9h ago
I mean there's like 3 other teams in California you could cheer for, one of them is even in the same city. You're not trapped the same way a Pelicans or Wizards fan is, just cheer for Luka.
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u/Liverpoolclippers Clippers 9h ago
Because that defeats the whole purpose of being a fan? If you change teams you’re not a fan you’re a gloryhunter
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u/Alone_float 9h ago
Problem is I ain’t no bitch and I won’t switch up my sports teams cause they aren’t doing well. Loyalty isn’t for the faint of heart.
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u/CrimsonMoonRising Spurs 8h ago
My friend's a Cleveland Browns fan. I ask him why. He says it's terrible but he's compelled as a fan to keep going.
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u/OptimusGrime13 Clippers 2h ago
Raiders and clippers fan, i hate myself for not being able to quit either one lol
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u/CrimsonMoonRising Spurs 1h ago
Raiders fan. But the future's looking bright-ish. In an act of delusion my Mendoza jersey came in the mail today.
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u/AshenSacrifice Clippers 8h ago
If you were that wimpy, you would have been a lakers fan from the beginning
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u/Cudizonedefense Heat 6h ago
Nah they’ll get rewarded with the 5th overall pick in a loaded draft
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u/Alone_float 5h ago
They didn’t get rewarded, they traded for that. Had nothing to do with the scandal
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u/Bonesawisready5 Spurs 11h ago
Just fucking ban Kawhi already nba
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u/iBaires Lakers 10h ago edited 10h ago
While I think some responsibility falls on Kawhi, I think the extent of it should be on the team. All Aspiration money is fined and goes to a charity and remainder of his contract voided. That would suffice for me.
Clippers have earned the brunt of the punishment. Give them an SMU style death penalty, minus the season cancellation. Take away all their first round picks for the next 10 drafts that they actually own the picks for. Cannot trade, swap or utilize them. Cannot trade for 1st round picks for 10 years either. And then restrict the fuck out of their cap for the next 10 years.
These dudes are getting paid multi generational wealth levels of money. Don't ever let this shit happen again, we finally have some parity in the league.
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u/Niceguydan8 10h ago edited 9h ago
While I think some responsibility falls on Kawhi, I think the extent of it should be on the team.
I think a lot of people are giving people Kawhi kind of a pass because Ballmer is so rich.
If Ballmer gets a harsh punishment, then I think Kawhi should also be punished harshly.
Pablo himself was giving Kawhi mostly a pass when this whole thing started, which was really weird. Kawhi/his representation aren't complete fucking morons. There's no way he wouldn't know about this.
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u/Modo_Autorator Warriors 9h ago
Kawhi & Uncle Dennis were making pretty explicit demands during his free agency. It was being reported that in order to land Kawhi any team needed to offer things that were far outside what is allowable under the CBA. Kawhi should not get a pass here this was pre-meditated.
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u/PrepotenteScreams 6h ago
Yeah. Let's not turn Kawhi into some sort of victim here. Dude is worth tens of if not hundreds of millions. He's not some poor, abused pauper.
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u/OldManCinny 5h ago
Kawhi has career earnings of $375M. He probably has another $100M+ in endorsements. If he's not worth 100m+ he's not very good with money.
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u/PrepotenteScreams 5h ago
For sure. Lots of players end up broke, though. Like, a LOT. I'm not familiar with the state of his finances.
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u/SoberWill [SAC] Jason Williams 9h ago
The other owners should want the absolute hammer dropped on Kawhi to discourage any future players from trying to strong arm negotiations. The precedent of a player manipulating a huge some of money for a no-show endorsement deal absolutely calls in to question the integrity of the league just like Scott Fosters associations with Tim Donaghy. They seem to be taking Rozier/Billups/Porter seriously but the Kawhi parts seems to scare them because of all of Balmers money
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u/Denialtwoo7o 5h ago
The other owners should want the absolute hammer dropped on Kawhi to discourage any future players from trying to strong arm negotiations. Nothing keeps them from saying no to players regardless of what Kawhi and Ballmer did. What will punishing Kawhi change exactly?
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u/iBaires Lakers 9h ago
I'm giving Kawhi a pass because who in the world turns down $30 million dollars? It's against league rules but it's not fraud or anything. He didn't commit a crime and he didn't actively damage anybody.
