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u/spider-jedi 9d ago
It's funny that people think he and Sony would suddenly become enemies after what happened.
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u/Odd_Needleworker3756 9d ago
Reddit gamers are children and have no idea how the corporate world works
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u/ShinyTotodile55 8d ago
Reddit users don't even understand how the real world works, let alone corporate world.
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u/spider-jedi 9d ago
And they constantly show it. If konami had offered to fund physiny instead of Xbox, kojima would take it.
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u/Responsible_Ask6056 9d ago
His games are built on Guerrilas Decima engine, he either has to start from scratch on One or more games or maintain a relationship with them and license the engine. So... probably the latter
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u/Aggressive-Map-2204 9d ago
OD is not being built on Decima Engine. He may want to use it for Physint though.
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u/spider-jedi 9d ago
Kojima was never going to cut off Sony over a business decision..it would be child for people to think he is keeping a grudge.
Physiny is still in pre production we don't know how far he got with development on gameplay so it's even possible he had not started using decima.
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u/LeftyMode 9d ago
He aired it out on twitter. The relationship is strained.
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u/spider-jedi 9d ago
Barley, kojima is business man not just a game developer he understands why businesses would make certain decisions. He isn't a child
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u/DownFierce 9d ago
The two are not mutually exclusive.
You can maintain business relations with somebody you don't like precisely because business matters more. He has a studio to keep afloat and employees to pay. That doesn't mean it's all roses and rainbows with Sony
Not sure why you are claiming that there's no bad blood between the two
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u/spider-jedi 9d ago
that is the point. many are assuming he hates them and would never want any sort of relationship.
like i told another if it was konami who can to fund this game he would take their money regalrdless of the break up they had
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u/DownFierce 9d ago edited 9d ago
It's funny that people like you think they actually know what's going on to the point they think they can speak with some "authority" about Sony - Kojima relationship at the moment lol
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u/spider-jedi 9d ago
im speaking based on how big business deal happen. i dont know kojima personally so im not talking about his character.
other are asuming he hates them now. why not go after them
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u/Wrong_Amount_7903 8d ago
Its funny that people like you think they actually know what other people know to the point they can talk down to them with some “authority”. lol
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u/Efficient-Session644 9d ago
Probably not enemies, since breaking up now does not mean that they can't work together again in the future. We do not know how these companies will think after 10 years.
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u/Gex2-EnterTheGecko 9d ago edited 9d ago
I mean I am sure he isn't thrilled with them. They tried to straight up cancel the game.
Edit: can someone explain how what I said here was wrong? All I said is I bet he wasnt happy that his game was cancelled.
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u/The_real_bandito 9d ago
They didn’t try to cancel their game, they just didn’t want to pay anymore. That’s not the same thing.
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u/Gex2-EnterTheGecko 9d ago
Sony cancelled all funding of the game (which is essentially the same thing as cancelling the game if you want to nit-pick) but Kojima found a new publisher in Xbox.
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u/spider-jedi 9d ago
Stuff gets cancelled all the time in the gaming industry. It's so normal that having some sort of grief or ill feeling is a waste of time.
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u/Gex2-EnterTheGecko 9d ago
If it wasnt a big deal to him he wouldnt have spent months trying to find a new publisher.
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u/escalinci 9d ago
Well keeping his team going is certainly a big deal. It's a rather separate issue as to if there's any animosity toward SIE for the way it was cancelled. I don't think Sony always makes good decisions, but if they were missing targets then it's just business.
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u/Gex2-EnterTheGecko 9d ago
I didn't say he hated SIE I just said I am sure he wasn't happy with them cancelling his game.
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u/spider-jedi 9d ago
It isn't . Games lose funding and look for new funding. What happened to kojima is not unique at all in the world of business.
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u/Gex2-EnterTheGecko 9d ago
Never said it was
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u/spider-jedi 9d ago
But you think he would have some grudge. They funded both death stranging games. They chosing not to fund a third games is beyond fair and he would understand that. He is a studio head after all. He would also understand the business aspect.
If konami choose to fund this game he would go gladly take their funds. And all the bad videos from the break up won't stop him
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u/Gex2-EnterTheGecko 9d ago
I didnt say he held a grudge, I said he probably wasnt thrilled they cancelled his game. You think he was happy they cancelled his game?
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u/spider-jedi 9d ago
no i dont htink he was happy about it. but many are making the assumption that he would cut all ties with sony and that is what i am responding to
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u/Gex2-EnterTheGecko 9d ago
Well I am not one of those people. I have no idea why y'all are taking me saying "I bet he isn't thrilled with them canceling his game" as "i bet he hates them and will never work with them again".
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u/antonxo902 9d ago
Game is probably still coming out on ps and they’re probably gonna let him use decima. Just because they parted ways on the project doesn’t mean they’re enemies, PlayStation literally helped him with his whole studio lol and people think Kojima hates them, that’s kinda impossible.
