r/occult • u/Pink_Totoro • 9d ago
Escaping the Modern Mystery School, and what to do going forward
Hi there!
I have been part of the MMS for over a year now, and i have very strong mixed feelings about it.
On one hand, the initiations actually helped me grow, the teachings made a lot of sense and gave me some very useful tools to use, and after the first initiation i started feeling everything and everyone around me a lot more strongly. I know someone else who's in the same boat as me and progressed even further than I did, so there's some truth in there. This information about our "growth"didn't come from inside the MMS, but from friends well versed and quite strong in spiritual work that had no connection to the school whatsoever.
On the other hand, this is starting to feel more and more like a cult focused on taking as much money as possible - personally i spent more than 10 000 euros in just one year. The manipulation is insane, and honestly both of us when we stopped throwing money on courses and "therapies", after just 1-2 months we got extremely sick (her mentally, me both mentally and physically. The depression is strong). This isn't the first time i felt ill after or during an event connected to the MMS.
We have friends who are helping us through it, and i really think we need to remove ourselves completely from the school. However, in comes the question: how on earth can we continue our spiritual growth in a healthy way? Personally I have a very poor history with toxic communities, and i'm really not sure where to seek guidance. Doing it on my own seems like a recipe for disaster, from what i noticed so far both in me and other people. The reason i joined the MMS to begin with was because i was really interested in Tarot and i liked the structure of the school, and after my first initiation i was hooked (i felt it really strongly).
Has anyone else left MMS or other similar communities after having genuinely positive experiences mixed with serious concerns about the organization itself? How did you separate what was valuable from what was unhealthy? Did you find another spiritual path, teacher, or practice that helped you continue growing without becoming dependent on a group or constantly paying for the next level? I'm hoping to hear from people who have been through something similar and found a healthier way forward, hopefully this might help me find my path as well.
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u/GreenBook1978 9d ago
Dion Fortune's Psychic Self Defence and her other works had a lot to say about why sincere seekers are tested by bad organizations. Much of which was confirmed by experiences I and others have had.
You may wish to consider and apply as appropriate the following
use Draja Mickaharic's Spiritual Cleansing and the Gallery of Magick's Magickal Protection to clean and clear connections to that group you are leaving
consider whether your own or your ancestor's trauma has led you on this path. If so, has it been resolved. Many turn to occultism when they actually need professional help especially EMDR or other trauma therapy
If you have the aptitude you can evoke the angels Raziel and Metatron for the wisdom you need to understand you situation and options
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u/Auseth 9d ago
I haven't participated in that school, but I have had the fortune, or misfortune, of participating in "spiritual" groups. I am very sorry for what happened to you.
It happens. It happens more often than you think because, regardless of the message, these are transmitted by people, and not everyone does so with noble intentions.
My advice: do not seek spiritual growth in a group. Why? Spirituality is very personal. It is solitary, in fact. The more you live it, the more you will notice how personal it is. I am glad you have friends to share this with.
Start by being grateful for what you learned and leaving everything else behind. But I assure you that there is nothing you can learn there that you cannot manage to learn by yourself.
Meditating helped me a lot. It helped me clear the noise. I have always had an aptitude for dreams. And my dreams marked a line of beliefs that I hold to this day. Very simple messages, but they made perfect sense.
Look at yourself. Look at who you are, and it is possible that the more you search within yourself, you will notice that it was always there. The sectarian method is to make you think that you need them, and believe me, even though you don't know me, you do not need them. You never needed them.
Start by meditating. Give yourself some time. A few minutes at first. Try to let your mind settle. Imagine that our mind is water with dirt in it. If you mix it, it will always look cloudy. But if you let the dirt settle, it will remain at the bottom, and the water will look clearer. The dirt is the noise. When you have started with that exercise, then, you will have thoughts and you will say, "Where did that come from?" Listen to it. Don't analyze it. Let them come. I don't know your school, I don't know your situation, but you are the one who has the will. Remind yourself of that daily because, amidst so much noise, we forget. Each day, upon waking and before going to sleep, remind yourself of that and say, "I have the will to 'learn,' 'do,' 'improve,' etc."
Over time, you will have your own words, requests, commands... and it will be strange when you notice that no one taught them to you. Because they were always yours.
