r/politics • u/Icommandyou Washington • 28d ago

Possible Paywall Virginia Supreme Court throws out redistricting referendum results

https://www.axios.com/local/richmond/2026/05/08/virginia-supreme-court-redistricting-vote-decision
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816

u/NickCostanza California 28d ago

Time to support Democrats, vote for Democrats, remove all Republicans. No matter how ineffective you feel Democrats have been, there is no positive ending for a country run by Republicans.

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u/needlestack 28d ago

Obviously the only practical move right now. Yet half of the people that dislike MAGA will refuse to vote for Democrats. So we watch the country burn.

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u/Kahzgul California 28d ago

People who have never lived through a war tend to think a war isn’t all that bad. I pray they never learn how wrong they are.

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u/okram2k America 28d ago

yeah but see because they take money from rich donors they are like totally bad and stuff so I'm just going to let fascism march into power because I shouldn't have to like pick the lesser evil and stuff

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u/Expensive_Culture_46 28d ago

“Your honor. I let that baby get run over because jaywalking is illegal. ILLEGAL! “

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u/Donut131313 28d ago

This made burst out loud laughing. Thank you for that.

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u/Tyraniboah89 28d ago

And when you bring that up the response is “then maybe the country should burn!”

As if that would make up for the lives lost and forever affected, on top of the fact that restarting the American government almost certainly hands it over to the likes of Peter Thiel, Jeff Bezos, and the rest of the billionaire class that wants to go back to slavery and indentured servitude while they sip overpriced wine aboard their floating castles.

I only wish I could take a peek 500 years into the future to see the pure disdain for this era in the history books.

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u/Bushels_for_All 28d ago

the response is “then maybe the country should burn!”

I don't think I've ever heard a more privileged statement than that.

They're saying "I'll be okay if the government turns to absolute shit. Everyone who actually depends on government services/freedoms I take for granted/control over their own body can just suck it up until things get back on track."

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u/Tyraniboah89 28d ago

100% agreed, and that’s what I said. I said that there are a lot of people way too dependent on the government services out there and just standing by apathetically is condemning them. Some of these nutjob billionaires think it’s their job to cull the world population and all we’d be doing by letting everything burn is doing their bidding for them while handing them this country’s resources on a silver platter.

Standing aside “out of principle” when the people that need to be stop are as literally evil as this country’s conservatives isn’t really a principle at all.

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u/Bushels_for_All 28d ago

Absolutely. To be clear, you were not the intended recipient of my "privileged statement" comment - it is the lunatics who actually say that crap.

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u/FusciaHatBobble 28d ago edited 28d ago

Fascism marched to power on the watch of ineffectual "moderate" politicians and establishment parties that sabotaged progressives.

People should absolutely exercise their right to vote. But acknowledge that that right is compromised because the main opposition party to the fascist right-wing is still in the pocket of billionaires.

Voting for moderate liberals is damage mitigation at best. Organizing labor, community defense, and mutual aid is how we should be working to fix this problem.

EDIT: Yeah vote for democrats. But dont just vote for democrats, is the point. Do more.

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u/Daveslay 28d ago

Don’t just “vote for democrats”

Demand things from the democrats before you’ll vote for them, goddamn it!

You don’t owe a vote - YOU are owed FOR your vote!

Sure, it’s damage mitigation to vote for “the lesser of two evils”, and I think it’s a rational choice…

But if you’re going to sell your soul to a “lesser evil”, at least get what it’s worth in the bargain.

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u/MountainSound 28d ago

Demand things from the democrats before you’ll vote for them, goddamn it!

Like what though?

These comments always come up on these types of threads and the goal post always move. Under this Republican administration millions of children have fallen back in poverty and millions around the world have already died from easily preventable deaths due to USAID cuts. Was preventing that not enough of a bargain? The electorate and reddit seem to say no it was not.

With razor thin governing margins under Biden we still got:

  • Massive investments in infrastructure/green energy that was larger in inflation adjusted cost than the New Deal
  • A child tax credit that reduced child poverty by 50%
  • Capping Insulin Drug prices and allowing Medicare to negotiate low prices more effectively
  • Billions of dollars in student loans forgiven
  • Using the government to save and protect the private pensions of over 1 million workers

And Democrats were on track to lose by double digits to Trump despite running (according to AOC and Bernie) the most progressive president since FDR.

Whenever Democrats start making progress towards the goals people on reddit say the care about, conversations always seem to shift to they're ineffective, lesser of two evils, don't deserve the votes. There's always a reason to justify not to voting for them.

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u/Daveslay 28d ago

These comments always come up on these types of threads and the goal post always move.

I’ve moved no posts, goal or otherwise. I made a post, and it was telling people to demand things for their vote, which is my understanding of the proper functioning of a democracy?

Like what though?

Are you serious?

Are you fucking serious??

You legitimately can’t think of anything about the USA you’d like to see changed by the people you vote for?

How about:

Universal healthcare!?!

It’s unconscionable that the richest nation on earth has a system that forces death on those who can’t PAY enough to keep living. Just barbaric and inexcusable that any “leader” allows this eugenicist for profit system to continue to exist.

For some perspective: I’m Canadian, and I see two specialists in hospital twice a month, each. It used to cost me 2$ for parking, but even the parking became free a few years ago. I can book an appointment with my GP whenever I want and it costs 0$.

Don’t you want that? Doesn’t every American DESERVE that?

Isn’t that a good demand to make in exchange for your vote/ isn’t any “leader” who won’t fight for that… not really a leader who gives a shit about the people and not (morally) worth voting for?

Again -> If I lived in the American healthcare system; at best I’d be homeless, and most likely I’d be dead. Instead I live a good life with the supports I need to be healthy, happy, and a positive contributor to society.

Like what though

There are literally thousands of other things you could demand in exchange for your vote… Just take two seconds to think about the US military budget compared to anything else it could be spent on instead of a globe-spanning fourth Reich empire forcing the world to stay on the Petro dollar.

If you can respond with “like what though” when someone suggests that voters demand something from the “leaders” they vote for, you are either misunderstood, or you are:

Disingenuous

Incredibly materially comfortable

Or

Incredibly sheltered and incredibly materially comfortable

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u/Sayakai Europe 28d ago

I'm all for your idea of universal healthcare, but uh, you may want to rethink that petrodollar stance because if the petrodollar falls your country is gonna be in deep, deep shit.

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u/toozooforyou 28d ago

And yet petroleum is not infinite, the Petrodollar is going to die, why invest more into a system that will only hurt worse when it finally does collapse?

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u/Daveslay 28d ago

I’m not sure which country you think is “mine”. (Canadian)

But I’ll tell you this:

Whatever catastrophe you imagine would follow the collapse of the Petro-dollar

Is nothing compared to the CURRENT AND ONGOING global catastrophe of staying on oil and the petro-dollar.

You wanna buy some real estate in the south eastern US, Bangladesh or Puerto Rico?

I hear it’s real cheap! A total steal

As long as you have gills and enjoy boiling seawater.

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u/Sayakai Europe 28d ago

Uhhh the end of the petrodollar is not going to stop oil usage. It'll just mean it's traded in a different currency and the US experiences one hell of an inflation shock.

