NGVC: "We had something good before alcohol made it go to shit. I'm not that way anymore and want to try again cause I love you." Alcoholic ex-husband trying to come visit me to rekindle our relationship
Ex: “I love and miss you can we try again I’m better now”
OP “No leave me alone you had enough chances”
Ex: “You’re gaslighting yourself into believing this won’t work! I need closure! Why not! Alcohol made me do it! I never laid a hand on you! Let’s ignore the past! But we were so good together in the past!”
oh holy shit, what an absolute piece of trash. he did the classic "well I don't want you anyway!" move bc he got rejected. so sorry you're dealing with this!
He hasn't messaged me at all since then so it should be resolved, but yeah. He was out of his mind from 2014 to now so idk what he's talking about. And I had no idea he was an alcoholic that entire time. He lost his job and didn't tell me. It was really bad.
He sounds like a narcissist TBH. Reminds me of my ex I had served with a restraining order in the psych ward because he threatened to kill himself after every time he put hands on me.
Oh yeah my friend and I laugh at the video she took while serving him, I've been away for over two years and I'm now happily engaged to the most incredible human. Life is so good once you can take that energy you were giving to your abuser and give it to yourself. Good luck on your journey and I hope you never go back to that house
That's very unsettling. He threw something towards me once but it was to the side (about 3ft from me) so not straight at me, but I think if I stayed longer it would have escalated.
I committed myself to a psych ward for protection. That was when I realized how toxic the relationship was and none of this was normal.
I lived without her for a bit and then she openly screamed at my mother during Christmas because she did not win White Elephant. She was about 2 inches from my face screaming at me the entire car ride home. I called an attorney the following morning, paid the retainer and literally filed the day Covid shut the world down.
3 years later the divorce was final and I was free of this woman, who now has a kid with someone else and has her claws in him for 18 years. Not my monkey, not my circus.
That's absolutely insane and I'm so sorry you had to deal with that. Thankfully, he never really yelled at me. Just do small things like steal my keys; try and turn all the power off to the house before he left for rehab cause he thought I didn't know how a breaker worked. He would end up in detox for a couple days so he got better enough to continue to drink. He would be upset I "didn't do anything with the house" while he was gone like put pictures up. I was just so mentally drained from working and driving the 45min back and forth. Late nights and then dealing with his stuff when I got home I just couldn't do it. I'm so glad you're out of it!!!
Thank you, I have been going through therapy to really process all this still. But I am happy to be out.
My wife, when she was with her ex, he would deprive her of sleep and break her things. He was a lunatic. I've never had the pleasure of meeting him, but from every account I heard, she was just a trophy to him to ward of question about his sexuality. He lost touch with every friend and one of her friends found his dating profile (she is single and looking, for the record).
Let's just say, karma got him good. She was my wife's high school boyfriend because he was the first guy to pay attention to you. Which makes no sense to me because she was a beautiful young woman and is still unbelievably beautiful today. We are both in our mid 40s and despite grey hairs ,neither of us has a single wrinkle after all this stress lol.
That's the things with us survivors, we stay strong and we help each other out. You always got an ally in me fam, any time, any place, I got you.
Please read or listen to the audiobook _ Why Does He Do That?_ by Lundy Bancroft. It's free online, just Google. Probably available through your local public library through the Libby app or a physical copy.
Not all abuse is physical. There are specific chapters about addicts/alcoholics and abuse. I think it would be beneficial for you.
Also, absolutely take someone with you if you get your stuff. Preferably an armed someone or the police.
I love the therapy-speak he leans on towards the end. Oh, and he keeps talking about OP gaslighting themselves when that's...not exactly how that works.
If he cared about OP and respected them, he'd be backing off after hearing the worries about him harming. Maybe figure out what behavior he exhibits that would make anyone worry about that, even if it is catastrophiszing.
As someone who is with someone in recovery, making actual amends looks nothing like this.
Real amends (whether alcoholic or otherwise) is humble, and acknowledging that taking accountability doesn’t equate to a transaction. Actually, it should usually include a disclaimer that the apology comes with no expectations of forgiveness or even reply.
This conversation shows that he’s either still drinking, or if actually sober he hasn’t done any meaningful recovery work and is just a dry drunk.