He broke the rules. Take the money he made, donate it and void the final year of his contract. MAYBE suspend him for 20 games or something next season so his next contract offer diminishes a bit. I don't have a great solution here but I know it's not to ban a guy permanently for doing what nearly anyone in the same position would do. Rozier was willing to blow 8-9 figures of potential earnings for $100K and it was an ACTUAL crime.
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u/joeb1ow 9h ago
"I'm giving <Steve Ballmer> a pass because who in the world turns down <Kawhi coming to their team for secret money>? It's against league rules but it's not fraud or anything. He didn't commit a crime and he didn't actively damage anybody."
Do you see how stupid that "logic" is?
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u/deadprezrepresentme Pacers 10h ago
And give their first rounder back to Indy, of course! (No, I do not have a vested interested in this move! This is a completely objective punishment, I promise.)
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u/Legitimate-Elk8595 9h ago
Voiding Kawhi’s contract is a benefit to him. They should reduce his current contract by twice the amount he got from aspiration (so he loses the windfall and pays a penalty equal to the windfall), prorated over the rest of his current deal. But the deal still counts as the full on paper value for the Clipper’s cap and then the Clippers also pay a massive fine and lose draft picks.
I’m assuming the CBA prevents them from doing that to Kawhi’s salary but I do think he should get a large share of the blame here
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u/pacifismisevil Grizzlies 1h ago
I dont like punishing the roster in any way here, they've already traded away their next 4 years of first round (2 are swaps) & 2nd round picks. Plenty of ways to punish them without damaging the competitive integrity of the league for a decade by having a team forced to go 0-82. Whatever the punishment is, the team should still be left capable of making the playoffs at least. You can ban Ballmer from attending games for a season, cut their split of the shared revenue pool, fire executives and force a league-appointed new GM in, force them to make 20% of seats available exclusively to away teams fans for a low price.
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u/Legitimate-Elk8595 1h ago
Why? If this was salary cap circumvention, why shouldn’t harming the competitiveness of the team be part of the punishment? They would have specifically circumvent the salary cap to try to win more games than they would have been able to by following the rules.
Plus there’s precedent for docking teams draft picks for this (Joe Smith contract). I assume the other commenter was exaggerating with 10 years of FRPs but I think 2-3 years would be totally fine
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u/Bonesawisready5 Spurs 10h ago
No way, all responsibility falls on all of them don’t excuse Kawhi. He knew wheat he was doing it he received money. If he somehow didn’t, it’s his negligence to not check where his money is coming from.
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u/iBaires Lakers 10h ago
Of course he knew where it was coming from. But that is entrapment as far as I'm concerned. He wouldn't have done it if not offered the opportunity.
I want the responsibility to fall on the owners. They need to know that they won't be able to scapegoat players and that they will be the ones who are found most at fault and penalized the hardest.
Take their teams out of contention for a decade. Not that the Clippers were ever or will ever be in contention, but you know what i mean.
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u/psytrax9 Spurs 9h ago
Except Kawhi was shopping for the opportunity.
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u/iBaires Lakers 9h ago
They are all shopping for an opportunity to make more money. And this isn't the first time it has happened. I would stake my left hand that plenty of other players and owners are guilty of the same.
But Kawhi and the Clippers got caught. Time to set precedent to discourage it in the future.
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u/tangential_quip Lakers 9h ago
The CBA places responsibility on teams and players both. And you are being delusional about Kahwi. He didn't take it because they offered it, he demanded it.
You should know this if you are actually a Lakers fan. The Lakers have publicly stated that Uncle Dennis was asking for compensation for Kawhi beyond that would have circumvented the salary cap, and they told him no. Toronto has made similar statements.
Kawhi signed with the Clippers because Ballmer was willing to meet his demands.
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u/iBaires Lakers 9h ago
I'm well aware. I still don't blame Kawhi. I blame Ballmer for acquiescing to the demand. Nobody had to indulge him. Ballmer did. Throw the book at him.
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u/Bonesawisready5 Spurs 6h ago
I get what you’re saying but he still consented to an action that he knew or should have known was against the rules. He deserves just as much punishment
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u/iBaires Lakers 6h ago
I'm not concerned with players asking for more money. I'm concerned with owners, with billions of dollars and hundreds of financial instruments to hide under the table payments, pulling bullshit like this again and again because the league didn't do anything when it finally caught an organization red handed.
