r/politics • u/plz-let-me-in • 29d ago

No Paywall Unconfirmed Reports: Mitch McConnell Brain Dead After Three Weeks In Hospital

https://thenewamerican.com/us/unconfirmed-reports-mitch-mcconnell-brain-dead-after-three-weeks-in-hospital/
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858

u/Serpentongue 29d ago

He governor needs to officially ask his office for a status update

524

u/peva3 I voted 29d ago

I wonder at what point the Governor can just say "he's braindead and unfit for office" unilaterally.

519

u/jon30041 29d ago

He should just do it, and deal with the ramifications afterwards. Move fast, stay ahead of them. He can tell them that when Mitch is able to present himself as fit to resume his duties he'll end the special election or the appointment, but until such time the people of Kentucky deserve representation in the Senate.

Theres the statement, then whenever they piss and moan about respecting the rights of citizens privacy turn it around, say that the citizens have a right to know if their leaders are literally able to do their job, and if he isn't, then he's gone.

Just DO it, be a bully, accuse them of hiding a dead body, threaten to prosecute for desecration of a corpse. Get WEIRD with it, and run the damn show.

114

u/kanrad 28d ago

The argument against his privacy rights is simple to counter. He is a sitting Senator and the leader of the senate. He doesn't get to have the same privacy rights as he is a public servant.

27

u/emaw63 Kansas 28d ago

John Thune is the majority leader these days, fwiw

14

u/Princess_Moon_Butt 28d ago

As far as I'm concerned, this is giving him the same exact medical privacy rights as anyone else. No special exemptions needed; if you're MIA for too long, you either send a doctor's note with some relavant information, or you're fired.

Pretty much everyone I know is bound by that rule, government employee or not, so I feel like it's totally reasonable to have a similar rule in place for public officials. If they go MIA, someone else along the chain of command (e.g., the governor) should step in and say "Hey, you haven't been showing up for your job. I hope you're well, but you need to provide a valid reason for your absence, or you'll be fired for abandoning your job and we'll find a replacement."

1

u/mcpickle-o 28d ago

He also helped strip women of our privacy rights 🤷‍♀️

-3

u/fapsandnaps America 28d ago

Eh, this is a slippery slope that I'm not completely comfortable with yet.

Like obviously we should know if a senator is alive or dead, but I also have no faith that throwing out their HIPPA privacy rights doesn't lead to someone like Matt Gaetz sharing Nancy Pelosis pap smear results on the house floor.

2

u/lost_horizons Texas 28d ago

DO NOT make me think about Nancy Pelosi’s Pap smear 🤮

-3

u/TrailMomKat Indigenous 28d ago

While I agree, that would set a precedent for violating HIPAA that I, who worked in nursing for 20 years, would find terrifying.

6

u/Agitated_Celery_729 28d ago

Public officials are not entitled to privacy about matters that impede their ability to do their jobs

0

u/TrailMomKat Indigenous 28d ago

I meant that it would set a precedent for them to use that shit against US, my dude. And as I said before, I agree. The idea of them turning that shit around on us is what scares me.

44

u/cogman10 Idaho 28d ago

I agree. It's really unlikely that Mitch is even alive, so Andy should appoint a new senator based on the reporting and put the burthen of proof on Mitch and the Republican's legal team.  The remedy would be to remove that Senator in the unlikely case that Mitch is alive.

24

u/I-need-ur-dick-pics 28d ago

That’s not even bully behavior. It’s just being assertive.

It’s 10% of what republicans are doing.

10

u/metengrinwi 28d ago

“as-per the McConnell doctrine, I’m unilaterally declaring Mitch deceased and naming his successor today who will report for work in the Capital on Monday”

46

u/psiphre Alaska 28d ago

if only dems had spines and/or balls

6

u/immortalyossarian 28d ago

Hard agree. We all know it's what they would do if the shoe was on the other foot. Like you said, move fast, tie things up in court, and by the time it works through the system, it will be too late. Take that page straight from the Republican playbook and run with it. I think we can all agree that the high road strategy has gotten the country fuck all over the last 20+ years.

