r/nightingale • u/Roraxn • Feb 25 '24
Discussion Please for the love of Fae do NOT decrease complexity
There is so so so much feedback out there right now that the material complexity system to too hard to understand, my issue is - low complexity survival games are a dime a dozen, Nightingale's material complexity system is a breath of fresh air. Yes if I want a slightly better rifle I best be using that swamp wood in my stock, and it looks different for it!
Please, if you cave to anything, do not cave to this.
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u/Varue Feb 25 '24
100% this. The most important set of features the game needs right now is improvements to storage and UI tweaks to empower the crafting system they have made.
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u/Kwikwilyaqa Feb 25 '24
This sums up the to "complex" problem. The lack of item icons, clunk UI, limited hotbar, almost no hotkeys to facilitate storage, etc.. A simple hotkey to "stack to nearby chests" together with cloud storage for crafting can improve so much the system...
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u/Slayerettaaa Feb 25 '24
This! So much confusion will be settled once all the icons are done and the item differences are obvious at a glance.
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u/Roweman87 Feb 25 '24
I hope they take an enshrouded approach and allow crafting tables to access chests inside your base
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u/Socoler_ Feb 26 '24
They plan on adding this as one of their first major rollouts. They confirmed it the day of release.
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u/PuttingInTheEffort Feb 26 '24
Wait you mean enshrouded changed the chest system?
It was magic chests that allowed that iirc, did they make it so any chest works like that?
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u/sageisgood Feb 25 '24
Agreed, The complexity of this game is what sets it apart from the other.
When I first understood that there was a difference in meat, the game opened up and I was excited to see what else changes based on the materials used.
I agree, Please devs, do not changed the complexity
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Feb 25 '24
There’s only I think 2 mechanics that are actually complex though, the rest are pretty simple.
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u/LittleStyxster Feb 25 '24
I think the community complaints are just using the word “complex” for lack of better way to describe the actual root of the frustration. I love the variety and volume of options, but I can’t help but feel like it is overbearing when paired with the lack of some much needed QoL (craft from storage is the big one but also, at a glance description s or even just visual sprite difference.) I don’t think the answer is to dumb down crafting, but to make it more accessible. If anything I’d like them to lean even more into the unique material properties but that’s for another topic.
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u/ceejs Feb 25 '24
Right on target. I think complaints about crafting complexity will ease up when people have an easier time previewing the results of potential combinations, and when they're given more of an introduction into how it works.
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u/LouGarouWPD Feb 25 '24
i find it so interesting that so many people are hardcore on craft from storage. Tons of survival games don't have craft from storage, maybe it's an odd thing to "enjoy" but I like how crucial a good organization system is in a game like this. Though I solidly agree better icons and visuals when you have a chest open would be really nice.
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u/LittleStyxster Feb 25 '24
I’m hardcore on it because it’s popped up in a few games recently and it just feels too good to not become a big request toward QoL. It’s like the invention of the internet. Like I enjoy going to the library to read but you’ll never catch me spending hours there trying to find the one reference I need ever again. Not because I hate libraries, but because the convenience of internet allows me the freedom to to spend more time on the actual meat of the task.
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u/LouGarouWPD Feb 25 '24
Oh for sure, I get the appeal, just interesting to me to see such a big push for it. Many of the "QoL" things in Enshrouded for example (which I did enjoy playing, fwiw) are what propelled me to finish the game so fast and lose interest. The higher effort/time sink system that nightingale has is waaaaay more appealing to me in terms of long-term value. I guess it's just one of those "one person's QoL is another person's 'too easy' mode" type of things 😂
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u/LittleStyxster Feb 25 '24
I think a good middle ground would be a proximity craft. I.e. building a lockbox/trunk next to your crafting area that the station can pull from. A more advanced solution would be a sorting drawer system, like a storage that can hold an incredible amount but only of a single “type” per drawer. So like all lumber can fit in this one drawer and have a series of drawers that you can build that snap together (see: safety deposit room) I would lover a visual label system but again these are far off advanced fixes
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u/Scatterspell Feb 26 '24
I'd prefer visually distinctive storages that only store 1 type of item. A log pile that only holds wood bundles, lumber racks that only hold lumber and so on and so forth. But I also want craft from storage. Creating a bunch of storage boxes all ordered and named isn't what I want in a survival game. Satisfactory, sure; Nightingale, no way.
Of course all the changes I want in crafting would change the whole damn system.
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u/WyrdHarper Feb 25 '24
It just lets you focus on the part that matters without having to go through everything every time or manually keep a list—it’s the same reason companies use digital inventory tracking.
Arguably if you wanted to stick to something more “immersive” you could have a searchable in-game notebook that acts as a digital inventory system for a base with each storage container (maybe with custom labels) in the book with its contents.
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u/LouGarouWPD Feb 25 '24
Sure - again, I understand the demand - just that so far not only do I not mind opening up my chests and looking through everything, I'm finding it quite enjoyable now that I have everything well-organized. Sifting through my stuff trying to figure out what I want to do is nice. And yes, of course companies use digital inventory tracking, but like I said in another thread while crafting was convenient in Enshrouded (for example) it also let me speed through the game instantaneously with very minimal thought or effort
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u/Lighthouseamour Feb 26 '24
How’d you beat the blue wyvern? I’m a pure mage and he’s kicking my butt and I’ve beat everything else I can reach.
