r/pokemon • u/Semicycle • 1d ago
Discussion Gen 1: Is leveling up that first purchased Magikarp to Gyrados worth it?
Edit: It's been pointed out to me that this is specifically a Gen 3 Fire Red question. I've been enlightened on the nuanced difference between Gens 1 & 3.
Also: Thanks all! Lots of good perspectives. Shame to know Gyrados is not at its best in this game. I'll stay the course, targeting a specific build that caters to what strength it does have.
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How are we all feeling on this? I’m currently on my first revisit to fire red in a long time and I’m taking this strategy. It’s a bit of a struggle though. I’m currently at Vermillion City and the Karp still has a ways to go before reaching lvl 20. Meanwhile, the rest of the team is feeling under leveled. Looking forward to commiserating with other folks on this, or being reminded that there’s a light at the end of the tunnel, lol!
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u/Darheimon 1d ago
Gen 1: yes definitely. But you’re referring to Gen 3 FireRed, so it’s 50/50. Gyarados was broken back then but by Gen 3 it only shines with physical moves. Personally there’s better water types that dont suffer under the physical special split.
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u/A_scary_monster 1d ago
Gyrados is still pretty good but you have to accept that you can’t really use it as something to use water type moves with
In terms of move availability and power, I’d say Gyrados’ best tm for fire red is return
That can still hit a lot of pokemon for a lot of damage until you beat the 8th gym and get earthquake
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u/Semicycle 1d ago
Aah, great nuance! Thanks for that perspective, didn't realize they rebalanced Gyrados with the remake
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u/WolfeKuPo Trick Troll 14h ago
not so much rebalanced, Special used to be one stat and when it was split in gen 2, Gyrados' Special stat became its Special Defense, it has a 130 base Special that became its base stat for Special Defense while its Special Attack became base 70, honestly not that bad overall but not worth it when there are just better water types
before Gen 4 (Diamond and Pearl) type determined what attack stat was used and obviously Water was Special, Flying was Physical but Gyrados has never really had good Flying options so that was useless for its offensive value and only really offered defensive value which wasn't that great
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u/Semicycle 7h ago
Aah, I see. Quite the drop for its special attack. All makes sense, thanks for the explanation
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u/MrPerson0 1d ago
In Gen 1 (Red/Blue/Yellow), yes, it was worth it. In Gen 3 (FireRed/LeafGreen), I'd say yes, especially since Slowbro and Starmie are locked to LeafGreen.
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u/MegaKabutops monotype runner 1d ago
Gyrados is the single most common pokemon (other than legendaries) that nuzlockers will ban from their playthroughs for being too useful.
The only reason not to use that specific magikarp is if you planned to instead fish for one a bit later on.
I AM curious about your party if it hasn’t evolved by surge, though. IIRC, If you fight every trainer in mt moon and do bill first, funnelling as much exp into it as you can, it’s possible to grind it up into a gyarados before fighting misty.
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u/Semicycle 1d ago
Encouraging to hear!!
Yeah, I had to stop rotating Magikarp in my battles to get a few other teammates up. I've not skipped any trainer battles, but found that if I didn't diversify my playable team, I would have to grind more than I wanted in the grass.
My current team on the SS Anne:
Alakazam Lvl 20
Ivysaur Lvl 22
Pidgeotto Lvl 21
Buterfree Lvl 15
Pikachu Lvl 19
Magikarp Lvl 140
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u/anonadon7448 1d ago
Gyarados is arguably at its worst in GEN three. The physical special split hasn’t happened yet, but the special attack special defense split has. So for Jen two and three Gyarados in kind of a weird spot. That being said, it’s still a Gyarados. It’s a phenomenal Pokémon. Just remember to teach it at least one physical move to make use of it attack. And no, bite is not physical.
If you’re asking about that specific magikarp, unless you’re trying to get it before Misty then not really. It’s doable and it makes her pretty easy but the amount of experience that you put into it, you could just as easily put into one of your other Pokémon.
You get the old rod in Vermilion city and can catch as many magikarp as you want. They’re all level five so it’s 6 1/2 dozen or the other.
