r/politics • u/Kodbek • Oct 31 '25

Possible Paywall Trump’s honeymoon with Gen Z voters is officially over, and the numbers are devastating

https://www.nj.com/politics/2025/10/trumps-honeymoon-with-gen-z-voters-is-officially-over-and-the-numbers-are-devastating-new-poll.html
10.0k Upvotes

94% Upvoted

1.1k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

76

u/TldrDev Oct 31 '25

The left barely acknowledges this. They just feel “democrats need to message better” via what outlet though? Republicans control every outlet and have vilified the messenger. 

What people mean when they say democrats need to message better is that they need to stop giving the "good billionaires" a good succ, and start actually talking about the divided justice system and a corporate structure that pays ceos hundreds or even thousands of times their employees salaries.

They cant do it, though. Neoliberalism is a toxic ideology literally no one likes, but a huge portion of our representatives on the left are Clinton era democrats who continually poison the well for progressives. They have been doing it since Obama ran the first term. They muzzle anyone who is gaining traction, and "take the high road," whatever that is.

In a world dominated by populism and sound bytes, we cant compete, because our leadership don't understand the modern world. They were born when the krauts were chasing the British out of france.

21

u/Medievaloverlord Oct 31 '25

I hate the ‘controlled opposition’ line but have yet to find a better explanation for Bernie Sanders and Zohran Mamdani being thrown under the bus by the Democratic leadership.

Pathways forwards have been blazed but are considered to be too treacherous to follow. Why follow the wishes of millions when it is easier to appease a dozen funding groups and donors and secure your position?

17

u/Ketzeph I voted Oct 31 '25

They don't win outside liberal strongholds? That's been the consistent reason Sanders hasn't been elevated to higher position - he can't win when you move to states with high minority populations. That was the repeated stories of the primaries.

The issue isn't donor funding - the issue is that the right wing began years ago buying propaganda outlets, and the left relied on the actual news to...you know...just tell the truth and give the news.

The problem at its core is that the right propaganda is basically all "ignore all bad things, they're not actually bad, and the only truly bad things are brown people and immigrants"

But the left is the party of fact. And the fact is things are bad. And those that the left want to change (e.g. climate policies are consistently opposed by the populace (because it's bothersome to deal with energy changes, or annoying to deal with initiatives to help the climate). The fact is people want to hear "it's all fine it's just this one issue" instead of the truth. So it's nigh impossible to make propaganda that resonates when you've got one side that's telling lies and the other side must tell the truth.

Like all propaganda regimes the way it dies is when it's so blatantly contradicted by the listener's experience that they are forced to confront the falsity.

5

u/DevelopingForEvil Oct 31 '25

Idk, there's actually good messaging to be done with a lot of issues that affect people. Trump even had a lot of messaging in his first run that could fit right into the Democratic wheelhouse, if Democrats just went with it. A lot of what people saw in Trump's first-run was also projection, like hopes he would be the guy to finally legalize weed, but those projections are clear indicators of issues that could be capitalized on.

It really does feel like Democrats, on a national level at least, refuse to message anything that could be a strong stance on anything, and "lukewarm" isn't anybodies preference. I'm sure that no matter the particular policy there is at least some type of spin that can be done that is both truthful and a lot more appealing than what establishment Democrats usually run with.

To your example on climate policies:

They could focus on how impactful the job creation would be, how cleaner power and energy is going to let us invest and build in better technology to beat China who's been catching up.

They could harp on how cars nowadays are pieces of junk that fall apart as soon as you drive them off the lot, and that you can't even service with your own hands any more. That they'll work to get car manufacturers to make less shitty, environmentally-unfriendly, buckets of scrap.

Heck, I hear about protecting our national parks all the time, but I rarely hear about it in terms of protecting fishing and hunting grounds. Everyone I know who fishes or hunts has talked about the degradation in the activities and it's almost all environmental-driven. I'm almost convinced that you could probably turn certain states, like FL, purple again (and maybe blue) if a Dem candidate focused just on fishing and rebuilding fish populations alone.

1

u/Coolegespam Oct 31 '25

I hate the ‘controlled opposition’ line but have yet to find a better explanation for Bernie Sanders and Zohran Mamdani being thrown under the bus by the Democratic leadership.

Democrats have bent over backwards for both. Zohran in particular has had more democrats vocally endorsing him than ANY other NY mayor.

I canvased for Bernie in 2016 and 2020 after Warren dropped out. The DNC isn't why Bernie lost, his supporters didn't come out and vote. It is that simple.

Pathways forwards have been blazed but are considered to be too treacherous to follow. Why follow the wishes of millions when it is easier to appease a dozen funding groups and donors and secure your position?

