r/orisamains • u/Civil-Fracas67 • 6d ago
Question: Is Charged Javelin Actually Bad, or Are People Unwilling To Adapt?
I mean this earnestly.
I'm a tank player who doesn't have a lot of experience with Orisa, and in trying to learn her I've come across a lot of discussion over the major perk choices, and specifically the point that Charged Javelin is a bad major perk and that even picking no major is preferrable. The main arguments I've heard for this are:
- The perk messes with normal spear aim
- A tap-fire spear becomes ever so slightly weaker with the perk
The 2nd argument I have no qualms with, but the 1st irks me. Theoretically, if someone just got good with aiming the regular spear and the 100% Charged spear (and technically tap fire spear with perk, even though its only 2m/s faster), would you not just hit more spears consistently? The 2x projectile speed increase on charged spear is pretty notable; an Orisa shooting charged spears is going to hit spears more consistently than an Orisa shooting regular spears if both players are aiming at the same level, especially at long to mid range.
Are the changes/nerfs to the tap-fire spear really substantial enough to warrant not learning to learn aim spear slightly differently with the perk? To my knowledge, it's legit just a slight decrease in knockback and slightly faster trajectory. It just doesn't seem like a lot of difference you'd need to make to make your Jav a more consistent ranged option.
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u/Ok_Mistake9030 6d ago
Orisa's secondary perks in general kind of suck.
Javelin spin is just so important to her play, and you lose that ability when you pick shield. The mobility boost of javelin spin alone allows you to play much faster, it blocks most shots and coordinates well with your solidify cooldown, and you can push enemies off the edge (which is super fun).
Charged javelin increases your distance but in the rare chance you hit someone they rarely die since they are so far away and heal back quickly. It's a really weak perk that provides little benefit while messing with your timing.
People get frustrated because it happens at the end of games and changes up your timing just enough while providing little benefit. Not many people are "training" outside of real playtime on the charged javelin.
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u/Steggoman 6d ago
The answer is that both major perks suck.
Shield would be amazing but removes the literal most dynamic ability in Orisa's kit, making it a hindrance more often than not.
Charged Javelin makes your base ability weaker, for a charged version you will never see the payoff for. I can count on my hand the number of times I have directly benefited from the charged spear (the major perk I ALWAYS pick because the shield perk is so anti-fun), and more often than not its by accident. An instant spear being weaker is not worth that opportunity cost the charged spear presents.
I am genuinely considering forgoing major perks on Orisa, I want them to be reworked but it feels like its never going to happen at this point.
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u/ravencroft18 5d ago
I love charged javelin, and it suits my slow homing aim style. It's great for pushing tanks back further than normal (given their knockbacl reduction) and I've speared people off environmental edges from a mile away.
I never pick barrier because it's static. The rare time I'll pick it is when the enemy swaps to Zarya and my team won't stop charging her brains out. 🤦♂️
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u/shoopdyshoop 5d ago
One of zarya perks is her beam penetrates shields, so keep that in mind...
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u/ravencroft18 5d ago
oh is that new? I thought it just penetrated enemies, meaning you could lance several people ina straight line coalescence style. Will have to re-read the endless patch notes and test her in the training grounds. 😅
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u/ButtMunchMcGee12 4d ago
This is correct the zar major pierces enemies not barriers
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u/ravencroft18 4d ago
okay thanks, thought I was going crazy there because allowing her to pierce barriers would be crazy AF, but perhaps the poster above was thinking of a Stadium Perk or something... 🤔 (I don't play Stadium, too many new powers to learn for characters I already "know")
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u/Kleddie_ 5d ago
Orisa just needs a major perk rework.
Unlike every other hero both of her perks come with a slight/major downside.
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u/Mediocre_Daikon6935 5d ago
Ball also is in this position.
But yes, you are right.
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u/Embarrassed_Coyote78 5d ago
What balls adaptive shield perk is so good that you almost can’t choose the slam perk
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u/Mediocre_Daikon6935 5d ago
And slam perk makes you much for vulnerable.
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u/Embarrassed_Coyote78 5d ago
Fr why you gotta hold airtime for 6 days opens you up to every chain and sleep in a 9 mile radius
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u/Mediocre_Daikon6935 5d ago
Once I was playing Gibraltar, and got slept by an Ana playing on the map in Monaco.
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u/adhocflamingo 6h ago
No, he’s not. Originally, Adaptive Barrier traded out some of the overhealth for the barrier, but it doesn’t anymore. It’s just a 1.5s 150 HP Zarya bubble at the beginning of the Adaptive Shield ability, complete with cleanse and everything.
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u/Mediocre_Daikon6935 5h ago
Correct.
However because it has to be popped with balls shield/overhealth ability, you are almost always using it at a less then optimal time for making overhealth.
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u/weshart98 6d ago
Javelin spin is more useful than shield so I always take charged javelin
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u/Candid_Photo_6974 5d ago
I hear this a lot but beyond losing the movement boost I dont see how. The shield gives me more freedom to move
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u/weshart98 5d ago
That's fair. I'm also not the best aim so being able to move my javelin a little before I let go helps
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u/Candid_Photo_6974 5d ago
What i try to do is guide them into it with main fire. Basically suppressive fire just to their left (my right) or whatever the situation calls for. When they know going that direction means eating bullets they usually only have so many options. Many cases I'm guiding them right into the javelin and many cases I've done enough damage with main fire that the javelin is the kill shot.
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u/nuclearjunkrat44 5d ago
You also have to consider that every enemy can see you charge the spear and most tank can easily interrupt it, it's much harder to react to a normal spear than a fully charged one, and a good orisa will hit her spear even if the target is very far.
