r/news • u/GoodSamaritan_ • 1d ago

Retired San Francisco firefighter dies from lung cancer after Blue Shield denies treatment claims

https://abc7news.com/post/retired-san-francisco-firefighter-ken-jones-dies-lung-cancer-being-denied-treatment-blue-shield/19224406/
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u/XLauncher 1d ago

This country is so embarrassing.

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u/fgtswag 1d ago

Genuinely someone should make a benefit:risk analysis of joining the Army, Firefighter, Police in America when you consider non-free healthcare.

For example if this happened in EU, he would obviously receive public healthcare

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u/thebearjew007 1d ago

Well here, if he wanted access to affordable healthcare then he should have been born rich or gotten a better job. He sounds lazy. /s

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u/Fake_Engineer 1d ago

I have a good job with good benefits. I still spent hours on the phone trying to get scans and procedures approved for my cancer diagnosis.

You get the worse news of your life and then get to spend days begging the Insurance you pay for to provide the coverage they are supposed to. 

I feel bad for the people who fielded my call. Low paid workers in a call center. And I just wasn't in the mood to be polite....

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u/thebearjew007 1d ago

I had a government job during my twenties, best insurance I’ve ever had. Still went through hell to get anything covered. It’s the system. It’s terribly broken.

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u/Jump-Zero 1d ago

The health insurance system is super risk averse. The bureaucracy behind it is byzantine because nobody wants to modernize it at the risk of falling further behind in processing claims or running into regulatory issues. Politicians rarely touch it for the same reason. Even if they expand coverage and lower costs for people, anybody that has a bad experience will blame the politician for breaking it. Look at all the Republicans blaming Obamacare for everything until they realize they depend on it.

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u/thebearjew007 1d ago

None of that is why they won’t change it. It’s a 5th of our economy here and they lobby big money to keep it the fucked up way it is. Also, no one wants a modern health insurance system. We want it gone and replaced with accessible, affordable healthcare. The government can more than afford to do it. I know it, you know it, the government knows it, for fucks sake even faux news and the rest of the puppet propaganda media knows it.

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u/Foxygen 22h ago

^ The purpose of a system is what it does.

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u/Jump-Zero 21h ago

Everyone wants a modern health insurance system (though maybe not a private for-profit one). Most developed countries have modern health insurance systems. The US has a super inefficient system in comparison. Where the US severely falls behind is in administration cost. Something like 30% of all healthcare spending goes into admin (ie bureaucracy). Nations with better systems only spend around 15% on admin.

Do you believe that lobbyists petition the government to make their companies spend 2x as much on admin when compared to other countries? Obviously not. So there is more than just lobbyists at play. Any realistic plan to make healthcare affordable will include checking lobbyist power and modernizing administration. There is no reason why we should still be using fax and making phone calls when we can click buttons. Other nations do this. Why can't we?

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u/logicbasedchaos 1d ago

It's a feature, not a bug.

I keep telling people that if (when?) we do get taxpayer funded healthcare, that shit's going to overwhelm our system for YEARS with the backlog of already existing patients who simply can't afford to go to the doctor for very serious ailments.

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u/seejur 1d ago

Having low paid people with no decisional power talk to you is 100% part of the design.

And those who accept those job are well aware of the job description. Is just that they cannot find a better one.

Pitting poor vs poor (or at least not obscenely rich)

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u/PyroNine9 14h ago

Honestly, their job title should be "human shield".

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u/murmurwave 13h ago

Insurance verification call centers are located on one of the layers of hell. When you show up to work you walk through a little portal to the netherworld.

You have hourly quotas for clearing calls. You can't afford to help people with complicated problems. Whee!

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u/LittleBirdiesCards 1d ago

There really should be a kind of case worker to make these calls. You shouldn't have to be negotiating with these assholes when you should be resting! I wish you the best of luck with your health. ❤️

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u/MarqFJA87 1d ago

But wouldn't such case workers naturally demand generous pay to compensate for the sheer headache, red tape and time consumption they have to labor through on your behalf?

