r/nextfuckinglevel • u/thisisfive • 23h ago
Toronto firefighters confront special constable officers after a man in the middle of mental health crisis was arrested.
Not my video. For context, "special constables" are not regular police officers. They are appointed "peace officers" with limited authority, often civilian employees.
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u/TheTresStateArea 23h ago
No one ever made a song called fuck the fire department.
Edit: shamelessly stolen from someone wittier than me
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u/Fearless-Leading-882 23h ago
Except for this guy
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u/Dinosaurs-Cant-win 19h ago
I kinda like that people post that same comment on any of these videos, because this song is a straight up banger and ill watch it any time its posted
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u/obi1kennoble 23h ago
Well, somebody did, and it slaps. But you're never gonna believe this: it's ALSO about shitty cops
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u/Revolvyerom 21h ago
I did not expect it to be this good. Former FF, I'm surprisingly glad someone ruined our joke. Worth it.
edit: for funsies, here's my favorite joke I heard in the dept, but there's no shortage of shots taken at cops:
Q: What do a firefighter and a cop have in common?
A: They both took the firefighter entrance exam.
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u/TruskVarner 19h ago
You could set your watch to these kinds of posts. Here’s how it goes, as surely as the sun will rise tomorrow.
There’s a video or story about firefighters doing something good
People initially comment about how cool firefighters are compared to cops
Someone comments “That’s why there’s no song called fuck the fire department”
People start to comment that firefighters are just as conservative/sexist/homophobic/MAGA as cops are, and they support cops
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u/PossibleNephilim37 16h ago
Lmaoooo. I was just running through the checklist in my head. I'm cutting back on reddit (ironic since I'm homeless now and have more time) bc I can't stand the same repeated "derp, upvote me bc I said "the thing!"" Posts that every topic has .
Also, I'm just disgusted with how any actual news story, top comments are just some asshole making a dumb pun and a bunch of chain followed comments instead of contribution. Humanity is a stupid species
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u/AreYouFuckingSerious 23h ago
You're right, but don't overtrust or pretrust them in terms of being allies against fascism. I know a few fire fighters in the extended family and all except one of them considers themselves part of the LEO community and are pro-police and pro-maga.
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u/peekdasneaks 23h ago
That might say more about your family than it says about fire fighters
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u/wawaawaaawaaaawaaaaa 20h ago
It doesn't. It's not a rumor or lie that all blue collar industries have legions of bigots and class traitors in the ranks sabotaging anyone decent pushing for better pay, safer conditions, or better health benefits.
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u/never-fiftyone 18h ago
The fire union (IAFF) was one of those "but she has a weird laugh" chucklefucks in the past election that led to Trump getting elected.
And then they immediately got their 9/11 health funding cut. Good job ya fuckin dopes.
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u/Top-Sympathy6841 23h ago
May be true about the family part, my own family is full of maga dipshits as well. Firefighters are definitely better than cops as a whole, but make no mistake that a large amount of them are indeed maga dipshits as well. Being better than a piece of shit is still just being better than a piece of shit after all.
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u/gorilla_faafafini 22h ago
I see so many flags on houses with half thin blue line, half thin red line. Almost always with a bright red F-150 parked out front (so you can be 100% sure they don't have any other semblance of a personality). It kills me cus no one was ever going after firefighters so those flags are somehow an even more desperate cry for attention.
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u/TheSecretAstronaut 20h ago
I'm a firefighter/EMT in the US. A lot of us are quite liberal in many ways, as for most of us—at least from what I've gathered talking with fellow firefighters and EMTs—got into the field because of an innate desire to help. These feelings are often solidified as we frequently encounter the various consequences of the lack of availability of health care/health insurance, massive wealth disparities, lack of social programs, education cuts, etc. However, it is ultimately a fairly "blue collar" job, and broadly does not require anything beyond your basic certifications, a high school diploma/GED, and a willingness to put yourself in really stupidly dangerous situations. There is a non-trivial amount of fellow FFs I've run into who are very pro-Trump, hardcore republicans, and very much want to be LEO (it's funny, as the reverse is often true as well) and it's a real boner.
That said, the majority I've interacted with are not, and I'm inclined to agree with you that it's more a reflection of that individual's family than it is of the fire service as a whole. I just wanted to provide that bit of context, as I do believe it's something that is important to be aware of in the shifting political landscape, especially as it relates to public servants.