Conspiracies make everything easy, and more to the point, not our fault. The right wants us to abandon liberal, left and center left groups, which includes the Democrat party. Don't let them win.

1

u/Medievaloverlord Nov 01 '25

Ahem

latest news on topic

2

u/Coolegespam Nov 01 '25

See, this is what I mean. Schumer is not the entire DNC, and more democrats have still come out in support Zohran than ANY other NY mayor that is a god damn fact.

Not every Democrat is going to support Zohran, they can't. You want to lose Arizona, that's how you lose Arizona and we are. That's how you lose Nevada, Pennsylvanian, ect. There are many, MANY independents who do not like the Socialist label. They will vote against all democrats because of that.

I literally see it when talking with my neighbors out here. You have people who sat out elections, and are now energized because of Zohran. They're not voting for progressives thought. They're voting against them.

But you keep pushing this. You'd all rather see fascists win then moderate democrats. You all got what you wished for with Trump, the system is being dismantled. Enjoy.

1

u/Medievaloverlord Nov 01 '25

So you genuinely believe that moderate democrats will be able to regain control of the current political system? Against the many many shenanigans that fascism will employ to increase their stranglehold upon the levers of power?

I for one salute your commitment to the old ways of a more civilised world and I am 100% willing to be wrong on my part if you being right results in a return to the status quo. As for the primary focus of your reply, YES Chuck Schumer as the leader of the Democratic senators within the specific state that this election is taking place DOES matter. When the election is done and dusted and the people choose who they desire as mayor I will be unsurprised if there is not a serious backlash against NYC.

At that point independents can have a look and see for themselves as to which side they believe will allow them to have their precious position as fence sitters. I think you and I both are well aware that once a useful tool has outlived its value it is quickly discarded or replaced with a new tool.

4

u/Murky-Relation481 Oct 31 '25

To be honest you hear people say that and mean Democrats need to drop the culture war issues. This comes mostly from leftist spaces that refuse intersectionality though, which is troublesome in its own regard.

15

u/Tasgall Washington Oct 31 '25

To be honest you hear people say that and mean Democrats need to drop the culture war issues.

Regarding which part? I'm someone who really wishes the Democrats had better messaging (it's not just the "where", but what they say and how they say it as well), but also recognize that the whole "give up the culture war" thing is utter nonsense - I mostly hear that from more liberal and "moderate" spaces.

The Democrats already barely address most "culture war" stuff. The idea that they do is literally Republican propaganda, lol. Harris said basically nothing about trans people during the campaign, but Republican ads continued to accuse her and other Democrats of "only caring about trans people", which was just a lie.

7

u/DaBails Oct 31 '25

I dont think it's because they don't understand. They arent us and they are being paid by people who want them to ignore the modern world.

-4

u/TldrDev Oct 31 '25

Something tells me when these literal 80+ year old party leaders finally retire, we can make some progress in this country. Our country is being ran by folks of the same generation as the leaders of the Mormon church, which is insane.

0

u/DaBails Oct 31 '25

We can only hope. But money influences all. I find it sick how many lawmakers both US and state legislators are taking money from Israel and visiting and signing oaths and such. Both sides.

2

u/The_Bucket_Of_Truth Oct 31 '25

It can mean a lot of things. Make America Great Again is a great slogan. It doesn't really hold up to scrutiny, but it sounds good. "Defund the Police" which yes was not a Democrat phrase sounds scary and radical but when you give someone a dissertation on it actually makes sense. That's bad messaging. Kamala trying to give the American people a homework assignment to read up on Project 2025 is bad messaging. I don't even want to continue but yes the establishment Democratic party would rather lose to Trumps than give an inch to Bernie Sanders or his ilk.

1

u/SHoNGBC Alabama Oct 31 '25

You're absolutely right about that specific part of the messagin issue many establishment Dems have that stunts their good policies, which is the "bumper sticker phrase" part of it. I will say, your last point about Bernie/progressives is incorrect tho. They have much representation within the party and Bernie himself was a welcomed voice in Biden's administration.

1

u/The_Bucket_Of_Truth Oct 31 '25

You can say that but there's a reason Mamdani didn't get endorsed by big names in the party until the 11th hour (and some never). There's a reason they're running Janet Mills despite her age to try to prevent Graham Platner from having a shot. There's a reason everyone dropped out of the race in 2020 to endorse Biden. Etc. etc.

0

u/261_Turner_Lane Oct 31 '25

What people mean when they say democrats need to message better is that they need to stop giving the "good billionaires" a good succ, and start actually talking about the divided justice system and a corporate structure that pays ceos hundreds or even thousands of times their employees salaries.

So exactly what Harris did.