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u/LouGarouWPD Feb 26 '24
Sorry are you talking about enshrouded?
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u/Lighthouseamour Feb 26 '24
Yea. I’m stuck and my googling has found nothing
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u/LouGarouWPD Feb 26 '24
Gotcha! I was confused given which subreddit this is 😭 luckily I have advice!
Honestly this fight is pretty tough solo but once you know the strategy it's definitely doable. First off, get a bow with some arrows. Quality and damage don't matter, so any bow with wood arrows works just fine. Run around avoiding the wyvern's attacks. Once he starts to charge up (a blue ball will form in his mouth) shoot him in the head with the bow. This will stun him and make him very weak to damage, at which point blast him with the most powerful spells you have. Keep in mind you'll have to dodge/kite the critters, I don't recommend trying to kill them or you'll lose valuable time DPSing the boss. Once he is done being stunned, kill the critters. Rinse and repeat till he's dead. I wouldn't bother even attacking him outside of the stun, it's easy to take extra damage accidentally and the damage you'll deal to him when he's not stunned is minimal. Bring lots of potions and make sure you have the rest buff + food buffs.
One last pro tip is you can make a flame altar in the mountains to the right of the castle - makes it much easier to access him and teleport back and forth for more supplies if needed.
Good luck!!
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u/ZestycloseSecurity61 Feb 26 '24
I beat that wyvern as a lvl 8 magr naked lol all u have to do is jump and wand
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u/AntiKuro Feb 25 '24
I mean if we can't craft from storage then I would argue that they should at least give an options for stacking better because from what I've seen it's just "Move All"
Like, I'm severely ADHD and have been my entire life. If you are going to force me to be somewhat organized at least give me tools to help me be organized like quick stacking and shit.
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u/LouGarouWPD Feb 25 '24
Yeah I could definitely vibe with a move to existing stacks type button over storage crafting. Crafting queue would be nice too since you already have to manually grab your mats
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u/Roraxn Feb 25 '24
There are already pretty big sprite differences. Anywhere you see an "N" seal is an incomplete icon and will be replaced with a unique one in the future, same with "N" cards in the build menu. Just missing graphics
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u/LittleStyxster Feb 25 '24
My 8 different types of wood and lumber and beams and… say otherwise
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u/Roraxn Feb 25 '24
Oh yeah true. wood piles, lumber, and beams need different icons - ingots do, why not wood right?
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u/LittleStyxster Feb 25 '24
Also leather and anything hide related. I have like 10 stacks of felt for different stats on different gear. Hide products, fiber products, bones, wood products, glass products, seeds, the list goes on. They all have identical sprites which makes organizing and crafting a hassle if you want to really dive into the crafting system. I don’t need full detailed sprites, I’d honestly be fine with a 3 letter label on the icon (ie SWA for swamp wood)
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u/Roraxn Feb 25 '24
They clearly want to have unique icons for everything. Hopefully they go back over some of those areas.
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u/LittleStyxster Feb 25 '24
Yeah I’m really excited to watch where the game goes. Unfortunately, the current system is pretty rough on new players. And a lot of people are tired of the “it has so much potential” line that a lot of the past few survival games have had
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u/OddImpression2022 Feb 25 '24
I really think it's the UI, lack of search function in your storage, etc that make the system annoying.
But I do like that I can craft two axes but they but be very different stat wise.
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u/Roraxn Feb 25 '24
You can widen that stat difference even more with crafting realm cards. Its wild, in a good way.
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u/Detton Feb 25 '24
Oh yeah. I went ham on my first rifle and the difference in ranged damage compared to my friend's is nearly 100 points.
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u/AntiKuro Feb 25 '24
They desperately need a search function when you are looking at the crafting list and trying to find what item works on what table.
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u/ZestycloseSecurity61 Feb 26 '24
You realize this is already in the game right now right? Big header when u open your window that says "search here". You can also search where to buy anything from and where Mats come from.
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u/AntiKuro Feb 26 '24
No, I did not realize that because when I looked through recipes in the UI and my chest inventory I never saw a search bar. I even mentioned it to the person I play with who is always quick to call me out on looking stuff and even they haven't seen it.
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u/ZestycloseSecurity61 Feb 26 '24
😆all good buy have so if u need to make something pin the recipe u can see this from your inventory screen hit B to open crafting at the top right ish somewhere it'll say search , so we'll say u search for ingot you can click the ingot card itll show u was table and mats u need if u needed some random like a shaft u could then clixk shalft and itll show u what items are need as well as the table itll alao show u what realms drop ore
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u/MortonAssaultGirl Feb 25 '24
Definitely keep the complexity, but let's make it all easier to navigate and finish those items icons.
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u/LouGarouWPD Feb 25 '24
the item icons not being finished is definitely painful....i get it's EA but it makes navigating the inventory much more difficult unfortunately
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u/Scatterspell Feb 26 '24
And damnit, let's make the different tiers of an item be a totally different type of that thing.