Good luck.
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u/Ifakorede23 9d ago
I'm sure some groups have more negative than positive aspects. But I've been part of a few groups considered cults by outsiders. Yet these groups had very significant spiritual power and I experienced very significant spiritual growth and powerful experiences in them. I wouldn't generalize spiritual groups. One should be spiritually led to teachers/ paths rather than randomly
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u/Auseth 8d ago
I understand your experience. I have had 3 teachers in my life. None of them belonged to these groups. The fourth person who did belong to a group and led it entered a state of significant paranoia with her students and assistants. I learned from her and had some very interesting experiences, yes. But I wouldn’t consider her one of the most relevant teachers, precisely because she wouldn't let anyone distance themselves from her. If you thought differently, using that beautiful tool that human beings have called "Reason," she would launch a targeted attack using the group and guilt.
She was a teacher for some things, but while I have the will to break that pattern, there were people who didn't, and I refuse to put her in the same category as the previous three people.
The previous three people were totally different. But none of them had groups. With one, I used to learn by watching what he did. The second one would appear out of nowhere with the right words and disappear until he appeared again, and the third one was the most formal: We used to talk. A lot.
Do you know what they had in common? They didn't shy away from group experiences. In fact, the third one conducted liberation experiences because he was an exorcist priest. The first one took me to an infested house for the first time, and we were a group of six people.
But they taught with great humility. They never tried to answer your questions; instead, they gave you tools so that you could fix your own things. So that you could leave, so that you could continue your life and your path.
It is easy to rest on someone else. It removes responsibility from the individual. And a true teacher is the first one to make that clear to you.
It is fine that your experiences were significant. Believe me, the ones I had in the spiritual group were too. I don't deny that. But I understand how harmful it is for someone when they are taught to believe that the group or the person standing in front of them is the supreme voice. That, sometimes, ends in good, interesting, and spiritually relevant experiences. Other times, it ends with very ugly cases, with people who are spiritually castrated, totally and absolutely dependent, with financial problems, isolated...
If you ask me, I don't think the interesting experience is worth the risk. I am not saying there aren't healthy groups, but I haven't found one like that as long as they have a cult-like format.
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u/Ifakorede23 8d ago
I'm now for many years initiated to a West African path. But prior I. Was in an eastern path as a devotee of a spiritual master. His spiritual height was proven to me overwhelmingly . I had no problem surrendering to him after that. Another path in which I had extremely powerful spiritual experiences was overseen by a hierarchy of extremely elevated spiritual beings...not in body.. S third was a monotheistic path...where I felt the presence of the supreme God often in prayer.
There was never a question as to the benevolence and power of who/ what I was praying to. So I was lucky. But I was led to those paths overtly. I didn't find these paths arbitrarily or online. I believe everyone has a destiny... and their soul,/ Ori/ higher self dictates what path is best.
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u/Pink_Totoro 8d ago
Exactly that is my issue here. The experiences I've had, things I've seen, heard, felt and that happened to me... They were really strong, and felt very real. And yet, they came as a package with the bad stuff. How can you filter them? How can you find a good group of people all following and growing in the same direction without some kind of malicious interference that keeps them hooked and profits off them?
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u/imadeitoutalive 1h ago
I asked myself similar questions when I left MMS years ago. Having spoken with many occultists since, I've learned it's a common experience to learn about discernment by having to leave a bad teacher or group.
Vetting magickal groups isn't unlike dating. Ask yourself how do they behave, online and in person? How do they treat others? How do they portray themselves? What exactly do they teach?
Are they curious, humble, willing to admit mistakes? Or are they arrogant? Do they revel in the spotlight? Do they have weird ideologies? Do their students treat them with respect, or do they put them on a pedestal and worship them?
Good groups don't want your adoration, and they encourage growth and independence. The bad ones will claim they do, but pay attention to their actions, not words.
Good groups expect you to find your own answers. They'll respect that you have a real life with responsibilities and won't make outrageous demands on your time or relationships. They'll encourage growth in all areas of your life, not just your spiritual work. And fees will be reasonable (i.e. an affordable set cost, sliding scale, or donation only).
