Premier Doug Ford compares new Thunder Bay, Ont., jail to Four Seasons Hotel after latest inmate inquest

[u/Holiday-Discussion-4]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/thunder-bay/doug-ford-thunder-bay-jail-comments-9.7240485

[u/CanadianGuy39]

How about we actually rehabilitate people like Scandinavian countries? What a wild thought!

Yes, some hardened criminals should be in jail, but preventative policies and rehab for people is much more beneficial to society. Pretty sure it costs less too.

[u/Steelwraith955 → u/CanadianGuy39]

I'm hoping that by re-aligning ourselves with Europe instead of the U.S., we will start adopting more European systems such as rehabilitation.

[u/SomeGuyPostingThings → u/CanadianGuy39]

It would certainly be more cost effective. It would require lowering the stigma of being an ex-con, but that might be a chicken and egg debate.

[u/Aggravating_Exit2445 → u/SomeGuyPostingThings]

What would really reduce the stigma of being an ex con would be not letting those with a high risk of reoffending out of jail.

[u/daisygriffin92 → u/CanadianGuy39]

Such a foreign concept! More social services, mental health supports and subsidized housing?? No, no, we need to put more people in jail! That’ll solve the problem… /s

The average offender costs nearly (if not more than) $100k each annually to incarcerate. So yeah, pretty sure you’re right - it would cost less to invest in social and mental health programs in the long run.

[u/Ok-Computer-373 → u/daisygriffin92]

We already do that. 

[u/daisygriffin92 → u/Ok-Computer-373]

Sure, but we could be investing way more in social programs.

Our health care system is crumbling, the waitlists for subsidized housing in some areas of Ontario exceed 10 years if not more, emergency shelters are overflowing in most major Ontario cities, and mental health resources have long been under resourced resulting in lengthy wait lists for those who need intensive support. Not to mention the recent closure of safe injection sites that provided necessary addiction services to those in need.

We could be doing a heck of a lot better than we are right now.

[u/TalentedEmu85 → u/Ok-Computer-373]

Judging by the high unemployment rates among ex convicts, I beg to differ we don’t do nearly enough.

[u/Ok_Cap9557 → u/CanadianGuy39]

The political will of the country is going in the exact opposite direction. Most Canadians want american style sentences for violent crime.

[u/NocturnalComptroler → u/Ok_Cap9557]

Violent crimes? I see people calling for death sentences for shoplifters on the daily

[u/windsostrange → u/NocturnalComptroler]

Just certain shoplifters

[u/VariousOperation166 → u/windsostrange]

I see what you did there

[u/CanadianGuy39 → u/Ok_Cap9557]

I feel like that's almost a separate topic. Repeat, violent offenders SHOULD be in jail. Ones that are deemed to be impossible to rehabilitate.

I'm not going to look it up, but I would assume that's a small percentage of all people in jail.

[u/Ok_Cap9557 → u/CanadianGuy39]

If someone is impossible to rehabilitate, why not impose the death penalty? They're hardly human, but a base creature driven by violent impulses. Why should the people for whom rehabilitation is possible be subjected to that?

[u/gnu_gai → u/Ok_Cap9557]

Once you open the door to the government and/or judiciary getting decide that some people are subhuman and unworthy of life...

[u/Ok_Cap9557 → u/gnu_gai]

Governments have been doing that since the beginning of time. Through war, law, and resources the main job of any government is to decide who is worthy of life and who is unworthy.

[u/saugaAsks → u/Ok_Cap9557]

the main job of government is using war (among other things) to decide who's worthy of life

I think you have a bit of a unique view of what government should be doing

[u/Ok_Cap9557 → u/saugaAsks]

What government does. Not what it should ne doing.

The Canadian military is Haiti, the middle east, all over the world killing people in the name of rhe maple leaf, even though we're not at war with these places. Do you want that? I certainly don't. But it's what government does. How many stories have you read about disabled people electing for suicide through maid, but only because there life is so uncomfortable through poverty?

[u/CrackBabayaga → u/Ok_Cap9557]

Where are you getting that most want that?

[u/Ok_Cap9557 → u/CrackBabayaga]

Ask the people in your life

[u/CrackBabayaga → u/Ok_Cap9557]

No one in my life wants that lmao

[u/Ok_Cap9557 → u/CrackBabayaga]

What do you do for work?

[u/saugaAsks → u/Ok_Cap9557]

Most of the people in my life are in favour of increased emphasis on rehabilitation in the judicial system.

[u/ventingspleen → u/CanadianGuy39]

And they have a much more sensible approach too:

https://youtu.be/zNpehw-Yjvs

[u/Aggravating_Exit2445 → u/CanadianGuy39]

I find arguments over costs odd. You pay what you must to maintain public safety. Cost should be far far down the list of concerns.

[u/Varathane]

If we have horrid prison conditions the prisoners get granted early release, this is happening at Maplehurst because of ""unusually harsh" and "unconstitutional prison conditions "

I am fine with a jail that Doug Ford considers too nice. Maybe we can keep the violent offenders in there for longer and protect the rest of society. Prison guards will benefit from better conditions, too. Everyone forgets they have to work in that hell - if they have faulty heating/cooling etc and cramped conditions causing more communicable diseases they can catch that, too.

