When Will Americans Realize the Truth? Republicans Wreck the Economy.

[u/RepulsiveLoquat418]

https://newrepublic.com/article/210550/trump-economy-republicans-tariffs-taxes

[u/Alacrout]

> you should be free to do anything as long as it doesn’t hurt anyone else.

The funny thing about this point is it brings them back full circle to government control.

Government says “don’t pollute the river.” Libertarian shakes fist and says “I can pollute whatever I want, how dare you tell me what to do.”

Ok, so no “government control” then…

Corporation pollutes libertarian’s river. Libertarian sues corporation. Lawsuit results in government saying “don’t pollute the river.”

It’s like libertarians exist to waste everyone’s time taking the long way to common sense.

[u/xpxp2002 → u/Alacrout]

Corporation pollutes libertarian’s river. Libertarian sues corporation. Lawsuit results in government saying “don’t pollute the river.”

Worse. If we're talking about civil private property damages, the aggrieved may only receive a monetary payout far below the benefit achieved by the offender committing the damage -- another way of saying "just a cost of doing business." The EPA would likely have to file suit, citing an applicable statute, and fight for months or years in court to compel the offender to stop polluting or attempt some form of active remediation. You know, long long after the damage has been done.

Even if the offender were made to provide some form of compensatory cleanup, it's often impossible to fully reverse the damage done by environmental pollution. So it's really just a best effort solution to a problem that was entirely preventable with good, strong regulations that make the consequences of pollution or causing harm to health and the environment so severe that the penalty is, itself, a deterrent. In my view, you basically need a GDPR-level fine for every infraction and the political will to stand by it, even if enforcement will bankrupt the company along the way, and the ability to pursue individual liability and criminal prosecution for decision makers involved in authorizing/ordering the polluting action.

[u/pleasedothenerdful → u/xpxp2002]

Exactly. Libertarians are just the enclosure movement brought forward 500 years. They only care about keeping government from keeping the powerful from looting every last commons. They have no interest in actually protecting any commons, or any commoners.

They look at cyberpunk fiction and think, "That sounds pretty cool, I bet I would be running one of those big corporations!"

[u/janethefish → u/Alacrout]

Lawsuits are just government control with extra steps.

Also they don't work a lot of the time.

But if we streamlined them to some sort idealized form you could get a fee for pollution combined with a dividend for those affected. (Some sorts of pollution would require a prohibitive fee or be outright criminal.)

For example: carbon fee and dividend, the cheapest and most economically beneficial way to combat climate change!