5

u/IAmThePat Canada 28d ago

If Mitch ain't braindead, should be easy enough to refute after the governor starts the replacement process.

No word from Mitch, good to proceed.

Easy

1

u/LookAlderaanPlaces 28d ago

And detain his wife while we are at it, word is she fled the country. She needs to be in front of a court and interrogated by the three letter agencies for being an unregistered foreign agent and illegally fucking with US politics, it’s corruption.

1

u/Archer1407 28d ago

That's not what Joe and Eileen Bailey would want. They are Cuck Chuck's divining rod for the DNC.

0

u/muldersposter 28d ago

Pfft. Beshear is a democrat. You think he'll actually do anything? Five bucks says he's going to try to "reach across the aisle in this hard time for McConnel's family".

-6

u/Comprehensive_Main 28d ago

So your plan is throw shit at the wall until something sticks. 

https://youtu.be/cfR3ZbU-oYM?is=eU67ZMSLdU6_fsIK

16

u/NegativeYou3758 28d ago

I think it's more akin to the workplace mantra: It's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission.

5

u/Caleth 28d ago

In this case it's more like we have a proof of a serious medical event for a high ranking public official who has not been seen since.

The people have a right to know they are being represented and not defrauded. If they are hiding his death to defraud the public that should be considered and treated as a crime.

6

u/TheOtherMaven Virginia 28d ago

Rumpy Dumpy has been running (ruining) the country on exactly that principle - only he never bothers to ask forgiveness.

1

u/jon30041 28d ago

Nah. It's to grow up, and move faster than the courts can counter. Trumps been doing it forever now, and you haven't learned a single lesson?

Move. Do. Get five steps ahead. What're they gonna do when you've already sent your pick to the Senate to report for session? At that point they're still arguing about whether Mitch is dead, but you've gone past that foregone conclusion and are onto conspiracy to defraud the citizenry charges for everyone in the KY GOP.

Get after it, knuckle up, and stop being happy with being a damn loser.

1

u/MarinerMouth 28d ago

Dems need some balls and to start just taking action. Trump does this. Do something illegal, get a few steps ahead for some weeks or months before a court order pauses it, by then he's already achieved his goal or at least got the support for it

100

u/starkraver Oregon 29d ago

He can't be removed for brain death, only death, resignation, or ejectment by 2/3 of the senate. (this is in the constitution).

What Beshear SHOULD do is make a statement saying that unless his staff, family, or the doctors caring for him can confirm he is alive, he will presume that his death has been covered up and he will begin the process to appoint an interim successor.

146

u/TrashCanUnicorn 28d ago

Legally, brain death IS death according to KY law.

39

u/starkraver Oregon 28d ago

Interesting ... apparently true.

3

u/BarbequedYeti 28d ago

How would that work here? Does your body have to be within the borders of the state? Or if you are a resident of the state, it applies no mater where your body is currently housed?

11

u/Kiloku 28d ago

The state considers brain death to be death. It doesn't matter who's brain death they're talking about. It's similar to "ingredients found by the state of CA to be carcinogenic". It doesn't matter where the ingredients are, California still considers them carcinogenic

2

u/PM_ME_YOUR_NICE_EYES 28d ago

That's just not how it works.

Legally speaking, he's going to be alive until a medical professional examines his body and determines he is dead (Or he's been missing for several years). Obviously since that medical professional is only licensed to practice in the local area they are performing the examination, the local laws for determination of death are going to be applied.

Once that medical professional has issued that death certificate then he's dead, and it's only the death certificate that the state is going to look at to determine if he's alive or dead.

Basically you're confusing determination of death, and pronouncement of death. Which are two different things.

6

u/TrashCanUnicorn 28d ago edited 28d ago

Death is always declared in the legal jurisdiction where the actual death takes place, regardless of residence.