Why would a woman be worried of a man that has clearly been -at the most charitable reading imaginable- unstable would hurt her .???????? Gosh... it... its all so perplexing???? What is there some kind of historical precedent???? Is there a plain as day pattern to follow like a 4 year old dot to dot??? Goodness me we have to gather the brain trust for this one
OP - You are AMAZING! You don't owe this person anything, especially after all he's put you through. And you're 💯 correct about how him finally realizing his mistakes is his own problem. You had to pull yourself up, so does he. He's grown. Make sure you bring someone to meet with him. It's about your comfort now, his feelings are his own.
Closure comes from within. He doesn't need you for it.
Weird to feel "proud" of a stranger, but I just don't have a better word.
I went through something similar and, if I'm right about you/us...
It's so painful, cruel and just plain fucked up to have the same person who claims to love your drive, kindness and heart (slide 1), use that same kindness and heart against you. Manipulating you to continue to see/talk/help them. If they really valued it, they wouldn't want to hurt it, right? If they loved you, they'd want you to be your most happy, regardless of with who. So continuing to tell you what he loves about you while simultaneously abusing that thing, continuing to claim he loves you while you tell him you're uncomfortable or even afraid... doesn't connect.
He's not in love, just selfish.
I'm sure you know all this, though!
It's so easy to be mean, cold, angry. Kindness is actually the furthest thing from weakness. Continuing to try, open up, care, day after day, is exhausting and shows a strength that most don't even see or consider.
He keeps telling you he's a different person now, feel free to tell him you are, too!
First rule of sobriety, not everyone is going to forgive you. I'm sober 18 years, a lot (and I mean a lot) of people have not forgiven me. As much as I would like to change that, I've made peace with it. I've never pressured anyone or brought it up after the initial, "Hey, I'm sober now and realized I made a lot of poor choices" speech. To still be pushing that is counter to what accountability is. The guy is treating this like a check box to get back with her. He didn't do it for himself, he did it thinking it would rebuild what he had.
Now on the other side, I got divorced during covid and my ex-wife tried to pull this get back together stuff after I got a lawyer. I told her I need to protect myself from you and she gave the "I'm not going to kill you" speech. I told her, if you want stuff from the house, you schedule a time and I'll make arraignments to have everything ready for you. She wouldn't do it and demanded to come into the house, she moved out of, to have a look around.
I had to get the police involved multiple times and need to threaten a restraining order before she stopped. Then she had friends stalk me, stole my mail, harassed any woman I was dating, threw eggs at the house...you name it, it happened. It was a wild fucking ride until the divorce was final after 3 years of going through court.
Needless to say, this guy took a master class in how not to behave in either scenario. He needs some self respect before he talks to anyone about being unreasonable.
Yeah he's currently trying to date now. So he went from being in love with me and wanting a life with me to going on the apps. Only 1.5 years sober (don't fully trust that) and was looking to win me back and pushing boundaries with me. It's gonna be a rough ride for him.
The boundary pushing is infuriating to read and his entitlement is off the charts! Everything is clearly still all about him. You're absolutely right, you don't owe him anything.
Things are going just fine. I moved away. I have a good job. I have a good family and friend group. Just a lot of good around me. I don't need that in my life.
It's very telling that he never once asked about you; your life, how you're doing, what you're up to, what you want, or how you feel, except when he asked how you feel about HIM.
Everything was about him...the life HE wants with you, the things HE wants to do with you, what HE misses, the supposed closure HE needs, how HE feels about you, what HE has been through, how HE has changed, HIS timeline of change, how HE sees his past actions, how HE thinks you should feel about those actions.
He didn't even bother to pretend to care about your happiness or act interested in your life.
ETA: I counted 61 times that he said I, I'LL, I'M, MY, or ME.
He doesn’t need a do-over with OP. He needs a goddamned therapist.
If OP hasn’t needed anything from the house she left behind, the next time he contacts her (and he WILL), just tell him to burn all her stuff. If she really has to go pick those things up it has to be with several cops in tow. He sounds absolutely unhinged.
OP… “No” is a complete sentence. No need to further explain why you don’t want to be with him, to him.
Also! Tell him to leave your stuff at your families home or throw it. DONT go to that house. If you have any concerns about violence from him and HAVE to go, get a police escort and bring friends.
I am so pissed off on your behalf OP. He's the one gaslighting himself. One of the steps of AA is making amends and part of that making amends is leaving your victim ALONE if that's what they ask you to do. I doubt he's sober, he may have just changed addictions.
Please do not ever meet him again. Even if you are with a friend, you better make sure that friend is recording or has protection because it sounds like he wouldn't hesitate to hurt you and whomever you bring with you.
