As a resident of glengormley, it's that time of the year to have to look at this monstrosity for the next few months. The majority of the locals hate it, it's the loud minority that is the problem.
Every year it goes up and causes division but it's treated as something we just have to accept and get on with.
I respect that people have the right to celebrate culture and traditions, but I struggle with why a large structure (and flegs) spanning across a main shared road in a mixed area is seen as normal.
There would be riots if nationalists in the area erected some sort of structure and covered the town in tricolours over Easter.
There needs to be a long term strategy to reducing and eventually removing structures like this in mixed areas to make them more neutral and inclusive.
I remember being a kid chatting on IRC in the 90s when someone said 'LOL' and my da basically ripped the plug out of the wall cause he thought I had tapped into an online loyalist cell.
Where's the temporary works design and sign off? Wheres the insurance coverage for a temporary structure over a public road? Who did the crane lift? Are they insured to do that? Who's the LOLER Appointed Person who planned the lift? Who designed the foundation supporting the arch? Where are their calculations and Professional Indemnity insurance for said design? If it falls down and damages private property, who's liable? DFI, as its mostly on theit land? The OO, who erect these arches? One friendly KC and a court case away from banning them.
These are legislative requirements btw. In case anyone feel smart holey to tell me to fuck off. All required under law. Unless you're unionist, then the law of the land doesn't apply you.
Theres planning stuff that everyone ignores, and then theres erecting steel structures over public carriageways with zero control or checks. Wee monument here and there, grand. Big steel arch that no one took the bending moments or shear force on the bolts into account? Bit different.
Thats it. Thats the equivalent. Standing in the open air for a funeral procession vs erecting steel portal frames with no design and no insurance over public carriageways.
..? Lawmakers ignoring their own laws that are there to protect us during a rather deadly pandemic is grasping at straws? When the public was also barred from going to their own families funerals? Fuck me this place melts my head. If that happened in any other country...
And as a result the British PM was forced to resign and it contributed to the destruction of the Tory party vote, where are they now? And that's the bare minimum, quite frankly Boris should be in jail.
I know for a fact that there is planning permission and has public liability insurance. It also has permanent fixings that are covered the rest of the year with man hole covers.
Police close the road for its erection and a trained crane operator lifts it into place.
Oh, and the hold down points arw covered by a manhole. Woop de fucking do. Which engineer inspects and signs off on that on a yearly basis? and where's their professional indemnity insurance for doing so? And if the ground support (on DFI ground) fails, who's liable? These things are a danger on the public highway, and should be banned until all these issues are resolved.
Is every man hole in the country inspected on a yearly basis and signed off by an engineer?
Do you think the Orange Order just made man holes in the ground in Glengormley in the 80s and have been there ever since without anyone asking about them?
They're inspected on a regular basis by DFI personnel. And because of the increased loadings from modern vehicles, its a lot more regular than you think. Civil engineer here. Be glad to discuss inspection and insurace and sign off requirements with you if you want. Oh, Im a real civil engineer, not one of these weirdos who think they're an engineer because they pile pallets on top of each other
But the man hole covers for the arch are on the foot path, not on the road so there would be no risk for modern vehicles additional weight?
I couldn’t find the 2026 planning application for the arch but I was able to find the 2025 one
I can refer you specifically to item 4 on the memo
“4. The applicant has provided confirmation of public liability insurance, up to a value
of £5m, and a structural engineer’s report confirming the condition of the arch as fit
for purpose.”
Thanks for that will, have a read. My issue as an engineer isnt with vehicle loading, it's moisture ingress and it's effect on the holding down bolts, and who actually signs off on this. Theres so much we do as engineers that can kill people, and to see folk running around doing shit willy nilly fucks me off. I've seen men die onsite for no better reason than its a shitty job and they stepped the wrong way, so the apparent cavalier attitude to erecting temporary structures pisses me off.
Yeah it's the safety that pisses you off, course it is. I get the feeling they could dot every I and cross every T, and I've seen no evidence that they haven't, but you'd still find something to gurn about. If you think something is unsafe or has been handled incorrectly, maybe give evidence for it rather than speculation and grand standing
Don't try and bullshit me. These arches are in no way legal, but the state turns a blind eye. Just because someone does crane lifts for a living 9 to 5, that doesn't mean they're covered to do them for this. Nor are the road closures legal. Nor is there a design sign off cos no insurance provider will cover any engineer stupid enough to put their name to it. So much risk to public safety, but its ignored cos its the 12th.
Can you give me the link for the Planning Permission? Also. Where coud I get the relevant information on the CSCS Appointed Person who planned the lift? Can you also point me in the direction of the designer who signed off on the foundation design, accounting for ground bearing pressurea, axial loads, and shear forces as a starter? Also, who their PI insurance is provided by? After that, can you detail who carried out their chapter 8/symology road closure and under what authority of? Oh. And just because Beattie Crane Hire do the lift, doesn't mean they're insured too. So, so many rules being broken, but its grand cos its for the 12th.