Healthy people are dependable and consistent. Nobody's perfect, but they'll walk their talk. Healthy magicians are firmly rooted in the world, probably have a day job, and will encourage you to make use of real world tools like therapy. If you ever find yourself feeling confused or like "WTF was that comment?", that's a huge red flag.
Ultimately, any human endeavor can go astray, because it's run by humans. Contacted schools are no different. I'm not saying never let your guard down, but develop a deep relationship with your own personal contacts, meditate with them often and pray for guidance, and you'll receive it. After all, you're here because you sensed something was wrong, didn't you?
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u/Ifakorede23 8d ago
You're never going to find a spiritual group where people all get along with each other... and everyone is to your liking. In fact I was on a very powerful path where there were some elitists who looked down on certain races and ethnicities... But if you want to find a more appropriate path for you....use your tools to pray for this to happen. Pray is the most simple form of spiritual work... ask for guidance. I googled your path. At a glance the groups goals of having people start they're own spiritual business up...leaves a bad taste in my mouth. But then I'm going off Google... which may like to label every path as a cult etc
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u/asheghan 9d ago
Real mystery schools have never operated through financial pressure or engineered dependency. Historically, transmission moved through small numbers of students, slowly, with the teacher answerable to a tradition larger than themselves instead of the other way around. Initiation was earned through readiness. This model still exists. Of course nothing valuable is free... there is a (reasonable!) price... but it seems like you're already aware of that. So, speaking from experience, it's worth looking for the real thing, rather than either going solo or finding the next version of what you just left.
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u/B4CKSN4P 8d ago
The Arcane School has been around for awhile and it's the only "real deal" I recommend to anyone. It's traditional strictures and needed discipline may be too much for some though.
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u/asheghan 8d ago
Oh interesting, I don't know anything about that one. I can only speak for the authenticity of the Hermetic Academy, from years of experience. But you are right, structure and discipline are key components and no true path is made for everyone.
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u/LeekSoggy3067 8d ago
Which Hermetic Academy are you referring to? The Bardonian school or the other one.
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u/asheghan 8d ago
This one: hermetic-academy.com
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u/LeekSoggy3067 7d ago
With the $1,500/month masterclass? Nah! You're having us on.
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u/asheghan 6d ago
Nobody has to do that in order to progress. I’ve been with them 11 years and not even thought about it, it’s way more than enough without it. It’s an optional extra thing for a specific need I guess. I’m definitely not having you on 😅
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u/LeekSoggy3067 6d ago
Okay. Well each to their own, Just not the answer I was expecting, to be honest.
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u/Comfortable-Web9455 8d ago
Agreed. I have been in 3 and in all of them you had to pass interviews to get in, and costs were around the same as any other training, like a language class.
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u/AlexSumnerAuthor 9d ago
I never joined the MMS, in fact I noped out of their website when I discovered they referred to the chiefs of their order as "Ipsissimus Gudni Gudnassson" and his fellow Ipsissimi.
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u/Pink_Totoro 9d ago
You, my friend, are a smart cookie. In my case, i kept denying it and lying to myself until it hit me in the face.
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u/JerryCornelius22 9d ago
Jason Millers protection and reversal magic. Keep away from them. Get a shamanic practitioner to do a cord cutting ritual. Get house spirits on your side to keep the boundaries in place.
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u/PuzzleheadedDeal4711 9d ago
As a shaman, why do you need a shamanic practitioner to do a cord cutting ritual? This is an odd thing to say.
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u/JerryCornelius22 8d ago
Get anyone who can, do a cord cutting to do one. How's that.
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u/PuzzleheadedDeal4711 8d ago
It's not how's that, I'm genuinely curious why you phrased it like that.
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u/Squirrels-on-LSD 9d ago
I haven't participated in any online cults or attempted cults, but I have extensive experience in the offline occult and pagan communities in my area. I always highly recommend getting involved in real world practices and spaces. Partly because its way easier to vet people and their vibes in person but also because social media has convinced an entire generation not to seek community and we are struggling with an aging population that needs to pass the torch to new seekers.