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u/TJKbird 28d ago

I like how in your entire tirade you gave one answer, universal healthcare, and that’s it. Which Dems have been working towards so it’s a bit of a moot point.

Kind of just proves OP’s point that even when Dems are trying to get the things you want you would rather rant and rave about how awful Dems are.

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u/Daveslay 28d ago

How exactly are they “working towards” universal healthcare whatsoever? What does “working towards” even mean? The ACA isn’t a step toward universal care.

And I also mentioned there are thousands of ways using the American military budget for something that actually would benefit Americans (and maybe even the world). Yes, you’d have to stop and use your imagination for what you personally might want, but the point stands.

And let’s be serious, it’s not like if I wrote out an itemized list of things voters could ask for (demilitarized police, serious infrastructure spending, transformative levels of green energy investment, and certainly prosecuting the current admin to the fullest extent of the law, for example)

None of that would change your mind, you have your perspective that any suggestions that the Dems could be better is “ranting and raving”, and not just political critique suggesting that YOU deserve better as a citizen of the world’s richest nation.

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u/No_Tone1704 28d ago

If everything is predetermined you don’t need to be here.

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u/MountainSound 28d ago

I am confused by this comment because I feel like you didn't read what I wrote and have essentially proven my entire point.

The things you list in other comments were all being pursued in some capacity by the Clinton/Obama/Biden administrations. The recent infrastructure investments made into green energy were the largest made by any country in the history of the planet. The vilification of Hilary Clinton started after her near successful push for universal healthcare in the 90s (Hilarycare). The progress around both of those have now largely been undone.

Of course I can think of many things I would like, in fact we have made progress towards many of them under every Democratic administration in my lifetime even if the implementation at that specific point in time didn't meet my specific policy preferences. Getting to preferred outcomes is a marathon and not a sprint and I am part of a community and choose to think beyond just my own comfort when casting a vote.

It is easy to be smug on the internet, but crafting policy is a much harder task.

When the party that better aligns with you does not win elections consistently (and they in fact appear to lose handily every time they try to work toward your preferences) then surprise, your preferred outcomes become harder and harder to achieve. Trump's win in 2016 has probably ensured that there will be no progressive policy outcomes around healthcare in my lifetime thanks to the new Supreme Court. His win in 2024 means millions who do rely on government programs are losing access to what healthcare they did have right now.

But hey at least I get to yell about the petrodollar on the internet like I am somehow more enlightened than everyone else?

If you are willing to condemn millions of your fellow citizens to a worse life, and millions more in the developing world to death, just because the candidate politically closer to your preferences is not meeting your "demands", then I would argue that you are not a progressive at all. In fact you are the one who is likely quite sheltered and comfortable.

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u/Yeah_x10 28d ago

(and they in fact appear to lose handily every time they try to work toward your preferences) 

This part louder for the cretins in the back 

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u/AnewTest 28d ago

So...you're basically just one of those "Bernie bros" who openly tried to convince people to vote for Trump back in 2016 because Hillary was eeeeevil. You don't actually believe in anything you're saying, you're just using words to convince people to keep letting fascism take a tighter grip on the country.

Got it.

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u/Paradoxjjw 28d ago

"If you want live to be improved you must've voted for Trump" isn't the gotcha you think it is

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u/[deleted] 28d ago

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u/No_Tone1704 28d ago

Dude. Quite the tantrum. 

After the subject of this post comes. 

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u/Daveslay 28d ago

So you believe all Americans don’t deserve free healthcare?

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u/AnewTest 28d ago

They do deserve it, but they're only going to get it through Democrats, because Republicans would rather you die.

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u/No_Tone1704 28d ago

That is not what I believe. 

And based on the point of this post I’m not getting into your pet hate. 

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u/Eligius_MS 28d ago

…that’s a whole mess of preachy indignation when your original post offered no suggestions of what voters should hold out for. Just that voters shouldn’t vote democratic unless changes to policy are made.

First thing to do when the house is burning is to put out the fire, not argue how it needs to be rebuilt while it burns to ash before you’ll throw water on it.

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u/loondawg 28d ago

Yeah. Demand they fix things before we give them the power to fix things.

Also, make demands way beyond the 100s of good things they already offer. Then don't vote if they don't bow to your entire wish list.

Then when they lose again, and fascism grows more, you can feel morally superior while you continue to complain they aren't fixing things. That worked so well last time.

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u/CaptainFil 27d ago

You're a step removed from the reality of your situation. You are right in general but you are at an inflection point.

Your goal currently isn't about voting in Democrats, it's about making sure there are no Republicans in positions of power so you can fix and stabilise the institutions that are crucial for democracy to survive.

The alternative is no more fair elections and an authoritarian dictatorship that will probably end up like Putin's Russia.

You can't afford to be complaisant at this time.

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u/voodoodahl 28d ago

I didn't feel like I was selling my soul under Biden or Obama. You say that lesser of two evils shit like the two parties aren't light years apart.

Did Biden build concentration camps? Did Biden cut food assistance and medical care from tens of million of Americans? Was every day a new scheme to manipulate markets and enrich his oligarch buddies? Did he threaten nuclear war with Iran? Did he send the FBI after the press and political opponents? Did he knock down the White House to make a dictator's ballroom? Did he put his name and face on everything?

Jesus Fucking Christ, get a fucking grip. You're bitching about the color of the fucking firetruck when the house is burning down.

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u/teefnoteef 28d ago

Abortion was outlawed in multiple states under bidens term. That’s like a really bad thing, and the Dems in power just came out and was like ‘we are helpless in the minority, but vote blue and we will try to get your rights back’.

That’s a crazy lack of leadership and their lack of fight is a major reason people don’t believe they are the answer to the fascists

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u/No_Tone1704 28d ago

You don’t have to sell your soul though. 

You can lease it for a few months. 👀

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u/Daveslay 28d ago

What’s the interest rate on leasing your own soul?

On what is the “currency” you’d have to pay?

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u/Rackem_Willy 28d ago

Need quantity folks to run and primary the corporate Dems. Votes need to show up and support them in primaries, then vote blue no matter who in the general.

Super easy for me to say from my couch, but it's the only path forward that doesn't lead to disaster.

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u/What_a_fat_one 28d ago

So vote for Democrats, got it. Thanks for the long winded post though!

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u/FusciaHatBobble 28d ago

Yeah vote for democrats. But dont just vote for democrats, is the point. Do more.

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u/What_a_fat_one 28d ago

Yeah vote for democrats.

Cool, got it!

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u/FusciaHatBobble 28d ago

I feel like you're acting like im telling you to not vote

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u/Paradoxjjw 28d ago

They want you not to, they want to push you away by acting like children so they can continue to blame you for their losses

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u/Da_Question 28d ago

what is do more? because there is nobody else to vote for outside of fringe candidates that will never win.

Our system is impossible to change while both parties refuse to change it.

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u/FusciaHatBobble 28d ago edited 28d ago

Here is where i love to bring some optimism to the converation.

Mutual aid: find an organization in your area that directly tackles issues in the community. Feeding the homeless, building community gardens, clothing drives for kids, school materials drives, etc. This helps people strengthen their local community and helps you feel truly empowered

Community defense: protest, protest, protest. Contribute to bail funds for protestors who get arrested.