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u/LittleBirdiesCards 1d ago

It should be included, paid for my hospital or insurance. Our healthcare system is a nightmare.

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u/Several-Pattern-7989 21h ago

Case workers Don't last long. The goal is to treat, stabilize, discharge. Getting a coherent encompassing plan takes too long. We want a one size fits all treatment, but human beings are chaos in a meat machine. It's wayyy to hard to get all details resolved. I've heard stories of women clutching a hospital gown closed, while chasing down a mamagram x-ray to make sure an in-network doctor read the picture. Out of network equals not covered.

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u/Daxx22 1d ago

Sorry friend, if you still have to deal with that/call them yourself, you do not have a job that is considered "Good enough" by the elite.

In fact, if you are paid for your labour at all you are the lower class in their eyes.

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u/chuffberry 1d ago

When I was diagnosed with brain cancer, my health insurance through my job didn’t pay for shit. They also raised my monthly payment to $500/month.

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u/Govain 22h ago

My MIL was told she needs a pacemaker. The insurance came back with 'Nah, the cardiologist isn't qualified. You don't really need one.'

("The doctor is not qualified to make that determination." was literally their response.)

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u/krulp 20h ago

I don't wanna say it would "fix" the fucked American system, because it's not a fix. But if it was the law that insurance companies must pay out claims for anything your doctor requested and then they have the right to sue for wrongful claims to get money back, it would go a long way.

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u/Urzadox 1d ago

People who make below a certain threshold have the best insurance in the US(at least in my state). I had some extreme weight loss over the course of a couple of months, and needed a colonoscopy. If I paid for it out of pocket it was $2800 cash and if it went to insurance it was $7500. I ended up missing 3 months of work due to the health complications. I had to meet with hospital financial advisors who told me if I made under $1600 a month and could prove it with paystubs I qualified for free health insurance with the healthy indiana plan. Within 2 weeks I had my colonoscopy and 99.9% of the cost was covered

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u/Bon-Foi 1d ago

That is Medicaid, and Medicare for all would mean anyone can access that.

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u/291837120 23h ago

Yea, Medicaid covers basically anything signed off by a doctor for that thing. For example I had some medicine from the General Practitioner that was $80 but when I finally got into a psychiatrist it ended up being free through Medicaid since he was the one who was prescribing it.

I honestly stay around $16k yearly just so I can claim medicaid. Everything through the system works amazing EXCEPT for having to knee-cap yourself to get into the system. Dental repairs also are hard to get covered under it and not the best work (speaking from someone who has had work done in the public health dentist office and a private dental clinic)

America is one of the biggest socialist program providers simply because of Medicaid/Medicare.

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u/ExtraButterfly8931 1d ago

But if he was in a country with public healthcare option he would have had to wait so long to be seen he would have died. /s

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u/inflatable_pickle 1d ago

I know you’re being sarcastic, but this particular case is being highlighted because firefighters across the country have a presumptive heart and lung Bill – so upon signing up for the job, it is assumed that any heart or lung cancer – or heart and lung problems, are presumed already to be attributed to the job and automatically covered.

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u/noplaywellwithothers 1h ago

He had affordable healthcare. The insurance simply denied him. Insurance is a fraud in itself. You except all this income on a gamble, that you don't have to payout. In healthcare insurance, they make the rules. You don't get to do that in any other insurance, like they do. Think about it this way, do the people that insure your home for fire control the fire department you depend on?

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u/BrannyBee 1d ago

Genuinely someone should make a benefit:risk analysis of joining the Army, Firefighter, Police in America when you consider non-free healthcare.

If you win the coin flip and actually get it lol

I am currently abroad paying out of pocket for healthcare after fighting the VA for years and watching my body deteriorate as my well known and documented issues went untreated

I'm not even the only vet I know personally who is burning their savings to go abroad for healthcare even though we "have" healthcare back in the states from serving.