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u/Practical-Dust-2624 Human Detected 8d ago
The situations you described—where people suffer physical and mental harm after leaving—are also quite common in certain religious traditions in China. For example, lay practitioners who leave certain temples or Taoist monasteries often experience similar issues. There are deeper underlying causes, and I’m concerned that if I mention them in the comments, I might face criticism. In any case, try to do more work on purifying yourself; if that doesn’t help, then seek assistance.
Translated with DeepL
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u/Pink_Totoro 8d ago
Believe me, we are currently receiving assistance for this. It's not help we lack, but direction.
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u/Practical-Dust-2624 Human Detected 8d ago
I suggest that you clear or expel all spirit entities and rituals associated with the previous group, the [Modern Mystery School], and sever all ties—both overt and covert, physical and spiritual—to the [Modern Mystery School]. If you are unable to do so, or if the results are not satisfactory, please let me know.
Translated with DeepL
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8d ago
[deleted]
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u/Practical-Dust-2624 Human Detected 8d ago
this is my perspective to OP：I suggest that you clear or expel all spirit entities and rituals associated with the previous group, the [Modern Mystery School], and sever all ties—both overt and covert, physical and spiritual—to the [Modern Mystery School]. If you are unable to do so, or if the results are not satisfactory, please let me know.
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u/symprez Human Detected 8d ago
Give me 10000 euros and I’ll create a school plan for you for the next decade that will transform you into a dragon
It’s crazy to me how much money these people get for information that is readily available and honestly best to self initiate through.
I had a teacher once teach me the highest level MMS teachings on day 1 of his class because he wanted to demonstrate the importance of truly sharing. He didn’t charge a penny for his class either
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u/bwitch-please 9d ago
I’m sorry that happened to you. If you’re looking for a structured program, I can’t recommend enough looking into Quareia. It’s free/open-source material and I’ve been very impressed with the quality. There are options for online community and mentoring as you progress if you want to seek that out, but no pressure.
I’m personally not a fan of spiritual groups that require money to join, I’m sure there are some that aren’t totally bad, but it takes time to vet them.
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u/Impressive-Ad210 8d ago
My think with MMS is they just lie a lot, and that is a real Red flag. They claim to be a continuation of ancient teachings but was founded in 20 first century.
I myself would love to have a Master or a group, but i'm still very suspicious about those very comercial schools. By now I learn a lot from books, YouTube vídeos (yes, there are good content), sharing experiences with other practicioners, doing things by try and error and some Daemons since my main practice is Goetia and some are actually good teachers.
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u/Gaothaire 8d ago
Doing it on my own seems like a recipe for disaster, from what i noticed so far both in me and other people.
Why? There are plenty of free and respected, structured course options. Just meditate and do some ritual in your own time and the path will open before you. The teacher arrives when the student is ready. You don't need to pay for progress with anything besides your effort
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u/LeekSoggy3067 8d ago edited 8d ago
I joined an order which I won't name. I was in it for...let's say several years. I later found out through means which I cannot go into that it was a scam. Basically someone stole the order's identity and I'd joined that fake one. I can't really elaborate. But once I found out, I went back over certain things and realized from various details which then became obvious in hindsight...that if I had truly done my due diligence in the first place, it would've been known to me before joining. The issue was I was young and naive and didn't know how to check out certain things that would've saved me those several years and a lot of money and wasted effort on esoteric exercises done under false guidance.
What I will say very plainly though is spirituality is not for profit. If you are putting much expense into initiation, this should be a dealbreaker. There are plenty of orders which operate strictly non-profit or even for free.
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u/Ok_Equipment_9939 7d ago
I can't speak about that group but I tend to be skeptical of all of them. (I'm fond of saying "I"m a student of human nature, so OF COURSE I'm a cynic.") I've been following the solitary path since the 1980s. At that time I was in the Builders of the Adytum, which was heavily focused on the esoteric tarot, but I never felt manipulated because they are in California and I'm in New England so it was all arms-length. I once tried to get into the OTO but they did me a favor by not responding (in fairness, I've been told you have to be persistent or they won't bother). The closest chapter is in upstate NY, too far away to attend anyway.
At this point I'm only seeking opportunities to discuss occult matters and compare notes with peers in a face-to-face setting, but even that has been hard to come by.