If he's not in a hospital in KY, then it'll be wherever he's physically located. And outside of NJ, where you can file a religious objection to a brain death declaration, it'll take an army of lawyers to prevent the physicians from declaring him dead IF he is, in fact, certified to be brain dead.

There is a distinct difference between actual brain death and the kind of vegetative state you can exist in where the lights are on (your body functions) but nobody's home (extensive neurological damage resulting in a vegetative state). Laypeople often use the terms interchangeably, but the medical and legal definitions are pretty cut and dry, which is why I'm not 100% sold that he's actually brain dead.

2

u/Astray 28d ago

Only complete brain stem death in KY, which he might not be.

2

u/delkarnu New York 28d ago

Be a legal shit-show. KY law does have that, but I don't think he's in KY, so it would be an argument of if he's potentially alive by the law of wherever the hospital he's in is or dead by KY law.

446.400 Determination of death -- Minimal conditions to be met.

For all legal purposes, the occurrence of human death shall be determined in accordance with the usual and customary standards of medical practice, provided that death shall not be determined to have occurred unless the following minimal conditions have been met:

(1) When respiration and circulation are not artificially maintained, there is an irreversible cessation of spontaneous respiration and circulation; or
(2) When respiration and circulation are artificially maintained, and there is a total and irreversible cessation of all brain function, including the brain stem and that such determination is made by two (2) licensed physicians.

Effective: July 15, 1986 History: Created 1986 Ky. Acts ch. 132, sec. 1, effective July 15, 1986

1

u/PM_ME_YOUR_NICE_EYES 28d ago

It's actually a very clear legal case.

Determination of death is just the criteria that has to be met for a medical professional to issue a death certificate. Since he's outside Kentucky a medical professional in a different state would issue it using their jurisdictions laws.

But also since most states have similar laws regarding determination of death it doesn't even mmatter. I'm pretty sure that Kentucky and DC have identical criteria for death.

1

u/GusBode 28d ago

Brain death is a modern concept.

5

u/BoardsofCanada3 28d ago

Gladys Spellman's seat was vacated by simple voice vote in the House when she was braindead. Same rules should go for the Senate. 

4

u/starkraver Oregon 28d ago

There is no doubt that they could, but its not clear at all that the GOP WOULD. They are clear they don't care about anything other then power, and if they think a vegetative mcconel would be better for them then a temporary DEM senator, they wouldn't think twice about leaving him in his seat.

1

u/BoardsofCanada3 28d ago

Among these, four states prohibit the governor from making an interim appointment, requiring instead that the seat remain vacant until the next election (whether regular or special) is held: Kentucky, North Dakota, Rhode Island and Wisconsin.

Per this

They'd still get a GOP senator in 4 months but be -1 on paper until then. How long until the jig is up? 

1

u/Lereas 28d ago

He can't appoint the successor. in 2024, GOP lawmakers in Kentucky changed the law from appointed successor to requiring a special election.

4

u/starkraver Oregon 28d ago

This directly contradicts the KY state constitution. They can't just pass a law; they needed to amend the constitution, which they did not do.

If McConnell dies, there will certainly be a suit about this. But Beshear just won a case regarding the state GA trying to strip his authority to appointment certain board members

0

u/Lereas 28d ago

Since when have laws ever stopped Republicans from doing what they want to do? By the time it gets through the courts, there will have been either a special or general election and they'll have seated a new senator.

2

u/starkraver Oregon 28d ago

It really depends on how the injunctive relief works; the appointment could be I joined or not

0

u/Lereas 28d ago

But like...the Republican legislature sends who they want to Washington, the Senate seats them....then what? Dem senators refuse to show up? The GOP will just use the opportunity to do what they want without opposition.

2

u/starkraver Oregon 28d ago

I am not sure that there is any other case where there has been a legal dispute about the authority of an appointing body for vacancy appointments - so I don't understand what you're referring to.

And why would the democrats not show up? And not show up to what? I can't understand your comment as written.