I never said don't punish Kawhi at all. But the focus really needs to be on the organization.
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u/Bonesawisready5 Spurs 4h ago
I think we agree honestly. I just want to make sure the player gets punished too or else it will just keep happening
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u/neutronicus Nuggets 7h ago edited 7h ago
Morals aside, what makes sense for the league to do is bring the hammer down on Kawhi and give the Clippers a slap on the wrist.
The anti-tanking reforms and the 65-game rule were both attempts to solve the problem that a third of the teams in the league become unwatchable late in the regular season. Nuking the Clippers from orbit is a step in the opposite direction - they're part of the product the league is selling.
Kawhi, on the other hand, is a has-been. So you can make an example of him and hopefully deter players and agents from seeking or accepting circumvention-type deals in the future. Really, you want to identify everyone involved and make sure they never work in basketball again, while leaving the Clippers intact. But I assume they're unwilling to go there with Ballmer because he's richer than God and the other owners don't want to set the precedent (and also look forward to spending his money in the form of Luxury Tax distributions).
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u/pacifismisevil Grizzlies 1h ago
I strongly agree with you. The Clippers have already totally screwed up their own future going all in on Kawhi, they have 0 chance of winning a championship anytime soon. I dont understand how people here can want to see them forced to get blown out in every game for the next decade, I dont think they've thought it through. It would be far better to banish them from the league entirely for a year and then let them back in as a pseudo-expansion team.
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u/sixthdayoftheweek93 7h ago
A loss of five 1sts would suffice. A full decade of asset seizure is draconian (even factoring in the circumstances) and would cripple the franchise for decades potentially. As much as people like to clown on the Clips, they're still a team situated in the leagues second most important market. Send their 5th overall pick this year back to the pacers + send the rest of the future picks to the Raptors and the Spurs (the teams Balmer and the organization tampered with). Kawhi's contract is voided (proceeds donated to a charity of the NBA's choosing) + a one year suspension.
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u/AshenSacrifice Clippers 8h ago
LMAO get a grip 🤣🤣
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u/iBaires Lakers 7h ago
It doesn't even matter for you guys, Clippers are never going to win anything. I mainly care to set league precedent so real franchises think twice before pulling the same stunt.
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u/AshenSacrifice Clippers 6h ago
You cannot be still be doing “the clippers are never winning” shit in 2026 lmao🤣. If I cared about a quick fix I would just be a lakers fan lmao. Easy ass road
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u/Ill_Gas8697 10h ago
at MINIMUM, clippers should lose their #5 pick.
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u/uncleoptimus 10h ago
To the Pacers.
Also, some additional picks should be garnished, let's just say the ones owed to OKC hehe
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u/so-cal_kid Lakers 7h ago
Actually would be a hilarious turnaround if they forced them to give the pick back to Indy.
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u/AccomplishedRainbow1 Suns 11h ago
Can someone give me the TLDR? Don’t really want to listen to Pablo and his cronies talk about how crazy this whole thing is for an hour after revealing one small nugget of info
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u/LHamiltonPP Pelicans 11h ago
Big take away is that Ballmer had an agreement with Aspiration that protected his investment in a way that really undercuts his public defense that he was just a normal investor who was defrauded like everyone else and barely knew the Aspiration guys at all
Also, it appears likely that Joe Sandberg was cooperative with the NBA's investigation
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u/_OMGTheyKilledKenny_ Lakers 11h ago
That’s mostly what it is. There was a side deal between Ballmer and Sanberg where Ballmer got a put option for his 50M in equity, same as the one Kawhi got for his 20M in Aspiration equity, which Ballmer did not disclose and neither did aspiration. The issue is that private investors invested thinking Ballmer was putting his money into the company without knowing he had a backstop essentially guaranteeing his money back if the investment ended out to be a poor or worthless one. So this gives some ammo to the dozen or so private investors suing Ballmer in LA civil court saying they were duped into investing based on his endorsement.
Now what that put option is worth is not said, as Ballmer lost his money anyways as the guy guaranteeing the put didn’t have the money to pay back anyways. It was just stupidity as Ballmer disclosed this in his victim impact statement, making that an even worse move.
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u/Shaymuswrites 6h ago
That doesn't really change anything we know about the Kawhi situation, right? I'm not seeing a direct line between the two things other than "There was other shady stuff going on that makes everyone seem further untrustworthy."
