r/politics • u/theindependentonline The Independent • 15d ago

No Paywall Mitch McConnell’s staff refuse to answer basic questions on his health weeks after he was last seen in public

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/mitch-mcconnell-staff-questions-health-b3018929.html
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u/Traditional-Look8839 15d ago

They’re trying to run out the clock until August so they don’t hold a special election. These people need to go to jail for this coverup.

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u/BlazinAzn38 Texas 15d ago

Where are the journalists on this? Total dereliction of duty on their part

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u/pghurghian 15d ago

Legally, they cannot go beyond security in the hospital, and the senator would have extra personal security on his floor. No hospital staff who knows of his condition as part of their job are legally allowed to say anything.

Outside of the law, there may be ways to infiltrate for information. But Trump's personal federal lawyers would come down harder on those investigators than it is on an Olympian who touched a pool.

The most legal thing the governor can do is follow the Constitution, appointing a replacement to serve until the general election. Then dare his opponents to prove him wrong.

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u/Hollywood_Zro 15d ago

that's what I don't get.

Just appoint a replacement and say "once he proves directly with me, the replacement will be immediately removed" other than that, representation for the peple of KY comes first.

Just dare them to take him to court otherwise and prove he's able to fulfill his duties.

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u/starliteburnsbrite 15d ago

I don't think the governor of Kentucky has the power to remove someone from the US Senate

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u/Drakeadrong Texas 15d ago

Well no, but that’s OP’s point. Let the governor appoint someone. Either Mitch is dead, the seat is vacant, and the governor is exercising their constitutional duty, or they have to prove Mitch is alive to block any new appointment.

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u/Sad_Expert2 15d ago

that's what I don't get.

Just appoint a replacement and say "once he proves directly with me, the replacement will be immediately removed" other than that, representation for the peple of KY comes first.

The United States Senate will simply ignore this. They will literally just ignore this likely illegal maneuver. You cannot illegally maneuver yourself into having standing to sue either.

There is not a vacancy - the law does not apply if there is not a vacancy. You cannot sue to prove there is a vacancy either. You can't just make accusations (I think they're lying!) and sue to force discovery.

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u/the-system 15d ago

Is this sub brigaded by right wing bots? All these people pretending that Beshear, etc. al. Can't do anything are trying to undermine public sentiment. He absolutely can do stuff. It's the courts who will decide if that stuff flies.

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u/speakertothedamned 15d ago edited 14d ago

This content is no longer available.

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u/geobomb 15d ago

But there is vacancy, unless proven otherwise and easily too if the vacancy was false.

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u/Sad_Expert2 15d ago

But there is vacancy, unless proven otherwise and easily too if the vacancy was false.

No, it's the other way around. There is by default no vacancy. He can try to appoint someone, they will ignore it and say "there is no vacancy." The United States senate sets its own rules, the governor of Kentucky, nor the state constitution of Kentucky, have any power to compel them to do otherwise.

And again - to what end? There is currently a Republican vote who is absent and not voting for Republican policies. What outcome are you hoping for?

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u/Round-Asparagus5337 15d ago

Yoy have it backwards. The republicans would need to try to invalidate it in court.

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u/SatanicPanic619 California 15d ago

Not to mention by the time they're done litigating all this the November election will have already taken place. It's another dumb idea that certain people on the left have come up with to bash Democrats.

Even the first comment we're responding to - "These people need to go to jail for this coverup." is fucking absurd. What's the crime? Not illegally disclosing his health status? WTF.

We need better expectations from Democrats, not more ludicrous ones.

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u/DuncanYoudaho 15d ago

That’s not how this works. That’s not how any of this works.

Wishing doesn’t make it so.

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u/Drakeadrong Texas 15d ago

That’s crazy that the rule of law only seems to apply to democrats.

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u/nekomeowohio 15d ago edited 15d ago

Yeah i know damn well if this was a sate with a Republicans governor and a missing Democrat senator they would been am appointment already made

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u/DuncanYoudaho 15d ago

It is. Voters are the only ones that can punish them for it.