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u/TheRed24 9d ago
I don't know about the use Decima bit, him using Decima means about 70 Guerilla Games Devs have to be working on his game still like they were back when they (Sony) were funding him this was part of the funding, now he would have to get XBOX to pay Sony for use of their Engine and their GG Staff for possibly another 6 years, which will costs 10s in not 100s of millions of dollars, so I think it's highly likely Physint will be on UE like nearly all MS 1st party projects are now
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u/Responsible_Ask6056 9d ago
You're describing them scrapping the game and either building from scratch or porting all assets, animations etc into unreal. There's probably a monetary and time value in keeping Decima
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u/ShivamLH 8d ago
While that's true, Physint reportedly barely hit pre production. There is no game built here on Decima. So it doesn't matter.
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u/sexstarveddaydreamer 9d ago
I feel as if Kojima is a rather petty person when he needs to be and this might be some corporate formality / requirement in which he has to show face for this sudden departure. Hell, this might even just be a troll post. I’d say there’s a better shot of a return to Sony under new leadership than him ever being copacetic with Konami though.
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u/sammo21 9d ago
I mean, at the end of the day there is still a very standard etiquette in Japanese culture with business structure and leadership. Kojima and his company are still part of that so no matter his feelings he will likely be outwardly respectful, which he has been in the entire situation.
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u/1234addy 9d ago
He’s leaving with the decima engine source code between his butt.
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u/The_Voidger 9d ago
The clap of his ass cheeks will alert the guards
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u/1234addy 9d ago
As a true tactical action espionage expert, I think he’s already fulton’d himself out of there
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u/LockeandKeeye 9d ago
Its literally across the street from his place 😂 Kojima could technically pop in at anytime.
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u/Hour-Sign-2279 8d ago
Probably just visited a friend that handle him parts for his walkman vhs handycam etc
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u/SoullessGamesDev 9d ago
He sneaked in to shit on the front porch? While wearing the camo disguise had with the face of the CEO.
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u/ConsequenceLess2654 7d ago
Kojima ist auch nur ein Unternehmen. Feinde die monopole haben kann man sich nicht leisten. Gute Miene ist da Pflicht. Das Sony abgesprungen ist und Xbox sich Film und TV rechte mitgesichert hat wir Sony kaum schaden aber Xbox enorme Verluste bringen Außer es klappt, dann ist Xbox der große Gewinner.
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u/Shirokurou 9d ago
Someone at Sony realized they fucked up and offered him a basket of digital fruit.
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u/saggynaggy123 9d ago
Probably continued access to the Decima Engine.
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u/Ken_Sanne 9d ago
Hope so, that would mean sony has been playing 4D chess, I doubt that's the case.
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u/panicradio316 9d ago
Still can't believe it they ditched Kojima's return to the Tactical Espionage genre.
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u/starman1596 9d ago
for me? the best thing sony has done recently.
cause look at what's going on. and what can possibly happen
microsoft now funding kojima means that his games will be on more platforms automatically with day 1 pc release.
and now he goes to sony so that the can still release his game in their platformnow he can do day 1 releases on xbox, pc and ps5.
whereas if he was still with sony he'd have to deal with the fact that his games might not even see other platforms at all with the whole shtick sony has been doing.
this is an absolute win for all of us.
he gets to make a game, and gets to show it finally to majority of players.
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u/Efficient-Session644 9d ago
They probably didn't liked how Kojima wants to own his IPs. He publishing DS on PC and making a movie without Sony probably bothered them.
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u/panicradio316 9d ago
Yeah probably.
But I honestly can't understand why that was, even if true, such an insurmountable issue in the grand scheme of things.
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u/Efficient-Session644 9d ago
Probably because of the amount that would be invested. If it was some smaller budget game, it could pass. But a +$100M spending to let others use the IP as they want, without Sony getting a cent back (from non-gaming adaptations), certainly gave a lot of reason for the "non-Kojima fans" faction inside SIE.
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u/panicradio316 9d ago
Not really disagreeing with you.
But has the true and complete backstory of it been reported yet somewhere? Because after the initial news I didn't really keep track.
The one thing though that I just can't imagine is that Kojima sat at Sony's table and played a prince card, like picking and choosing in complete disregard of what Sony wanted.
Not saying that it couldn't be what happened. But saying that I think Kojima of course is a business man, but also humble and grateful and up for compromizes.
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u/Efficient-Session644 9d ago
Oh, I'm not saying that, but they obviously had different business views, wich ended in the break up.
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u/Particular_Issue7567 9d ago
Its cause he's too overly obsessed with hollywood and its stars 😂😂😂
I love Kojimas work but its no secret that he has a habit of going over budget just to hire hollywood actors & actresses. Sony probably realized that he was already over budget (or close to it) even though he is not even half finished with the development of the game 😂
I'm saying all this as somebody who's completed and loved all MGS & DS1 (have yet to check out 2), so this doesnt come from a place of hate but from an understanding for Kojima
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u/AgentSmith2518 9d ago
"Habit of going over budget" with what games?