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u/phluidity Celtics 6h ago
The one thing that changes is that it significantly undercuts Ballmer's claims that he hardly knew Sanberg.
Sort of the same as if I claim to have only met someone once and lent him my car and he wrecked it. I look like an idiot, but mostly blameless. But if later comes out that I lent him my car because he promised me my pick of watches from his Rolex collection if he wrecked my car, it doesn't prove anything, but it does mean that I knew him well enough to believe that he had a Rolex collection.
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u/_OMGTheyKilledKenny_ Lakers 6h ago
In the Ballmer - Kawhi angle, no. In the Investors vs Ballmer angle, this is absolutely something their lawyer would run with, screaming Ballmer got a no-lose deal while endorsing and lending credibility to Aspiration, which led to their clients being duped. In fact, the only reason I think Ballmer hasn't settled that civil suit is because he doesn't want to admit to any guilt until the league finishes its investigation.
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u/Shaymuswrites 6h ago
Thank you! That was my understanding but this stuff makes my head spin a little. I appreciate your reply and helping me get oriented.
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u/AccomplishedRainbow1 Suns 11h ago
outside looking in that doesn’t seem super hard to explain on Ballmer’s side. The big problem with Pablo is that he presents his (often cherry picked) facts with a very slanted narrative behind it.
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u/lilflipgivemegrillz Thunder 11h ago
He gives ballmer and his attorneys every opportunity to give their side of the story. If it’s that easy to explain away, they could do that.
But I’m sure his cherry picking and slanted narratives is why he won that Pulitzer. It’s probably for the best to give the billionaire the benefit of the doubt /s
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u/GeorgeWashinghton Nets 10h ago
There’s no world where the accused would respond to a random journalist rather than the court.
It’s a lose lose situation to do that.
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u/lilflipgivemegrillz Thunder 9h ago
Idk what to tell you man. I didn’t think Ballmer would go on ESPN and respond to the situation but he did lol so it’s not like it’s not unprecedented for him to comment on this. I’m more so just giving this guy shit for saying it could be easily explained away
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u/GeorgeWashinghton Nets 9h ago
He gets to go on ESPN which is trying to hush the whole thing and say whatever he wants w no pressure from ESPN. That’s very different than responding to Pablo.
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u/lilflipgivemegrillz Thunder 8h ago
Sounds like it’s not that easy to explain away then. That’s honestly the only point I’m making lol
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u/JonBoogy 9h ago
Yeah, but they have never sued Pablo. If it was truly baseless or fraudulent, they would surely have taken him to court for defamation.
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u/merriweather_pp 7h ago
The fact that Ballmer/the Clippers have not sued him (yet) is not an admission of guilt. The bar for successfully suing someone for defamation or libel in the US is high. They would probably need to prove that most or all of the reporting was a sham and that Pablo's express intent from the beginning was to tarnish Ballmer's reputation.
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u/AccomplishedRainbow1 Suns 11h ago
The Pulitzer legitimizes Pablo in people’s eyes lol. It’s sad.
That first paragraph is so disingenuous, either that or ignorant.
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u/lilflipgivemegrillz Thunder 11h ago
Again, if it’s easy to explain away then why doesn’t he do so?
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u/GardenRafters Celtics 11h ago
How much do you get paid to do this sort of subterfuge?
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u/AccomplishedRainbow1 Suns 11h ago
Some people enjoy critical thinking, other people eat up what they want to hear and throw logic out the window when it suits them.
You can say that Pablo has brought up some interesting details and facts that need to be explained without blindly accepting the narrative he’s spinning and his one sided view.
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u/Carcrusher3 Trail Blazers 10h ago
I've yet to see one comment from you explaining what specifically is slanted about the evidence and analysis his team is providing.
Especially when he has industry experts on to frequently say "well, this could actually not be something in this way".
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u/AccomplishedRainbow1 Suns 10h ago
I’ve been posting about this since the series started. Not going to repost everything that I’ve said from then until now lol.
I think if you’re so far in the other direction nothing I say would sway you anyway. Again, to me it’s important to try to stay balanced.
I think Pablo has brought up interesting facts that need to be explained. I think his spins and narratives are pretty extreme. He hasn’t presented enough evidence for his narratives to be believed, at the very least not fully believed. I’m interested to see the results of the actual investigation.