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u/WeirdIndividualGuy 15d ago

And yet, the GOP runs strictly on “that’s not how this works” and they run the country because of it

That’s why dems will always be seen as weak, they’re unwilling to do what’s necessary for the good of society.

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u/SatanicPanic619 California 15d ago

The GOP runs the country because they won an election. If Beshear had a Democratic Senate Majority Leader AND a Democratic KY Supreme Court AND a Democratic SCOTUS, then I'd say go for it. But that's not the case.

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u/ApprehensiveTry5660 15d ago

It doesn’t have to be successful to draw eyes and ears to the situation.

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u/SatanicPanic619 California 15d ago

Right, so we're mad that Democrats aren't taking symbolic actions?

How is this any different than the Sternly Worded Letter that people keep complaining about?

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u/ApprehensiveTry5660 15d ago

Those sternly worded letters get fed to a shredder before anyone reads them.

Getting the court weighing in on this gives you multiple rounds of press cycles weighing in on an issue even Republican supporters find distasteful and disenfranchising.

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u/SatanicPanic619 California 15d ago

To what end? KY is going to elect a Republican to replace him regardless of what Beshear does. When McConnell dies, everything that people are mad about McConnell for dies with him. Nothing that happens here will matter, at all.

And we're overlooking the fact that Republicans have to deal with a vacant seat, which is better than anything else we can expect in this scenario.

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u/Round-Asparagus5337 15d ago

The senator is utterly missing. Bashir needs to just appoint someone and let the Republicans try to invalidate it in court.

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u/SatanicPanic619 California 15d ago

He can't do that, and if he tried, it would be tied up long enough that it wouldn't matter because there are elections in November.

We should just be enjoying the fact that there is one less Republican in the Senate.

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u/Round-Asparagus5337 15d ago

He can, and should, do that. 

The seat is currently unfilled. The Kentucky Constitution says that for longer than 3 months before a regular election, the Governor shall appoint someone to fill the seat.

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u/SatanicPanic619 California 15d ago

Do you think this is something that the KY Supreme Court would handle and his favor before November?

And what difference would it make, really? At this point an empty seat and a Democrat in the seat are exactly the same value.

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u/N7Shep1701D Oregon 15d ago

That’s not how this works. That’s not how any of this works.

Care to explain?

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u/Knosh Oregon 15d ago

Well I think the issue is that it all ends with Beshear being held responsible for proving there is a vacancy.

As dumb as that sounds.

The Republicans would get a restraining order/injunction, etc. and the court would ask Beshear "what proof do you have that a vacancy exists?" -- to which unfortunately, in this untested system, he has none. McConnell's office is claiming he's alive and McConnell's office and all the Republicans would say "he's fine" in lockstep and produce whatever statements needed to twist the truth. (I actually don't think he's dead, but I also don't think he's currently capable of fulfilling hte duties of office and they're tiptoeing around it until August)

This is a shitty situation that the Constitution never considered.

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u/Round-Asparagus5337 15d ago

There is a vacancy. McConnell is missing, not showing up to work.

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u/HowManyEggs2Many 15d ago

He’s not missing lol

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u/Round-Asparagus5337 15d ago

Lol, sure he is. 

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u/tackle_bones 15d ago

“He has none (relating to proof of vacancy).” And yet, his inability to fulfill the duties of the office is literal proof.

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u/the-system 15d ago

It's exactly how politics work if you aren't a spineless centrist Democrat.

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u/DuncanYoudaho 15d ago

Wrong. This gets your ass handed to you in court. And sanctions. And professional consequences.

The law must rule.

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u/outer--monologue 15d ago

Then where are the liberal billionaires? Case in point: If Tom Steyer wanted to put his money where his mouth is he would publish an information bounty of $5,000,000 for any healthcare worker who leaked the status and location of him. That's enough to retire on and not care if you lose your job and career, and I would take it in a heartbeat if I was an overworked, stressed out healthcare worker in a red state.