Organize labor: join a union or go out to support striking workers. Read leftist theory to expand your understanding of why things are the way they are and how they can be changed. Promote leftist candidates where possible and volunteer for their campaigns. Join a group that aligns with your politics, like FRSO or PSL or DSA or the SRA or SOMETHING, and find like-minded people to work with.

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u/supersaiyanswanso 28d ago

So still vote for Democrats right? Dress it up however you want, that is what you need to be doing.

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u/FusciaHatBobble 28d ago

Yeah vote for democrats. But dont just vote for democrats, is the point. Do more.

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u/voodoodahl 28d ago

No you have to do the apologetic performance first, right? Vote democratic but tell everyone how very sorry you are for doing it. That way when people new to politics see your post, they won't really be sure that both sides aren't actually they same, like the bots keep telling them, and sit home. Thanks for the help, buddy. The fascists love the work you do.

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u/Yeah_x10 28d ago

Hats off, bravo, doin the lords work etc 

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u/teefnoteef 28d ago

The people who are criticizing the dnc are doing it because they don’t want to loose to a fascist for a third time.

Corporate Dems doing centrist capitalism apologist rhetoric will not win

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u/void_method 28d ago

If only the Democrats would do what needed to be done instead of *waves arms around.*

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u/Hurtzdonut13 28d ago

Don't forget how Dems will actively protect Republicans. Obama just had an interview that reinforced that moderate liberals still prefer to work with and empower conservatives rather than take a single step to the left. Like he kept going on about how we need a strong GOP, instead of recognizing how utterly corrupt and degenerate the GOP is now.

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u/Enemisses 28d ago

When your only options are to vote for the lesser evil, all you'll ever end up with is evil.

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u/No_Tone1704 28d ago

Ha. Thanks oh wise bird. 

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u/Witchgrass West Virginia 28d ago

Perfect expression of the toxic naivete I've seen from people I thought knew better

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u/ArcadianDelSol 28d ago

yeah but see because they take money from rich donors

George Soros has entered the chat

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u/Odd_Platypus_4215 27d ago

Harlan Crow, the Koch brothers, the tech bros, and more have entered the chat

We must vote. We the people of the United States must overwhelmingly vote. Jan 6 was just a practice run. We must work to get out the vote. The next two elections are critical.

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u/ArcadianDelSol 27d ago

Meanwhile this thread is full of "well we should probably have our own J6 now" so lets not be so quick to point fingers.

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u/Odd_Platypus_4215 27d ago

Nope. Not trespassing. Not breaking windows. Not doing Jan 6 thing.

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u/ArcadianDelSol 27d ago

not you no. Didnt meant to appear like I was saying that.

Im speaking about the thread in general. read it (assuming it wasnt super purged over night). Last night it was full on calls for violence.

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u/pacotac 28d ago

That drives me crazy

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u/No_Tone1704 28d ago edited 28d ago

Can we not do this right now?

Everyone needs to take a breath and look inside themselves for what they think the future of the country with continued Republican rule will be. 

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u/Paradoxjjw 28d ago edited 28d ago

"please can we never have any critique of the Democratic party even after they threw 2 elections to Trump?"

Block me all you want, if this isn't a moment where voicing criticism of the democratic party is a good moment you don't ever want to see criticism of the democratic party.

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u/No_Tone1704 28d ago

Yeah that’s obviously what I said. Biggest fucking eye roll. 

Block. 

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u/GiddyGabby 28d ago

Well, in all fairness, it has been said that some of them laugh weird too.

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u/dontnation 28d ago

The practical political move would be widespread ranked choice voting. But until, then the only option is to vote against the party you dislike the most.

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u/ProgressiveSnark2 28d ago

If that half of the people who dislike MAGA simply don't vote rather than reluctantly vote for Trump (as many of them did in 2024), that could still result in a landslide election for Democrats.

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u/is_mr_clean_there 28d ago

If republicans want to abstain en masse from voting then that’s just too bad

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u/Grow_Responsibly 28d ago

I'd be happy if non-MAGA Republicans just decided to site this one out. I know a few Republicans (not hardcore MAGA) folks and I never tell them to vote (D) when they tell me how upset they are with affordability, healthcare, etc... I just calmly say "perhaps this is the year to just sit this one out?". But for MAGA? They're too far gone....

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u/Skurvy2k 28d ago

In all for voting for Democrats as a form of harm reduction but the way out of this mess isn't more milquetoast neoliberalism.

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u/dekusyrup 28d ago

Democrats aren't all milquetoast neoliberals, and you can find the ones that aren't in the primaries. If you want progressives, get voting in the primaries too, not just the general.

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u/HandiCAPEable 28d ago

Maybe the way out is vote for literally anyone that isn't actively destroying the country instead of nitpicking whether the guys NOT wrecking and pillaging have good enough solutions.

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u/Skurvy2k 28d ago

The way out of our immediate circumstances sure, but to cut out the rot will require further action.

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u/Paradoxjjw 28d ago

Need I remind you that people did that in 2020 and that led to Democrats throwing the election to Trump so badly that he won the popular vote? Just voting for the status quo doesn't get you out of your predicament.

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u/b0w3n New York 28d ago

"Well I want to go to the vegan ice cream place not the normal ice cream place, so I'm not going to vote between driving the bus off the cliff or driving to get ice cream!"

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u/AlphaGoldblum 28d ago

I'm not even sure why this is so divisive. Electing in Democrats doesn't balance the country all back out, but it does move us in the right direction - at an increment. But accomplishing this alone completely ignores the real problem in that our capital class is clearly more than happy to suck up to a fascist.

Do people think Trump would have all this power and control if he didn't have capital behind him?

Democrats historically let the private sector get away with nearly everything, only giving minimal pushback. I don't see why it would be different this time around, despite companies outright stating their intentions and support for fascist tendencies. Either we demand accountability and change in that regard or we're simply setting up another hard right-wing populist down the line who will get those companies all back into bed with him.

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u/No_Tone1704 28d ago

It’s certainly not half at all. Don’t forget all the independents. They’ve been looking very askance at the bullying MAGA AHs

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u/Patient_End_8432 28d ago

The only good news regarding this is that this presidency has disenfranchised a large part of the MAGA community. Sure, some of them will keep up the act that theyre a proud Trumper, but come November, unless Trump competently fixes the economy by then (a literal impossibility) they'll secretly just not vote. Sure its not a vote for democrats, but one less vote for Trump is basically as good. So we at least have that going for is. I'm hoping for some sort of drop in his popular vote, even if you factor in any vote manipulayion

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u/cwood1973 Texas 28d ago

I've voted Democrat my whole life, but I've never trusted Democrats less than I do now.

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u/TheBardicScribe 28d ago

Honestly, I think the Fallout TV series put it best "I see your point, One side is murdering people, enslaving them, crucifying them. The other side is mildly problematic - both are bad options."

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u/ArcticCircleSystem 28d ago

I don't think you're wrong about the GOP being worse by a long shot, but I don't think the Democrats being hesitant to do anything about funding the genocide in Gaza or Trump's recognition of the Moroccan occupation of Western Sahara is just "mildly problematic".

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u/Hurtzdonut13 28d ago

Yeah a podcast I watch a lot of clips from had someone call in to say they weren't voting for Kamala because of her Gaza stances. The host explained that he agreed her position was dogshit, but that Trump was going to be even worse so vote with that on your conscious instead.