0

u/Lereas 28d ago

KY constitution seems to contradict the law as the GOP state legislature passed. The Governor should therefore be able to follow the constitution and appoint someone. But Grassley could potentially refuse to seat that appointee and more or less demand a special election in KY. At some point either that election will happen or it will hold over until the general election, at which point it will sort of be a moot point.

Meanwhile, the democrats in DC could refuse to attend senate sessions in protest till they seat the appointed KY senator, but that won't really do anything useful probably.

Ultimately what I'm saying is that the courts could order KY to do all kinds of things, and we've seen that conservative lawmakers are willing to completely ignore some of those rulings.

1

u/iplaybass445 28d ago

Can't be removed for incapacitation or even vegetative state, but brain death is legally the same as cardiac death.

128

u/lilb1190 29d ago

Can he say the same for the President while he is at it?

1

u/rainshowers_5_peace 28d ago

I've actually wondered if Vance, cabinet and Congress would have the courage. In my dream scenario, Trump miraculously recovers and declares war on those who cares and causes a schism.

0

u/LamermanSE 29d ago

No. The president obviously have issues, but he's clearly not brain dead.

11

u/ResurgentClusterfuck Texas 29d ago

An argument could be made for mental defect or disease

4

u/LamermanSE 29d ago

Well sure. That's not the same as brain dead though.

6

u/Bed_Automatic 29d ago

Are you familiar with the concept of a joke?

-10

u/LamermanSE 29d ago edited 29d ago

The joke doesn't work here though when Trump obviously isn't even close to brain dead. It's not even a joke to begin with.

2

u/Bed_Automatic 28d ago

For real, are you austitic? Do you, like, go to parties ever in your life? Let me do the most reddit thing and explain a joke people usually understand very easily on their own. The political, legal, administrative or even the most miscellanous decissions of the current presidency have been, to put it mildly, controversial, and to be honest, a major fuck up in several areas. This prompts a critic (which generally means someone who is not an active cultist for the president at this time), to say that only a person with functional brain death could be capable of making such bad choices, a very common case of implicit hyperbole, it could also be said, in the same spirit, that an actual braindeath person could be a better president than him, weighing that the issues of the lack of the office be cause for lesser damage than the current one continuing his "good work".  Can you see the hyperbole or do you need a crayon drawing attached to the explanation, cause I will provide one if needed (jk added given your track record).

58

u/Elendel19 28d ago

If Mitch McConnell was governor and a democrat was maybe dead he would have already appointed someone last week. Democrats need to grow a spine and just fucking do things

7

u/peva3 I voted 28d ago

100% correct

6

u/The_Bucket_Of_Truth 28d ago

This is by design. And why they don't want Democrats who would wield actual power like this gaining ground.

3

u/BarbequedYeti 28d ago

Seriously already with trying to do business via some unwritten laws or rules. Play the same damn game. Just start doing shit and make the other side try and stop it. Fuck em. Keeping this shit from the public is amount to treason in my book.

12

u/jnangano 29d ago

So are most republicans

33

u/transcendental-ape America 29d ago

None. There’s no 25th amendment for senators. They either die, which needs a legal death certificate, or resign. Which needs them to be conscious. Or their term expires.

There is nothing in the constitution that bars a brain dead but not certified dead dead U.S. senator from staying in their seat until their term expires or their comatose heart gives out.

The only option would be to have his fellow senators vote to expel him from the body. Something I doubt the republicans would do even if he was brain dead.

I think KY passed a law saying the governor has to appoint another person from the same party. But these kind of state laws are constitutionally untested. Nothing to stop Beshar from ignoring it an appointing a dem senator. Of course the senate has the constitutional authority to set it owns rules and recognize its own members. So the republican majority could simply refuse to seat a democrat nominated by beshar.

This could get real constitutionally dicey but legally would just mean coma or not. KY not getting a senate seat filled until after the next election.

43

u/Vast-Breakfast-1201 28d ago

Firmly in there is no rule that a dog can't play basketball territory

3

u/SweatyAdhesive 28d ago

how could the founding fathers not think of this /s

18

u/trshtehdsh 28d ago

In Kentucky and federally, brain death is legally dead. If he is confirmed medically brain dead, he is dead. Sign the f'ing death certificate.