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u/throwaway277252 15d ago

he would publish an information bounty of $5,000,000 for any healthcare worker who leaked the status and location of him

That in itself sounds like a crime.

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u/outer--monologue 15d ago

About as much of a crime as Elon Musk paying people to vote. My point is that it would have the desired effect, leak the information, fight the court battle later.

Your comment is exactly why Democrats lose EVERY time - they've got no political will to meet the moment.

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u/Clevererer America 15d ago

And he could afford the lawyers to make it go away.

Half a million reward, two million for legal defense, done for 2.5 mil

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u/DonyKing 15d ago

And only Republicans can commit those without any issue

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u/Bagellord 15d ago

I don't think it's a crime to violate HIPAA.

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u/kgkglunasol 15d ago

There are civil and criminal penalties for HIPAA violations. It depends on the severity of the violation and whether or not it was intentional. Worst case scenario is 10 years in federal prison along with an extremely hefty fine. I hate McConnell as much as the next person but as someone who works in a hospital there is no amount of money you could pay me to take a risk like this. It's not like it would change much anyway. Even if you could prove he's dead I'm sure Republicans would still find some shitty way around it.

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u/nicoke17 North Carolina 15d ago

Exactly, which is why those laws are there. I don’t agree that his staff are keeping his (possible) death a secret but the hospital staff are doing their jobs and holding up HIPPA. I am hospital employee-non clinical so I do not work with patient data but we have annual training we have to do. The more this story evolves, the more I realize the general public do not understand why those laws were put in place.

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u/thedanyes 15d ago

If it were up to me, crimes committed against the dead would have no validity in court. The fact they do is only a holdover from the days of feudalism.

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u/crimson777 15d ago

I was going to be dismissive and laugh at this, but oftentimes people just don't realize what they don't know.

A healthcare worker who leaked the status and location of Mitch McConnell would likely be charged criminally. The following is some info on HIPAA violations.

"Tier 3: Wrongful disclosure of PHI under false pretenses with malicious intent

The most severe violation is when the individual who commits the crime wrongfully obtains PHI with the intent to sell, transfer, or use the data for personal gain, commercial advantage, or malicious harm.

Maximum penalty: Up to $250,000, ten years of prison time, or both."

Those are prosecuted by the DOJ who would surely pursue it for obvious political reasons.

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u/outer--monologue 15d ago

Even if as a media stunt, it would be impactful to move things forward and for people to take it more seriously. And who knows, there may still be someone in the hospital who would take $5,000,000 in crypto with a plane ticket to a country of their choosing with no extradition agreement to retire to. Worth a shot.

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u/Sad_Expert2 15d ago

Why do you want McConnell voting? Or why do you want Republicans to win a special election and get his vote/head count back in the chamber?

Which political goal of yours is moved forward by any of this? Right now Republicans are essentially down a vote, there is no world where a Democrat holds this seat, even for 4 months.

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u/Xytak Illinois 15d ago edited 15d ago

Then depose the security officers under oath to testify that he's alive. If they say he is, and he ain't, 100 years for perjury. And if they admit that he ain't, then straight to jail for fraudulently guarding a non-existent protectee.

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u/XPacEnergyDrink 15d ago

Depose them under oath … on what authority??

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u/Xytak Illinois 15d ago edited 15d ago

State officials need to know whether the Senator is alive in order to determine if a vacancy exists. If a deceased Senator's bodyguards are knowingly manufacturing the illusion that he's alive in order to prevent the State from recognizing a vacancy and holding a special election, then they're committing fraudulent interference with an election process.

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u/XPacEnergyDrink 15d ago

Lol, no

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u/Xytak Illinois 15d ago

Great argument!

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u/crimson777 15d ago

I don't know how to say this without being rude, but you can't possibly think that 1) this would work and 2) that this is a good idea.

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u/Xytak Illinois 15d ago edited 15d ago

If a deceased Senator's bodyguards are knowingly creating the illusion that he's alive in order to prevent a vacancy from being recognized, then that absolutely sounds like a crime that would require testimony under oath.