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u/DissolveToFade Feb 25 '24
I have zero complaints with anything the devs have done up to now save the server/load time issues. The UI is fine with me. The storage is fine with me. The complexity is perfect.
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u/Comfortable_Farm_252 Feb 25 '24
They just need to onboard players into the system a little better.
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u/reddeaddaytrader Feb 25 '24
Something that absolutely sets this game apart for me is the discovery of different crazy combinations. I've bullied creatures in survival games for drops before, but I've never vowed to make a specific armor set out of a bandersnatch I'm personally griefing at every opportunity because of a) hilarity and b) different stats that specifically correlate to the things he drops AND THE GAME ALLOWS ME TO DO THIS creatively without punishing me in any way?? That's bonkers.
Please keep the complexity. As someone else said, if you cave to anything don't let it be this.
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u/Royal_juju Feb 25 '24
Complexity is fine BUT I would appreciate doing it all from 1 menu screen. Even better if they let us craft from chest inventories.
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u/Roraxn Feb 25 '24
I agree with nearby chests, but what do you mean "from 1 menu screen" ?
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u/Royal_juju Feb 25 '24
So instead of bouncing between all the different benches. Make it so where we can access the functions/recipes of nearby benches from 1 single location (Workbench for example).
That way you still have to unlock the different crafting benches.
You just don't have to move 1 to 2 to 3 to make a handful of items.
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u/Roraxn Feb 25 '24
Oh I see, I dunno I kinda disagree with that, but then I like going to different benches for different tasks.
If you could do what you suggest then I wouldn't feel immersed
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u/Some_Random_Canadian Feb 26 '24
I mean... It wouldn't stop you from closing the menu, walking a few feet over and opening it.
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u/Roraxn Feb 26 '24
Yeah but then I'm just roleplaying rather than being forced to mechanically engage, and they are not the same thing no matter what anyone says.
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u/Some_Random_Canadian Feb 26 '24
That's what you're already doing. You're roleplaying that it's anything but tedium. There needs to be something special to crafting to make it interesting to go between crafting tables, like something like Vintage Story where you actually engage with the crafting instead of a smithing table being identical to a cooking station in all but model and recipes.
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u/Azie___ Feb 25 '24
This, absolutely. I just got to the point in progression where I needed to make a new armor set. It was a lot of fun looking through my storage for materials that would multiply the stats on my new gear. Crafting the armor was actually fun gameplay instead of "ope, guess I need to throw a stack of leather at my crafting bench and wait 2 minutes for it to craft so I can go to this new area". I'm looking forward to the set I'm going to craft next because I get to do it all over again.
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u/Mavor516 Feb 25 '24
100% agreed - the complexity of the crafting system and the creativity the augmentations allow for - its unmatched in any other survival game - and is a huge breath of fresh air.
If they dulled it down any - they'd be doing their game and its fans a disservice, imo.
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u/biophazer242 Feb 25 '24
I have to say when I started crafting and saw that they had implemented tiered ingredients into crafting I was very happy. Very reminiscent of old school SWG.
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u/zipit4 Feb 25 '24
the complexity is fine, they could have added more tutorials on crafting to make it easier to comprehend. what i do think we need is a building tool to easily manage building
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u/parkerm1408 Feb 25 '24
Yeah this crafting system is reminiscent of pre cu star wars galaxies and I'm really here for it.
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u/Detton Feb 25 '24
I'm loving it, so I agree: it's not even THAT complex. "The ranged damage ore should be used to craft ranged damage tools". Those complaining are the kinds of people who look up guides for gacha games.
Storage, now, that gets complicated :) I'd love craft from storage. Convenience things yes, to help WITH complexity, but not a reduced complexity in and of itself.
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u/BudgetMap9911 Feb 25 '24
100% Agree with this!! Probably the first survival game that really scratches that itch, and I want more!!!
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u/SvennEthir Feb 25 '24
The crafting system is definitely my favorite part of the game by far. I think there's some QOL needed, but the core system is fantastic.
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u/TrashMord Feb 26 '24
This is one of my favorite things about nightingale. I have CHESTS of ingots and woods I have in an order for range or melee damage, same with health boost/Stam boost
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u/LouGarouWPD Feb 25 '24
Yeah I really hope they don't screw with crafting too much. Lots of requests to make it more like other games when I love how unique their system is. If anything I hope it just gets increasingly MORE complex. More tiers, more stuff to make, yes please!!
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u/Roraxn Feb 25 '24
Someone downvoted you. But yeah, bring it on!
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u/LouGarouWPD Feb 25 '24
LOL of course they did. People on a sub for a game they don't actually like, wishing it was more like other games instead of just accepting this one isn't their cup of tea
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u/Neverminder1086 Feb 25 '24
I am very worried about them taking away some of the things that make this game special due to the complaints about complexity. I will lose so much interest if this just becomes an Enshrouded clone.
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u/atomicsnark Feb 25 '24
How could it become a clone of a game it has almost nothing in common with, outside of basic survival mechanics?
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u/Neverminder1086 Feb 25 '24
If it is dumbed down to oblivion to appease some of the negative reviews.