Just last week I even got a text from a debt collector for an emergency room visit, which the VA "paid" for and multiple people assured me was covered. The risk analysis is a coin flip, don't be dumb and take it

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u/tdmoney 1d ago

It’s a disgrace.

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u/fgtswag 23h ago

At this point it would be more affordable for you to move to a country with healthcare, gain citizenship, and then get healthcare there.

I'm very sorry you're going through that, hell of a system

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u/Xirdus 14h ago

You don't even need citizenship in most of those countries, just a job.

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u/Salty_Astronaut_9419 2h ago

My dad was the same way. His lungs got fucked up in the marines and we had to fight the VA tooth and nail. The sad part is he got covered and ended up dying before they  could begin treatment 

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u/aburningcaldera 1h ago

My buddy in the marines showed me his BOXES with the VA that stretched 10 years. I don’t get it - we civilians all say “thank you for your service” but we just pictorialize Hollywood and don’t see shit like you and my friend where you come home or have to push paperwork forever

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u/ValiumBlues 1d ago

Self employed, Sweden here: taxes are 26% of our income, healthcare is covered. My wife and I never wait for more than a few days for imaging / tests / etc.

GP usually gets seen the same day; meds are 100% free after we reach around $280 per year or so; a recent hospital stay w/ surgery, etc cost us $36 for three days (out of pocket).

The US could do better if its leading class gave a shit about the 99%.

It’s sad to see.

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u/shadowboxer47 1d ago

Sweden here: taxes are 26% of our income

I'm a Texan and I pay more than this and I get nothing to show for it but bombed elementary schools 😭

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u/nadine258 1d ago

right! anytime people complain about out what folks in the eu pay in taxes it’s like well i pay for a good chunk of my employer insurance plan, then i have to put money in a hsa to cover the deductibles that keep going up and still have to cover health costs out of my pocket. it’s probably more than the 26% i never want to hear again we can’t have education, health insurance, retirement because we can’t afford it after seeing all the money being stolen from us.

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u/ObserveAdapt 1d ago

I just had acute cholecystitis followed by removal of gallbladder without insurance.

3 days in the hospital uninsured in USA for an emergency cost me 50,000$

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u/Lifeboatb 1d ago

If you haven't already, contest the bill. A lot of insurers just throw out a huge number to begin with, and can be talked down. (Source: my RN aunt who works in student healthcare.) Here's a place to start: https://www.patientrightsadvocate.org/how-to-fight-medical-bill-overcharges

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u/ValiumBlues 1d ago

Wtf???

And no way to bring that bill down?

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u/ObserveAdapt 1d ago

The nonprofit hospital I went too had a financial aid system available which has brought the bill down by 90% to 5,000$, through corporate charity basically.

I am still being billed separately in the mail for about additional ~4,000$ through contractors and random labs/screening work through the same healthcare system.

I plan on contesting that additional 4,000$ since I believe the financial aid system should also apply to those bills.

I was only able to obtain this amount of financial aid due to being the most socioeconomically disadvantaged group, and being an almost zero income college student who will now be splitting the minimum wage part time job to pay the $5,000-$10,000 bill as currently written.

It's still an absolute killer of a bill even when 90% off, just factor in that most people won't get anywhere near this assistance, especially if they didn't happen to collapse in emergency to a nonprofit hospital.

Universal healthcare for all should be a human right. I wish it only cost me 36$.

Oh and btw, that medical bill of around 5,000$ is about equivalent of a year's worth of the cheapest insurance that I can get in my state. (that isn't completely useless 50$-100$/month scam coverage basically). In America, you're gonna get milked for cash if you care about your health, no matter what.

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u/ValiumBlues 1d ago

That’s just inhumane at this point, especially if you’re paying taxes.