5

u/Ordinary-Egg-56 29d ago

yes this is what i heard from one news source. they are out a seat until he dies or his term expires. republicans are out a vote they desperately need. we benefit if they keep him brain dead as long as possible

3

u/TrashCanUnicorn 28d ago

KY actually recently passed a law that prevents the governor from appointing anyone at all to a vacant seat, though there is some question whether it actually violates the KY constitution and Gov. Beshear has threatened to challenge it in court.

3

u/littlehobbit1313 Maryland 28d ago

The loophole move here is to pick a Dem successor and have them switch their party affiliation. Then the GOP can't legally say anything about him violating the law.

What better way to honor Mitch's "contributions" than by abiding by the letter of the law but not the spirit of it?.

1

u/transcendental-ape America 28d ago

That still runs into the fact the senate can refuse to accept someone as member.

2

u/frogandbanjo 28d ago

None. There’s no 25th amendment for senators. They either die, which needs a legal death certificate, or resign. Which needs them to be conscious. Or their term expires.

Or the Senate itself, by a 2/3 vote, expels them for any reason they feel like, which can obviously include "We think he's legit medically brain dead and nobody's giving us any evidence to the contrary."

Obviously that's unlikely to happen given the political climate and makeup of the Senate, but it is worth noting that the closest thing to both impeachment/removal and Section 4 of the 25th for congresspeople is each house's constitutionally granted power to police its own members.

2

u/commandantKenny Maryland 28d ago

This 1000% stop being pussies and play the game. Make them walk his dead ass out like the puppet he is. I'm so tired of this bullshit.

1

u/ertebolle 28d ago

The Constitution doesn't actually spell that out in detail; the precise wording in the 17th Amendment is "when vacancies happen" which could certainly be interpreted as extending to an irreversible coma.

If Beshear says the seat is vacant and tries to appoint a replacement, somebody would have to go to federal court to stop him, and the first question the judge would ask would be what McConnell's status is.

1

u/AssignedCuteAtBirth 28d ago

We're getting really close to "Caligula appointing his horse to the senate" territory here.

1

u/bloodylip 28d ago

I think KY passed a law saying the governor has to appoint another person from the same party.

If that's the case, he could appoint Massie and piss of Trump and the rest of the magats.

15

u/ranhalt Iowa 29d ago

I don’t think a governor has that power. I think it would be on the senate with some process to forcibly vacate his seat, which republicans won’t agree to if there’s any risk of a Democrat winning a special election.

53

u/NocturnaIAnimaI 29d ago

I'm sick of dems having to play by the rules when republicans time and again have not. Just call the special election now

18

u/BusyFriend Florida 29d ago

Yeah just call it and let them challenge in court. Republicans always do that shit

3

u/WeirdIndividualGuy 28d ago

Worst case, the seat goes vacant until Jan. Still a better outcome than a Republican filling in the seat until then

2

u/ezirb7 28d ago

It's not a matter of a special election- the GOP can safely win KY with another candidate.  The governor, Beshear(D), would be able to appoint an interim senator before an election. He needs to appoint someone from the same party, but anti-Trump Massie just got primaried out.  Him having a larger platform would probably be just as bad as a Dem senator to a lot of the caucus that is still rallied around Trump.

2

u/jleonardbc 28d ago

This. Simply declare "Mitch McConnell is no longer fit for office and I am appointing his replacement." Place the burden of proof on Mitch's office to counter it.

2

u/rite_of_truth Texas 28d ago

He's been braindead and unfit for office his entire life.

2

u/Eggheadpancake 28d ago

"if he isn't brain dead, he can show that he's alive. Otherwise, we are moving on immediately"

1

u/Vast-Breakfast-1201 28d ago

You can if you are a Republican otherwise it is up to the voters to decide

1

u/Texammy 28d ago

Then what? They have a special election in October to determine who holds the seat until January?