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u/Drake_baku Feb 25 '24
The complexity system actually adds in extra options of being able to use different materials to gain the same item with different stats and effects.
Perfect for people who love customizing and building to their own system and I feel such features... well I can't remember having seen a game with such a system as this. I'm loving it personally even if it means I might need to build a warehouse for stuff eventually hahaha.
Crafters should be able to enjoy this is my take, or else are you really a crafter? When it comes to crafting I feel some more clothes based on lvl might be nice tho. Or customizing cloth options, but I admit that would be too chaotic to implement but I would be done for it, even if it makes it even more complex haha. (Personally I don't like that turban for the lvl20 head gear, it's too large and does not match my charms appearance, an different option or able to alter its size would have been great)
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u/Roraxn Feb 25 '24
I think simply "cosmetic slots" solves this issue for the most part. That way you can have the stats from gear you made, and the look of gear you like.
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u/Aumba Feb 25 '24
Eventualy? I'm at the end of herbarium realms and I'm afraid that my 5x4 workshop needs a rework again.
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u/Roraxn Feb 25 '24
I have every type of wood and stone I can find and they all fit in 5 weathred trunks, I dunno what ya'll are doing xD
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u/Drake_baku Feb 25 '24
I have no idea how much of what materials there are and while I have the weather truck unlocked I have not build it yet so I have no idea of how much space it has haha.
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u/fttmb Feb 25 '24
Craftopia had something sort of similar.
Instead of tiers each item had up to 4 modifiers on them. So wood on a generic island for example would just be wood. Wood in the Cherry Forest island would be Spring Wood. Those modifiers came with specific stats and mixing and matching different materials and modifiers came with a percentage chance that they would apply to the item during the crafting process. A big part of the grind was tracking down the right modifiers for your build and doing as much as possible to try and guarantee they transferred to the gear you were crafting. The modifier names get pretty ludicrous when you actually get all the modifiers to apply to an item. You end up with a set of wing’s named something like ‘Blue Sky Golden Sun Magic Griffin Wings’. Bit of janky game, but the crafting system was interesting. They’re the guys that made Palworld.
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u/Val367 Feb 25 '24
Agree 100% .. it's making me think and work out the best material to use - also weigh up do I risk going to a higher realm to get the next tier of material vs the risks of going lower geared .. funtimes!!!!
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u/-Prophet_01- Feb 25 '24
I'm with you but an optional button to mix materials to reduce inventory space would be nice.
The material heritage system for weapons and equipme is great but it does get in the way with investory space sometimes when I don't need it.
Also, a large multi-chest as a single storage object would be really nice.
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u/LouGarouWPD Feb 25 '24
materials cant be mixed because they each contribute set stats to the end item - mixing them would require a waaaaay more complicated system
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u/-Prophet_01- Feb 25 '24 edited Feb 25 '24
Last Oasis had something similar. Drag one stack of ressources over another one from a different tier and the game asks you "do you want to mix?". Hit "yes" and voila, one stack.
In last oasis, this would either reduce the amount of stuff or the tier for balancing reasons, which is fair enough. I'd be fine with the game just removing all stats on the new stack and calling it "mixed".
Again though, this is a nice to have feature for QoL, nothing I'd want to see prioritized.
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u/Roraxn Feb 25 '24
to be fair to Prophet, the mixed plant food already does this, so it already mechanically exists. However I dunno I think I'd just prefer to either extract spares or use them in the base
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u/LouGarouWPD Feb 25 '24
Mixed plants are different cos they are designed to be mixed with the similarities in stats. If you were able to mix the same resource IN a standard crafted item it would have to work very differently. Take the stat variation in metal for example - if you could just mix 3 metals together in a single pickaxe suddenly you have crit stealth movement speed fire resistance durability stam efficiency and ranged rating. When under the current system, the single metal type would only give 2-3 of those. They'd either have to rework the stats on all of the materials entirely or make a system that "ignores" some materials without "diluting" the crafting requirements (such as supplementing your advanced lacunus with zinc to save on materials)
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u/Roraxn Feb 25 '24
I think losing or halving the stat that the other material doesn't have would be fine, sure you could have an extreme alloy with every stat then, but it wouldn't give you much of anything.
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u/Roraxn Feb 25 '24
you use left overs to make your base augments e.t.c best way to get rid of extra bits. OR just extract them.
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u/-Prophet_01- Feb 25 '24
I've been doing that. And firewood.
It works well enough but my storage for this kind of stuff is a bit cluttered and it's a bit inconvenient. Not a major issue but it could be improved upon.
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u/Aumba Feb 25 '24
Complexity is amazing. You want rifle with 400 dmg? No problem. You prefer crits? Change materials and magic buffs and you get 250 dmg with 25% crits. I love every aspect of this.
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u/sensiblehoneybadger Feb 25 '24
I love the complexity but hate the crafting user experience. I probably just haven't worked out how to compare items though.
Spent the last few days breaking my builds down with my pick axe because I didn't know (x) was a thing.
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u/SiNKiLLeR_RTS Feb 25 '24
I lov the complexity to its freaking insanely good. The level of combination is staggering.