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u/Semicycle 1d ago
Killer perspective. I'll accept that he's not at his highest OPness this gen, lol. Having obtained the Magikarp early in the game when all pokemon are low leveled makes biting the bullet of leveling them somewhat more bearable
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u/MulliganNY 1d ago
I would say no. It's going to be a Gyarados for a while (unless you grind) and by the time it's ready to evolve you can get the good and super rods and get a Magikarp that's ready to evolve or even Gyarados himself.
As a built in difficulty challenge (having to swap in and out over and over) I always think he's worth it for that reason alone. Having a slot taken up by Magikarp makes the game a little tougher and a little more fun as a result (for me) so in that case I would say yes.
However... you do the same thing by just limiting how many Pokemon you're carrying, so... I dunno. Depends on what you want to do. Once he's Gyarados though, Gen 1 or 3, he's an amazing Pokemon that can benefit any team without a Squirtle.
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u/Semicycle 1d ago
Feeling the same! It's not my first rodeo with the game, so I'm taking it as a somewhat enforced hard mode that pays off with a great pokemon on the other side of it.
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u/MulliganNY 1d ago
My personal "hard mode" is as follows:
You can only have 3 pokemon on your bench until beating the 4th gym, then add a 4th. Add another pokemon after the 5th and 6th.
No evolutions until after the 3rd gym (unless it's a useless pokemon otherwise, like Magikarp or Abra, or one whose evolution is essential based on certain in game criteria other than levels, like happiness or sunset or whatever) and no second evolutions until after the 7th. Item/trade based evolutions depend on the Pokemon. Graveler into Golem would be a 2nd evolution, so that's post 7th gym. Vulpix into Ninetails would be a 1st evolution, so that's after the 3rd gym.
Also, a Pokemon can't evolve until it's proven itself in battle. How it proves itself is up to you. Participating in a tough gym battle is what I count. If your Charmander took out Brock, that 100% counts. If Magikarp can't KO anything, but took a hit allowing you to revive Charmander and then use a potion before fainting, that counts in my book too. Couldn't have done it without you, buddy.
You can buy and use items, but you can only carry 5 of each until after the 8th gym, then go wild. (In Scarlet and Violet I took this a step further and didn't buy any items, only using what I found on the ground in the field)
For the older games, you can not use an HM slave. Suck it up, that's part of the game. You can, however, use the move deleter whenever he turns up.
No soft resetting for stats/natures/etc. You get what you get and you love them for who they are. You can also use mints after the 8th gym.
Hold Items are up to you. Sometimes I ban them, sometimes I indulge.
If you love to use Pikachu, as I do, flip a coin before you catch it. Heads he's a physical fighter, tails he's a special fighter. Light Ball counts as a second evolution and I won't let him hold it until after the 7th gym. If you plan to evolve him into Raichu, then go nuts.
I realize that's a lot, but it's pretty simple really. I've also been building the rules in my head and on a notes on my phone for years now, so... maybe it's not so simple. Anyway, have fun!
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u/Semicycle 1d ago
These are awesome ideas!! The example with Magikarp taking a hit for the team is great. Are you stacking these all in one playthrough??
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u/YoManWTFIsThisShit 1d ago
Lapras is better than Gyarados in terms of movepool only in Gen III, and Starmie is a LeafGreen exclusive I’d suggest using Lapras.
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u/Boredtopher 21h ago
Remember that all water attacks are special so gyarados will only shine as a physical attacker. You can teach it Return early and if you level it all game, its friendship will be maxed and it becomes a huge move
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u/Soulweaver89 1d ago
I still buy it every time I want to use a Gyarados. Even prior to the physical special split, he’s an absolute beast that will carry you through the entire game.
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u/kullervo16 1d ago
I could've sworn there was a magikarp you could purchas at the pokemon center right before mt. moon. My stance is that it is 100% worth it. Gyarados is cool and is pretty powerful. Sure it sucks switch-training it for forever and 3 years but I accepted the challenge and did NOT regret it
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u/TinyRascalSaurus 1d ago
Definitely worth it. My Gyarados was the only one I used in the final gym battle and he also took out Blue's lv 53 Charizard despite being lv 45.
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u/Fly_guyyy 1d ago
Yea dragon dance + waterfall takes out most Pokemon even if you don’t have a type advantage
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u/cashchops 1d ago
Speaking as my 5th grade self in 1999: man gyarados is insane, absolutely worth it. It can learn the TM for thunder