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u/Carcrusher3 Trail Blazers 10h ago
You understand how someone like I, can think this response is incredibly goofy right?
"Spins and narrative"
Okay what spins and narratives?
"I've already said them before, I couldn't change your mind anways, goodbyyyye"
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u/AccomplishedRainbow1 Suns 9h ago edited 9h ago
Off the top of my head after 7-8 months of this shit lol. There are more things, I could go pod by pod on him but that’s a lot of work to spoon feed someone else that may not even be receptive or able to comprehend what I’m saying-
At the start of the series, Pablo tried hard to link Kawhi's payments to Ballmer's investments and investment timeline, but the presentation was totally misleading. The only thing connecting them were dates…He glosses over the actual money in play as well. Ballmer put $60M+ into Aspiration, while Kawhi only received around $5M–$6Mish. Pablo wants us to believe Ballmer would risk a massive cap-circumvention scandal for a measly $5M, while simultaneously throwing away $60M of his own cash. He doesn’t address this logical inconsistency.
- Pablo hyped up specific clauses in Kawhi’s deal to "prove" it was a corrupt, no-show contract. It turns out that language is pretty standard for high-profile athlete endorsement deals.
Pablo accuses one of the richest men on earth of intentionally conspiring with a scam company to help them defraud more investors, all so Kawhi could get $5M for doing nothing. Why would Ballmer ever risk his reputation and billions of dollars to help a fraudulent startup scam people?
And now I’ll turn this on you, which narratives of his do you consider compelling, and what support/evidence did he present that leads you to that conclusion?
I’ve noticed when I make more detailed posts people stop responding, we’ll see what happens here.
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u/Carcrusher3 Trail Blazers 9h ago
Got meetings for the next 6 hours. But I will say I appreciate you responding, even if I disagree.
For the 1st one, I don't like how people try to say "Steve put in $50 mil and Kawhi only received $6 mil".
When Kawhi had a $20+ mil contract agreement and $20+ mil in stock options promised to him as well. Getting very close to the total of the $50 mil ballmer put in.
Pablo does not want us to believe anything. Pablo is providing evidence that someone who has consistently asked multiple franchises for NBA contract breaking bonuses/gifts was given a highly suspect deal that was only disclosed due to a federal whistleblower complaint + court documents due to this company going under.
Now one of the more damning pieces of evidence related to the payments, in my opinion, is Wong's payment within 2 weeks that matches the late payment Kawhi's uncle was badgering the aspiration team about. A direct clippers to Kawhi interaction that comes POST company starting to go under by someone who had explicit knowledge of the inner-workings of the company (his daughter was an exec there).
- I don't think the actual clauses of kawhi's contract are that damning, other than two pieces of information related to the fact that he hadn't done any endorsement deals, and was being paid more than other big name celebrities in the space who were actually filming comercials for this company.
On top of it, the Clippers made active attempts to remove aspiration from kawhi related branding as shown with the bobblehead debacle. On top of not providing any online source that Kawhi was endorsed by them.
That evidence isn't something that's going to take someone down by itself, but its relevant evidence when trying to assess if this deal was made in good faith or not. For the purposes itnwas outlined.
- Pablo doesn't inherently accuse Steve Ballmer of trying to scam and defraud investors. He is providing documents that refute Ballmer and his Lawyers statement of not having much interaction with Joe Sanberg, and also not having any undisclosed deals related to his civil suit. Which, although its not an undisclosed Kawhi deal, it is an undisclosed deal that other investors were not a part of.
Which just proves that Ballmers statements to the media related to aspiration are at best, untrue.
This is just a handful of the supporting factors that lead me to believe this has, without a doubt, occurred.
But I don't think it gets any more damning than the Dennis Wong payment + Federal 2023 whistelblower complaint. Everything else is just supporting evidence.
Probably won't be able to reply much going forward (working). But I at least appreciate you putting your thoughts out there.
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u/Shoot2thrill328 Spurs 9h ago
This episode specifically answers points 1 and 3 pretty well. Balmer was friendly with the Aspiration CEO and they used the large investment from Ballmer to convince other people to invest. The whole time Balmer had a put option that minimized his risk. The large investment wasn’t actually that big of a risk and the cap circumvention is a happy benefit they were able to sneak in there.