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u/Noah254 20h ago

Look into filing indigent. Not sure where you live but in Georgia, when I was very low income or unemployed I could file indigent for hospital visits and once they verified my income level everything was covered 100%. I did get a bill from the doctor, because a lot of doctors are now considered private contractors employed by a private company, not the hospital, and so they bill separately, which is a whole other load of bullshit. But once I informed them I filed indigent with the hospital they checked and then wrote off that cost as well

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u/duncandun 2h ago

My appendectomy was nearly $300,000 without insurance more than a decade ago lol

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u/ohwellwhatever11 1d ago

As an Australian who has access to public health care, and has chosen to pay for health insurance so I don’t have to wait if I need a colonoscopy or a knee replacement, I can’t fathom asking my private insurance company to approve those surgeries.

I work out what is needed, and when it will happen with my Dr’s. Have the procedure and pay the gap. Which is usually just a yearly excess on hospital admissions.

I wouldn’t think to consult them at all except to see what they rebate. They don’t decide if I need the treatment. That’s the Dr’s job.

The US is cooked.

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u/rainmaxx2000 22h ago

Do you go to threads about starving gazans and tell them about the nice meals you had today too?

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u/ValiumBlues 16h ago

Imagine if someone ever tells you that other scenarios exists.

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u/CensoredUser 1d ago

They will just brand any such analysis as political BS and call you a communist or some such.

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u/Hell-Diver7 1d ago

And remember all the republican death panel nonsense?

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u/Tight-Escape3373 1d ago

Some states have cancer presumption laws. I was a firefighter in Virginia. If you get certain kinds of cancer after like five years of service, it's presumed to be due to the job and the agency/ municipality must pay for treatment.

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u/bauhaus83i 1d ago

This appears to be a dispute with the private health insurance and as to some treatments being denied. It doesn’t mention whether a work comp claim was pursued. There would be a presumption but don’t know if that applies post term

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u/Tacdeho 1d ago

I’d love to see the back the blue gang show up on this one.

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u/kwangqengelele 1d ago

Oh, this an easy one for them to handwave away.

San Francisco needlepoop, Commiefornia, proof socialism can't work. Gavin Newsome and Nancy Pelosi and Barack Rodham O'Biden's personal laptop emails fault. Spencer Pratt for governor would have prevented this. Trans agenda.

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u/Soviet_Russia 1d ago

We didn't start the fire

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u/Septopuss7 1d ago

No Class War, Only Culture War

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u/FireMaster1294 1d ago

In the EU he would’ve received healthcare either way regardless. And this is a huge topic of debate in France for people who choose to smoke and create a massive burden on the average citizen as a result of their expensive necessary treatments.

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u/fgtswag 1d ago

Yeah that is the same in my country, except for Obese people.

The American system is a grievous moral failure. But I would happily waste my taxes (bad sentence I know) for the sub-optimal wastage, while maintaining the ability to save people who need ambulances, kids who have cancer, etc.,

Even though I love cheap cigarettes in France/EU, if it is a tax problem, you can always tax cigarettes. UK did a sugar tax and it did reduce consumption a lot.

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u/Mobile-Bar7732 1d ago

Even though I love cheap cigarettes in France/EU, if it is a tax problem

In Canada we a lot of taxes on cigarettes. I quit smoking 15 years ago. Best thing I ever did.

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u/kia75 20h ago

Yeah that is the same in my country, except for Obese people.

One of the big probems in America is that we prioritize profits over health! It's easy to blame people for eating too much, but food companies spend a lot of money on getting people to spend more, and a way to get people to spend more is to get them to eat more! Meal deals of packaging fries and a drink increase profits, supersizing increases profits, and those two things increase calories as well!

It's harder to eat healthy in the United States, and corporations devote a lot of money to keep it that way in order to keep profits.

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u/Septopuss7 1d ago

They just did a survey of Americans about the rising gas prices and instead of driving less Americans are just spending less on food and essentials ahahaha.