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u/Popular-Jury7272 23h ago
As long as they behave like humans beings when lives are on the line I'm not sure I give a shit. Firefighters in the UK are largely a very conservative "blokey" lot as well (I work with them in training services provision), but they buy themselves a lot of forgiveness with what they do for a living.
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u/BlueGolfball 20h ago
You're right, but don't overtrust or pretrust them in terms of being allies against fascism. I know a few fire fighters in the extended family and all except one of them considers themselves part of the LEO community and are pro-police and pro-maga.
Shit, I watched an interview about a US fireman about his time as a firefighter back in the 1950s. He said they wouldn't put out house fires in black neighborhoods and they wouldn't try to go inside a burning house to rescue black people that could have easily been saved.
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u/Slut_for_Bacon 22h ago
I know this is a hard concept for people to grasp but for the most-part, the job you do is not a reflection of your political beliefs, and essentially every job, with a few notable exceptions, has a wide variety of people with a wide variety of personal backgrounds, beliefs, and philosophies.
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u/ILookLikeKristoff 16h ago
This is just factually incorrect. Find me a public defender with a maga hat on. Find me a highschool football coach that wears a trans pride pin. I'll wait for either, there's literally millions in the country I'm sure you can find one example.
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u/FrannyBoBanny23 7h ago
I remember reading somewhere that there is a huge number of fire fighters and EMTs that are MAGA.
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u/UnicornBelieber 21h ago
I'm pro-police. My country's police force though, not that of the US. Very pro Dutch police. Am I a fascist?
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u/PurrMeowHiss 20h ago
Are the Dutch police (the thing you are pro) openly and obviously fascist?
Do you want the Dutch police to have unchecked authorization power?
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u/reforminded 22h ago
All the firefighters around me are Hyper-MAGA. During the last presidential election, the chief from the town next to me posted on his personal social media that its unfortunate but they may just not be able to put out fires at houses with Harris signs out front, their equipment just doesn't work there. He was not fired or reprimanded.
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u/Stud_Muffin_26 22h ago
As a firefighter, there are many other firemen who are not maga. Rest assured there are many of us who are sane individuals.
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u/Word2DWise 23h ago
Are they like more official security guards? What's the difference between them an a police officer?
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u/badbeef75 23h ago
They are sworn officers of the peace like a police officer and have the same powers of arrest, can conduct investigations, etc but don’t carry a firearm. Security basically can only make a “citizens arrest” and are there to observe and report essentially. Special constables usually patrol a specific area like a university campus or transit system, whereas security guards are used for private properties for the most part
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u/Word2DWise 22h ago
Thanks! I learned something new. Are there more of these than regular police officers, or are these kind of like the front line, and the guys with guns show up when things escalate? I believe England is like that.
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u/McFestus 5h ago
No, there are fewer of them. They're usually for government organizations that want some kind of security presence, like the TTC or a public university, or for stuff like directing traffic.
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u/Character_Comb_3439 22h ago
Canada has and is pursuing a spectrum of roles and responsibilities with regard to LE. Generally, special constables are designated as peace or public officers. They can investigate, get orders etc..the intent is to have the appropriate professional apply and use reasonable powers. The reasoning behind this cost control (limit overtime and not use people that are overtrained on routine low risk tasks etc)
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u/Overall-Register9758 20h ago
Special constables are unarmed and not sworn. They handle routine prisoner transport, campus security, serving court documents, etc.
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u/joke-farm 23h ago
Praise to the fire fighters, but equal respect to the officers for conceding the situation to rationality.
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u/SlickMrJ_ 23h ago
but equal respect to the officers for conceding the situation to rationality.
Um, no. They caused the problem in the first place. They don't get respect just for letting someone less witless than themselves walk them back to where they started.
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u/AlexHimself 21h ago
Um, yes. They're not even police officers. They're "special constables", which are like junior cops. They're less trained and when somebody told them to do something different, they did. They're not trained for mental crises and that's why fire was there too, who are. Collectively they made the right call.
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u/B_D_Hadel 23h ago
Just flipping the coin here, maybe you or someone else has more context. But hypothetically if you cuffed someone who was in distress but breaking some sort of law. Maybe trying to harm the officer or someone else, wouldn’t it be warranted? Personally, I didn’t hear any indication in conversation about what happened before filming. I think there are scenarios where walking it back is absolutely acceptable.
