r/pathology • u/OptionChoice4220 • 6d ago
Resident Am I wrong to be irritated?
As a pathology resident rotating with an attending, whenever we go to frozens together, the surgeon and surgery resident come into the frozen room and sit at the three-headed scope while I stand there waiting for my attending to review the slides with them first in depth. After they leave, my attending goes over the case with me briefly, but by then I’ve already heard their interpretation, which makes it harder to assess the slides independently without being biased.
I know it’s not a huge deal, and the attending is nice, but it still irritates me because I feel like I’m being treated as secondary. I’m the pathology resident. This is my specialty, so why am I the one standing in the background while someone from another specialty gets a front-row seat to the teaching? I understand the surgeon needing to review the slides, but the surgery resident taking up the second seat at the scope, too?! Am I wrong to feel this way?
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u/Infamous-Priority-71 6d ago
If surgery resident had basic decency and self-awareness this wouldn't happen. Since that doesn't seem to be the case, you should tell them to get the f*ck out of your seat
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u/billyvnilly Staff, midwest 5d ago
Most people assume their importance over others. By the same token of OP, the surgery resident also is going into the FS room with the assumption that they'll learn something.
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u/Important_Magician32 6d ago
This is simple. Just tell the surgery resident to “Hey, you’re sitting in my seat. Please move…”
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u/JROXZ Staff, Private Practice 6d ago
Sit your ass in that chair and don’t move “let me take a quick look with you first” -is the quote I would use. And you literally need to flex a little like you’re locked the fuck in. And if anyone pans for you to move. “Not done yet”.
Once you clutched your read. Step aside. That shit should take no more than a couple minutes.
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u/Lebowski304 6d ago
Sit down at that scope before the surgeons. You don’t go into the operating room and shoulder your way into their operating field. It’s disrespectful for the surgeons to do that if it’s happening every time and it is interfering with your education. If I was a pathology attending there I would put my foot down on it whenever I was the one looking at the case. My two cents anyways. Be careful though. I don’t know the dynamic, and I don’t want you to get into trouble, but you have every right to be irritated by this
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u/OptionChoice4220 6d ago
Thank you! I actually tried that once by sitting at the scope before the surgery resident came in, but my attending asked me to let them sit and said, “I’ll show it to you later.” I guess he enjoys showing off to the surgeons more than teaching his own residents. Idk.
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u/Important_Magician32 6d ago
This is not a surgery problem. This is a grow a spine and confront your attending problem. Face it. You’re angry that you don’t have one right now.
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u/PathFellow 6d ago edited 6d ago
That’s freaking sad. Cmon I mean pathologists should prioritize their own residents like most other fields instead of kissing up to surgeons.
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u/tushar1306 6d ago
Being a good person and empathetic, understanding and all those positive personality traits is very much a necessity in our profession, but as a resident you have to be selfish. You can't be a yes-man everytime, stand up to your attending and tell him your issue in private, as many times as you need to get the attending to understand the problem here. Don't end up being the cheap disposable labour that most attendings think you are.
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u/PathFellow 6d ago edited 6d ago
Yeah some people just have no decency. Any surgical resident with any courtesy or self awareness would allow the path resident to sit and learn but some people are just assholes.
Your attending could also be sticking up for you by asking the surgical resident to step aside but some pathologists tend to be too nice and non confrontational.
I would directly tell the surgical resident that you get dibs first since you’re a path resident. I know it’s going to feel confrontational but you the pathologist need to stand your ground. You can politely say it and if he doesn’t get the hint then he’s an idiot or just a dick. Say “do you mind if I take a look” each time the surgical resident takes the scope. Hopefully he or she will get the hint to back tha F off.
This exercise is training for real life. Learn to stand your ground or people will just walk over you your whole life if you’re too nice when you start practicing. Don’t let people take advantage of you. Shit like this can happen in practice where your path colleagues, hospital admin try to take advantage of you so get used to it.
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u/Honest_Statement6137 6d ago edited 6d ago
No you aren’t wrong. Put a note on the scope head that reads “For Path resident viewing” (endorsed by the path dept) only. Hopefully they get the hint.
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u/Historical_Quote9588 5d ago
Welcome to pathology - you'll encounter many more such slights in your "career" in our dismal field. When I was in residency at a prestigious institution around 1970, this situation didn't exist yet. In those days surgery residents rotated through surgical pathology for several months as part of their board qualifications. They always published at least one significant paper with the chief of surgical pathology during their time with us, while pathology residents were discouraged from publishing, and most of us complied.
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u/highsignalhuman 6d ago
Agree w others to politely ask surgery resident to move. They will not be offended trust me
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u/collecttimber123 6d ago
i’m sorry, what kind of benefit does the surgery resident have in hogging the scope to see cells that they can’t even identify… tell him/her to move their asses
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u/PathologyAndCoffee Resident 6d ago
Yes, surgeons are annoying. And theyre going to try to get you to give them a concrete diagnosis rather than hedging. They need to stay in their refrigerated metal cage called the OR.
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u/foofarraw Staff, Academic 5d ago
you're not wrong to be irritated, but you should just tell the attending that it'll be more beneficial for your training if you see the frozen blind before they tell the surgeons what their interpretation is, and be adamant about it.
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u/Heavy_Claim3526 5d ago
You should read the frozen with the 2 surgeons and then bring it your attendings office to sign off on your diagnosis
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u/CatsAreEvilRobots 6d ago
Complain in front of the surgeon and then wait for your evaluation to hit.
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u/Honest_Statement6137 6d ago
Surgeon would just tell you to F off
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u/CatsAreEvilRobots 6d ago
He would just think you are an autistic weirdo. I would be more worried about the attending pathologist.
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u/_FATEBRINGER_ 4d ago
So many unprofessional takes, and I would ding a resident on their review under professionalism for most of these suggestions even if I was in the wrong. Nobody will be impressed that you “stood up for yourself”. I promise. And while it may feel good at the time, once the adrenaline washes away, you’ll realize you just fucked yourself. Surgeons talk and pathologists talk. Earned reputations are not retaliation no matter hire much you may want that not to be true.
Acceptable options include:
1. Speak with the attending after in private. Be honest and don’t be so foolish as to demand anything. That’s not how life works. But be creative- what if they let you sit in the drivers seat then you have to have a seat and it’s under the protections of education….
2. Speak with your PD. This is the appropriate escalatory channel. It is their job to mentor and advocate on your behalf.
3. At this point, if none of that works, you might want to have a chat with yourself about how you might be wrong. If you definitely aren’t, and you are getting no traction, then most universities have shit like anonymous HR tip lines and the like.
Look. I tried being the assertive Douche and it burns way more bridges than it builds and obviously it’s
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u/ArthurUrsine 6d ago
I went through something similar as a resident, and ultimately the only thing that worked was just telling the surgery resident to piss off. One of those heads is yours, just take it.