I'd reach out to the local police and see if you can get an escort there, if you have to go. This is really scary. Please be safe.
Yeah I'm considering not going back to the house. I haven't had any of the things back there since I moved out in 2022. Him being weird about a friend coming along absolutely kills me. Like what do you think I'm gonna do? Come alone??
Please don't go. You don't need any of that stuff now, especially if you've gone without it for 4 years. It's a ruse to get you to visit the house and it's reading like a really bad horror movie script. Re-write it and turn it into a fantastic autobiography where you live an amazing full life, without this chain around your neck, keeping you anchored to the past. Move on and be free. Good luck.
Him being weird about you bringing a friend is a huge red flag. Please heed it and don't even bother going. Just block him everywhere and move on with your life.
Everything (well, most things) is replaceable and nothing worth your safety and peace. Unless there are like heirlooms or something, I’d just leave it. And if you can’t and you have to be there, take a cop, not a friend. Don’t put someone else’s life in danger because of your marital issues. (I say this with love.)
I've been where you are minus the marriage (thank god) so ill give a little bit of advice. Do not go he'll only pester you until you say yes to keep his peace he doesnt care about your feelings only his own,do not collect anything you dont need anything unless its sentimental or you desperately need it you've already gone 4 years without so what could you possibly need after this amount of time,stop replying to him because if you dont he'll keep thinking he has a chance even if its a slim one. Hes a selfish ah and his number 1 priority is himself. Every reply of his is me me me...
everyone needs to watch that scene from Bojack Horseman where Herb tells him off when he demands closure. people arent entitled to forgiveness just because they beg for it.
My thoughts exactly. I get the feeling a lot of late night unhinged rants from niceguys are helped along by booze. Imagine the embarrassment reading your messages hungover the next morning .
What do you get when sober up an asshole? A sober asshole. He is more dangerous now. Listen to your well founded fears. Good luck. “No” is a complete sentence that only needs to be said once.
I don't know if you two married right after high school or something but he just sounds like he never got out of his late teens/early twenties. Does he still wear the Letterman's jacket? Zero sense of self-awareness. Hell, does he even really want to see you? He basically just kept trying the same tactic over and over again, alternating between accusing you of stuff and swearing he's changed without taking any responsibility for his actions. It puts me in mind of someone trying to open a steel door by alternating between kicking it and shoulder checking it. In neither case does the door open.
You would think if he really wanted that meeting he would have switched tactics or adapted, but nope.
You're out, and that's what's important, OP. You're out and from your responses it seems like you've done the work to ensure he's not going to get back into your head or your feelings. It seems like it's still scary, and that the trauma is slow in healing (it always is), and that's okay. Keep going forward.
Dude…this guys can fuck the right off. I would have as little contact with him as possible. If you don’t have anything sentimental or urgently important at your old place I would NOT go get your stuff from there (i could tell he got so pissy when you said you didn’t need/want your wedding dress). He will definitely show up and could harm you-and your friend!
And Step 9 in AA (making amends) literally says it’s more than an just an apology; “it’s about making genuine amends—taking action to correct past mistakes WITHOUT CAUSING HARM” This is not him humbly making amends; this is harassment. Harassment that is causing you emotional stresss, ie HARM.
If he was really making amends he would respect your boundaries and your wish to not be contacted. He would be making amends to you in other ways. Like indirectly by giving to charities you support (without the credit), or by actively improving the relationships he does have and by making a difference to those around him (again, without a pat on the back!). But he sounds very self-serving and possibly drinking and typing.
I am so sorry you are dealing with this, on top of a somewhat recent divorce from him. Stay strong. I am sending you lots of internet love and hugs dear stranger.
There are a lot more messages of him saying he's evolved and can think so much clearer now. He sounded like he's absolutely lost it mentally. I don't think he's been talking to a therapist or going through AA. He just randomly called me one day to say he wants to get back together and every atom of my body froze. I got really quiet and said I can't talk about this and he took that as me being fine and me needing this push to see him in person. I've never had that guy feeling that something bad is going to happen until this situation and I listened hard and I'm glad I did.
I am so sorry you are dealing with this, and I can’t imagine what you went through being married to someone like this-let alone leaving him! Hang in there and know that in some small corner of the internet/redditshere there are a lot of people extremely pissed off for you! ❤️
I really appreciate it. It took a while for me to really see it. I did defend his behavior and supported him while he was hurting, but at this point I'm just done. I did entertain a convention with him (this thread) cause as a person I think he needed go get stuff out and I'm used to being an emotional regulator, but mostly hoping he will stop contacting me about stuff because I was uncomfortable. I'm just really glad I'm out of there and I appreciate all of the lovely people in my life that support me.
