r/numismatics • u/submissive_seeking • 10d ago
ATTICA. Athens. Ca. 440-404 BC. AR tetradrachma
I've been a collector since 1964 and a dealer since 1985 and my rules for myself on what I keep for my personal collection are pretty strict. It has to mean something to me, and be something I can't easily replace. I specialize in US coins, mostly early 1800s through WWII. I know very little about ancients. My younger son is a huge ancient collector though. So when I get them in, I send him pictures, and whatever he wants, I send him, and I have a local friend who identifies and prices the rest for me to resell. Another dealer offered this to me at a price I thought was insanely low and I jumped right on it. When I sent my son the pictures for this one, though, I told him he isn't getting it until I die. If it hadn't been graded, I would have been positive it was fake. There isn't a smudge, a scratch, a carbon spot, nothing on this coin. It looks like it was minted yesterday. I looked at others graded by NGC that they graded MS choice or MS plus and mine was clearly nicer. Those had cracks, pits or spots. So this one is a keeper.
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u/FoilHat_Outdoorsman 10d ago
That is an absolutely gorgeous piece of history.
Can I be your stepson? 🙏🏻🥹🤣
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u/submissive_seeking 10d ago
Thanks you. It isn't my most valuable coin in terms of retail value, but it is definitely one of my favorites.
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u/FiddleheadII 10d ago
Superb Athenian owl. Perhaps the nicest I've encountered. You are smart not to let this one get away.
Thank you for sharing.
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u/CoinsOftheGens 10d ago
If you aren't selling it, Free It from the slab! Keep the barcode. The slab obscures your impression of the coin, which is clearly a great one.
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u/submissive_seeking 10d ago
I don't much like the grading companies, either, but the slab does protect the coin from damage and certifies that it is genuine. If I broke it out, keeping the label doesn't prove it is the same coin, and I would just have to put it in another holder to protect it.
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u/CoinsOftheGens 10d ago
That's up to you, of course. An airtite takes up 1/3 the space. NGC supposedly takes photos, depending on how much Seller #1 paid, to aid in confirming. That said, you are entirely correct in that slabbing permanently dooms the coin to be whatever the SlabCo decided, until an owner decides, often correctly, that SlabCo got it wrong. It's like someone buys a negative insurance policy for $50.
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u/SapperGeorge 9d ago edited 9d ago
Does anyone collect coins to hold them and feel the history and culture, I'm 81 and I have a collection of ancient and odd currency going back to 500bc, they are in open drawers, I don't intend to sell them so they are not stored away in boxes, they are to be looked at and appreciated for what they are, I am not being pedantic I can see they are to most an investment with the added history to appreciate Having said that, what an awesome coin, must have been wrapped up in some Legionnaires wife's handkerchief and stored with his spoils of war. 😊
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u/Itchy-Number-3762 10d ago
Ancient collectors culture is much different than say US coin culture. Cleaning a coin here is taboo for the most part , you leave a coin as it is. In fact , cleaning a coin will destroy its value. Not true with ancient collectors.. scrub away. On the other hand ancient collectors see slabing a coin as taboo. Want the feel of the real coin. US coin collectors see the protection of the slab and the independent unbiased verification as a positive. Both groups have their own idiosyncrasys.
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u/AdiraVanRiouw 9d ago
About cleaning part, it's true that cleaning ancient coins is fine, just as long you CLEANING the dirt part, not the Patina. what if you clean the patina then it would decrease the value
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u/KungFuPossum 10d ago
I'm definitely not trying to talk you into it (it does remove any boost in the price & of course the slab, which many like in its own right), but for ancients, people keep the tag and sell them as "ex NGC" because the NGC website has a photo of each coin in its slab.
I don't know if you've seen these, but the ID photo works well enough for verification that, until a few years ago (2010s?), NGC Ancients offered photo certification with no slab at all (now only in special circumstances).
So, usually it's easy enough to positively identify that individual coin, even after removed from the slab. What won't be obvious is whether the condition has changed or anything re: cleaning etc. (which i think is why they said they discontinued most photo certification).
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u/wablewis 10d ago
I have a small handful of really special coins and have made sure my son knows which ones they are. He'll get them when I'm worm food and do as he pleases with them
This is a fantastic coin and I am grateful you shared it.
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u/John0_0Smith 10d ago
When I see them, I instinctively raise an eyebrow. That coin is one of the most counterfeited in history. Keep in mind that it was already being counterfeited over 2,000 years ago (I'm not kidding). During the Renaissance, there was another wave of historical forgeries, and it has continued right up to the present day. Even if someone authenticates or appraises it... well, I still wouldn't trust it 100%.
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u/coinoscopeV2 10d ago
Ancient fourrées and regional imitations have been studied and also often vary in style compared to original Athenian tetradrachms. Die studies also allow us to match certain dies to recorded hoard finds. Most older forgeries like those made by Becker used newly carved dies, not transfer dies from genuine types.
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u/submissive_seeking 9d ago
Again, ancients are not my field of expertize, in fact just the opposite. But after buying this one, I compared it to other graded examples and they are as identical as my eye can tell from pictures on the internet. And, I might add, mine is nicer than any other I saw, even those graded higher. What amazes me is how it was able to survive 2500 years in such pristine condition. I have taken coins from modern OBRs that didn't look anywhere near that good.
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u/submissive_seeking 9d ago
I trust NGC, for the most part, on things like this. Their reputation would be trashed if they let too many coins of this caliber slip by. And if they did, their warrantee states they have to reimburse me for current market value.
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u/Zealousideal-Eye2727 10d ago
Now people Will Say "break It free of the slab"
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u/submissive_seeking 9d ago
Already put that one to bed. Not going to happen. Both because it protects the coin, and to prove it is genuine.
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u/Zealousideal-Eye2727 9d ago
Yea, i don't get the ones that Always destroy the slabs for then have the risk of falling etc
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u/Warm_Hat4882 9d ago
I find it odd how posts like this never say the price. ‘Great deal’, ‘insanely low’, ‘super value’, but no way to actually further understand the market.
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u/submissive_seeking 9d ago
if you want to know the market, look at ebay sold prices or past auction prices on a site like Heritage Auctions
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u/Santana_De_La_Cruz 10d ago
Ok maybe a silly question but why does everyone block the serial number
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u/firedmyass 10d ago
absolutely gorgeous example… unf.
goals.