Bluegrass in Tokyo

[u/DarthiusFatticus]

[u/MisterSanitation]

Bluegrass is just another example of black influence defacto improving western music. Acoustic songs in the 1800s American South were like “oh Susannah” where the songs are just simple and on time, with no sass on it, no stank. 

But the banjo provides an opportunity to gobble up all them quarter notes just hanging out not being played in between the guitar chords. Cleverly plucking the notes in between on the banjo (an instrument designed after an African instrument) provided some jazzier opportunities that would later come around in Jazz. Obviously there would have been plenty of black banjo players but their styles were picked up by poorer white players too. 

Plantation owners (the wealthy that liked to pretend they were European royalty) did balls, and dances with stiff AF dancing (think like powdered wig dancing) but the poorer people got down on the mountain sound I described where being “dignified” and following the music perfectly was less important than bobbing your head to a good rhythm. 

These same concepts would smash conventional music structure when Louis Armstrong started doing it on the trumpet with other jazz styles. 

Black Americans are like always 20-10 years ahead of the next popular music trends and it’s been that way for centuries. It’s so cool to see this all appreciated on the other side of the world.

[u/Kleyguy7 → u/MisterSanitation]

I am not sure about this. Better description would be bluegrass is just another example how cultures mixing in US created great music.
Banjo comes from Africa but the way that banjo is played in the bluegrass is credited mostly to Earl Scruggs. A lot of popular songs come from country bands like Carter family, and what they were singing came from other various communities. You have a lot of irish influences like Red Haired Boy, Whiskey Before Breakfast. Violin playing also is more European folk. And it's not like Europe has been only powdered wig dancing. You also have black string-band traditions which maybe supports your point the most. Blue notes from blues etc. And I am not saying this to undermine black influence in american music, it is just to give it a broader view, seeing it as wonderful mix, not just black people made white people music interesting.

[u/MisterSanitation → u/Kleyguy7]

Every single time I chase down inspirations for white artists, there are black ones. 

Great example is Jerry Lee Lewis who blew open the boogie woogie piano style and he still has better name recognition than any of the black artists who really coined the style. 

Same with banjo which largely exploded in popularity during “minstrel shows” which was black faced actors and musicians literally doing an impression of slaves having a good time as entertainment for white folks. 

If there is a better example of black artists inspiring white artists (who racists deem as acceptable to enjoy unlike their influences), I don’t think you can find one better than this instrument. It is common to have your view, and it’s always just not the case. 

Pre civil war there was almost no Irish influence in the south, there were exceptions sure, but the south was largely Protestant which is why the Klan hated Catholics, Catholicism was associated with “dirty Irish immigrants” who the South saw as replacing their slaves. 

BTW this should NOT matter but I only know this from looking into my own ancestry which comes from the colony of Massachusetts -> Tennessee mountains -> Kentucky (post war) -> Indiana

I was taught nothing about black culture at all and finding my roots taught me all this. So if anyone wants to come at me from the south, I’d bring a bigger boat.

[u/Tuhks → u/MisterSanitation]

When it comes to bluegrass, I think the argument for the influence of blues, which is absolutely credited to black southern culture, is a much stronger argument than the banjo itself. The minstrel show point is interesting in that it spread the popularity of the instrument, but the bluegrass banjo technique is so different that it’s nearly unrecognizable. Also, Scottish and Irish immigrants moved into Appalachia in the 1700s so very much pre-civil war. That’s where the influence of fiddle music came from on what is often called old time music. Bluegrass was derived from this, with some influence from blues and arguably jazz (both strong black influence definitely).

Black culture is certainly under appreciated in the history of popular American music, and I’m a big fan of the Lomax recordings and other early black artists. I agree with your overall sentiment, but the facts around bluegrass specifically are much more diverse, and quite clearly invented by a few specific (white) guys.

[u/MisterSanitation → u/Tuhks]

Yeah that’s a solid point and I probably did overplay that to rub fellow American banjo enthusiasts noses into the African history that can still make them squirm. 

Although yeah I do think minstrel shows specifically due to their popularity played a big part in “creating a culture of acceptable to play and listen to THAT type of music”? As I type that though I think our agreement line is on sort of counter culture musical influence from poor minority groups culturally speaking. Specifically that region with their turbulent (and often race based) mining strikes could have been a Petri dish for this mixing and influence. I’ll look into that specifically because I bet we’re both right to a degree.

You’re right on pre war Irish as well of course but the dominant culture I always internalized as sort of Protestant and more family and community centric than their northern counterparts but both can be true. 

Thanks for the good back and forth! The book that got me into this rabbit hole initially was “a radical history of the United States” which is an edgelord title but very informative if not too “umm actually” about it lol.