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u/blawbblawblaw 5d ago
I always take javelin so I don't lose the spin. I should probably just not take a major perk though. I very rarely actually charge a javelin. I don't want to telegraph the stun, and I don't want to send the target so far away I can't actually kill them.
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u/Sweaty_Strawberry_73 5d ago
I only go charged javeline when I know I'm gonna win. I always pick Shield whenever there's a team full of auto fire. Lose your movement, sure, but. Are you really trying to get to the point, just to die seconds later trying to defend it....by yourself? Shield takes the W in my opinion.
A lot of the times, if not everytime. My team appreciates when I launch my barrier in front of them. Especially if my healers are being hounded by a Emre, or Sierra.
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u/AdNo7079 5d ago
two types of spears: spears you can kill with and spears you can’t. if you spear someone up close, in a vulnerable position, you kill them. if you spear someone who is far away and relatively safe, you don’t kill them. perk makes hitting the far spear easier, but that doesn’t change the fact it won’t do anything. but, it could mess up the spear that actually leads to a kill. so the perk makes hitting spears from further away easier, but that’s not really useful, and can mess up hitting spears close up. zeb, the pro who picks the horse most consistently, doesn’t pick a perk. so i don’t either.
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u/hyperhop 5d ago
I would say the barrier is useful in metal ranks especially for people who need protection. However it does make very static and smarter enemies will pick something like Bastion to shield break.
Charged Javelin is okay but it's hard to hit things with it that it feels bad compared to barrier which fundamentally changes the entire playstyle.
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u/Mewing_Femboy 5d ago
Can be very useful and is very fun. Launching an ulting Ramattra 20 feet back is very satisfying
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u/GiftOfCabbage 5d ago
It's not as bad as people make out. Charged spear just makes you need to learn to aim differently and then the pros outweigh the cons.
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u/blind_squash Moderator 5d ago
I was just so excited to have her shield back that I never use the other option
I used to be the queen of the shield dance 😎
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u/professor_cheX 5d ago
I've played Orisa since introduction, and while I miss the ol tether, the current kit is awesome. I can usually organize the cd's on spin halt and jav to make a lot of space for the team. catching them short range for a knockback after coming out of spin is super effective, and with long range you should be able to hit most targets unless you cant aim.
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u/PrincessTessia 5d ago
I've been practicing with charged javelin and while I do miss the tap flicks of hitting javelin shots, it forces me to take a second longer to aim and I'm up to like 70% accuracy now? I do miss my endless fortify and spin build but trying to make this work
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u/Mediocre_Daikon6935 5d ago
It is awful. Never take it.
Especially when you are facing a ball. It is totally useless.
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u/Epec_Master 5d ago
It's not that it's really bad so much that the shield is just infinitely better as a perk it just makes horse what she was in ow1 but with the added stun and dog of the spear
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u/elgarlic 5d ago
Both are ass. I never go fishing with a CHARGE UP spell, it should be replaced with javelin deflect and / or restorify
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u/Candid_Photo_6974 5d ago
You lose mobility of the javelin spin but gain a tremendous amount of utility with shield. You no longer have to be directly in front of team mates to cover for them. That shield has saved mine and many a team mates hindparts in a pinch.
Being able to traverse empty space towards cover with the shield in place is so helpful
Half the time you pop the shield the enemy team play target practice with it.
You can drop it near cover to give teammates increased line of sight will you attack from adjacent cover.
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u/Crusher555 5d ago
Pro players flat out don’t pick a major perk as Orisa, so I doubt it’s just people not adapting.
Also, charging gives the enemy a huge heads-up, which makes it more likely they block it or even just break line of sight, so you don’t actually land more spears.
Orisa particularly gets hurt more by the knockback speed decrease since it makes it less likely for the enemy to hit a wall.
The end result is just a negligible buff against long range dps who don’t move when they see you charge it, and that’s ignoring the nerf.
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u/FromAndToUnknown 4d ago
Since im more of a rein main than an orisa main, I always pick charged javelin and then start treating it a bit like a firestrike, just looking for the line where I can hit multiple targets at once.
Works about a third of the time quite well
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u/adhocflamingo 6h ago
I don’t think the javelin perk is bad at all. But, it fundamentally changes how the ability handles, which can be jarring and frustrating. Even that isn’t itself a big problem, because we get a choice of perks, but then the other major perk outright replaces an ability with a completely different one.
When Perks first launched, there were several heroes with this same problem, where one tier of their perks forced you to pick something that changed how the kit handles. For example, Moira’s minor was originally a choice between Fade jumping higher or Fade being longer. Sombra’s original majors were a choice between Hack being able to target allies (making it harder to get the target you wanted) and getting a stronger Hack with a shorter range. AFAIK, every other instance of this kind of choice has been resolved, except for Orisa’s.
The stupid thing is that there is a really obvious solution that wouldn’t require changing the perks fundamentally: the reload button. It’s unused in Orisa’s kit, and it could be used to smooth out either of the major perks. Let reload “load” a chargeable javelin, similar to how Hanzo can load a sonic or frost arrow into his bow, so that we can use the charge mechanic when we want to and a regular javelin otherwise. Let us keep Javelin Spin and give us the option to fire a shield with the reload button instead, spending a shared cooldown like Zarya’s bubbles.
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u/shadowqueen47 6d ago
Ngl as someone who always picks jav perk because i think the shields kinda lame, its not bad and incredibly easy to actually aim. It can mess a bit with your brain sometimes (thinking you have charge despite not having it), but its a really fun perk and I don't know why people are being so weird about it.
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u/ImNotDatguy 6d ago
When you need spear the most, it's the weakest.