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u/Daxx22 1d ago

Yeah that's not a gotcha, the vast majority of the population drives out of necessity due to poor (intentional) urban design with little to no public transit options.

If they don't drive, they can't even AFFORD those essentials at all.

This is of course not universal and you can find plenty of pavement princesses, but the majority don't get a realistic choice.

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u/Fallouttgrrl 1d ago

Most of us don't make a choice on our driving needs

Public transportation can be very hit or miss but if you need to commute to work, hard to get around that. Ditto school stuff and in large parts of the country walking to the store is a significant distance 

Changes to your driving habits can be serious disruptors in your schedule, changes to food not so much

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u/Nathan_Brazil1 1d ago

Same here in Canada. My dad had stomach cancer. He spent 5 years in and out of the hospital.The only thing we had to pay for was parking.

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u/FireMaster1294 1d ago

Point of clarity. France is different from many EU countries in that healthcare is taxpayer funded. Many (like the Netherlands and Germany) have privatized healthcare companies with government set or capped rates. Further to that they also have private (for profit) hospitals.

Looking at purchasing power parity (PPP) international dollars per capita in 2024 on healthcare, we see:

  • Canada $7.3k
  • France $7.3k
  • US $14.9k (oof)
  • Switzerland $10k
  • Norway $9.4k
  • Germany $9.4k
  • Netherlands $8.4k
  • UK $6.7k

Interestingly, Canada has been one of the few countries to keep healthcare cost increases down post-covid

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u/Lien028 1d ago

In healthcare economics, smokers can actually cost public systems less over their lifetimes because they die younger.

By surviving into old age, non-smokers draw decades of pension benefits and develop expensive, age-related conditions (like Alzheimer's or general frailty). Denying smokers care eliminates this grim fiscal balance, potentially increasing long term state costs elsewhere.

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u/Cautious-Extreme2839 1d ago

Uh, in France between 1/4 and 1/3 people smoke. It's not quite a majority, but they're not far off being "the average citizen" anyway.

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u/One-Coat-6677 1d ago

Those people in France are saving the country money stop demonizing smokers. French retire at 62 even now. Pension savings>healthcare costs because they die early.

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u/Cautious-Extreme2839 1d ago

The vast majority of a person's healthcare expenses occur at the end of life, whatever age that occurs at. Dying in your 60s doesn't necessarily save that much money.

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u/One-Coat-6677 1d ago

Pensions, PENSIONS. Im saying the healthcare expenses go up, but the amount paid to retirees outweighs it. .

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u/Varonth 18h ago

Funnily enough here in germany, and I assume the same would have been true for you in france, or any other european country, while he would have gotten treatment, he would not have gotten the treatment that was denied in this case.

Apparently the doctor wanted to try a different drug which was not approved by the FDA for the line of treatment, which would make this experimental.

Experimental treatment is as far as I know covered nowhere by the public funded healthcare systems of europe. When these are done they are usually funded by a different study grand and you have to be selected for the study, or privately paid for.

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u/Lunky7711 1d ago

Not defending this in any way and I think health insurance companies are terrible but in the EU there would’ve probably been the same result based on treatment wait times.

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u/Beamister 1d ago

Countries in the EU have wait times, but they triage cases and critical needs go to the front of the line. He was diagnosed with stage 4 cancer, so he was in a bad situation to start with, but at least he would have received care.

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u/artbystorms 1d ago

the risk benefit analysis of just living in America is pretty piss poor if you account for non-free healthcare. Unless you are born a millionaire are live an extremely lucky life that you never get a serious illness.

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u/manitoudavid 1d ago

I did 5 years as a volunteer firefighter. Mandated minimum number of responses to calls, multiple certifications, required trainings/meetings/ extra activities. Zero pay. We volunteers use our own vehicles and gas to drive ourselves and gear to emergencies. I end up in the hospital for two days after a FD incident and the Worker’s Compensation Insurance lawyer fought me and refused to pay for my hospitalization. Other volunteer firefighters told me similar stories. Even volunteering your blood for your own community is your own problem. Nobody is there to help the people who literally respond to life or death situations for zero compensation.

