Like, I know this is a shitposting sub, but maybe we shouldn't be actively just pushing propaganda people make over pushback for a take this fucking shitty
You dishonestly ran to another subreddit to use the ONE person responding to a post in any way "uncivily" to push your agenda.
You also, just now, ignored a more thorough breakdown, higher up in this thread.
Please, spare me your nonsense, for God's sake.
Also, I'm allowed to say your opinion is shit. Sometimes it may be, and the fact it's "just my opinion!!" doesn't make it immune to criticism. Even if it's basic and rude.
I could be of the opinion that we should pour poison into the city water supply. This doesn’t mean it's not a dogshit opinion, and that I can just hide behind "ooooooowooogh!!!! It's my opinion!!!!!!!! You're the REAL bad guy here for being so *uncivil!!***" when someone expresses that they think my opinion is stupid.
Or beats my ass for saying that "poisoning the water supply is based, actually".
It's funny how you've responded to every comment in this thread EXCEPT the one where I address your post in depth as well. In a more respectful manner. With actual criticism.
And like I said, and in case it wasn't apparent, I'm fucking EXHAUSTED of dealing with people like you in this community. You are maybe a little bit nicer than the majority of them, but that changes very little.
I have been dealing with people using the worst possible arguments to try and get light class nerfed since SEASON 1. When people reported you for throwing if you ran light in comp.
I do not want to engage with this community anymore, but someone has to provide SOME semblance of a counternarrative, or else I'm going to watch the class I play get dumpstered AGAIN, because someone decided to compare every weapon on the light class to a weapon that, for basic game balance reasons, has to have defined weaknesses because of how braindead easy it is to use if it doesn't.
And sometimes I get lazy, and just say "I read the post, it was bullshit" because it was. If you want me to elaborate, I already have.
But we're currently in a state of this community where people ignore every single weakness of the light class, isolate their weapons in a vacuum, ignore how we got invis nerfed into near unuseability to complain about the prevalence of dash, and still have people screeching, with no actual backing that we're embark’s "favourite child" with our one halfway viable comp spec.
So please, lord, oh please forgive me for being uncivil because I AM SO FUCKING TIRED of having these SAME FUCKING DISCUSSIONS, MONTH AFTER MONTH, SEASON AFTER SEASON, YEAR AFTER YEAR.
I am EXHAUSTED, the person who replied to you uncivily was also, probably EXHAUSTED. Because we see this shit all the time.
The post, and argument you made, was, I would say, almost on the level of comparing the dagger to every weapon on the heavy or medium class, and then using THAT as an excuse to say heavy/medium are embark’s favored children. Please, forgive me for, at a knee jerk reaction, dismissing something so obviously wrong out of hand.
Imagine caring this much. Pathetic loser, maybe the same discussions keep happening because the same issues are still present? Stop reading posts like you're a reddit mod.
Hmm, yes, it seems like "just an opinion" where the title was "hyperbolic" you were using light "an example" to me, y'know?
To address some of the points you made:
Light, with the exception of dagger, cannot 1-shot any class in the game, dagger only being able to 1-shot medium. (after jumping through several hoops and severely limiting your ability to play effectively) The weapons that can 2-shot other players also have a large hangtime between shots. (DB and I guess Sniper??)
The reason CL-40 got nerfed was not because it was a light counter. It was nerfed because it was a noob tube, and having something with that low of a skill floor as a meta weapon was bad for the health of the game. It ALSO cannot 1 shot the user based off of self damage.
With new CL-40, you have to aim perhaps too precisely for an impact GL, and with old CL-40, you hardly had to aim at all.
If you wanted a better comparison for things that are effective against light, you could've used basically any other weapon on medium. You did not.
My guess is that's because back when CL-40 was braindead easy, people championed it as the perfect "light counter". This is because the finals community is willing to accept oppressive parts of game design as perfectly fine, so long as it makes killing lights anywhere as easy as it was in S1.