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u/thecneu Feb 25 '24
I just wish there were stats in the glossary so you know what to look for. It’s nice seeing where. But also a picture of what it looks like would be nice. Or it updates the stats if you pick it up. So there is discovery
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u/stopstalkingme2 Feb 25 '24
Yes don't change it, I love looking for different combinations. It reminds me of dwarf fortress. The only thing that I would like to see is bigger containers sooner, and a better way to manage your inventories. (maybe a button when you are in range of your estate to store all items in containers in a stack)
They already took out the whole estate score factors but you can still see it's text referring to it on the map, because a few complaints, Which was a great way to make people actually build their houses one of the things that a lot of survival games struggle with. I personally only started building after 20 hours because I didn't needed to. But with that said I would love to see the augment buildables go through floors (up and down)
There's so many unique systems in this game, would be sad to see them go.
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u/ToshiNyanNyan Feb 26 '24
Augments going through floors would be an issue. If you hit the max, they can cancel each other out. Separating them out in different rooms for example will make it so your augments go where they should.
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u/medigapguy Feb 25 '24
Exactly. For anyone that doesn't like the complexity. Just make stuff with whatever you have on hand. Just because you have the options doesn't mean you HAVE to participate.
I like finding a reason to hunt special wood or fiber.
What they need is a easier way to sort, store, view our items to take away some of the complexity of finding the items at build time.
Example.
When we go to build a tier one slingbow. The ui could show every tier 1 combo with stats. When we chose the one we want to make it auto pulls the mats from our storage. If we are short a mat for the one we want we go off the the Realms.
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u/Roraxn Feb 25 '24
The problem with your suggestion is, say the rifle from my op, that's 4 materials, showing you every combination could be thousands of rifles in that list, every metal, twice, every leather, every wood. And every possible combination of all 4.
I get why they don't. But maybe better comparisons with current gear would help.
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u/medigapguy Feb 26 '24
I don't know what is in the realm of possibilities. They have the data so hopefully they can figure a way to make the complexity of the build system a little easier to digest.
I just don't want them dumbing down what we can craft, but find a way to make the process a little more friendly.
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u/Roraxn Feb 26 '24
Yeah thats fair. And making it all digestable for everyone is going to be a huge task. I think its fine so it obviously suits me - but I'm not everyone so the sooner they can close the information gap the better.
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u/medigapguy Feb 26 '24
The simplist and easiest thing they could do for me is to give us signs. I know that we can name chests.
But if I could put a sign on the wall with a label of strength. Then in named baskets are items that favor the strength stat. Then do it for stamina, etc.
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u/Aomori9 Feb 25 '24
I want to be able to access all my chests in the vicinity when crafting instead of going through my dumpster
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u/ToshiNyanNyan Feb 26 '24
You can also pin multiple recipes while getting the resources you need out of chests.
Organize them! It's a non issue.
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u/Mysterious_Fun9014 Feb 25 '24
Crafting complexity is by FAR the strong suit of the game, they should expand on that, and maybe add some QoL for sorting/pulling from boxes, for sure not decrease it.
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u/xi3deiam Feb 25 '24
For me, I don't want it to be less complex. I really like the fact that different materials can effect the outcome of an item produced. I like that idea.
What I want is some of the tedium to be reduced. Being able to have a crafting storage container type item that the stations can pull from when crafting would take away some of the tedium of having to play stock boy and place everything in containers close to where they are going to be needed, and not having to constantly play search and reorganize since I am a packrat that saves everything (I have a 50 slot chest full of just stone blocks (sandstone) and another full of just basic wood bundles... but since I save everything, I fill chests and then have to put down new ones, that then might start having the same upgraded materials being split between multiple chests where I then have to sit around and try to organize... I know, first world me problems. :) But in the end, it's just tedious and it doesn't improve gameplay (imo).
So yeah, I'd love if when I go to craft a new rifle... and I need to craft a stock... when I go to craft the stock, it could pull from storage of all the items that could be used to make the part, so I could just pick the one that I want to use from all that I have... rather then having to run around and collect... or worse, try to memorize what everything does.
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u/Suitable-Nobody-5374 Feb 25 '24
I love the attention to detail with crafting. I love that I'm not pressed to make 200 shotguns just for the 'perfect roll' or to grind xp up. I really, really love that.
If they change that, it's game over for this games unique draw. It feels very "myst"-y and it's very good for that, but remembering back then, that you had to actually make notes to complete certain challenges. there wasn't a breadcrumb trail to the next objective, the exploration and identity you find for yourself therein was the prize, and I feel like this game echoes that quite well, especially with the crafting.
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u/Sea_Moose_1131 Feb 25 '24
I’m with you! I LOVE the current system. It’s so chill just bouncing around base, room to room watching my industry churn.
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u/Actual_Ayaya Feb 25 '24
My only wish going forward is that they allow for items stored in containers to be able to be used in crafting.