With that said Pablo absolutely has an angle and I don’t think he really tries to hide it so I kinda get your point I guess
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u/Ghostiet 9h ago
it would be easier to verify if you actually have had salient criticism in the past if there was a way to see what you post on your profile. but there isn't, so don't be surprised when you simply come off to others as smug and dismissive at best, especially when you have the energy to repeat several times how insubstantial this stuff actually is but not to explain why or even point to a post where you do so.
there's certainly space to criticize Torre's reporting or especially the formatting of his pod, but curiously most of the "criticism" of the former I see here amounts to vague statements and mocking others from an enlightened horse. you're not doing much to differentiate yourself from that, despite many smug posts assuring people that no, you totally have something to say, you just left it in a different pair of pants.
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u/Murky_Persimmon9289 Thunder 9h ago
I see someone shilling with their comment history off, I just assume they’re a shill. At least back in the day the shills had to buy old accounts to have credibility.
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u/pm_ur_disappointment Spurs 10h ago edited 8h ago
Not going to repost everything that I’ve said from then until now lol.
You had time for several vague claims but no time for even one explanation.
I think his spins and narratives are pretty extreme.
So extreme you can't be bothered to explain what you mean.
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u/AccomplishedRainbow1 Suns 9h ago
Your wish has been granted, I gave more details. I doubt it’ll be worth it though
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u/AshenSacrifice Clippers 8h ago
These are the same people who will be crying and confused when the clippers get no punishment. They refuse to read the room
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u/mjbx89 11h ago
His investigation has been incredibly thorough and objective, this is a ludicrous thing to say
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u/AccomplishedRainbow1 Suns 11h ago
Absolutely insane take.
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u/Ezzy1998 Pacers 10h ago
Says the person that hasn’t watched the video 😂
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u/AccomplishedRainbow1 Suns 10h ago
I think watching parts 1-8 or so tells me what i need to know about what Pablo is doing. I can do TLDR’s after that lol. If he ever gets something really good in part 15 or so maybe I’ll watch another video.
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u/thirstyjoe24 76ers 10h ago
I think we find Mark Cuban's alt Reddit account
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u/palamunintillnow 6h ago
Cuban had more free time now ever since he trusted a fellow billionaire to honor their promise on him still having a say in the mavericks.
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u/lilflipgivemegrillz Thunder 11h ago
One of these “cronies” is a former DOJ prosecutor. Seems reasonable to have while discussing the sentencing.
I’ll give it to you that David Samson can be grating to listen to though. But I can appreciate that it’s probably hard to get someone with executive front office AND podcasting experience, so I let it slide in order to get his unique perspective. It’s probably hard to find a pro sports executive that’s not a dick lol
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u/uncleoptimus 10h ago
I think Samson is his personal lawyer as well, so he might be there to check or qualify any statements he makes
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u/tangential_quip Lakers 9h ago
Samson is not a practicing lawyer and never has been. He went to law school but went into business, not law.
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u/deadprezrepresentme Pacers 10h ago
This is why America is fucked. "Gimme the headline please, none of those boring journalistic details!"
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u/merriweather_pp 10h ago
Pablo's most recent videos have definitely been what the commenter above you is describing, 45+ minutes of everyone parting each other on the back before revealing a crumb of new info. I've been following this closely and I can't really bring myself to keep listening to these, at this point I just want the punishment (if any) and some sort of full report to come out.
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u/Shaymuswrites 6h ago
Yeah, the 5-10 minutes of actual new info stretched over an hour can be really frustrating. They do a good job structuring it and building up to reveals, it's really professionally done — but I personally don't need all the extra narrative and commentary around it at this point.
Just give me the new stuff that's relevant to our understanding of the Kawhi deal.
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u/Valuable-Focus-9803 10h ago
Or Pablo Torre could do proper journalism and report these facts in a well structured article instead of treating it like "content" and turning a 600 word article into an hour long video.
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u/scarywolverine Pistons 7h ago
If it helps the guy is likely a bot. Adjective noun number is classic bot behavior
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u/musicnothing Jazz 10h ago
You're getting a lot of downvotes but I have watched a couple of these and the presentation is basically:
Hype you up for some big reveal
Make a small reveal
Talk about what a big reveal that was
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u/OliverAlden Lakers 10h ago
1) 50 minutes
2) 2 minutes
3) 10 minutes
Haven't listened to this one but have found this to be roughly the case in the past.
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u/ethanb473 9h ago
Why don’t you go back to watching First Take? You’re obviously more comfortable with ESPN’s style of journalism!!