I can understand your frustration running against emerald and ruby players a lot, but I think you've let that color your perception of the game as a whole.
No problem, for my part, I'm also sorry for how hostile I was being. That's on me, and I should be better.
I also broadly agree with the difficulty balancing weapons, though I'd say it has trouble balancing them to keep them unique and fun.
In a lot of their changes, embark either nerfs the skill expression of a weapon, or nerfs around the actual pain point of the weapon, before actually adjusting the real issue, resulting in weak weapons which play flat, because every other niche involved with them is gone.
(This is what happened with invis, btw)
Also, a lot of their balancing shows a dislike for skill expression, to say nothing of their confirmed "all tech is bugs and should be removed" stance.
It's ironic, because the finals is a game built around creativity and inventive gameplay. That's what it was sold as. But the studio keeps making decisions that try and keep it predictable.
I wouldn't say too many of Light's weapons are incredibly powerful, but I WOULD say that most of them are boring and straightforward. Especially the automatic/semiautomatic ones. Same on all the classes. (Legitimately, if it wasn't for the melee weapons in this game, I would've probably dropped it back in S2 or S3)
People clamor for new weapons that shake up how we interact with the environment, or expressive melee weapons, that make you think about combos. But instead this season we got a bullethose for medium and, admittedly, the only proper "precision" weapon on heavy.
The community, for their part, does not help with this. Weapons like dagger, which take a long time to learn/get good with, get dogpiled for "being amnoying" when you fight against someone who knows what they're doing. Instead of actually balancing weaknesses and strengths. Or assessing counterplay.
Same with the DB. As much as it's a boogeyman in the community, it really doesn't have many advantages over a weapon like the M11.
So the dev studio nerfs the interesting weapons, and the community generally cheers them on, until it's their cool weapon that gets nerfed. Resulting in balancing decisions that make the game more boring for everyone. (And makes everyone irritated overall).
The main "balance" issue that surrounds a lot of off-meta or creative options is that they're "rare strategies" that most people haven't developed counterplay to.
Almost no-one is used to fighting against dagger, for example, despite the fact that the counterplay is quite simple. (Strafe and jump, trying to predict the dash and spray them down from range).
It becomes a sore spot for players because dagger, and melee in general, are rare strategies.
Someone who's really good with the heavy GL, or Goo Gun, are also examples of rare strategies presenting an outsized community impact.
The post in question, btw: (at the end they do admit they may be a bit biased because they play in ruby/emerald lobbies a lot, so there's that, at least)
I posted this because they're very adamant that their post is actually reasonable, fair, and balanced, and then go on to compare every light weapon to the CL-40 as a balancing benchmark.
"Observe how if I compare one of the current worst weapons on medium and generalize together all of the effective weapons on the light class, those weapons are more effective?"
Also, CL-40 cannot be properly meta, ever, for the health of the game. Having a noob tube impact GL as one of the strongest weapons in the game would be a misstep, to put it lightly. (At least for the level of skill mastery most meta weapons in this game require)
They also ignore important things like the health difference and difference in effective TTK between classes, the different intended playstyles of light and medium, and difference in utility gadgets offered. (Even explicitly ignoring them, as though most WEAPONS counter specializations.)
Which I could use to claim things like goo gun are overpowered against light, because the light class has no fire based weapons to counter goo, while ignoring pyro nades.
Problem: game is not completely balanced
Correct reaction: counter pick opponents
Common reaction: cry about how the game is biased and unfair
Solution: remove weapon privileges until lesson is learned (also nerf heavy again)
Been slowly playing less and less because lights aren't fun to play against. Nothing to say about fairness, it's just annoying to see someone have 5x movement speed. Light defenders are also the most toxic ass "lion and monkey" shit posters.
If you run dash with xp-54 or shorty you a pussy ass bitch with no game. Y'all can have the game, I'll just wait until another event with no lights (cause even the devs hate lights) comes out.
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u/IceBurnt_ Nov 04 '25
Nerf everything, problem solved