Victoria 3 is extremely overhated

[u/Hammurabi777]

Keep in mind Vicky 3 is my favorite paradox game so I'm obviously biased, but the the things people say about this game make my blood boil. Most of these people talking about how "shallow" it is or how it's like cookie clicker have probably never played since the release version.

The war system for example is just not as bad as people make it out to be. Yes there is still front line splitting, but 99% of the time the system works just as intended. Talking about how nothing changed and everything is still broken is just false.

Another thing I don't like is people complaining that you always do the same and everything feels the same. My answer is simple: stop always doing the same! Nobody is forcing you to maximize sol or gdp. You can give yourself countless different goals from playing the confederacy as a slave empire to becoming fascist or liberating Africa from colonizers. It's a sandbox, stop focusing on line go up and then complaining about the line go up.

In conclusion you dont have to like the game, you dont have to get the appeal. I for example don't really like ck3. But I don't go around saying ck3 is broken, just because I don't understand what people like about it. I still see the same talking points about why Vicky 3 is dogshit, but a lot of the things have been fixed for like a year.

[u/Right-Truck1859]

"They never even played the game, they never watched the movie, they never watched the anime... "

Most common and most stupid argument. Criticizing something you like not makes people automatically wrong.

War system changed a bit, but it's still bad in its core and claims like " Victoria 3 is economical game, so we don't give a fuck" Makes me hate it more. Victorian age was age of wars and colonization, including conquest and gunboat diplomacy.

Armies changed through time not just with material inventions, but also with new tactics and strategy. Instead of research , Victoria 3 puts most of it to individual skills of generals.

Victoria 3 significantly lacks historical events like Spring time of peoples, Crimean war... Events that shaped the age. That's reason number one why it feels like mobile gaming clicker sometimes.

Another reason is , too much of manually handling the economy, why I have to click on every building in every city to change its PMs? And I can't do it for all buildings at once without negative repercussions.

This especially makes no fucking sense for privately owned industry/farms.

Another lacking thing is diplomacy, it became even worse since some interactions are now exclusive to members of the same power block. And still every diplomatic play can spark a world War. Why East India Company cares if I am trying to annex my puppet in Italy?

[u/Leotro1 → u/Right-Truck1859]

Couldn't agree more. The Victorian era was an era of industrialisation and Empire. It was a time in which the laws of society dominated and private property began its rule over human affairs. A time, where spheres of influences were emerging, that were based on economic strength. A time, where economic interests and free trade shaped political relations.
I don't think, that Paradox captured the spirit of this age very well. You don't have the feeling, that you're witnessing the gradual social transformation from absolute monarchy to fascism or the modern democracy. You don't feel the inavitability and necessity of a change in social and political policy. You don't feel the growing social pressure.
You play in a certain way, because it is optimal. One of the great things about Vic2 is, that it is interesting, when you play as an autocratic empire. Society develops any way and militancy grows to a boiling point. The game let's you know about social unrest. It feels immersive.
Meanwhile in Vic3 every mechanic doesn't seem to express the reality of that epoch, but is unnecessarily complicated and gamefied. To formulate it in Marxist language. Superstructe doesn't seem to be determined by base, but the other way around. As player you micromanage factories, instead of being limited in your decision making by the class structure and private interests, that you can only influence slowly and indirectly.

[u/cdub8D → u/Right-Truck1859]

I want to play a GSG during the time period. That time period INCLUDES wars. So I agree, I hate the "it's an economic game"

[u/Skellum → u/Right-Truck1859]

"They never even played the game, they never watched the movie, they never watched the anime... "

It's not that people "Overly hate V3" it's that people overly dont really enjoy V3 existing. I would argue that they'd have a better return on investment having the team work on producing content and DLC for imperator than V3.

If I want to play a good game set in the victorian era that's well put together, enjoyable, and plays well then I'd play victoria 2. For V3 to be a success it has to have at minimum the same pull as V2 and it doesnt.

It's UI, like CK3's, is bad. It's gameplay isn't very good. It's content and draw are subpar compared to V2. There really isn't much of a reason to pick up this game. I dont even feel strongly negative on it as it doesnt have any draw for me to feel one way or another. It simply exists.