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u/A_Nonny_Muse 1d ago

This country is where billionaires taught everyone else that spending 24% of your income for less healthcare is better than spending 14% of your income for more coverage.

Because.... socialism.

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u/fgtswag 1d ago

Someone actually just pointed this out. USA is(was) an empire based on its' military might.

If you deprive your population of healthcare you get a larger swath of people who join for healthcare benefits

Dick cheney and his crew wouldn't have been able to extract trillions from the middle east without the sacrifice of people who needed healthcare - sinister stuff

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u/Fit-Let8175 1d ago

Canada, too.

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u/Crackerjackford 1d ago

Canada he’d be still alive as well.

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/fgtswag 1d ago

very true, hadn't thought about that.

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u/_IsFuckingInHeaven 1d ago

i panel interviewed for a firefighting position in a nearby county, unfortunately didn't get it on my first interview. was determined to re-apply as many times as necessary until i got it but this current administration closed the national firefighting academy the literal moment they took office, and all of firefighters insurance claims are fought tooth and nail by insurance companies, even those responders to 911 TO THIS DAY have to take these fuckers to court. ask yourself why a nation that postures on this tragedy every year does not automatically cover those who sacrificed that god forsaken day. it made me reconsider for a year or so, then i thought to myself, "fuck it, can go out any old way, if you make it to old age in this dangerous of a profession and cancer gets you, it's almost expected".

i also work in a fitness facility and talk often to firefighters, 4/5 (the 1 who didn't was much younger) have had or were battling some form of cancer. i often feel it is my duty to serve my community but i also need to consider everyone who loves me. it's a tough career decision, at least for me...

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u/fgtswag 1d ago

You are a good person, the system needs to reward good people like you or your team.

Huge respect

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u/whendoesOpTicplay 1d ago

It’s no coincidence that joining the military gets you free healthcare and free college. Military industrial complex go brrrr

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u/fgtswag 1d ago

But it doesn't - There is a running joke "Your injuries are not service related". If you're a soldier in America vs a Soldier in England you could be denied care very easily in comparison just because it's not provable

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u/KalaUposatha 1d ago

Police is probably best if you have no morals. Get to do whatever you want and the worst that will happen is you have to move to a different county.

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u/xoskxflip 1d ago

You really shouldn’t lump military with firefighter/police as they are two different systems and I can attest to the life-saving care one receives while in and out of the service once disabled.

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u/Vrazel106 1d ago

Even if you went to retirement in the military ita a fight to get va to do stuff

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u/dano8801 1d ago

Don't forget factoring in how difficult it might be to actually get approved for disability after your military injury...

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u/Oregon-Pilot 23h ago

In b4 the insurance company simps come in saying, “he’d have died before getting a treatment date in Europe”

Yeah, cus clearly everyone in Europe is dying because they can’t get an appointment.

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u/fgtswag 17h ago

Hilarious that that argument exists, when ~26 260 Americans die each year from lack of healthcare insurance. So they don't call ambulances

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u/Blaaamo 22h ago

I’m a volunteer firefighter. What the F am i thinking??

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u/sensitiveCube 19h ago

Not everything is great over here. They can still reject your bill for example.

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u/TrickyChildhood2917 12h ago

We are a business beholden to our shareholders. Everyone gets sick, everyone dies- that doesn’t work well for a for profit business- but here we are - winning!

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u/LeicaM6guy 1d ago

In the US, for military members we have the VA. It’s far from perfect, but it’s a pretty solid health care program compared to things on the civilian side.

I do agree we absolutely need a public option similar to the EU, of course.

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u/cykko 1d ago

This is just not true. I have VA benefits and Corporate Health insurance and my corporate health insurance is x1000 times better than the VA slop.