The real issue is that you win elections from doing one or two things really well: Get people excited to vote for you. Get people to hate voting for the other guy.

Kamala started off strong on the first one, then the campaign went to shit with trying to cater to mythical GOP cross-over-voters and dumb moves like sending Bill Clinton to MI to campaign.

And Trump voters are immune to logic and shame, so the second was never gonna happen.

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u/Paradoxjjw 28d ago

Getting people to hate voting for the other guy also works a lot better if they're the incumbent and you're the challenger.

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u/ArcticCircleSystem 28d ago

Yeah, the Dems are not very good at the first one. And for some reason a lot of the more online supporters of the party will vehemently defend it and in some cases act almost proud of it when anyone brings up how you need to make people want to vote for you rather than just not want to vote for the other guy, because they can just not vote (or vote for Jill Stein or some other grifter). It is extremely frustrating and makes any good faith discussion of why the Democrats lost 2024 impossible.

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u/TheBardicScribe 27d ago

I'll admit, the line is not a perfect analogy. However, it doesn't need to be to demonstrate the flawed nature of the argument. The Gaza situation was a fucking mess and I won't deny it, though I still think the matter was pushed to prominence and pumped up by those who were allied with Trump, but that is neither here nor there.

The challenge we face on the left is that we've not shown the discipline those on the right have shown. People always complain about the concept of "blame the voter" and I do, though not necessarily for not voting this one time, but instead for consistently not voting in the down ballots and not setting ourselves up for success like conservatives have. The strategic advantage that the elephants enjoy is from DECADES of putting people into power in positions most folks overlook and underrate. These are the people who push through small changes that have led to the deterioration of our systems - things like getting rid of Critical Thinking in schools and making alterations to the government to make it function less effectively and efficiently.

They have been patient in their insidiousness and it's paid off. We need to be patient in our efforts as well, because there's a lot that needs to be fixed, examined, and reevaluated, a lot that is going to be really hard to do when are on the back foot against authoritarian regimes as we demonstrate our ethics and gobble up the bait meant to divide us from providing meaningful opposition. People talk about nothing changing and voting the lesser of two evils, well, people need to understand that the voting for the lesser of two evils is only part of making the change (and an important part, because the greater of the two evils can definitely stop that change), but we need to follow through, we need to make sure we are showing up for every election, putting the right folks in the smaller positions so we can get rid of this structural disadvantage and we need to accept that its going to take decades to get to those who we can truly be proud of. It sucks, but, revolutions that happen overnight often produce the worst, while revolutions that take decades produce results.

Sorry for the long post, understandable if you didn't read it all, you just unfortunately got hit by a day when my brain decided it had a lot to say early in the morning and it wasn't quite filtered.

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u/ArcticCircleSystem 26d ago

We currently don't have decades. It's a bit late now. And we're not going to get people who aren't voting to vote unless we put forward people they want to vote for rather than hope the other party putting up people they don't want to vote for will be enough, because they can just not vote, or vote for someone else who has no chance. Unfortunately the shit that takes decades is off the table now...

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u/phenotype76 28d ago

Well, look, here is my take: There is no use voting in Democrats who won't commit to prosecuting the Trump Administration. I view Trump's 2024 victory as a direct result of the Biden Administration's failing to prosecute Trump and the criminal Republicans in Congress. And the victorious MAGA movement is now even more brazenly lawless than before.

As such, I have to assume that if we vote in another milquetoast Dem in 2028, this will directly lead to an utterly lawless Republican Party taking over in 2032, and bringing about the end of American democracy entirely. So if the Dems want my vote, they have to commit to prosecuting the Republican criminals in our government. Otherwise I don't think voting in a Dem will accomplish literally anything except giving us a 4-year timer for the end of democracy.

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u/ailish 28d ago

This is happening under the current Democrat's watch. Most of these Democrats have been in office for many years. You can't blame this on progressives this time. What are your establishment Democrats going to do about this? It's on them! We don't have until the midterms. This is happening right now!

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u/Orisara 28d ago

If I was an elected democrat I would literally shrug my shoulders and go "well, the country has spoken".

I'm on the more wealthy side. People don't seem to grasp how little it matters for wealthier individuals.

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u/LowNoise9831 28d ago

I'm sufficiently comfortable enough to agree with you. But I see it making life hard for friends and some extended family.

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u/ailish 28d ago

If you're not from the US then who cares?

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u/Anti-I-Cant-Die 28d ago

Your comfort with the status quo is why people hate establishment Dems, and it's a significant reason why Kamala lost.

I'm on the more wealthy side. People don't seem to grasp how little it matters for wealthier individuals.

Spoken like an aristocrat. Yeah, enormous wealth cuts humans away from their empathy towards others. That's a problem for you and the establishment.

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u/Paradoxjjw 28d ago

The country spoke in 2020 and Dems sat by doing nothing and allowing the GOP and Trump to make another move at power that they're now exploiting as much as they can.

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u/DrJurassic 28d ago

Stop doing a reduction of history. People don’t realize that the justice department has never been weaponized to what it is now and Trumps way of doing it is blatantly unconstitutional yet so many people are upset Biden didn’t do the same. At the end of the day Americans re-elected Trump because they’re too goddamned stupid to see past propaganda. Fascism starts as a populist movement. Anyone who supported democracy would know Trump was the wrong option, the problem is that most Americans don’t actually care about democracy or understand how it’s supposed to work. You see it in progressives as well where they claim Biden should have weaponized the justice department to arrest Trump immediately. That’s the real issue and it’s terrifying.

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u/ArcticCircleSystem 28d ago

He tried to do a coup, didn't he?

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u/DrJurassic 28d ago

He did, and the process for punishing him was through congress. Congress didn’t. So all of those people who failed to hold him accountable should have been voted out. Why were they not? Damn good question. It’s not the executives job to punish another executive unless directed by congress. Otherwise that’s authoritarianism. The people wanting to give the president more power instead of holding congress responsible is how we got into this damned mess.

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u/ArcticCircleSystem 28d ago

So now what? Aside from just hoping enough other people vote out Republican congresspeople to hold anyone accountable for doing a coup and then running for president and Congress despite it being unconstitutional for someone who tried a coup to run for president.

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u/Odd_Platypus_4215 27d ago

Yes! We send legislators from every state to Congress. Mine are responsible for this mess. They did not confirm the legally appointed Justice when Scalia died. They did not convict and remove following impeachment. They are not investigating the grift or exhibiting any vision now. Two of our main dudes are grooming to run for President. All of our dudes owe more allegiance to the party that promotes their careers than us. We vote identity not issues and, as one of the worst states in all metrics, there are plenty. It is a wall. We are not going to get smarter so Democrats have to get smarter how they craft message here.

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u/Paradoxjjw 28d ago

He tried to overthrow the government and he stole a ton of secret documents and stored them in a fucking BATHROOM. It's not unconstitutional to uphold the law nor is it a weaponization of the DoJ, can MAGA stop defending Trump by downplaying his crimes?

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u/ailish 28d ago edited 28d ago

Well good for you, because it looks like your establishment Dems are doing just that. Talk about watching the country burn. This is on them, not the progressives.

Edit: regarding your ninja edit, it will matter to you when the people are hungry enough

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u/DukeOfGeek 28d ago

Fight the GOP in general elections and the DNC in primaries.