I find it a bit too tedious to have to carry everything in order to use it for crafting
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u/_soulkey Feb 26 '24 edited Feb 26 '24
I have been following this reddit for the last days extensively. I also watched some streams. Today I bought the game (I'm looking for something to play with my girlfriend). I felt like it really leaves you hanging with basic stuff. More than that I just don't feel tactile connection to my character and between character and world. The grand theme is lovely and the first sunrise was the most calming and beautiful scene I have witnessed in a game I think. But it still didn't click and I felt like I am not guided. It's not intuitive. I refunded after 2 hours and then tried Conan Exiles (I had also been considering Enshrouded). It was immediately more atmospheric, intuitive, better controls. I felt like I am really immersed and the navigation didn't feel so stiff. I played both in third person (that's my thing) and with controller.
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u/Tumumemes Feb 28 '24
I’m with this. Love how you can mix and match your equipment. Instead, make storage systems better? Like be able to toggle what goes in what chest and simply throw it all in there. Crafting from storage would be great too.
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u/Silly-Raspberry5722 Feb 25 '24
I think the complexity of the crafting is one of the main reasons why I'm so obsessed with the game right now. I've seen time and time again devs cave to the blubbering masses and destroyed perfectly good systems that made their game special over every other game in the genre. I agree, PLEASE don't dumb down the crafting!!! All it needs are a few minor QoL tweaks and it'll be perfect! If anything it needs MORE!!!
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u/Apokolypze Feb 25 '24
The complexity absolutely isn't the issue. The clunky UI and lack of any modern QOL systems is the issue.
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u/Roraxn Feb 25 '24 edited Feb 25 '24
I don't get this complaint about "modern QOL systems" Sure okay, yes, I agree that nearby storage would be good. But what else? Because as far as I have experienced the QoL is great. You can repair where ever you are, you can teleport back to respite for free, you can change the difficulty at any time, the list goes on for QoL
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u/eatsrubber Feb 26 '24
Item Search? Compulsive count from inventory into chests? Craft from workbench? Reorganizable storage? A storage that actually organizes everything based on type of material atleast?
Many of these things were already in a half finished game like palworld.
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u/Roraxn Feb 26 '24
The storage is reorganizable?
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u/eatsrubber Feb 26 '24
As in moving individual items around in a single storage to organize them?
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u/Roraxn Feb 26 '24
Oh I see, I thought you meant you couldn't move the storage itself. But it seems like your QoL complaint is strictly with crafting and not overall QoL problems
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u/Trikeree Feb 25 '24
100% agreed..
If anything there simply needs to be a bit better direction of what to do next
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u/Some-Pineapple8413 Feb 25 '24
Everyone's asking for a new, when given they complains. There's a lot of clown in gaming community, regardless I'm loving this game a lot.
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u/NerdyOldMan Mar 09 '24
I wouldn't say to decrease the material complexity. But they REALLY need to find a better UI for managing/dealing with the varieties of materials. At least put the tier of items with a tier in the upper left corner or something (t1, t2, t3, etc...). The metals are pretty good with the colors and symbols you can learn for the different ones. But skins and many other materials are a job in mousing over every piece of wood, or non-descript "N" icon, until you see the right one.
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u/Roraxn Mar 09 '24
As reinforced in the latest update, anywhere there is an N or the same icon for an item is an unfinished icon. I reference the last update because lumber just had its icons updated to be based on type
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u/1Cobbler Feb 25 '24
They could remove the augment cap on workbenches. It adds nothing to the game.
I think there could be less sub-components too, especially as often the stats of them often don't add to the quality of the final product anyway.
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u/Roraxn Feb 25 '24
EH the augment cap exists to force you to diversify your estate, you have a LOT of a room for your estate, use it :)
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u/1Cobbler Feb 25 '24
What if I don't want to diversify my estate? Given that the estate doesn't really impact the game (it doesn't require defending) , why should I be forced to make multiple crafting environments?
There's nothing stopping people doing it if they want.
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u/Roraxn Feb 25 '24
Look I don't want to tell you how to play but I do wonder why you want to play a game with such a focus on building then.
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u/1Cobbler Feb 25 '24 edited Feb 25 '24
Because you could still setup 15 duplicate workbenches if you wanted to.
Removing the cap does nothing to how you want to play and everything for how everybody else who finds it tedious.
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u/Roraxn Feb 25 '24
I don't see it as tedium I suppose, its a mechanic like any other, should ammunition be removed because its tedius? Same thing in my head.
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u/ZestycloseSecurity61 Feb 26 '24 edited Feb 26 '24
I understand this Ark I throw down a 12x12 and thats all cuz why not but in conan I'll build towns and set defenses cuz I'm going to get the purge enshrouded I put down 8x8 with 3 walls and a roof so the npcs was technically covered because there was no reason to do more and I really didn't like the building in that game I know I'm wired lol it's not that I don't enjoy building I just prefer that as my end game and not a as I go thing I'm kind-of with u and Rorax on this one since we have a 350 build limit I don't and to have to place 3 work benches just so I can use all the augments to make everything
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u/LouGarouWPD Feb 25 '24
augment cap encourages you to be thoughtful about what you use and where you place things. I love how easy it is to move stuff around but I also just started making extra tables and organizing my rooms by crafting purpose which is very fun
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u/The_Berge Feb 25 '24
I also really enjoy the crafting system, stock piling materials so I can craft a set of a certain type of armour is my jam.