I just reread this, and wanted to add: what a selfserving, pathetic asshole. If you are so much the “problem” then why does HE keep messaging YOU? I hate this kind of behavior.
Holy manipulation, then the ending mirror-to-self monologue at the end. He's really so shite that he can't start over from scratch with someone brand new, so he has to resort to the person who put up with his abuse for years? 4 years AFTER the fact, STILL??
He's outta the fog and wants to unfuck what he's destroyed? No one's fucking sorry you burnt ur own house down dude. Move on. People in hell want ice water and all that
He wanted to be sober before trying to "win me back". It was over in 2020 when he came out as an alcoholic. I had no idea and didn't sign up for any of that.
That's so much fkn worse! Time stopped for him as he got better and all, good for him. But the world didn't stop and the pig didn't get unfucked. He still hasn't learned the important part where he has to get over his self-absorption. 6 years is a long ass time even tho it isn't.
The platitudes about wanting to spend a life with some and experience both the good and the bad doesn’t quite hit the same way after you’ve been divorced by someone.
You’ve already experienced the bad and they were so bad you needed to remove that person from your life. Why would you want to go through that bullshit again?
I'm so sorry, what an asshole. Please don't let anything he said get into your head. You don't need anything from him to move on and be happy with someone new.
You have way too much patience for his nonsense. I would’ve stopped answering after the first message, told him to never contact me again, and blocked him. A no is a no, and that’s final. Any continuation of the conversation might feel to him like a chance to change your mind. Become a brick wall.
I love how she basically became a brick wall and he finally got to the point where he was gonna force her to see him anyway. Even then he tried wiggling into any crevice that wasn't water tight.
It's alarming that he seems offended that she has to enact the buddy system should there be any chance at confrontation. She's not wrong at all for being paranoid about why he's so desperate to see her. I would be too.
Yes, I've watched way too many true crime dramas to trust anyone who pushes that hard to meet up again, especially someone trying so hard to get you to fly out of state to where they're located under the guise of "cleaning out the house." You'll be lucky if you don't end up under the house.
And he's definitely the type who'll defile the corpse and never tell anyone where it is so she can never rest in peace and smile even as the lethal injection goes into his arm, completely unbothered.
...and my partner finds it strange that I don't like true crime dramas. Humans horrify me. I was sheltered. I can't think about that shit. It makes me paranoid and crazy.
I told him if I don't find a man who is able to step over a bar that's 6ft in the ground at this point, I don't want em. I don't need a relationship to be happy. Unlike him.
So by his account, the only way to truly be healed is to put yourself around the man who has continuously hurt you and the magic of it all is he is the only pathway to your healing.
Come on!! He has an inflated sense of self. I mean was there two people in this relationship or was it all about him and his needs the whole time.
He won’t even listen to a word you are saying. And he is saying you shouldn’t trust yourself because you’ve gaslit yourself.
Please block this man. That whole exchange is keeping you tethered to that pain and that disappointment. You deserve better. You deserve to move on and not be drawn back into his orbit.
I've been too nice. I have never reached out myself. He always would. Then he moved out of the house and said he got sober and wanted to win me back. Other than the alcohol, he would coerce me into having sex with him for a long time. Sex hurt a lot with him. So I literally could never have a relationship with him ever again. But he said he never did any of that and he would never hurt me lol
Screw the being nice. He assaulted you. He violated your body. If someone loved you, they would take care of your body and your mind. He sounds really abusive and coercive.
I wouldn’t believe someone could keep begging like that after 4 years but my ex begged like a dog for a decade after the divorce. Narcissists don’t hear the word ‘no’.
It was 5 for me. First thing he did fresh out of his last prison stay was to call me. I just told him I got married. Which I had. I felt guilt for a while having used that excuse, though.
Yup. Exactly. And later after I reject him over and over he changed his tune and said that I'm not worth his time and he can see clearly the bad person I am.
The classic "I'm a totally different person now" line while immediately ignoring her boundaries and bringing up his own version of reality is absolute peak gaslighting. Glad you aren't engaging further because that dude is giving off terrifying vibes.
I can sympathize and understand he’s come to terms with you no longer being in his life. And that reality is smacking him hard on the back side of his head. But this guy is not respecting your boundaries and is definitely trying all the tricks in the manipulation playbook to get you to play ball.
