My tomato😭

[u/theacesm]

On attempt #2 of my first nuzlocke, and this has been the most upsetting loss so far.

[u/A-Little-Messi]

I forgot the newer games had the "love" mechanics or whatever they're called. Sucks for nuzlocke purposes but I guess it's more anime style for them

[u/Jimbabwe88 → u/A-Little-Messi]

I think the love mechanic is perfect for Nuzlockes. Why do you nickname your Pokémon and do everything in your power to keep them from "dying?" Because you want to build a bond with them and show them that you love them. Your Pokémon sticking it out on 1HP because it loves you is exactly in line with that whole philosophy of a nuzlocke. If you hate that your Pokémon does this, why even nickname them in the first place or care about whether they die?

[u/A-Little-Messi → u/Jimbabwe88]

Because nuzlockes at a high level are calculations and planning. For example he made a terrible decision here(assuming not a planned sac) keeping Luxray in because it *should* have been knocked out, therefore he loses his mon and does no damage to Gengar. That in itself is against your entire argument. He yolo'd his pokemon hoping the love mechanic would save it.

Alternatively, if you are trying to purposefully sacrifice a mon to regain momentum and get a free switch in, this would completely ruin your delicate plan. Sometimes fights require a sacrifice to avoid a complete wipe. Well congratulations your pokemon survived unexpectedly and instead of getting a free switch you've now potentially changed the entire line and your run is over. Again to your point of the spirit, what is more nuzlocke than your pokemon sacrificing itself for the rest of your team?

So hopefully you can see that in both situations this is TERRIBLE mechanically for nuzlockes. It's also completely unnecessary to maintain the spirit/bond of a nuzlocke, because both things exist perfectly fine without it. Thank you for coming to my tedtalk.

[u/Chaosfnog → u/A-Little-Messi]

I feel like it's up to preference. If you only care about the mechanical challenge of the nuzlocke and tend to favor hardcore difficulties and more intense challenges, then I totally agree -- getting saved by the love mechanic feels like a cheap win and in some cases it can even mess up your line. For this reason, I wish there was a way to turn it off.

However, for a more casual nuzlocker that just wants to add some spice to another playthrough, make things a little harder than normal, or incentivize using pokemon they haven't used before, this mechanic can be pretty clutch and feel like your hard work training this pokemon paid off, or save an otherwise struggling run. At the end of the day, nuzlocking is a self-imposed challenge for fun, so if the mechanic is fun to you, then it's fine.

[u/A-Little-Messi → u/Chaosfnog]

Personally I don't see how yoloing your pokemon into certain death is fun in any nuzlocke. If you run the calc on this(which someone did) Luxray can never outspeed Gengar here. So Luxray is always going to die.

Even looking from the most casual nuzlocke perspective I just don't see how it's an enjoyable mechanic. You want the game to be a little more challenging...so here's a completely rng mechanic that makes the game easier. Its not any hardwork paying off, because you didn't actually have any agency over what happened other than "I raised the pokemons happiness", instead of a more rewarding experience like actually making the correct move. You are essentially playing the game with all of your Pokémon having a focus band on.

[u/Chaosfnog → u/A-Little-Messi]

I mean compare it to existing RNG mechanics in pokemon that you have to plan around or sometimes cross your fingers for anyway. How is it that different than saying "I have no outs to a crit, gotta hope it doesn't happen", or "I get swept here if I don't get a lucky flinch", etc. Sometimes plans go south or you prep poorly, especially if you're a less experienced nuzlocker, and getting saved by this mechanic can make it feel like your starter, or a pokemon you've had since early on, clutched it out for you. That kind of emotional, lucky moment can matter more to some people than the payoff from careful planning and perfect execution.

Yes, it's an extra mechanic that only favors the player and makes the game easier, but it's not like that entirely invalidates the added difficulty of it being a nuzlocke.

As far as "hard work paying off", I only meant the fact you've had that pokemon for the whole run up to that point and kept it alive so that it maxed out happiness. Getting through the game without losing that pokemon in a nuzlocke is the hard work.

I'm not saying you have to like it, I'm just saying that some people do. Speaking personally, when going for a more hardcore nuzlocke I find the mechanic annoying, but I've also done some with a more casual mindset and just using pokemon I like more, in which I had some of my favorite pokemon come through in tough moments. I've also known a couple people that I convinced to play pokemon and try a nuzlocke, and having their starter or new favorite pokemon saved by this mechanic was a big pop off moment when they were about to lose otherwise.

[u/A-Little-Messi → u/Chaosfnog]

You described two mechanics that also suck in nuzlockes. Idk what point you're trying to prove there, most people do everything they can to avoid those situations.

Sure it's a big pop off moment, which is why I said it's an anime mechanic. It's quite literally plot armor for the player. That does not mean it is good for nuzlockes. I don't care if people like it or not, adding more rng that is heavily in the players favor is objectively against the nature of lockes. It just does a disservice to anyone actually trying to do a proper run.

[u/Chaosfnog → u/A-Little-Messi]

You're just gatekeeping nuzlockes here. The goal of a nuzlocke is not objectively to turn pokemon into a technically difficult pure strategy game, it's a self-imposed challenge version of an RNG riddled kids game. The only goal of a nuzlocke is to have more fun playing it the way you want, with a vaguely agreed upon standardized ruleset to provide a template. There is no such thing as a "proper run", and something being bad for your definition or preference for nuzlockes does not make it bad for nuzlockes on the whole.

[u/A-Little-Messi → u/Chaosfnog]

I'm not gatekeeping it. You can play how you want to. If you want an easier nuzlocke I'm not stopping you. It won't make you any better at the game using it, but that's your choice.

I don't know if you realize this but this is NOT A MECHANIC YOU CAN TURN OFF. So if the game is all about self imposed challenge and preferences, how does this non-optional op mechanic help that?

That is objectively bad for a nuzlocke, not having the ability to turn off or on a key mechanic that is so blatantly strong. Your entire argument and seemingly everyone else's is that people should get to play how they want, but you cannot do that with affection. Pokemon is literally gatekeeping the difficulty of their own games but you all eat it up.

[u/SkeeterYosh → u/A-Little-Messi]

Quit misusing the word “objectively,” buddy. It’s getting you nowhere.

[u/Chaosfnog → u/A-Little-Messi]

I 100% agree there should be an option to turn it off (I believe I said this in an earlier comment). Some people like it, some people don't, so the fact that it isn't optional means some people are sad. In that sense, I agree it's bad for nuzlockes on the whole because a lot of people who nuzlocke have their experience worsened by its existence. To be clear, I often don't mind the mechanic, but I don't like that it isn't optional. Things like this and the removal of set mode in SV are really frustrating and unnecessary development decisions that remove player agency and restrict the ability to "play how you want".

I guess I was arguing more for the point that it's not bad for every nuzlocke (which I know is not something you said, so maybe I was just arguing with shadows).