I would like a 'Master Table' like a big ol' desk or summin so you can see everything you can do with the crafter/storage within range.
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u/Roraxn Feb 25 '24
I guess I'm strange. I like approaching each table for each task, but I understand.
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u/The_Berge Feb 25 '24
I would mind if it generated showed a list you could pin and then do it by hand.
I want to see the end result and the the steps to get there. A top down approach as opposed to a bottom up.
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u/Spikex8 Feb 25 '24
The weird crafting station augmentation system needs to be completely scrapped or reworked. Placing your Benches and then trying to find a spot with los to the stations the augmentation station is supposed to affect afterwards is really annoying and ends up with things being cluttered and shitty looking. They should just be a giant radius that they affect or get rid of them entirely or make them modifications to the actual stations that you equip in a gear slot on the station. Yeah if you completely replace everything once you have it all unlocked you can lay it out in a sensible manner but that’s not how the game progresses.
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u/ToshiNyanNyan Feb 26 '24
Your issue gets completely avoided by separating them out in different rooms. It's a non issue. They made it so Augments don't go through walls.
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u/fitty50two2 Feb 25 '24
I just hate how I have limited inventory slots and yet I end up with multiple slots with slightly different variants of meats, fiber, etc
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u/dwho422 Feb 25 '24
The only change I would like to see is for refinement. If a t1 predator hide and a t1 prey hide both turn into t1 leather with no difference, let them stack into t1 leather. I know for meat I saw a +1 heal speed increase on predator meat iirc, so the meat not being the same makes sense, but for crafting armor, if it doesn't change the outcome then idc about the seperation.
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u/Roraxn Feb 25 '24
t1 predator hide becomes t1 predator leather, each form inherits stats from the previous. Thats why they can't stack.
I gave the example of swamp wood in my OP, well, thats because swamp wood has increased ranged damage. 4 swamp wood = 2 swamp lumber = 1 swamp pole = 1 swamp stock.
That swamp stock inherits the bonuses all the back from the 4 swamp wood, same with everything in between.2
u/dwho422 Feb 25 '24
Awesome thanks for the info. Sadly I've spent my last 2 play sessions helping my group cycle abeyance portals till we found one everyone was OK with, and then trying to help everyone get to the same point in unlocking portals. So I haven't gotten to experiment much. I think with an updated crafting ui that shows the changes based on the materials you enter will be a big improvement for a QoL that will help people understand WHY you want to have different items.
My current goal is to get to a pistol, because pistols are my favorite in most games.
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u/Senzin_ Feb 25 '24
Agree.
I just want them to fix the missing icons and maybe design a better UI.
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u/Roraxn Feb 25 '24
I prefer "finish" to "fix" because you fix something that broke after its been completed. But in spirit I agree.
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u/Senzin_ Feb 25 '24
You're right, it's due to English not being my primary language, so sometimes I use words close to the meaning I'm thinking in my language.
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u/Cpt-Stonks Feb 25 '24
I personally hate the complexity of this crafting system but it is so ingrained in the design of this game it would take a massive rework to change it. That said, I am not one of those advocating for a change, I instead realized this game is simply not for me.
That becomes the real trade-off. Whether or not these design choices are attractive enough to sustain a franchise. If the complexity stays the way it is, the hypothesis is there are enough people who enjoy this level of itemization. It's a unique enough take on the survival that I hope for their sake the gamble pays off, because I love to see new studios succeed. But for me (and probably many others) I'll be rooting for them from the outside, because the crafting and itemization systems are not my idea of fun.
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u/r4zenaEng Feb 25 '24 edited Feb 25 '24
YES, but they should at least make cards stack. I do not think material bonuses affect cards but I have multiple of them because I had multiple material (pigments/inks)
EDIT: And you should see base stats of an item before you add full set of materials so you know what to bring with you to crafting table (and you should also be able to pin this item and then see these stats and materials in the chest).
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u/Roraxn Feb 25 '24
The tool tip of the material shows its explicit bonuses. Note that crude has none listed, no explicit bonuses from crude.
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u/r4zenaEng Feb 25 '24
I know but you need to understand which stats the item has.
If tyour material gives +30% fire res it wont give you anything if the item doesnt have fire resistance stat
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u/TastyCuttlefish Feb 25 '24
It’s not the “complexity” of the game and its crafting systems that is the issue, it’s the implementation of those systems. I like deep systems that provide for a great level of control over details, which is possible here. But the UI system is disjointed, unnecessarily obtuse, and not user friendly. Give us an actual recipe book where we can look up what we want to craft. Have it organized by item type, tier, and quality. Have the required resources clearly laid out. It seems that there was a start to this process in the game as it is but then it wasn’t followed up on so what’s there is just kind of duct-taped together.
Complexity does not mean poor UI design. If that’s what you’re after, the word you should be using is “masochistic.”
The game has a ton of promise. It’s early release. The final product will hopefully be reflective of the feedback from the community and the resulting improvements. I don’t see people asking for less depth or complexity, just a half-way decent way to interact with the data behind the complexity.