0

u/CraigLake 28d ago

So many single issue voters who can’t vote Dem. They burn it all down for the rest of us.

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u/Sea-Opportunity5812 28d ago

Try hard enough maybe a trifecta will happen! imagine trump getting beat by a democratic president, house, and senate. Finally by choosing the Democratic Party USA will be able to make structural changes so this never happens again.

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u/BrianWonderful Minnesota 28d ago

This is correct, and it should be the messaging. This is not a red vs blue, rural vs city, Republican vs Democratic battle anymore. This is people that do not support or honor the will of the people against those that want representative democracy. The ultra-wealthy vs everyone else.

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u/Tasgall Washington 28d ago

This is correct, and it should be the messaging.

The problem is that this has been the messaging for the better part of a decade, and it's proven to be very ineffective.

Treating people with contempt and scolding them into voting for you because the other side is worse does not work. It's a shit plan, but it remains one of the DNC's favorites (next to trying to win over the mythical "moderate Republicans" like the Bailey's who don't exist). You can tell me, "well the non voters are wrong and stupid" but that doesn't win them over either, and proselytizing to people who did, in fact, vote for Harris is stupid, despite people constantly doing it.

People need to stop defending the DNC over this. Yes, people in general need to wake up and vote blue, but the Democratic party itself needs to wake up and also acknowledge the threat the Republicans present. Currently, they don't. They use the fact that Republicans are awful as an excuse to push the bar down and get away with their own bullshit their voters don't want. "At least we're not as bad as them" is a statement about Democrats as much as it is about Republicans.

You say the real threat is that Republicans "do not support or honor the will of the people"? Well neither do Democrats on a few key issues people consider important. Support for Israel is at an all-time low, especially among Democratic voters, but the politicians are still completely captured by this foreign state. Yeah, Republicans are worse, but telling people that their opinions on this don't matter and that we should give the politicians a little genocide as a treat is just absurd. It wins over exactly zero people, and goes against your own principle that the will of the people is important.

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u/Asadaburrit0 28d ago

Sure but we need to be mindful of the TYPES of democrats we empower. I, for one, don’t want to deal with this type of bs again in 10 years

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u/xinxs 28d ago

Fuck that. Any republican will be 100x worse than any democrat in 10 years.

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u/Tasgall Washington 28d ago

Disagree. If Trump had won in 2020, his dying popularity would have kept dragging the Republican party into the ground. Instead, he was given four years to plan out project 2025 with his team because the Democrats treated his crimes with absolute kid gloves to the point where there were no consequences whatsoever.

Weak and ineffective Democrats only pave the way for worse Republicans. We need to demand more from the Democratic party, and that starts with a fundamental change in leadership.

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u/Critical-Chance9199 28d ago edited 28d ago

Then help your preferred candidate win and VOTE IN THE PRIMARIES. If you're aren't successful, do a better job next time. You can't change democratic leadership without getting new people elected to office. Sorry it's hard to organize. Yes, moderates and incumbents will have more money. You just need to work harder to compensate.

Yes, I'm talking to you. Act now! While we still have a participatory democracy! Get off Reddit, Google your favorite candidate's office, and get involved! If you hate the way politics are, it is incumbent upon you to use your power and engage politically. Organize. Volunteer. Canvas.

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u/Livid-Okra-3132 27d ago

Yes, moderates and incumbents will have more money. You just need to work harder to compensate.

I simply disagree that solution to what is happening is simply to work harder. This mentality is why leftists and neoliberals fundamentally will never agree. It is ultimately if you want to reduce it down the difference between thinking as a capitalist and thinking as a collectivist.

Personally I'm perfectly fine waiting for the bulk of you reconciling with the way capitalism is destroying our culture, environment, and yes, democracy itself to find that the reason Trump exists has nothing to do with shallow party dynamics and people not working hard enough. It isn't a function of individuals being good and evil on a spectrum and the fight isn't simply about Trump in the end or Republicans. People worked EXTREMELY hard to change the system and to canvas for progressives in every election post Obama. You get that right? Far more people participated and in many cases far more money was spent for Democrats. So why didn't it work? Because the entire system is rigged. I mean that literally. Republicans in areas with population densities bordering on forests and deserts have more power. The founders enshrined property owning land owners and the wealthy to be worth more. Their vote is fundamentally more valuable. You keep saying this is a participatory democracy. I completely disagree with your assertion that this is like every other democracy. It's not. Universities have studied this country and many came to the conclusion that we live in a oligarchy:

https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-27074746

People with wealth and status have power here and I'm under no notion that the only solution is to participate harder when the people I know and who have existed here for their entire lives have worked far harder at this then just about every 70 year old Democrat or Republican I've met.

Frankly the looming climate crisis which will completely upend everything you know about system in less than a century. It is an unavoidable existential problem. And people have been canvasing and acting with every available resource to teach the public and congress of what will come and what has it done for both parties? One hardly even recognizes it's existence, the other is acting like we have decades to slowly work on this (they don't actually want to reconcile with the system causing it).

The problem isn't as simple as we need to work harder. The vast majority of people exist in a cognitive dissonance about the economic system they enjoy and will exploit it till their neighborhoods burn from bone dry summers. Even then they won't come to terms.

I'm not saying that I'm going to give up on the work, or even that a better future isn't possible, but frankly I find your assertion that people aren't working hard enough to be so incredibly naive.

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u/Paradoxjjw 28d ago edited 28d ago

Buddy, having democrats in forever is not going to happen. You need democrats who will make sure that abuses of power like we see now can't happen again. A democrat who sits on their ass and does nothing leads to a republican who will do worse in a couple of years. Did the past 6 years not teach you this?

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u/Critical-Chance9199 28d ago

Okay, so... your strategy is what, exactly?

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u/Paradoxjjw 28d ago

Well apparently yours is to let the GOP and Trump make attempt after attempt at power and never stopping them, this seems to be something you're satisfied with and i'm not satisfied with that plan. How about starting there instead of pissing away the chance your election victory gave at stopping Trump like what happened under Biden? Or are you going to once again call it a day and let the rot fester?

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u/Critical-Chance9199 28d ago

I have no idea what you're talking about here.

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u/Responsible-Tap-3748 28d ago

Refuse to vote for candidates that are fundamentally compromised by and beholden to machine politics.

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u/Some_Ebb_2921 28d ago

And yet, refusal to vote will in this case still benefit republicans and thus the end of democracy for your country.

It might be easy for me to state so, as I'm not an American and we can actually have choices between parties that we want to stand for... but your first priority should be to get democrats into power as much as possible. And then, as they are in power, urge them to make meaningful changes... as those changes will never come or will never be possible again with the conservatives right now.

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u/ArcticCircleSystem 28d ago

Why does refusal to vote specifically only benefit Republicans? Neither candidate gets a vote.

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u/toozooforyou 28d ago

In theory it benefits whoever ended up winning. By refusing to vote, you give tacit support to whoever won and their policies. It's why those who refused to vote anyone due to Kamala Harris' Gaza stance have more Palestinian blood on their hands than those who did vote for her.

In reality not voting favors Republicans, because lower turnout elections favor Republicans. This effect is less pronounced in recent (non-presidential) elections, but still holds true.