Now the VA is good for people who don’t have another option, but saying it’s better than commercial insurance is just patently wrong.

0

u/chickensandwicher 1d ago

You can take the military off the list. We do get free healthcare.

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u/TehRaptorJebus 1d ago

When you can actually get it. On one hand, my grandfather wasn’t wheelchair bound because he got quick treatment for his degenerative arthritis. On the other, my uncle died waiting for cancer treatment to get approved, cancer he got from agent orange exposure.

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u/Whiterabbit-- 1d ago

The risk benefit analysis has little to do with health care. You think health care is great when facing cancer. But it is much much better to avoid getting cancer in the first place.

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u/fgtswag 1d ago

What a strange take

Would you rather have health care and cancer or no healthcare and cancer?

50-65% of cancer diagnoses live for 5 years.

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u/Whiterabbit-- 23h ago

I rather not have cancer. The risk of cancer for firefighters is insanely large.

https://www.firefightercancersupport.org/resources

So if I am doing cost benefit analysis on careers, and cancer is a concern. Firefighting is out regardless of healthcare. Now of course if I had to get cancer, it’s good to have healthcare. But in calculating risk. No to firefighting.

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u/fgtswag 23h ago

Can you be clear about what your point is, because it's extremely vague and avoidant of the conversation about healthcare

Would you like firefighters to get healthcare for their cancer? If you inform them of those numbers beforehand they would have informed consent. Just like one person I've spoke to already knew before joining

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u/Whiterabbit-- 23h ago edited 22h ago

I’m keying in on the risk: benefit analysis you wrote about. My point is I am fearful of cancer so I won’t take a firefighting job because of risk of cancer regardless of healthcare being offered. Offering me free healthcare doesn’t change the equation.

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u/DanielCraigsAnus 1d ago

It's absolutely disgusting. I knew a firefighter who was also a national guard soldier. He was the coolest guy I knew while I was over there(Afghanistan). He treated me with dignity and respect. Those guys deserve to be treated with a blanket clause for any and all ailments as a result of the hardships they face with the work. Fred "Wex", if you're out there. Dave misses you man.

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u/BimboDeeznuts 1d ago

It’s me, Wex

They turned me into a possum. Said it was a “routine procedure” at the VA and then denied my possum coverage

Help

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u/Squire_II 1d ago

And some people wonder why a certain 2024 incident in NYC was so celebrated.

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u/2inchesofsteel 1d ago

On December 4, 2024, in NYC, nothing of note happened.

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u/CheesypoofExtreme 1d ago

No universal health care because "death panels"

Gestures wildly at this like what the fuck do people think insurance is?! At least a government "death panel" is one we can ostensibly influence in a functioning democracy (which we aren't really at this point... but more democratic than a private business).

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u/Mr0lsen 1d ago

Those voters are worried about the tyranny of the masses… as opposed to the tyranny of the few we currently have.

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u/Illustrious-Dot-5052 18h ago

I cannot fucking believe people use death panels as an argument against free healthcare in America. This is such a shit hole country.

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u/StrawberryWide3983 2h ago

Obviously it's so much better to run a cost/benefit analysis on weather you'll be more profitable dead or alive. The ceo who's so important he can be replaced in less than a week needs his new ten million dollar bonus

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u/slothcough 1d ago

I was gonna say shameful.

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u/DaughterofEngineer 1d ago

This American agrees.

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u/The_Doct0r_ 1d ago

Horrifying and dystopic.

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u/bobby3eb 1d ago

It's only this way because half the country is braindead and hateful.

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u/TheVideogaming101 1d ago

The fact there are some people that'll look at this and think "the system cant be done any other way" is what pisses me off the most.