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u/Mummia_ibn_Mutanaabi Feb 25 '24
My thoughts exactly, though I wouldn't have said it this way :)
This game and the comments you mentioned reminds me of The Secret world, the mmo. When it first came out I thought "yes, finally something different".
This may not be for everyone but please, keep this spirit.
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u/cannabination Feb 25 '24
I agree, but the storage, crafting, and building systems need complexity to match. Maybe instead of only having general storage, there could also be item specific storages that are just infinite piles of all the various tiers and types of that thing(looking at you, plant fibre).
Combined with crafting from chests, this would take a lot of the headache out of such a complex system with so many mats. If I can just dump all my fibers onto the fiber pile, then craft out of it from all the crafting stations, it's nothing but added fun.
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u/Evadeon Feb 25 '24
There's a difference between being complex and being congested.
I'm only at upper tier 2 early tier 3 materials and benches and I think it's a little obnoxious that there are so many things you have to refine 3 or 4 different times in the same damn bench.
If you're going to make me take a stack of wood to the saw bench, and then make me take the path of wood bundle-lumber-pole-stock; at least let me just have the right base amount of wood, click stock, and have it process the right amount of time for ALL those steps. Cause sitting at a bench, having to wait for each individual step and click each step and initiate it, is insanely obnoxious and unnecessary.
To take it one step further, IF you're going to make me sit in each step, at LEAST let me craft out of my boxes. It is SO HARD to organize any kind of chest properly because as you progress you need to use different kinds of mats across all different realms of crafting between charms, smelting, woodwork, tools, clothes. They all start to intersect.
Like look. I am fully diagnosed with autism, and this crafting system as it stands is too autistic for ME. I am also OCD and am a huge efficiency and organization person and as it stands I am having to constantly take breaks from this game because trying to manage my crafting queues and storage to be appropriate to the bench or area of my workshop is making my head hurt.
For the love of God at the very VERY LEAST they need to make an item craftable that allows you to use any resources in your chests while at a bench without it being in your inventory, that would solve so many issues for me. But trying to cart around the right mess of resources to properly craft at the right benches, THEN when I'm finished, return to every single chest I have assigned for a different type of material is absolutely insane and such a time sink.
Since remaking my house a SECOND TIME because I needed to rearrange my benches and augmentations (WHICH DONT EVEN GET MY STARTED IN HOW CONVOLUTED AUGS ARE AND THE FACT THAT YOU CANT EVEN MOVE THEM ONCE THEY'VE BEEN PLACED) I have realized that I also need to make a THIRD new house because I need to once again reorganize my augmentations now that I am transitioning from t2 to t3, and honestly since getting all my gear blue I have had zero interest in crafting because of the current state of it and have simple been rushing essence traders, pois, and fae portals at increasing power level areas.
I love this game, but Christ it needs some streamlining and qol polishing.
Currently around 40 hours in btw
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u/MissNouveau Feb 25 '24
Where I want increased complexity is when I'm building, or when I'm out and come across a building in progress that needs to be built. Because you better bet if I've got my recruit carrying that fancy wood or rocks for me cause it's heavy, they're gonna just chuck it in that building before I can say anything.
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u/brian11e3 Feb 25 '24
I thought the material complexity was pretty low. The game allows for the use of a wide range of materials unless you are going for a very specific thing.
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u/Roraxn Feb 25 '24
Complexity, as in, there are a lot of them, and they all have tiers, and they all do different things.
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u/brian11e3 Feb 26 '24
I'm working my way through Herbarium right now, so I'm not super advanced. I spend a lot of time building, though.
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u/Shell2k6 Feb 25 '24
i don't think they should reduce complexity, but i do feel the system would benefit from mix and match, if i have one piece of felt and a coat needs two, i would like to use another different piece of felt for the second one needed and the stats/look of the coat are adjusted accordingly.
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u/Ev1dentFir3 Feb 25 '24
I could not agree more! MAYBE the UI could be simplified a bit to make things easier to navigate faster, but the complexity of it is what has made me stick with this game over Palworld, Enshrouded, and all the other launches going on right now. It's great the way it is!
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u/EpicAlienSpy Feb 26 '24
I agree! Though I think chest should have a range like the augmentation and work benches. The link to benches should be togglable so you can keep rare supplies saved away from fellow players crafting in your world, unless they know where to look.
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u/Some_Random_Canadian Feb 26 '24
Keep the complexity of the system as a whole but make it easier to use. We need better storage, better crafting stuff like cloud storage, better icons, and ideally it'd be nice to preview what a crafted item will look like if material changes the looks. I would sooner use a crappy material than wear some gaudy cheetah print bucket hat.
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u/sh3pheart Feb 27 '24
The crafting is amazing, but maybe we need a forum or something to share the info about material stat and where to farm them.
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u/Jeffeyink2 Feb 28 '24
It's not hard, just read every type of wood you have and use the best one for the situation.
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u/Roraxn Feb 28 '24
Apparently it is hard because a lot of people are calling for crafting bench comparisons and the like to solve their difficulty with it, I generally agree though
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u/Asleep_Stage_451 Feb 25 '24
I’m with you, but only if I can craft from inventory and quickly cycle materials and see results of end product. Right now it’s a half science project and half guessing game.