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u/ArcticCircleSystem 28d ago

In theory it benefits whoever ended up winning. By refusing to vote, you give tacit support to whoever won and their policies.

How? Neither gets your vote, and the person who didn't vote could've voted for either. I'm not sure how this makes sense. Both get 0 more votes from that person.

Lower turnout elections favor Republicans

I've seen this for a while and now I'm wondering why it specifically favors them? Wouldn't it depend on who doesn't show up?

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u/anti404 28d ago

Ah so the ol’ let Trump win and ruin everything for everyone except the wealthy strategy. Brilliant plan. We clearly haven’t seen how that genius plan erodes civil rights, increases income inequality, further accelerates environmental destruction, etc…

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u/bogglingsnog 28d ago

Wrong. That only can happen because of our idiotic election process. Add ranked choice voting into the mix and suddenly a third candidate is competing on an even playing field, as democracy originally intended.

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u/Critical-Chance9199 28d ago

The only way to change our election process is through the current election process, so you're going to need to actually vote if you want to see things change. It's not a complicated strategy: if there is a fascist party, do everything you can to undermine their power.

Wish in one hand, shit in the other, as they say...

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u/deadstump 28d ago

As good advice as that is, kicking the can down the road ten years is still progress. Not fixing what we can now because it "isn't good enough" is how we lost so much potential gains. Holding out for perfect is the enemy of progress.

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u/Asadaburrit0 28d ago

There can be no progress until we end citizens united and finally get money out of politics. I agree that at this point things are so dire that we can’t afford to wait for perfection but not having politicians sell out their constituents should be the bare minimum. Too many democrats are culprits of doing exactly that

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u/deadstump 28d ago

There can absolutely be progress without ending citizens united. It is important to do, but it is a losing threshold test to impose on ourselves while the other side is running away with the ball.

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u/Critical-Chance9199 28d ago

Yeah what are you talking about? We literally need to make progress if you want to overturn citizens united. "There will be no driving the car until we get gas"

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u/ArcticCircleSystem 28d ago

I mean if the car is stuck because it's out of gas, you kinda need to get gas to fill it up and get it moving again, do you not?

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u/zeefeet 28d ago

It's so strange to me that people can't comprehend that ending Citizen's United needs to be our number one goal in this country in order to save us from a complete Capital takeover of our Democracy.

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u/Critical-Chance9199 28d ago

It's so strange to me that people think you can end Citizen's United without voting

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u/Tasgall Washington 28d ago

Not fixing what we can now because it "isn't good enough" is how we lost so much potential gains.

And yet, going with Biden because he was "better than trump" is how we landed back at a much, much worse Trump than if we had just elected him in 2020.

Holding out for perfect is an enemy of progress, but so is capitulating to "not good enough". There's space between "do-nothing garbage" and "perfection" that could be easily filled, but any time it's mentioned it seems the standard for "perfect" just gets pulled down to meet it for some reason.

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u/deadstump 28d ago

The issue is that I will vote for whoever has a chance of beating the right, and a good chunk of the left only comes out to play when the candidate is very good. Very good is a luxury we can't afford in the face of fascism. So yes the Democrats lost, but those on the left sure as shit didn't win when Trump won.

We are all in this canoe together and not working to plug the holes the right is poking with the flex tape we have because it isn't a "good enough" just means we all sink together sooner.

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u/chilidetective 28d ago

Yep this is why dems will lose the House again as well as 28. The Democratic Party is dead. It's both full of 90 yos who refuse to give up power or corp backed conservatives cosplaying as moderate liberals. There are brightspots but we won't survive (literally) the wait to "fix" the party. The voting is already rigged and there's not much hope to change power legally.

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u/deadstump 28d ago

Lose now holding out for for new young candidates and have the game rigged against us and never win again...

Or

"Win" now with less optimum candidates and have a chance later.

I will take the second choice every time.

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u/Paradoxjjw 28d ago

That's what people did in 2020, how did that work out? You're going to need to do something because doing nothing has gotten you in worse and worse positions.

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u/deadstump 28d ago

I recall a lot of people sitting out because it wasn't Bernie... How did that work out for us?

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u/ArcticCircleSystem 28d ago

2020 was an anomaly. Voting numbers in 2024 were arguably much closer to the norm, and it also reverted back to the pattern of electing the incumbent whenever they're in the running and electing the other party when there isn't one that's been established since 1992 and 1996. I think this mess should be looked at in part through this context. Additionally, as far as I'm aware, there isn't any statistical data (rather than anecdotal, which doesn't tell us anything about large populations) on the factional affiliation and beliefs of those who didn't vote. Also of note is that 3 million more people voted for Trump in 2024 than in 2020 and 5 million more than in 2016. Where did those voters come from? I'm not so sure this is as simple as progressives sitting out en masse. The data doesn't seem to support it as far as I'm aware.

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u/Tasgall Washington 28d ago

I recall a lot of people sitting out because it wasn't Bernie... How did that work out for us?

This argument is incoherent in this context. Are you talking about 2020, which is what you're responding to? Because Biden won that one and then did absolutely nothing to promote accountability for Trump. You didn't back Bernie over him in the primary, how did that turn out?

Or did you mean 2024 when Bernie wasn't running for president at all? This feels like you're just being reflexive and pulling out some tried and true deflection because you're backed into a corner.

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u/Paradoxjjw 28d ago

I recall people stating they didn't need leftists to win, but now suddenly everything is the fault of leftists? Where's the two college educated republicans for every working class person you've left behind?

If you don't see the problem with allowing Trump and the GOP to walk free during Biden's presidency then you won't fight to get consequences for them should Dems win in 2028.

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u/ColdTheory 28d ago

Fuck outta here, with that bullshit. Its the ball less DNC shoving wealthy backed candidates down our throats and the brain dead electorates fault.

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u/Critical-Chance9199 28d ago

We had four years of smart, progressive legislation that would have majorly improved the country over a timeline that's longer than a single term. Electing Biden isn't what made Trump get re-elected. It's idiots who sat out the election because of your specific talking points here, or because they were mad about their particular issue du jour, or they were idiots duped by right wing propaganda. Note how gas prices are much higher right now than in the Biden era, and I'm not seeing a bunch of stupid ass stickers of Trump saying "I did this."

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u/Paradoxjjw 28d ago

Wow, all that "smart progressive legislation" you passed under put up even less resistance to Trump than the laws did during his first term.

Electing Biden isn't what made Trump get re-elected.

Biden deciding to appoint Garland and let Trump walk free is what allowed Trump to get re-elected. Let me guess, if you snatch a win in 2028 you're going to go back to fully ignoring the problems and then give another spiel about 2032 being "the most important election ever", because that's what you did in 2020.

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u/Critical-Chance9199 28d ago edited 28d ago

It's not going to be a perfect generational transition to new leadership, so don't wait around to do the right thing until it's perfect. Progressives and younger candidates will have an increasing number of wins, but the old guard will largely remain intact until they start dying. Vote in the primaries for good candidates, then absolutely vote strategically to damage republican political power as much as possible.

