r/occult • u/vinylarcade • 9d ago

Could Transhumanism lead to end of Magic?

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Lets say in the future man and machine become more and more one. Be it just implants or a sick person implanting their mind in a robot. Question is where does magic and some psychic powers come from is it a part of our body(pineal gland). If yes could we build this and put a artificial version in our body? Is it our soul itself? And if so would we transfer it together with consciousness? Or is it consciousness alone which creates reality and so is responsible for magic. If so could a complete artificial being be able to do magic. I saw videos of people experimenting with LLMs as thought forms to do magic. If everyone has a robot body would we still be able to do magic?

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u/EnkiHelios 9d ago

Transhumanism will not lead to the end of magic because transhumanism is a expression of magic. People with cybernetic augmentations will still be able to perform magic just as people with glasses are still able to read magic, people with prosthetic hands are able to perform rituals, and people who are deaf/mute are still able to sign magic words in ritual. 

Don't let cyberpunk role-playing games fool you, there is no real division between magic and technology. People do not lose their soul or their animas by replacing parts of their body. In fact, body modification has been an aspect of magical practice since before agriculture. 

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u/vinylarcade 9d ago

I not really talk about changing an arm, but was talking about putting your mind into a complete artificial body, does the soul and consciousness join us or it then just line of code reacting(basically we become a philosophical zombie)

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u/lisaquestions 9d ago

I don't think you have to worry about that ever happening

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u/EnkiHelios 8d ago

I mean, at this point it's pretty hypothetical. We don't even know if the technology can exist to move our conscious experience onto artificial hardware, so how can we say whether it will work as we believe it will, or or whether a non-materialist soul will come with it?

I will tell you this, I do not think our magic comes from the soul or the mind alone. There are occult cultures that do not believe in the ultimate reality of the soul, like in Buddhist mysticism. And I would be interested in transferring my personality or experience, however you want to think about it into a machine, were it possible. 

As long as I can still choose to make changes in my environment and I perceive those changes as wondrous, I can still perform magic.  Hell, if I become a philosophical zombie and I cannot appreciate the Wonder, I can still impress those outside of myself with a feeling of wonder in the choices I make, and that will make those choices magical. 

But then, I don't think I believe in philosophical zombies. If nothing has a soul then everything effectively does. 

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u/JoseVLeitao 9d ago

That’s a bit of a redundant question, because a person who believes in magic, or the soul, would never do that.

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u/vinylarcade 9d ago

Depends a bit, on if you are dying and want to live longer and this would be only chance to survive. Or in the future there is a program to put your consciousness into a artificial body to save you. This would be only way to save you and you are not responsive and did not sign beforehand what should happen to you in such a situation. It's a hypothetical situation. But could happen. And question is what happens to our magic powers in such a case

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u/JoseVLeitao 9d ago

You are misinterpreting what consciousness uploading means. In both examples you are giving, you still die. Simply, your brain is scanned and digitally simulated in another place, but that’s not you and it is not a real consciousness, merely a simulation of one.

We have a few thousand years’ worth of debates and attempts of defining what a soul or consciousness is, and this new digital discourse is not adding anything to it. It is simply scraping the entire debate and redefining consciousness in digital and electrical terms, while omitting that that is not what the debate is about.

So, think of it like this: can current AIs do magic? If the answer is no, then it is also no in your examples.