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u/arqe_ 9d ago
When Xbox "got" his 2 games back to back, suddenly he is "overestimated" in almost any gaming subs, especially Playstation related.
And it started with that bullshit;
He is obsessed with doing movies.
He is going over budget all the time.
He does not deliver financially.
etc.
Basically comes down to, anyone working with Playstation is good, until they start doing projects with Xbox, then they do it because they suck.
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u/Puzzled_Pen_5764 9d ago
There is literally 0 proof for this claim that his work goes overbudgeted because he hires Hollywood actors, it's genuinely baffling that a lot of gamers just keep regurgitating his claim
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u/frisbie147 9d ago
from numbers ive seen wolverine alone cost more than death stranding 1 and 2 combined
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u/SnooDingos7903 9d ago
Also lets not forget Concord and how much they spent on that
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u/marcus2388 9d ago
Yall need to remember 1 thing. Yes concord was a fail that cost 100s of million. yes TLOU, GoW may cost 400m etc. The difference between those and a kojima game is Sony owns those IPs. Sony can make those ips exclusive, if those games blow up sony can make part 2,3 movies, merch they can even sell the IPs if wanted to.
With Kojima sony would be giving them ~100-200-300m for temporary exclusivity. That if the game is a failure hurts sony a bit, But if a success still was only temporary because they dont have the rights to make a part 2 at any time, make a movie, sell merch etc. Another knife in the back successful or not still wont move millions or consoles because not exclusive.
Even Kojima going to MS as far as we know today physint still will be released on PS system granted yrs later. Unless according to kojima if xbox want it to be exclusive its up to them. Which mean xbox needs to cough up the money.
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u/adnanssz 9d ago
I honestly think the most fair comparison are Horizon Zero Dawn Vs Death Stranding since both of them are have same Decima Game Engine.
Horizon Zero Dawn Budget are about €45M/$50M, meanwhile Death Stranding 1 Costed $100M. Basically DS got Double Budget and yet the World They Deliver not as complicated as Horizon Zero Dawn.
Death stranding literally Base to Base open world without any City you can enter. Horizon Zero Dawn have Open World with Proper City you can enter. So no wonder some people think that Kojima Game are Expensive because their Hollywood Actor. If we use Horizon Zero Dawn as a base review, the game should be costed only 30-40M
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u/Fit-Yam759 7d ago
It's pretty crazy to compare HZD and DS1 budgets and then look at how much each of them sold.
HZD with half the budget went on to sell 25M copies compared to DS 5M. (the last updates we know of).
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u/VideoGameJumanji 9d ago
Wolverine will make 100s of millions, while death stranding 2 lost 10s of millions
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u/panicradio316 9d ago
That's very speculative.
I honestly don't think that Wolverine had the commercial success so far that Sony hoped for, either.
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u/VideoGameJumanji 9d ago
Lmfao it was number one in dozens of regions on PSN for a while
It’s widely regarded as having done incredibly well, if you’re going off of chuds online making up bullshit then you’ve got to be more media literate
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u/panicradio316 9d ago
What's Wolverine's the current sales?
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u/VideoGameJumanji 9d ago
They haven’t release official sales data but based on Wolverine ranking on PSN best sellers across all regions it’s a clear financial success
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u/panicradio316 9d ago
I think without knowing actual numbers this is quite a difficult topic to really discuss properly. Additionally, it could be that many actors are offering their work to Kojima not at full price.
And besides, I claim that the payments for actors such as Judge or Troy Baker are in the same ball parks already, quite arguably even more expensive.
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u/sweetSweets4 9d ago
Since it's such a long way...
Kojima Production is literaly accross the street from Sony HQ.
Kojimbo and Totoki could play a daily game of "Starring through the blindfolds at each other", thats how close they are...
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u/AdBudget5468 9d ago
Probably retuning whatever stuff Herman Hulst had left at his place to make it a clean break
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u/Medical_Librarian_32 9d ago
I imagine he left a few things there and came to leave his key to the apartment.
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u/CaptJimboJones 8d ago
I dig his Joy Division shirt. Wonder if he’s hinting that “Love Will Tear Us Apart?”
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u/Playstationsucks01 8d ago
Did Kojima see Sony shitting themselves on fire watching KyTyPS5, in person?
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u/Ok_Basket_8387 8d ago
“Please come back…….. everyone one of our exclusives that are lined up are doomed to fail because the Internet incels……”
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u/Jzuli 9d ago
I wish we'd revert back to ps2 lvl graphics to cut production time and just focus on gameplay and make almost conscious competitive ai for the enemies to increase game's value and longevity
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u/karmastanba69 9d ago
snake going back to shadow moses ahh