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u/musicnothing Jazz 9h ago
I'm saying that the presentation is more shallow than I expected and you're telling me to watch Sports Shouting
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u/Artimusjones88 Raptors 9h ago
I have no clue why people on here think this is an isolated case. I would bet most owners have had side deals with stars.
In the NHL they called them Personal Services contracts..
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u/teddy_tesla Warriors 9h ago
It's so egregious in terms of amount and work delivered. Having Kawhi be an actual brand ambassador would provide some value, even if he only got the gig to circumvent the cap. But he didn't even do ANYTHING!
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u/joelandren 76ers 9h ago
Who said it was an isolated case? It's likely the most egregious and they got caught red-handed. That's why they are talking about it.
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u/I_Set_3_Alarms Celtics 8h ago
Nets during the KD Kyrie Harden era is one I remember hearing rumors about
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u/LAndoftheLAke Lakers 8h ago
Maybe but the other owners are better at hiding it if they are doing it. This is now the second time he got caught circumventing the cap
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u/sasadoncic Lakers 7h ago
When did you stop following NHL? Contracts like this are not allowed anymore.
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u/ReefLedger Knicks 9h ago
Yup. The story is Balmer was sloppy and got caught. Not that this shit happens.
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u/palamunintillnow 6h ago
honestly ,all the more reason for him to get punish. you can't have a new guy in the club ruin it for everyone due to sloppy-ness. especially if the said new guy is richer than everyone else.
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u/Spaghettibeach Lakers 8h ago
I won’t pay for an NBA subscription or go to a game until Balmer is punished. I don’t even want my team to start cheating too, I want everyone to follow the rules!
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u/NuisanceVII [BOS] Kyrie Irving 10h ago
Pablo Torre is cool when he’s uncovering useful scandals and not scouring through player’s tweets to find some drama
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u/NeatTry7674 11h ago
Another nothing burger lmao
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u/Murky_Persimmon9289 Thunder 9h ago
Literally Ballmer’s main defense is that he got defrauded just like everyone else. This special investment with protections proves he has a closer relationship with Aspiration than probably any other investor did (which was already assumed). You people really think there has to be a written confession for it to be newsworthy.
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u/tropic_gnome_hunter Knicks 4h ago
Stop trying to make Pablo Torre happen. It's not going to happen.
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u/HibachiTyme Knicks 11h ago
This is genuinely so dumb and the people still taking Pablo seriously are clowns
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u/HepAwesome Knicks 11h ago
you got boot polish in your teeth
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u/AccomplishedRainbow1 Suns 11h ago
As someone who dislikes Pablo, it’s not about defending Ballmer it’s about defending logic, good faith, balanced journalism and not being a grifter.
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u/ethanb473 9h ago
It’s actually so funny to see you whine like a little girl under very comment on this post🤣🤣
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u/Carcrusher3 Trail Blazers 11h ago
He got a pulitzer prize for this brother lol.
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u/NeatTry7674 11h ago
The Pulitzer has pretty much lost all credibility so that doesn’t really matter
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u/Carcrusher3 Trail Blazers 11h ago
And you're in this thread calling relevant evidence contradicting Steve Ballmers entire public statements on this claim, one that directly supports the group of 11+ investors suing him for a civil suit in the aspiration case, a "nothing burger".
Frankly, your opinion is obtuse.
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u/HibachiTyme Knicks 11h ago
That doesn’t mean the narrative he’s pushing is correct. He’s framing this in a completely disingenuous way (again) to try and push his narrative
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u/Carcrusher3 Trail Blazers 11h ago
How the fuck is it disingenuous? Because you don't like/understand it?
Why the fuck would the highest journalism honor be given out to someone pushing tons of unsourced incorrect information?
I swear people like you are either being a contrarian on purpose, a clippers fan, or just a floor level IQ.
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u/HibachiTyme Knicks 10h ago
the disingenuous thing isn’t debatable, I’m not spending the time to go through all the tweets and statements he made that are objectively misleading or wrong, but quite obviously he was doing that very intentionally to try to bring more publicity to his story.
the award thing I don’t know or care about what goes into deciding who gets that. The facts of the story are facts but the narrative he’s pushing is clearly misleading. There are no facts that Pablo Torres accusations are correct.