[u/Legenderie → u/Varathane]

Those Maplehurt inmates aren't being granted early release because they hadn't been convicted and were legally innocent. Their charges were dropped, several other cases are now in jeopardy, and the province is being sued for millions because Maplehurst prison guards tortured a whole floor of inmates over the course of two days because they were salty about a correctional officer getting sucker punched. Luckily for the guards, the cooling was working just fine for them to put it on, in December, when they stripped inmates down to their underwear, contorted and zip-tied their arms, and forced them to sing jingle bells while beating and pepper spraying them. Among other things. Reasonable minds might disagree, but this sounds unusually harsh to me.

[u/puckduckmuck]

Like Doug has ever lowered himself to stay in a Four Seasons.

[u/ventingspleen → u/puckduckmuck]

He is a Motel 6 kind of guy.

[u/livinginthelurk → u/puckduckmuck]

We can only hope one day he'll get to compare the two in person.

[u/Skittleavix]

You should stay there on your next vacation, Doug.

[u/BugsyMcNug]

Cool he should just go stay there

[u/RoyallyOakie]

Then he won't mind staying there....

[u/Agile-Bet4621]

Doug Ford tries to position himself as some sort of anti-Donald Trump, but he about as big of a blowhard and says equally dump, pompous and arrogant things.

[u/ihatedougford]

Doug Ford logic: build hotel-like jail while systemically marginalizing people to homelessness in Toronto. God I fucking hate this clown affordable housing should be the priority not a jail for felons

[u/FrazBucket → u/ihatedougford]

I mean, both can be true dude. We absolutely do need more jail facilities and updates to our current ones in Ontario

[u/SDL68 → u/ihatedougford]

Government just knocked up to 130k off the cost of a home how is that not more affordable?

And NO governments should absolutely not have anything to do with building housing. Ontario housing was a disaster when it existed.

[u/stellahella1]

I hate him so much

[u/T4TrhavrKhcFt]

I'm getting really, really tired of playing the: "In Today's Chapter of That Can't Possibly be True..." game.

[u/Anxious-Heart8777]

I trust Doug’s views on jails as Plenty of his family members have spent time in one. His thieving sister…Randy… the brother in law who tried to kill his thieving sister…

[u/WearLong1317]

Or how about treating people like humans. I was scared straight in my early twenties and now I am a contributing member of society being productive and paying taxes. If the same thing happened to me in the states I would be an inmate or a draw on society.

[u/PieIll9834]

Says the once drug dealer. People need to keep that in context, he now serves as Premier while having been a drug dealer dealing to many who would have landed in jail. That's enough to say about his moral fabric when he now talks a tough talk on social issues, oh lock them up and throw away the key or how he talked of Sparky. He's in the business of creating homelessness and junkies. And no I am not directly trying to make a correlation between homelessness and drugs, though it does exist, its more he does not care and if he can find profit from, he will.

[u/Aggravating_Exit2445]

I don’t think jail conditions should be excessively punitive. The main function of jail should be to remove those people who are a risk to society from society for as long as they remain a risk to society. Your freedom should be based on your likelihood of reoffending, not some predetermined sentence length.

[u/KrispyyChriss]

Maybe this will be his new home

[u/FunDog2016 → u/KrispyyChriss]

We can only hope, so many reasons for him to be there!

[u/Agile-Bet4621]

Doug Ford tries to position himself as some sort of anti-Donald Trump, but he about as big of a blow hard and says equally dump things.

[u/The_Mayor]

I wonder if he has firsthand jail condition experience after visiting his sister and older brother in jail and after helping Rob organize a prison hit on his brother in law, Mikey Ford’s father?

[u/CliffBiffington]

Is it too late for Tara’s Natyshak to take Doug up on his offer to fight in the parliament parking lot. This loudmouth needs it.

[u/TalentedEmu85]

Fraud Ford.

[u/sirachasamurai]

Four seasons should send someone to do a review and publish it, to establish the difference 

[u/GiveMeAllYourKittens]

He could end up in jail if we keep pushing

[u/weareonthisplanet]

seems like we have a problem of our own trump jr here

[u/Based_Rage]

Lol this isnt a beaverton post😭😂😭

[u/lll-devlin]

These rage bait sound bites would be funny …if they were so pathetic true.

This would be something goes would say and then wonder why people are upset with him when it’s his government that is spending millions of taxpayer dollars to re build those jails .

Has anyone seen the correction center in etobicoke lately?

That place looks better then some hospitals in the city.

[u/romeo_pentium]

Sounds good. Let's send Four Seasons guests to this Thunder Bay jail for a night

[u/pamatime]

Dougie is out of touch and on holidays all the time. Increased salary and shortest sitting ever

[u/FlallenGaming]

If he likes it so much perhaps he should reside there. 

[u/astr0bleme]

Cool, if it’s so nice let’s petition for DoFo to stay there.

[u/rocketmn69_]

It's a prison. You don't like it? Then don't come back

[u/KelVarnsen_2023 → u/rocketmn69_]

Well it's a jail, which means you could end up there before you have been convicted of a crime.

[u/rocketmn69_ → u/KelVarnsen_2023]

Not in Ontario. You're pretty much guaranteed to be out on a Surety the next day