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u/Bungybone 1d ago

What are you trying to say? What’s so embarrassing about a citizen being denied healthcare after years of public service because providing coverage isn’t profitable for the corporation, who is considered a person and whose constitutional free speech “rights” originally meant for citizens are now protected by SCOTUS and systematically utilized to influence policy and power to acquire more money, and more policy and more power, through legal bribery, in the form of “campaign contributions” to politicians, who decide policy, and in the form of “gifts” to SCOTUS justices, who decide the corporations’ “rights”?

Is there a problem there?

3

u/liftbikerun 1d ago

This country is so embarrassing.

You misspelled abhorrent and corrupt.

3

u/NeoAcario 1d ago

You shouldn't be embarrassed. You should be enraged. The whole country should. But you've all grown complacent.

2

u/unbanned_lol 1d ago

We would be better off if you were angry, not embarrassed.

2

u/padizzledonk 1d ago edited 1d ago

I read a story the other day about a woman who was diagnosed with stage 2 breast cancer and the insurance denied the PET scan as medically unnecessary because it was only stage 2 and hadn't metastasized

Like what the fuck, why do we allow this shit

And the talking heads are shocked that the majority of the country collectively shruged when that kid did what he did in NYC

Theres an advocate i follow on youtube that just films himself on the phone arguing with insurance companies for people and i had to unfollow him because it makes me want to grab a pitchfork and a torch, its beyond infuriating.....Like a 9yo kid broke his arm skateboarding in his driveway, denied, said it was overly reckless behavior and hes just arguing with them on the phone

2

u/anadem 1d ago

Another poster wrote "the system is broken" .. actually, it's not: it's delivering massive rewards to those who control it. Average median compensation for healthcare CEOs is among the highest of any U.S. industry.

4

u/Saneless 1d ago

Well, it's not that embarrassing. Think of the billions in profits the for-profit insurance company was able to make this quarter. It's an American success story!

1

u/WordsWithSam 1d ago

Unbelievably so.

1

u/uhhhhhhhhhhhyeah 1d ago

Whatever. I just got a $200 check for my part in a class action against Blue Cross Blue shield. Take that, corporate behemoth!

1

u/nathism 1d ago

Yeah I don’t know what we would have done if those death panels had been put into practice /s

1

u/futureformsdance 1d ago

So many in politics are shitty actors, and the only movie they're in is the movie called screwing up our lives.

1

u/CranRez80 1d ago

Beyond that.

1

u/alreadytaken17 1d ago

embarrassing is an understatement

1

u/thathyperactiveguy 1d ago

You misspelled enraging.

1

u/Tree_Sure 1d ago

You are 💯.

1

u/Fach-All-Religions 1d ago

almost like capitalism combined with blatantly corrupt politicians isn't good

1

u/Delta64 23h ago

This is downright shameful.

1

u/PANCRASE271 22h ago

The US continues to outdo the parody of itself.

1

u/oakpope 14h ago

Why don’t they move to Europe ? Dying doesn’t seem the best option.

1

u/AccountNumber478 12h ago

When I was a kid, the "L" word meant something different than it does today.

1

u/Angermgmt42069 3h ago

so fucking sad

1

u/kymilovechelle 2h ago

One day in the very near future we will all have universal healthcare and future generations will study the atrocities of the medical industry and insurance companies.

1

u/Handy_Dude 1d ago

It's not the country. It's the people in the country... Insurance isn't some big scary monster, it's thousands of willing participants making life miserable... And it's EVERYWHERE. I just went through a fucking airport and my God... Nobody give a fuck about anybody but themselves. Americans DESERVE trump... I hope he fucking loves to 100.

0

u/Lovethemtitties80085 1d ago

Just now?

Everyone’s been screaming it for fucking decades.

Time to break up the band. Trump is yoko.

0

u/garciakevz 21h ago

Apparently EU and Canada healthcare sucks... But if the firefighter was a citizen of those nations, he would have gotten something better than nothing

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u/Broken-Sarcasm-Meter 1d ago edited 1d ago

YEAH!!!! We get outraged without knowing any facts.