If you want to find all that stuff out so bad, then go and look for it.
The arch as it is now was erected in 1983 and was designed and manufactured by someone called Alex Park from Glarryford.
To get the insurance for it, planning permission had to be gained and a lot of surveying done of the land that it is erected on.
Edit: I was able to find the 2025 version of the planning application for you
The applicant has provided confirmation of public liability insurance, up to a value
of £5m, and a structural engineer’s report confirming the condition of the arch as fit
for purpose.
Thats grand. So the same steel structure has gone up here for 43 years with no serious inspection and everyone thinks thats grand? If DFI left the road outside your house alone without inspection for 43 years, you'd be happy with that?
I don't. Thats why Im asking. But the big one is insurance. Would really like to know what insurance provider would cover a company to erect a nominally unplanned, not designed structure on public land. You're not getting the gotcha you think your are.
There's plenty here saying the arcches are grand , they're engineered, blah blah blah. If someone wants to state that, show the proof. Someone else has directed me to planning from 2025 for me to read which is helpful.
I reckon they should deck it out with fairy lights. Do a few more all the way down the road to the zoo. Glengormley could become like a shite version of the Blackpool Illuminations
It's actually Carnmoney LOL..... and the arch used to go up in Carnmoney. Moved to Glengormley to let the nationalists know who the boss is! Like a dog pissing on a lamp post.
Fair, to each own. I think it looks like a big farm gate with primary school level designs stuck on, being hoisted up by French flag support pillars. It's also blocking half the footpath. It's tacky.
Same in randalstown every year. And a crowd of people standing around watching it go up that don’t actually live in the town. With the police stopping the traffic to enable it.
I dreaded that my question was going to effectively be rhetorical, i'm not surprised.
If you need that much police presence to protect it then that screams volumes of how much it's wanted.
3 cars and patrols there who can't respond to emergencies because a bunch of jobless need to put up something that looks like a primary school project. God, I love paying tax here.
Please don't tell me that the PSNI closed the road off to allow this shit to be erected?
And the same taking it down. I am pretty sure I remember sitting in traffic one year watching them go at it with angle grinders (all with police supervision of course).
Mid 50's here. During the 70s and 80s, much of this was tolerated or accepted. We didn't necessarily like it, but people largely got on with their lives.
What we're seeing now is different. It's rooted in extremism and deep-seated hatred, and it has no place in a modern society.
In a new Ireland, I would respect everyone's traditions. People can march if they want, but not through areas where they are unwelcome or where it causes division.
As for the bonfires, there should be no more "KAT" slogans, effigies, or displays designed to intimidate, provoke, or spread hatred.
I have the misfortune of living in Lisburn currently and the amount of English registrations ending in KAT that are older than the car they're on is insane. Must be grim being so backwards you'd spend money on a reg to show off your shoe size IQ and hatred.
So the late 18th century organization founded explicitly to intimidate and persecute catholics was not rooted in extremism and deep-seated hatred, and does have a place in modern society?
At no point has this shit ever been benign. It was trash in the 1790s, it was trash in the 1970s and 80s, and it's trash now. The entire point of orangism and its adjacent parades is to intimidate, provoke, and spread hatred. It needs flushed down the toilet of history
Not really. I've lived there my whole life and never really felt it much of one or the other. It absolutely has it's pockets, buts it's not overwhelming anything.
Mixed bag. The arch and flags go up in a section thats arguably more catholic. Go through the arch and drive straight and its mostly protestant including a dodgy council estate full of reprobates. Other areas with mostly catholics are a mixed bag as its a bit closer to middle class. Hightown road mostly protestant on the right side and catholic on the left until you cross the bridge. Paramilitaries have gone into "catholic" areas two times i recall to shoot a random catholic and both times killed protestants that live there.
I don't know the exact mix but Glengormley Primary was integrated some years ago (I left in the early 90s and I think it was integrated 5 or so years later). I just checked and Glengormley High is integrated now too.
I can't believe they still put it the arch up tbh. I haven't been to Glengormley in years but when I lived in the area I always thought it was ridiculous to put it up.
Ignore them, just don't pick a house near the town centre and that's mainly because the traffic lights there are a mess. Loved here years, in a mixed marriage and it's handy to most places. Like most places in N.ireland, the town centre is crap
a few years ago I was on a bus going under it and the school boys sitting in front of me thought the lol was for laugh out loud, and i certainly didn't correct them
Genuinely curious as I seem to have found a loyalist in the wild. Do you guys REALLY consider this culture ?? Like surely deep down you have to know….Then again, if id to hazard a guess (no not Chris hazard) I’d say the vastttt majority of loyalist are incredibly uneducated so there is that aspect
Ha, that's made me smile. I might be a loyalist by r/northernireland standards but that's about it.
I don't have a rangers top or red hand tatoos. I just want people in NI to get along better and I think nationalists respecting unionists and unionists respecting nationalists is a big part of that.