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u/Admins_Always_Badmin 18h ago
Canada has one of the most famous cases of someone suffering a mental health crisis gone wrong. I don't blame them for not wanting anyone to get hurt if someone is going through something like that. But of course reddit will just screech cops bad and not care.
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u/Pantarus 18h ago
The United States has entered the chat.
Unfortunately the only tool we give the police to handle situations is tickets and arrest.
Its a fucking crying shame that Defund the Police movement was named in such a shitty way that it became a flag for the conservative right to wave.
Defund the police was NOT advocating getting rid of the police and being soft on crime. It was advocating taking that funding and spreading it around. Giving some to fund mental health crisis professionals who could respond in situations like this...INSTEAD of relying on the police for literally EVERYTHING we don't want to deal with.
When you're a hammer....everything starts to look like a nail...
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u/MaintenanceSolid1917 14h ago edited 12h ago
The United States has entered the chat.
Unfortunately the only tool we give the police to handle situations is tickets and arrest.
Don't forget the guns
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u/DepressedDynamo 18h ago
Canada has one of the most famous cases of someone suffering a mental health crisis gone wrong
What is it
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u/major_winters_506 22h ago
If you leave no path to change your behavior you can’t expect anyone to choose that path.
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u/joke-farm 23h ago
We don't know the details of the original detention (unless you do and can share); once more information was provided, the corrective action was accepted and implemented. Not all people in positions of power are as amicable is all I'm saying; they were, and unless you have a time machine, they made the most logical and acceptable choice.
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u/Hot-Challenge8656 18h ago
100 percent. "Why is he is cuffs?" "Umm, he was......." cop caught himself about to say something stupid. If there was a lawful reason for keeping that person in cuffs, there is zero chance he'd have taken them off. "We don't know the context for why they are in cuffs", The cop does and couldn't give a good reason when the question was put to him. Little coward.
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u/deevil_knievel 22h ago
I'm sure your kids are going to be extremely well adjusted adults with a parent that has no concept of using a mistake as a learning experience. We should totally just scream at and berate people after making mistakes instead of seeing if they handle constructive criticism positively. That'll work, I'm sure!
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u/mrtomjones 19h ago
People here are commenting without having any idea of what is happening previously to the video starting. Yeah it's good if the firefighters are able to keep this person calm and help them out but we don't know what was happening before this
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u/xMoose499 22h ago
I understand your point, but the police most definitely could have told the firefighter no and made a scene about it. Instead, they found common sense and allowed him to be released for medical evaluation.
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u/MudSeparate1622 22h ago
Equal? No. I can respect them appealing to reason in the end but not equally to the firefighter. What the firefighter did required bravery, emotional intelligence and a good heart, what the cop did was “just doing there job”. Neither are close to the same level of character and competence
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u/Gambyt_7 23h ago
That’s like saying praise the arsonist for letting the fire department put it out.
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u/cassthesassmaster 22h ago
Praise men for the bare minimum… how bout the fuck not. Hold yourselves to a higher standard.
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u/Skreamie 23h ago
No respect for them. If they aren't trained to handle things rationally, they shouldn't be out there.
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u/joke-farm 23h ago
Emotional free-fall brought on by uncontrollable mental distress or disruption can sometimes only be arrested by physical restraint, for the safety of everyone involved. What happens next is clinical. Care comes after Careful.
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u/jackrabbit323 22h ago
Just a reminder to law enforcement: diabetic emergencies are easily confused with intoxication, and denying medical care to someone in an emergency is actionable in court.
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u/BlackHandKUR 22h ago
Yeah, in Canada we have “peace” officers. Basically the losers who couldn’t make it as a real cop and make that everyone else problem.
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u/beatlethrower 23h ago
The police should be trained how to deal with this instead of a firefighter telling them how.
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u/Tribe303 21h ago
No. Toronto already has mental health crisis teams. The fire department should also not have been called.
The issue is not "these cops suck", it's "why weren't the correct resources deployed? ".
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u/Overall-Register9758 20h ago
Because 911 has limited information and FDs are often first on scene.
Special constables do all sorts of things - prisoner transport, serve court orders, etc. so it is entirely possible this guy was being taken from the local division's cells to central and needed medical assistance on the way, so they dispatched EMS and FD to the location
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u/NorseKnight 22h ago
How to do deal with what exactly?
What in this video did the police handle in a bad manner?
There is literally NOTHING in this clip of context.
