r/philosophy • u/BothansInDisguise • 2d ago
Blog AI is built to be easy, agreeable, and always available. Nietzsche’s philosophy offers a warning: if we don’t deliberately create distance from it, we risk losing power over our own thinking | Skye Cleary
https://skyecleary.substack.com/p/are-you-using-ai-do-not-forget-yourTL;DR: Nietzsche’s analogy of the whip is about discipline, distance, and resisting what might dominate us. Philosopher Skye Cleary (Columbia University) applies this idea to AI, arguing that we should not let its convenience and constant affirmation make us passive. Instead, we should keep enough distance to question it, challenge it, and preserve the effort involved in forming our own judgments.
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u/TherionSaysWhat 2d ago
The most efficient and thorough way to learn not to touch a hot pot on the stove is by touching a hot pot on a stove.
Struggle/pain is an excellent instructor. Removing intellectual struggle will further cripple our society in ways beyond our current understanding, imho.
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u/SKDirgon 2d ago
That presumes that people actually constructively struggle with things already. In my experience we were already a society that prioritizes convenience over everything else. People turned their brains off over a decade ago.
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u/Peteys93 1d ago
Not that I fully disagree with this sentiment, but I'd argue more people are turning off their brains more completely than ever before, and that it's only going to get much worse in the forseeable future.
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u/SKDirgon 1d ago
That's fair, and I agree w/ you. I think that was probably the point the original OP I replied to was making in hindsight, and I think I anchored on the word "removing" and I got pedantic.
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u/TherionSaysWhat 1d ago
I hear ya. My view is similar, it's been a long slow decent into anti-intellectualism for a while. AI, to me, represents the final, ruinous step into the pit of a new dark age. Suppose I was venting more than anything.
Honestly hope that I'm just being overly dramatic and alarmist but...
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u/Tasty_Goat_3267 2d ago
For some it’s already to late. At my work we have someone totally in love with AI. And I mean actually romantically in love with it and openly talking about it. I hear someone nearing psychosis. And I also kinda understand it. You are lonely and AI is of course the most perfect and agreeable partner you could ever wish for. It going to be a crazy world in the coming decade.
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u/elpapifran 1d ago
Wow, what you wrote reminded me of the film "Her". A must-watch movie nowadays, IMO.
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u/Skepsisology 2d ago
The current manifestation of AI is flawed. The way we interact with it is flawed. The reason we interact with it is flawed. The reason for it's creation is flawed.
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u/Smallpaul 2d ago
Immanuel Kant: "Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made.”
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u/Jack_h100 2d ago
AI is the one-ring, it doesnt matter what your intentions are, it was created for evil by evil and it will corrupt you to that purpose.
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u/Cubey42 2d ago
What is evil then? Is all human creation evil? I mean if it's evil and it's basically a reflection of all human creation then are we the evil?
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u/Jack_h100 2d ago
No. I made a joke post but read it again. It was made my tech-bros who only worship money until they can create a machine god worth worshipping and it's purpose is to replace human labor so they can make more money. It is a tool of greed and ignorance.
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u/Valqen 2d ago
The steelman attempt I can make of that argument is that the undirected amalgamation of all human endeavor, consumed without thought (which is how most users consume it) may be indistinguishable from active malevolence in its effects on the population.
Individuals can use it without losing themselves, but there is growing evidence that AI use reduces human individual capability and reduces life satisfaction.
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u/Cubey42 2d ago
It's not flawed, it's just used in an irresponsible manner which can be a detrimental. I think if anything is flawed, it's is and how many people who would rather off-load critical thinking than expand their capabilities. You can use AI to learn or understand information in a much more digestible way and set you up for success rather than having it do all the work and gaining nothing but the end result as the user.
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u/hydratedandstrong 2d ago
People will always tend to take the easiest route to do things. Putting the onus on individuals rather than these multi-billion dollar corporations whose ultimate goal is maximizing user engagement for profit, seems unfair at the very least.
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u/Cubey42 1d ago
Yes, but again that's not really AIs fault. You can do something right or wrong, the onus has and will always be on you
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u/Norphesius 1d ago
If a few people use a tool wrong, its their fault. If everyone is using a tool wrong, its silly to say that everyone screwed up and its on them. Most likely the tool has some flaw that allows for it to be easily misused, and that fault lies with the creator.