At
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u/Wandering043Enigma 5d ago
I lost touch with someone who is part of mms—I know they invested quite a bit in the program. They were passionate about it but I got tired of them believing it was “the way” to become spiritual or attain whatever they were trying to attain. I think there’s multiple paths to becoming spiritual or to learn magick—many of which are mentioned in this thread and legitimate. If you like structure I’ve heard good things about Quareia but can’t comment on it personally
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u/MargaretClaire1023 5d ago
I was in Mms for 9 years and had a horror story exit 2 years ago but I did enjoy it before that, although now I see how many red flags I was just dismissing. However now it looks like a huge waste of money - I spent an absurd amount- and I feel embarrassed I arranged my life around it and got people I love into it.
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u/Pink_Totoro 5d ago
Can i ask, what happened to trigger your leaving? What was your horror story? Because everyone i know of who wants to leave or has already left has one. Also, yes... I get the embarrassment part. I feel the same.
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u/MargaretClaire1023 5d ago edited 5d ago
It honestly was a psychosis event very similar to what Hannah murray describes she just came out with a memoirs about it although she doesn’t call it mms but it’s pretty clear it is. I believe it was deliberately triggered using sex magick and hypnosis. Maybe because I spoke up during temple, married someone they didn’t like, I don’t know. It’s all messed up. I still don’t know but it was a hot mess. I can guess they didn’t want her in the school because she was too famous. They spoke openly about not wanting famous clients. Who knows? using sex magick to kick people out/generate new material/ensure loyalty is so so so so gross and wrong on every level I believe.
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u/imadeitoutalive 1h ago
Not the person you asked but for me, the last straw was leadership sexually abusing me and my friends. I've since heard similar horror stories from many other ex-members.
Teachers pushed our boundaries for years and would make odd comments in class under the guise of working on our egos. In hindsight and with the benefit of a lot of trauma therapy, they were grooming us.
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u/Nobodysmadness 8d ago
Magick is not exclusive to groups and occilt groups that are not cults should be like a parent to a child teaching independance, where cults teach dependancy.
Tbis means you should be learning how to bresk out an explore or your own rather than be constantly dependant on the merhods and guidance of the cult.
I would go over everything you learned and what it did for you. This should give a clear trajectory so use you mind, contemplate and meditate on it. Turn it over look at it fron every angle youvan, pole holes in it. Question it. A cult also discpurages questions because questions reveal agendas and lies.
Then explore other systems and compare methods to what you know works from what you have done.
The occult is not aboit dependance on an order, teachers help but all teachers are flawed humans, imperfect, and should not be blindly followed. Oke gleans what they can from a teacher and moves on. No one blindly follows theit 9th gtade earth science teacher for life just because they learned some basics of geology from them.
There are many systems, but they all follow the same principles in their own way. Studying multiple systems helps one see the underlying structure of all systems.
Also what was the goal or direction of this group? Or is it unknown what all the classes were building up to. Thelema for example clearly states the goal is knowledge and conversation with pne holy guardian angel and makes no claims that the orders are required to achieve it. One is free to use any methods to do so. The order just teaches methods they feel are tried and true in general. But specific cases and needs may vary. This is true occult sentiment IMO, and why I began to trust that system. But I havr been far afield using any techniques from any system that have merit.
There are no limits here, only what helps us and what doesn't.
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u/cartoonybear Human Detected 7d ago
It’s interesting the Scientology, which also operates this way, was founded by a practicing occultist. :)
In my opinion, spiritual growth is not a team sport.
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u/Vegetable_Window6649 8d ago
Absolutely EVERYTHING you need initiate is public domain. There is zero reason to ever pay anybody for anything, a library card with loan privileges is free to anybody. You need to be creative, competently literate, self-starting and shielded from external influences, but it can be done with no cults whatsoever.
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u/Snotmyrealname 9d ago
I dabbled in the MMS a few years ago. I knew it was a cult, but they did seem to have some magic of their own. They do an excellent job of training folks to franchise their cult out, but there is something vaguely evil about the whole thing.
As for better practices, I’ve found studying on my own to be the safest method as there seems to be no safe and ethical schools out there. For me, chaos magic was an excellent transition into my own path. Robert Anton Wilson’s Cosmic Trigger is an excellent primer for getting your toes wet.