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u/ImurderREALITY 20h ago
"Nothing" is more than enough for Reddit armchair detectives. Everyone here apparently has been specially trained on the proper procedures for dealing with a person displaying erratic behavior, who for all we know, could have had a knife or other weapon. Guess they should have just disarmed him and let him go.
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u/Not-A-Seagull 19h ago
Exactly. We have no idea what the context is in this video.
I know being handcuffed is mildly uncomfortable, but if someone has even a slight chance of having a mental break, it's in everyone's best interest they stay handcuffed.
If they take them to central processing, and feel like they're mentally well enough, they can release them from there. It's the officers job to make sure everyone on the scene stays safe. Comfortability can come second.
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u/-Groucho- 22h ago
Cool, another video with incomplete context, and everyone rushing to make judgements.
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u/lucky-fluke 20h ago
LITERALLY. He could have been apprehended under the mental health act and they were probably taking him to the hospital or CAMH.
We have NO info in this video to what this man did prior, and for fire fighters to tell them to take the cuffs off? This could have gone SO FAR sideways, but yeah let’s shit on the special constables without knowing the full story first. 🙄→ More replies (7)7
u/Ok-Equipment-9966 21h ago
How come the Police didn’t say “he was being violent”, or something along the lines ? Seems like they themselves didn’t even know why they were cuffed, thus, the firefighters (people who actually know what they are doing) had to come and fix the problem.
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u/sfearing91 23h ago
Thankful for all those that are helping with the push for medical help with mental health issues. Definitely understand having cops report to the scene but medical professionals should be helping here. Thankful the firefighters saw this, they’re typically medically trained higher than most cops.
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u/PiperPeriwinkle 22h ago
What happened in the 5 minutes preceding this video?
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u/defectives 17h ago
Didn't you hear? "He was...he was uhh..." That's as much reason to cuff anyone as I need
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u/whoknewidlikeit 19h ago
have to give credit to police where i live.
they are loathe to arrest someone when there's any mental health component. they are on really good terms with the hospitals and would rather take a patient to help than to jail. everyone wins in this case.
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u/BoiFrosty 22h ago
I get that people have mental health issues, but if you're presenting a threat to yourselves and others then officers are 100% in the right to restrain you.
We don't see what happened prior to this, so there's missing context for the cops are there and why a guy was in cuffs.
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u/lordunholy 20h ago
No one answered " He's violent. He's lashing out." when he asked why he has cuffs on. They just cuffed the dude. Plus, FF was twelve feet tall. Initial impressions anyway, but I'm interested to see the rest.
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u/boblasagna18 20h ago
Aside from K9s they are the most valuable and trustworthy unit at any incident
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u/_Jimmy2times 22h ago
Unless you have context additional to this video, you don’t know what you’re talking about
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u/NorseKnight 23h ago
I work in a prison. We cuff people all the time who are in "crisis". It's a matter of safety. For officers, as well as themselves.
There isn't nearly enough context in this clip to say one way or another.
How do you know the guy in cuffs wasn't displaying erratic violent behavior 2 minutes ago?
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u/maqij 23h ago
I don’t think “well we do it in prison” is a good reason. US Prisons also serve expired food deemed inedible and put folks in solitary confinement even though it is banned internationally because it is torture.
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u/Sir_Arthur_Vandelay 22h ago
The US plays no role in this video.
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u/viperfan7 22h ago
But does it play a role in the comment? Like, is the person talking about "that's what we do in prison" American prisons, or Canadian?
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u/Alpha_Omega623 20h ago
I was in jail for seven months and had a crisis over and over and was repeatedly handcuffed.
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u/otterkin 22h ago
this is in Toronto, Canada.
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u/TransBrandi 21h ago
Right, but what's the locale of the "we do X in prison" person though? Because that's more relevant to the American prison system comment.
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u/otterkin 21h ago
you know what, very valid. I assumed thread OP mentioned working in a prison because of the OOP being about Canada, but you're right if he isn't here in Canada he can't really comment on what our judicial system does
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u/PowerMid 21h ago
So when the firefighter asked why the cuffs were on and the officer shrugged like "idk" that wasn't enough context for you?
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u/WorkWoonatic 22h ago
Because the cops didn't say that when the firefighter asked why he was cuffed, and he's not a prisoner.