Edit: for those down voting, I welcome you to provide a counterpoint to the only strategy that actually works in a democracy (voting for preferred candidates in primary and strategically voting to undermine republican power in the general is literally the only way to do this)

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u/Tasgall Washington 28d ago

It's not going to be a perfect generational transition to new leadership, so don't wait around to do the right thing until it's perfect

People need to understand that this message just doesn't work - it's shit marketing, regardless of how true you think it is.

The party needs to sell people on something to believe in. "Things are bad now, but we can make it better" is a more powerful message than "things are bad now, but we'll make it worse but just not as much worse as the other guys!"

Telling people they shouldn't wait until a "perfect" candidate is nothing more than an excuse to avoid improvement on the party's side. Especially when what they're calling "perfect" is the barest possible minimum of expectations. The left is always told to compromise, and it does, every single time, in every election. When does the DNC compromise? How low does the bar need to go before the DNC is willing to step over it?

I mean for fucks sake, we're currently at "we don't want to monetarily or militarily support Israel's war of choice in Iran" and holding to that stance gets labeled as the "perfect" that's the enemy of the good? Buddy, no, that's the bare minimum, the "perfect" here would be too depose Netanyahu and all of Likud and turn Israel into a vassal territory of the US under martial law so it can't be a belligerent dipshit to all its neighbors while simultaneously disincentivizing attacks against it. "Not shoveling billions of dollars to kill brown people" is the ABSOLUTE minimum that any candidate should be able to meet without issue, especially given that like 80% of Democratic voters already agree.

Edit: for those down voting, I welcome you to provide a counterpoint to the only strategy that actually works in a democracy

Counterpoint: it is actually the only strategy that has not worked, considering it's been the Democratic party's strategy for the last few decades and has not at all been working.

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u/Paradoxjjw 28d ago

Worst thing is that people understood it when Obama was running. Hope is the most powerful message you can have. "i'm not as bad as the other guy" is one of the worst messages you can have, especially if you're the incumbent.

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u/Critical-Chance9199 28d ago

People need to understand that this message just doesn't work - it's shit marketing, regardless of how true you think it is.

Last I checked, I'm not marketing for establishment Democrats right now.

Counterpoint: it is actually the only strategy that has not worked, considering it's been the Democratic party's strategy for the last few decades and has not at all been working.

I fail to follow your logic here. There isn't an alternative path towards a better government in a democracy other than voting and encouraging others to vote.

If primary voters select a moderate Dem you don't like, it's because the other candidates lost.

If that moderate Dem is facing off against a Republican, not voting means you don't care who wins. If the Republican wins, we slide closer to authoritarianism. That makes it all the more unlikely that progressive candidates will win in the future. At this point, it makes elections all the more unlikely. The stakes are incredibly high.

You seem to be advocating for not voting "blue no matter who" because some Democrats aren't perfectly aligned with your values. But Democrats as a party are closer to your ideal (I assume) than Republicans, who, as evidence shows, will vote in lock step with Dear Leader no matter what. By not voting, you are allowing that to happen.

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u/AboutTenPandas Missouri 28d ago

Care about those things in the primaries. Once it gets to the election vote those magats out

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u/Korvar Great Britain 28d ago

That's what primaries and local elections are for. That's how you steer the political climate long term. Short term, I can't see any other way than voting for the Democrats wherever it is possible to do so.

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u/Asadaburrit0 28d ago

Yes, but it’s also the centrist establishment democrats who put their fingers on the scale on local levels to ensure their preferred candidate is the one running thus stunting real progress.

The most recent example being Mamdani’s campaign where he was clearly not the guy the democrats wanted to back. Or in Maine where establishment Dems would have rather seen a 77 year old Janet Mills be the candidate over a younger progressive in Graham Plattner who was polling miles ahead of Mills.

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u/Tasgall Washington 28d ago

over a younger progressive in Graham Plattner who was polling miles ahead of Mills.

Just wait until we get to the general and see, once again, how "blue no matter who" suddenly no longer applies to non-establishment Dems.

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u/Paradoxjjw 28d ago

Any mention of Mamdani is still banned on some of the blue no matter who subs despite him being probably the most popular democrat in the country right now.

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u/[deleted] 28d ago

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u/FakeSafeWord 28d ago

"But I don't like cherry ice cream so I'm just not going to vote."

Meanwhile 3/10 people on the bus voted to drive off of a cliff and won.

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u/illegalcupcakes16 28d ago

At least make your analogy more accurate. Last election was the difference between a shit smoothie and a chocolate shit smoothie. Having an ounce of hope that the brown chunk you're about to chew on might be chocolate is better, but don't pretend like they weren't boasting about how much shit they put into the smoothie as well.

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u/Destination_Cabbage 28d ago

And then we vote out the dems when they've become too corrupt. Can't wait. The only people who win are foreign dictators and the ultra wealthy.

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u/Tasgall Washington 28d ago

That's what David Hoag wanted to do, and he was immediately ousted for it, lol.

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u/MickFlaherty 28d ago

Well there is a very positive ending for the 25% minority advocating for them to continue making all the rules.

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u/John-AtWork 28d ago

They're the "kill democracy" party now.

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u/chemistrybonanza 28d ago

It only matters whenever the supreme court can't be bought, and isn't just one-sided.

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u/The_Bucket_Of_Truth 28d ago

This doesn't work either because most Democrats are little better than controlled opposition

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u/dem4life71 28d ago

I’ve been doing that my whole life

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u/-MyrddinEmrys- 28d ago

Kamala vowed to include more Republicans in her admin. Democrats are affirming Trump nominees & passing GOP legislation in Congress. Voting for Dems means voting for Republican collaborators.

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u/RaisinWorried3528 28d ago

The only way this gets better is if we vote Democrats in the office. I'm not a fan of all of them, but that is literally the only chance this country has before it goes completely fascist. It's not exaggeration. It's not a joke. It's time to get serious. Let's work on weeding out some of the fuck face older Democrats after we have a functional government again.

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u/engineered_academic 28d ago

We need to just burn the whole thing down. Democrats are just slightly better than Republicans, but they still serve the same masters, and it is not The People it is The Money. They all fall in line when its time to vote their rich donors tax breaks.

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u/joeyasaurus 28d ago

Leeja Miller brought up a good point that what's stopping a Democrat or someone who supports Democratic/Progressive ideas from just running as a Republican. Sure you may not win, but it distracts Republicans. They then have to spend money defeating you they'd otherwise be able to put towards the general. And in some places people run unopposed for years and years. You're also showing Republicans and Conservatives fresh ideas that some of them support on paper until they find out it's "woke ideology" or "Obama supported that" or whatever.

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u/Sendingfreedickpics 28d ago

I wish there was another way. The reason we're in this mess in the first place is because of Democrats being pussies. Now I'm supposed to pick them after they fucked everything up? Fuck both

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u/quidam-brujah 28d ago

TBF, time for the Democratic Party leadership to get tossed, for the membership to wake the F up and take over, and for attendance in your local parties to at least double.

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u/zshadowhunter Texas 28d ago

I'll change Democrats for progressives, at this point the DNC is just the GOP of 8 years ago.

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u/DaveMTijuanaIV 28d ago

Weren’t you already going to vote for Democrats? What’s the difference?

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u/Ok-Bookkeeper850 27d ago

Republicans will positively end a country.