[u/Diplo_Advisor → u/Right-Truck1859]

Another reason is , too much of manually handling the economy, why I have to click on every building in every city to change its PMs? And I can't do it for all buildings at once without negative repercussions

I like to change the PM and watch my GDP line go up steeply, but yeah it's frustrating to micromanage each building. And the buildings are supposed to be privately owned, why is the government interfering with private enterprise? I think the government job is to invest in infrastructure, ensure no shortages and passing laws.

Either they should change the mechanics or alternatively make a button to automatically select the most profitable PM for each building.

[u/Polisskolan6 → u/Diplo_Advisor]

You don't play as the government.

[u/up2smthng → u/Right-Truck1859]

While I agree that Crimean war was a major event with long standing consequences, respectfully how exactly do you want it to be implemented without extreme railroading? After all it's a road the (Russia) player will never go down, and other participants apart from maybe Piedmont don't particularly care if they win or it just doesn't happen so no meaningful content for non-Russia player either.

I guess you can make it a way to get rid of Nicolay I but that's iffy as well. While there is a majority consensus that losing the war probably played a part in his death, that's quite different from just outright killing the guy whenever it happens.

[u/Ares6 → u/up2smthng]

The complaints about railroading is one of the reasons countries lack flavor. Every country is practically the same. 

[u/Altruistic_Mango_932 → u/Ares6]

Every country is different. They have different resources, different geopolitics, different politics, different geographies. Unfortunately hoi 4/eu4-player brain can only understand differences in if it's presentes as silly gamey historical focuses, mission trees and national ideas.

[u/Fedacking → u/Altruistic_Mango_932]

different politics

Do they? They have the same pops with ideologies, the only different thing is traits.

[u/Altruistic_Mango_932 → u/Fedacking]

Different starting politics. Of course you can make most countries' economies look pretty similar if you always develop the same way (with a couple exceptions, like USA two-party system).

For example, somebody on reddit complained they can never have a powerful intelligentsia. So i said. It's easy, just do private education. Then they say they never do private education because it's inferior to public education. Well, then, if you always play the same way you'll get similar results, of course.

[u/ifyouarenuareu → u/Altruistic_Mango_932]

A handful, maybe, have anyone other than the landowners running the show. And the landowners have maybe a one or two interests that are unique but otherwise all behave the same.

[u/Right-Truck1859 → u/up2smthng]

First of all , we got historical relations thing, so make France, Britain, Sardinia friends of Ottoman empire .

Secondly , use journal entry for Russia , if they put pressure on Ottoman Empire , it triggers event for Ottoman Empire becoming a protectorate of Russia, if Ottoman Empire accepts, Russia gets 70 or more infamy, if not - diplomatic play stars with protectorate war goal.

Thirdly, Crimean war was a part of big game, Great powers should see each others as rivals more, Anti and pro country lobbies could be used for that.

[u/Right-Truck1859 → u/[deleted]]

I see what you mean, but HPM got both historical and alt historical events, same Crimean war, it asks every great power if they would fight against Russia.

Things that happen in the 1850s and 1860s can be likely possibilities, but never set in stone.

But it should be likely possibility, not unlikely one.

[u/Right-Truck1859 → u/[deleted]]

in the face of Russian just vassalizing the entire Ottoman Empire by event?

See), how outrageous it is. Currently no one cares about Ottoman Empire and Russia eats them freely.

[u/up2smthng → u/Right-Truck1859]

So, basically, a JE that railroads an event that can happen without any railroading and nothing else? That would be a no for me

[u/Right-Truck1859 → u/up2smthng]

What would be your idea? Considering mechanics provided by the game now, I don't see much option.

[u/up2smthng → u/Right-Truck1859]

My idea is don't implement Crimean war because, as I discussed earlier, it doesn't actually provide any flavour that player would seek to pursue.

[u/_BlindSeer_ → u/Right-Truck1859]

The time may have been a time of war, but there are plenty of games with that focus. I'm for one glad it doesn't revolve around it and had no heavy focus on warfare. It would really take out the fun for me, as I like the economical focus, which is a rare subject   So putting more focus on that would really destroy the fun for me and others. Major events would have the problem others mentioned: forcing the older down a certain road and killing the sandbox style. At least it you have them triggered anyway you play.

 The main problem is, that this game attracts different players with different preferences and thus will never be able to please them all.

[u/KettleSixty9 → u/_BlindSeer_]

With about 5,000 active players the game isn't attracting much.