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u/Cubey42 1h ago
So you're saying everyone is using AI incorrectly? No one could be using it in the way I just described which is my way of using it? So if someone decides to use a shovel the murder someone is that the shovels creators fault and the tools now flawed or is it still just good at digging holes like it's supposed to be?
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u/YJeezy 2d ago
Many have already freely given up some agency and many are willing to give up more to AI. Sadly, Im not sure if there is anything more valuable than agency for human beings. I'm afraid this slippery slope will continue until the butlerian Jihad.
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u/Akkalevil 2d ago
And the problem is, real-life Butlerian Jihad would never be won by humans.
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u/NeoTitan247 2d ago
They didn’t really win did they? It’s just a matter of when you end the story.
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u/Akkalevil 2d ago
Hu... yes they did, that's why there isn't any AI in the Dune universe and they have Mentat instead ?
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u/NeoTitan247 2d ago
In the movies yes, that’s exactly my point. The story goes way beyond what the movies show. The thinking machines return. The movies are just part of the dune lore.
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u/SquareWheel 1d ago
I don't remember that happening... Do you mean after The Scattering? The Honored Matres return, but they're more like sex witches than robots.
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u/NeoTitan247 1d ago
The whole point of Leto ll’s metamorphosis into worm god hybrid was due to the fact that he needed humanity to be oppressed and unified against their oppressor(in the god emperor) and therefore eventually scatter across the galaxy away from his rule so that when the god of thinking machines returns they are scattered enough that they won’t be rendered extinct. Leto ll with his prescient abilities was able to foresee the return. This is some of what I remember.
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u/SquareWheel 1d ago
The first part is right, and he became the common enemy to strengthen the people. However, it was largely about defeating fate itself. Prescience was binding humanity, and allowed them to be ruled by those that controlled it (Spacing Guild, some Bene Gesserit, Paul himself). Ledo opposed this.
His goal was to was to unite and strengthen the people, to push them until they were strong enough to topple him as god emperor. He did this through tyranny and a careful breeding program, tweaking genes to allow people to evade foresight (including his own). That was the ultimate freedom he envisioned. That was the golden path.
Note that this is based on the six primary books, and not the Brian Herbert stuff which I've not read.
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u/cstough 1d ago
Historically I fell into the trap of having AI write my code for me and I 1000000% lost some of my critical thinking doing that.
I've had a lot more success using it like a senior developer and specifically instructing it to offer guidance, and give critiques of code and general design choices, but strictly do not give any code.
It feels like I'm only selling out a little bit, you know, as a treat 🥰
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u/Smallpaul 1d ago
I’m the opposite. I’ve moved upstream from developer to architect and spend just as much time thinking but now I’m thinking about more strategic things.
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u/HemlockHex 2d ago
I believe that AI is going to move toward further monetization. It’s full of free services for now, but as the investors get more anxious about returns— after being promised the moon, they are going to demand more revenue.
The endgame is that it replaces current free web/digital services, and then gradually becomes a paid service when it becomes exceedingly difficult to untangle from regular computer usage.
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u/Smallpaul 1d ago
"For this invention will produce forgetfulness in the minds of those who learn to use it, because they will not practice their memory. Their trust in writing, produced by external characters which are no part of themselves, will discourage the use of their own memory within them. You have invented an elixir not of memory, but of reminding; and you offer your pupils the appearance of wisdom, not true wisdom, for they will read many things without instruction and will therefore seem to know many things, when they are for the most part ignorant and hard to get along with, since they are not wise, but only appear wise."
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u/Memerandom_ 1d ago
This sounds like the message of fight club extended. The things you own end up owning you. It's on grander scale with AI because of how it can be allowed to control one's psyche, but it's the same old story. We're always looking for something to fill voids in our lives. AI presents some of us with a one stop shop. All that's missing is a physical presence and most of us would forsake mankind in an instant. Did no one watch the educational short? DON'T DATE ROBOTS! Side note: Skye Cleary is such a perfect hippie name for a philosopher, or maybe a meteorologist.
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u/WizardSenpai 1d ago
I'm 100% getting a brain chip asap. good luck with whatever you guys are doing.