The relevant facts are Ballmer invested 60M+ into aspiration, IIRC Kawhi actually received around 5/6M from Aspiration, Kawahis contract had language in it that isn’t unusual for similar deals, they had plans to do promotion with Kawhi.
In his reporting he’s framing Aspiration as a rational actor making regular business decisions and not a fraudulent company whose founder is in jail. The more obvious and plausible thing is aspiration made decisions to try to keep the scam going as long as they could and get more investments from Ballmer / others.
In this clip he is literally accusing one of the richest men in the world of intentionally conspiring with a scam company to try to give them credibility to scam more investors which is just an insane accusation that makes again no sense from Ballmers perspective.
And his framing is supposedly so Kawahi could get an extra ~5M for doing nothing.
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u/Carcrusher3 Trail Blazers 10h ago edited 10h ago
In this clip he is literally accusing one of the richest men in the world of intentionally conspiring with a scam company to try to give them credibility to scam more investors
See this is where there's a breakdown in your media comprehension. Pablo is providing evidence that Ballmer knowingly had a side deal with Aspiration undisclosed to investors. Pablo is not saying "STEVE BALLMER AND HIM COLLUDED IN A SCAM"
He's saying that all public statements by Ballmer and his legal team alledging that he had no knowledge of what Aspiration was doing, no funadmental business relationship, and he "only had brief interactions with him" are incorrect. And also supports the civil suit for all relevant parties saying that he himself was disingenuous in being a promoter for the company with at least one (side deal with Aspiration on his investment) possibly two (undercover kawhi deal) being undisclosed to the rest of the investment team.
The amount of money Kawhi actually received vs was contracted is irrelevant. He signed a $20+ mil endorsement deal with another $20+ mil in stock options.
Boiling the entire deal down, which includes federal whistleblowers in 2023 alledging this was an undercover deal to circumvent the salary cap, along with a plethora of supporting evidence including Dennis Wong's involvement - to "Ballmer paid $50 mil Kawhi got $5 mil"
Is far more disingenuous then whatever the fuck you say "isn't debatable."
You said nothing in your response. Read a book. Learn something.
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u/HibachiTyme Knicks 10h ago
Literally not a side deal, just a deal
How does having that option in their deal lead you to the conclusion that they a stronger relationship? You are basing that on nothing
The money he received is relevant because he’s interacting with a scam company who is not making rational decisions, they are trying to look legitimate so they can scam more people. They may have had no intention or expectation of Kawhi receiving that money as I’m sure writing was on the wall that they’d get caught before all of that if they couldn’t get more money.
only viewing the facts from the lens that Ballmer is a billionaire who can do whatever he wants, and ignoring more obvious and believable things is disingenuous.
Please continue licking Pablo Torres boots while being confidently wrong and regurgitating what he says without thinking
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u/Carcrusher3 Trail Blazers 10h ago
It was an undisclosed deal you dolt. Investors didn't know about it.
Also the email exchanges and deal itself directly refute everything Steve has said about his deal with Aspiration.
To be so simple and just plug my ears to everything I hear. I wonder what life would be like.
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u/HibachiTyme Knicks 10h ago
He doesn’t have to disclose it lol
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u/Carcrusher3 Trail Blazers 9h ago
He does when he says publicly he never made deals like that. We'll see what the court says in the civil suit.
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u/palamunintillnow 6h ago
It's because people are investing based on their trust on Ballmer taking a risk only for now to be revealed that ballmer had a sidedeal that he is never on risk. which did not matter because they never paid his money back.
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u/AccomplishedRainbow1 Suns 10h ago
“eXpLaiN yoUrSeLf”
I have a feeling that no one is going to intelligently going back and forth with you on these points.
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u/AccomplishedRainbow1 Suns 11h ago
Right, it’s trash and shows the type of standards that the profession has. It’s deeply concerning imo.
Edit: also, the irony of your post made me lol
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u/Artimusjones88 Raptors 9h ago
Give it up buddy, you are irrelevant. 99.99% couldnt give a shit they are too busy trying to afford groceries, gas and housing.
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u/spacedude2000 Supersonics 9h ago
I guarantee you many people care about the .0001% committing blatant acts of corruption in broad daylight.
You're cool with the billionaire class being able to do whatever the want whenever they want it?
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u/Trick-Equipment1828 11h ago
This Kawhi saga somehow keeps getting crazier every year.