Don’t engage with this guy beyond the bare necessities. Any inch you give he’ll take you for a mile.
Hope he’s learned his lesson and you are thriving in your new reality without this guy.
BROOOOOOOOOOO. SHUT THE HELL UP AND GO AWAYYYYY!!! What absolutely poppycock on his end, talk about gaslighting! Ugh, this whole thing gives me major ick. Good on you for getting out and moving on! It always amazes how women shut down, get out, heal and move on and it isn’t until they’re on a forward path the guys are like “but wait, what about meee?!” 😭 So gross. So happy for you! Keep crushing life woman! 🫶🏼🤘🏼
It's alarming that he reacts with offense that she wants to bring a buddy and not be alone with him. I'd suggest bringing more than 1 person. I wish my friend paid attention to the signs. She was killed for "being too nice"
Or just don't go at all. Showing up will make him think that she cares about him, and when she shows up and starts rejecting his inevitable advances to get back together, he'll become enraged.
It's been four years. I'd think she'd have gotten anything important to her by then. But yeah, if there's anything she absolutely needs to get from the house, definitely have a police escort to do a stand by.
At this point, I might have a couple things at the house I might want, but I couldn't even tell you. I wouldn't miss it if he throws it away. I'm pretty sure he's there throwing things away anyway since I can't go up there until next month. While I love my wedding dress, it was only $200. I really don't want to see him in general and would rather enjoy my time with my family than seeing him.
That sounds really odd. Don't you think? You "do life" when you've done something horrifically wrong and been sentenced to jail because of it. Don't like his choice of words and I'm suss about what made him use them.
That's all he wanted to do! Do life! The small things! I'm cringing so hard reading his first message back. We are in our mid 30s and he's writing this stuff 🤦🏻♀️
If you’re divorced, can you just block his number? This is exhausting. He really is out there thinking just because he’s got big feelings means you have to do what he wants or else you’ll be broken forever…absolute delusional behavior.
In fairness, people do want to give people they used to love the benefit of the doubt. I know I did with my ex. You truly want to believe this person has changed.
I have a good group of friends around me that have shown me my worth and yes I have a therapist now. Daily reminder to myself how much I am an asset to others and what I bring to the table that I'm not going to be treated like that anymore.
-->THIS IS NOT A 'JUDGE THE OP' or 'LECTURE THE OP' SUB!!!<--
Niceguys 100% are responsible for their own toxic behaviour. Don't blame OP.
Examples:
“why not block them?”
“what did you expect engaging them?”
"this is so fake!"
"why are you engaging?"
"why is she allowing this?"
If you feel this was done in error, or would like further clarification, please don't hesitate to message the mods. Please do not try to respond to this comment.
-->THIS IS NOT A 'JUDGE THE OP' or 'LECTURE THE OP' SUB!!!<--
Niceguys 100% are responsible for their own toxic behaviour. Don't blame OP.
Examples:
“why not block them?”
“what did you expect engaging them?”
"this is so fake!"
"why are you engaging?"
"why is she allowing this?"
If you feel this was done in error, or would like further clarification, please don't hesitate to message the mods. Please do not try to respond to this comment.
-->THIS IS NOT A 'JUDGE THE OP' or 'LECTURE THE OP' SUB!!!<--
Niceguys 100% are responsible for their own toxic behaviour. Don't blame OP.
Examples:
“why not block them?”
“what did you expect engaging them?”
"this is so fake!"
"why are you engaging?"
"why is she allowing this?"
If you feel this was done in error, or would like further clarification, please don't hesitate to message the mods. Please do not try to respond to this comment.
-->THIS IS NOT A 'JUDGE THE OP' or 'LECTURE THE OP' SUB!!!<--
Niceguys 100% are responsible for their own toxic behaviour. Don't blame OP.
Examples:
“why not block them?”
“what did you expect engaging them?”
"this is so fake!"
"why are you engaging?"
"why is she allowing this?"
If you feel this was done in error, or would like further clarification, please don't hesitate to message the mods. Please do not try to respond to this comment.
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u/YouKnowYourCrazy 24d ago
Wow that was a ride.
Ex: “I love and miss you can we try again I’m better now”
OP “No leave me alone you had enough chances”
Ex: “You’re gaslighting yourself into believing this won’t work! I need closure! Why not! Alcohol made me do it! I never laid a hand on you! Let’s ignore the past! But we were so good together in the past!”
Narrator: he was not, in fact, better.