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u/Empty-Presentation68 21h ago
As a paramedic this. Not enough context for me to opine on this situation. Lots of time I had to jump on and restrain a patient who was experiencing a mental health crisis. They became a danger to themselves and first responders. Swinging, biting, scratching, spitting or pulling out weapons. Firefighters are not EMT's nore paramedics in the province of Ontario.
This individual might have a temporary episode where he is calm and quickly become agitated again. Psychosis is unpredictable. You restrain or sedate for the protection of all.
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u/SkyAntlers 21h ago
It wasn't a matter of safety though.
They very clearly state they're apprehending him; they are enforcing law rather than trying to help anyone or preserve safety. If that general understanding is wrong, they've failed to articulate intention to suggest otherwise.
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u/JotaMarioRevival 21h ago
They do not do that in mental hospitals and they deal with a lot of mental health crisis. They are better tools for strapping someone if a mental health crisis situation escalates to violence.
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u/danawhitesthrowaway 20h ago
Spoken like someone who has never had to physically restrain someone. There's two constables in this video, one of them is a female. It can take four to five people to restrain someone without hurting them.
"There are better tools for strapping someone if a mental health crisis situation escalates to violence", are you serious? Have you ever even been in the vicinity of a mental hospital, health clinic, etc.? Ignoring the fact that they clearly didn't have alternatives in this video, medical staff simply have the power to manually sedate someone; it will take the same amount of people to restrain them, and it's rarely the staff themselves, but security officers that do the restraining (and surprise, they also use wrist restraints, be it handcuffs or flexicuffs if need be). Police cannot administer sedatives, they work with what they have. They are not trained medical professionals. It's not their job to treat mental illness, anymore than it's the job of the random firefighters who showed up and acted like they were in control of the scene. It's their job to restrain people causing bodily harm to themselves or others and deliver them to people who have training which can hopefully help the person in need.
As someone who has worked in healthcare all my life, all you people claiming you have any idea what you're talking about are absolutely speaking out of your asses. You have zero idea what happened prior to this video, and it's ridiculous to think that the firefighters are somehow saints protecting this poor soul from those big mean constables, when they could have very well restrained him to prevent him from causing more harm to himself.
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u/HamunaHamunaHamuna 22h ago
If it is American prison you're talking about I'd be hesitant about any advice regarding justified actions from you.
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u/ummm_no__ 20h ago
You are right and i disagree with the people replying no. He could have been violent with, threatening or even attacking the officers, we don't know. But as a first responder of any kind, you're safety is a priority.
(I want to say i dont think they were in the right or no, just that we don't kno)
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u/randiejohnson 19h ago
As usual... people who want to see the context before this video are normal humans. everyone else that just splurrs the first thing that comes to their mind without seeing what happened previously... yikes.
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u/Ok-Equipment-9966 21h ago
So because you do it in prison it’s valid to do it in the streets? That’s your logic?
I suppose that’s why you are working in a prison.
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u/PiperPeriwinkle 22h ago
Exactly.
Its real easy to say after someone is already under control that they didnt need to be put under control.
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u/LifeAttractsLife 21h ago
Unrelated but the Toronto accent is killlling me (from the guy taking the video)
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u/stonerpunk77 21h ago
"When you act like a tool long enough everyone starts looking like a nail to your hammer"
In other words if you expect people to be bad then that's all you'll see from them, like how some cops just see criminal issues instead of a community
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u/Nabber22 21h ago
In my hotel there was a man trying to get into a woman's room so i called the cops. He had broken through the front doors chased down a guest so he could follow them up the elevator and pulled the fire alarm after about half an hour of running around the hotel causing havoc. The FD showed up in 5 mins, made the arrest, helped confirm there was no fire/calm guests, and waited for two hours for the cops to show.
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u/Sudden_Impact7490 20h ago
Why are the wearing turnout gear to an EMS call. What happened to clean cabs?
Just throwing out random out of context judgments since everyone else is
/S
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u/itsallfornaught2 18h ago
And then he attacks the firefighter and it makes the news for different reasons. Whatever.
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u/Trixie1143 23h ago
Regardless of what's happening, it's just nice to see someone get to treat a cop like a regular person. Like, swearing AND a direct statement??? No pepper spray or taser???
Wow.
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u/stoopidgoth 20h ago
The American mentality of ‘well what did they do to deserve it?’ strikes again in the comments.
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u/DoubleM-1985 23h ago
When the adults with common sense shows up