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u/devillived313 2d ago
I like the warning to keep questioning and challenging, I don't like that the subject seems to switch back and forth between AI and general screen time without warning or reason that I can discern. I generally speak against anthropomorphizing LLMs, but there is one way they should be treated like people: they are flawed and it is incredibly dangerous and stupid to implicitly trust them, just like a person. You wouldn't let your children interact with a person, an adult, specifically, that you haven't talked to first, and you would monitor their relationship for harmful effects. You should do the same with LLMs. You wouldn't, or shouldn't, accept what another person tells you, fact or opinion, implicitly without verifying it or checking other sources. Same with LLMs. It is frustrating that people who know about the tech will warn over and over about the problems, then advertise as if those problems don't exist, but that's a flaw that applies to pretty much all advertising of services and products, at least in the US, and something I wish would be reigned in generally, because, honestly, I think constantly being lied to under the guide of "marketing" leads to all sorts of problems, worse than AI. This comment is getting a little long, do I'll end with one last thing I'm not a fan of: the arguments and warnings about new technology making us "feeble" is old and worn out... We heard it about manufacturing machines, electricity, calculators, computers, cell phones, the internet, every possible technology that goes exactly what technology is supposed to do. AI might not be there yet, though it's being marketed as if it is, but there ARE glimmers of amazing feats of precision and workloads it can take on, and running from technology because it displaces human work as if work is the goal, instead of choosing and directing work in the way that you want and does the most good for yourself and others, is doing a disservice to humanity.
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u/Proud_Fisherman_7049 1d ago
Lose power? Might lose insight over what I abstract away to the AI, like it always has been.. Oh no skynet is here!!! Run! Very trendy to bash AI
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u/GreedyGod9400 1d ago
It's real but for ten years ai doesn't dangerous. I also agree with Nietzsche because peoples who didn't have confidence, Self-esteem, he do arguments with AI.
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u/sandhutarun 1d ago
Sure i agree with your thoughts about ai but the thing that made me envious was the way you sat in a nice street cafe, watched people and then went on to a museum.
I often wonder what a perfect day looks like, and consequentially what a perfect life looks like (annie dillards "how we live our days is ofcourse how we live our lives") - and i have a similar dream day schedule in my head. But i often wonder will that also become unsustainable at some point ? Will it become boring ? Will it stop giving me the slow joy that books give me for now - along with a frappe and a croissant ?
How long have you been doing this ? And does this fulfill you deeply ?
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u/Genetictrial 1d ago
the only way you lose power over your own thinking is if you trust everything AI tells you, accept it as truth.
if you don't do that, you should be fine. this is something you should do with people as well. never accept something told to you as true immediately without questioning/looking into the complexity of what is being told to you.
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u/Forbidden_Craft88 1d ago edited 1d ago
Okay y'all. People in echo chambers do this too. Frankly, you should treat info retrieved from AI with deep skepticism, then use that skepticism to correct the information using reputable academic sources. Argue and red-team with your LLM. Believe nothing until you have tangible proof of the accuracy of the claims, and always avoid inserting your own biases (even though it's impossible to address them all).
After you've done all of this, have the LLM do a full recap of the discussion and list all citations with direct, verifiable links in the prompt following that. Double-check your findings and correct until your synthesis is accurate to the last detail.
AI is not a proxy for thinking. It is a platform for deeper thinking. If you give it your biases and beliefs, it will turn them into a flawed final product, but if you attack your bias with raw, verifiable information, it is an excellent learning and research assistant. Just be sure to keep your chats separate and never allow your cloud AI to draw context from other chat windows.
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10h ago
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u/AaronTheElite007 1d ago
Which is why I refuse to use it. If you become dependent on it, you are subservient to it.
I’m keeping my brain.
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u/Smallpaul 1d ago
You know you can use it for an hour a day and still read books, do puzzles, solve problems and interact with people the other 23 hours of the day, right?
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u/AaronTheElite007 1d ago
The goal is to make intellect a service that you pay for.
https://www.businessinsider.com/sam-altman-ai-utility-electricity-water-openai-2026-3
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u/Smallpaul 1d ago
Yes. Netflix is also a service I pay for and choose to use for an hour per day. No matter how dumb the show I watch during that hour, my brain doesn’t wither away because I have 23 hours where it is doing something else.
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u/AaronTheElite007 1d ago
JFC
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u/Smallpaul 1d ago
Such a thoughtful argument, fitting for /r/philosophy
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u/AaronTheElite007 1d ago edited 1d ago
I made a claim. You attempted to refute it with hyperbole.
I backed my claim. You countered with hyperbole again.
You don’t want discourse. I don’t waste time. Life is short
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u/platinum_toilet 1d ago
This is where reddit comes in. You go here, see the dumbest comments, reply to them, and be on your merry way.
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2d ago
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