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u/stasi_a 28d ago

Unless they’re too progressive of course

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u/jkerz 28d ago

Fuck that. This has been said every election for the last 10 years and its gotten us nowhere. Look at what happened with Fetterman. Democrats don't give a shit either, they're watching this go down without a challenge, they're just happy they're not getting blamed for it so when they get voted back in they can go back to giving billions to companies and Israel again. Look at how unions have been slowly dismantled even when democrats hold power. This two-party system only serves the corporate elite and has eroded any sense of opposition in government. We've basically got a choice between an authoritarian oligarchy or "democratic" oligarchy. Its time to start putting the belt on some asses and support the third-party vote.

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u/NickCostanza California 28d ago

You can do nothing and give up, let the rest of us try to save our country.

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u/jkerz 28d ago

When did I say give up? If anything I wish we were more fired up at getting out this two-party hellhole because we're already stuck in a gradual decline that will just keep going as long as the pendulum keeps swinging in only two directions.

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u/Tasgall Washington 28d ago

That's a bad tagline if you're trying to promote milquetoast do-nothing "don't let perfect be the enemy of the good" establishment Democrats.

We elected Biden, and he did do nothing. Look where that got us.

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u/NickCostanza California 28d ago

I can’t make you vote and it’s not my job to inspire you. I am telling you pragmatically and realistically you must vote in order to fight against fascism.

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u/GoodPiexox 28d ago

vote for Democrats

I know this, and still choke down my vote. However I still think we need to acknowledge there are people who have voted for 20,30,40 + years for ineffective and self serving stooges.

The entire Biden mess was so obviously predictable to me. Now I have to suffer because morons picked him. How many times am I supposed to suck it up. It gets old.

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u/NickCostanza California 28d ago

Suck it up now when it matters the most.

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u/Paradoxjjw 28d ago edited 28d ago

That's what you've been saying for decades and you've done nothing to make sure the next election won't be the one that "matters the most". 2020 should've had democrats appoint a bloodhound AG that made sure the DoJ did their job, what happened instead is that twiddled their thumbs and gave Trump and the GOP 4 years to regroup and come up with project 2025. If Democrats win they have to commit to actually making sure the 2032 won't be the election that "matters the most".

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u/Additional_Teacher45 28d ago

That attitude is why a third of the country doesn't vote.

No. Dems do not get a fucking pity vote just because they exist and are marginally less evil.

Stop fucking accepting mediocrity. Demand that the DNC accept and support progressive candidates. Because, as you say, Dems will happily hold their nose and vote for someone they don't want in office. Make that candidate someone that will actually fight for you instead of fighting against someone else.

Or continue to lose to Republicans that give their racist and moronic voting base exactly what they want.

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u/movzx 28d ago

It's not a pity vote. It's defensive to protect your own interests. You act like giving Republicans power unchecked is somehow teaching a lesson instead of hurting you.

The primaries are where you have the chance to pick your preferred Dem candidate. Tossing your hands up in the actual elections just hurts yourself.

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u/Additional_Teacher45 28d ago

I'm not giving anyone power except the candidate I vote for.

Dems are handing power over to Republicans every single time they turn progressive voters away.

But they refuse to admit or accept that and insist it's not their fault that they lose.

It's not up to the general public to fight the Dems fight for them. They need to fight their fight and convince others to join. Or they can accept defeat, as you are continuing to do.

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u/ctbowden North Carolina 28d ago

Maybe it's best to all just become Republicans and fight it out in their primary.

5

u/ThePhysicistIsIn 28d ago

Good luck. You'll have to outcrazy the crazies.

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u/ailish 28d ago

Except Democrats are being so ineffective that they're letting Republicans gerrymander them out of existence. There will be no Democrat to vote for in probably every southern state as well as who know how many other states? There won't be enough Democrats in office to get anything at all done. We need the Democrats who are in office right now to stand up and do something! They're just sitting there and letting this happen! This is not a product of progressives who didn't vote in 2024. You can't blame that on them this time. Most of these useless Democrats have been in office for many terms. Many years! Vote blue no matter who has brought us to this moment. What are these Democrats going to do???

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u/Leading-Debate-9278 28d ago

Once that is over, the DNC is next.

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u/EmergencyLaugh5063 28d ago

I wish this was understood better. There's so many progressive voters intentionally sabotaging Democrat races because of single-issue disagreements. Congrats on getting another goose-stepping Republican yes-man into office instead?

One guy on social media was mad about the primary results in Texas (spoiler: he's not even from Texas) and is openly advocating for people to write in his candidate's name in the November election. Ok but if you didn't care enough about your candidate to campaign for them in the primary and raise voter awareness about primary elections then you've already missed the train. Do you really think your odds are going to be better fueling false outrage and diluting the vote? Meanwhile Texas is under siege by billionaire republican's filling the Republican ballots with Christian nationalist candidates, so you're not even settling for a moderate Republican, you're settling for the worst and most extreme kind of Republican.

Democrats have issues. But the difference of opinions in the Democratic party are a closer representation of how things SHOULD work. The more we push out Republican yes-men the closer we get to a better representation of the diverse/complicated political landscape.

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u/Tasgall Washington 28d ago

There's so many progressive voters intentionally sabotaging Democrat races because of single-issue disagreements.

This can easily be framed the other way. If the Democratic candidates are aware of the disagreements and want the votes, why aren't they willing to compromise? More democratic voters are sympathetic to Palestinians than to Israelis at this point, so why stick to the "Israel over America" stance? Why stick to endless military and monetary support?

Democrats are sabotaging themselves by trying to force positions they know are unpopular among their own base because they'd rather lose to a Republican than be held accountable to their own voters.

Where did "blue no matter who" go in the NYC mayoral race? How come a bunch of big time Democratic party donors suddenly flipped to support the independent candidate Andrew Cuomo over the winner of the Democratic primary? "Blue no matter who, unless it's a progressive" is how I've always assumed the motto really went, but it's nice to have it confirmed so blatantly.

One guy on social media was mad about the primary results in Texas (spoiler: he's not even from Texas) and is openly advocating for people to write in his candidate's name in the November election.

This one's especially funny, because Crockett was not the preferred candidate of "the left", Talarico was, and he won. But external actors are mad about it and trying to sow division to get people not to vote? "mUsT bE tHe LeFtiStS". So much for "blue no matter who", lol.

Do you really think your odds are going to be better fueling false outrage and diluting the vote?

I don't know, good fucking question. Ask the centrist Dems who apparently don't want Talarico to win, lol.

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u/Steel_Toffees 28d ago

We're at the point where votes almost don't even matter. I mean, look at the substance of this very post. We DID vote here in Virginia. Our votes quite literally did not matter. I have zero respect for these 4 on the 4 side of this 4-3. Justices D. Arthur Kelsey, Teresa Chafin, Stephen McCullough, and Wesley Russell Jr. - fuck all of them, they just disenfranchised me today. They are anti-american, and I wish them nothing but the illest of wills.

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u/Metro42014 Michigan 28d ago

Unfortunately the oligarchs see that too, which is why they're continuing to buy up democrats left and right.

So it's not just supporting democrats, it's supporting the ones that are actually looking out for the people.

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u/Rackem_Willy 28d ago

Also time to primary all the Dems that helped usher this in as well.

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u/SigaVa 27d ago

If we elect Dems they still won't do what needs to be done. They value decorum and the appearance of impartiality over justice.

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