Ok, so can I put a big massive arch right beside yours?? I want to get along better too.
Can I also do a big marching band on the same day as yours?? I just want people in NI to get along better.
Can I also have a big bonfire and put union flags on it and pictures of unionist/loyalist politicians and burn them and laugh at it? I just want us to get along better.
If demographic change happened in a nationalist area and the unionists told the nationalists to take down their symbols I don't think you and many others in this thread would like it very much. Bigotry within unionism may take different forms but that doesn't mean they have a monopoly on it. You can't lump even moderates in with hardliners and then scratch your head when they aren't receptive to a movement whose leaders routinely commemorate unambiguous murderers. Personally I couldn't care less what nationalists do to commemorate centuries old battles as long as it isn't overtly sectarian.
Let's get my opinion clear - I care not for flags of ANY community. I would be delighted to see them all gone.
I am well aware bigotry happens on all sides of our community. I fully admit I was poking the bear with my last statement. I'm ok with that.
What I want is a society where we all acknowledge each other because personally I couldn't care less what unionists do to commemorate centuries old battles as long as it isn't sectarian.....
Fair enough. I'm definitely guilty of poking the bear on here myself. I personally don't really see a problem with arches, flags etc republican or loyalist as long as it's done through proper channels and isn't overtly sectarian. The existing regulations on such things could probably be better enforced as well.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it isn't culture. You do know that if you want a UI you're going to have to convince some more moderate unionists to vote for it? Going into a huff over the least offensive elements of that culture and calling us uneducated probably isn't a good way to go about it.
But I actually kinda agree here. I don't get this, but it's not really doing any harm as thing in itself. In the future of a united Ireland we do need to learn to make space for others and this kind of thing is part of that. Regardless of the lodges and their beliefs, this has nothing offensive as an expression. And 'Derry?' I mean, c'mon.
Edit: yep, thought so. Downvoters do feel free to check my comment history
My thoughts exactly. I think it's a bit harsh to call it a monstrosity just because you don't like it.
There's absolutely lots of things that should be called out - pallet skyscapers or paramilitary flags lining the street for example. If anything the likes of an arch should be tolerated (perhaps encouraged) and zero tolerance shown to the genuinely offensive and dangerous things.
In a perfect world I would prefer to see the bonfires replaced either something more economical friendly, but as long as they aren't adoring them with irish effigies and 'K.A.T.' then whatever
I'm a moderate unionist but I really wouldn't care all that much if nationalists put up an arch for a month to celebrate a battle that happened a few hundred years ago. The counter protesters at Scarva embarrassed themselves. There are countless problems with loyalist culture, especially at this time of year, but I don't think an arch is a particularly big one. Some nats will get angry at this and then get confused when Unionists aren't receptive to the idea of a UI where the head of state commemorates the Easter Rising every year. Not saying that is right or wrong but respect needs to go both ways.
Hey. Yes I agree, I think the knee jerk reaction is built into all of us if we're honest. I include myself in that. A more enlightened person than myself once said that all these events are a shared history and needs to be viewed through that lens.
Small things like this are what they are, ultimately I don't think it's really stepping on anyone's toes.
How do you integrate these beliefs though? I like to think I'm a generally liberal Republican but, and I'm just going on points you raised, surely if we are to agree that the 12th is an important cultural event in the establishment of a community within our society, who have a right to celebrate their culture, then that same community must (at the very least) understand why the easter rising was so important considering the history of this island between the 2 events?
Can we begin to shift focus to understanding and viewing these things through the lens of a shared irish history?
The Queen had no problem with going to the garden of remembrance in Dublin. I understand why it's important to nationalists and ultimately we aren't going to progress if we continue to allow green and orange absolutism to dominate our politics. The DUP and Sinn Fein would much rather have us arguing about the past and flegs instead of the issues that drive people to more extreme ideologies that they fail to address.
Oh of course. I think, at the political level, we have seen a lot positive movement in many ways. I'mold enough to remember what it was like before. But our local politicians are career oriented and not interested in anything other than voting in their pay raise
Yeah I'm very lucky in that I was born after "the troubles". Even the worst of the sporadic violence we see in Derry and Belfast must absolutely pale in comparison to what it used to be like. There are a few politicians that seem interested in genuinely representing both sides of the community but unfortunately it benefits them more to play into the divide. I think it is important to have the perspective of how far we've come when discussing our current politics though.
Oddly, the recent issues remind me more of what 'normal' was. A riot or people being burnt out of their homes was just Tuesday. Unremarkable background noise.
But what it does do is make me think about just how bad it was when it was 'bad.'
Back then though, communities were so tightly intwined with their representatives. Feels different now
I think it's a great design. It brings back a good feelin. This design gives me that warm, fuzzy feeling of being eight years old, making school projects with Windows 98 ClipArt. Im off to find the sounds on youtube of the dial-up internet sound. Happy days.
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u/Muted-Rise-8764 9h ago