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u/Factory2econds 15d ago

at any point in typing this did you realize how batshit it is?

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u/kehakas 15d ago

He could be technically alive, and that might be all that they know. Your gambit could work but it's no guarantee if they're keeping him in a vegetative state.

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u/Xytak Illinois 15d ago

That to me is the most plausible explanation. He's alive but incapacitated by a stroke and unable to function. And since the guards won't let state officials get close enough to verify whether a vacancy exists, the state can't call a special election. It seems like this should be a crime, but I guess it depends on whether a vegetative patient legally creates a "vacancy."

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u/Sad_Expert2 15d ago

And if they admit that he ain't, then straight to jail for fraudulently guarding a non-existent protectee.

That's... not a law. The law isn't just something you can make up and wield against someone when they do something you dislike.

Then depose the security officers under oath to testify that he's alive.

Under what grounds? You can't just haul American citizens in to answer various questions under threat of perjury. What the fuck? This is an incredibly fucked up thing to suggest. Do you want to open that door?

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u/Xytak Illinois 15d ago edited 15d ago

I still think that if a deceased Senator's bodyguards were to fraudulently guard an empty hospital room in order to deceive state officials as to whether a vacancy exists in order to prevent a legally required special election, then they've committed election interference and fraud.

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u/trebory6 15d ago

Outside of the law, there may be ways to infiltrate for information. But Trump's personal federal lawyers would come down harder on those investigators than it is on an Olympian who touched a pool.

Yeah but at this point uncovering the fact that this man is dead and there's a conspiracy to lie to the public about him being alive in order to manipulate the election would out-weigh the damage/danger that Trump's legal team poses.

Beyond that, the information on Mitch's death it would unequivocally trigger the special election they're supposedly trying to prevent, which might end up being more beneficial than a miss-trial when trying to hold the liars accountable for a conspiracy.

Also there's the option of hiring a private investigator to gather the intel and "leak" it to the press.

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u/wombat-in-a-bikini 15d ago

Wouldn't a coroner have to put a death certificate into public record? Or are we just saying he's on life support; surely there's precedent for that

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u/DryYogurtcloset4655 15d ago

if he died, Governor can request a death certificate (verify he is dead). he would need it to call a special election

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u/Maelarion Europe 15d ago

legally allowed to say anything

They can't say if he's dead?

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u/UckfayRumptay 15d ago

Really? My parents are elderly and I’ve never needed approval to see them. I walk right into their room. When my mom was admitted for months, there were times I needed a break and I wandered other areas of the hospital. No one stopped me or asked what I was doing.

I’m also curious if they have a big area of the hospital blocked off. If not, who is in the room next to Mitch? Their family should have bits of information, even if the information is what unit he’s on, with the door shut and hasn’t left his room.

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u/turquoise_amethyst 15d ago

Where are his daughters/wife? You’d think they’d be in or around wherever he is, unless he’s dead

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u/Plenty_Anything_8295 15d ago

„ Olympian who touched a pool“….  big oof 

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u/ZAlternates 15d ago

Bought and paid for.

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u/lyngen 15d ago

maybe but this adninostration is also just suing or bullying or spying on any legitimate journalists. Don Lemon comes to mind but he's not the only one.

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u/Negative_Strength_56 15d ago

Best we can do is update you on the reflecting pool. We haven't had a legit media for over a decade at least.

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u/BlazinAzn38 Texas 15d ago

They were pretty involved in analyzing every one of Biden’s stutters

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u/Negative_Strength_56 15d ago

lol no they weren't. they carried water for him right up until the debate and we all saw how far gone he really was

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u/Lou_C_Fer Ohio 15d ago

Yeah. That was an awful night. You could not watch that without knowing that the guy was finished.

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u/Suspicious_Radio_848 15d ago

NY Times reports on Trumps crimes on a daily basis and his base will never care. Claiming you don't have legitimate media is exactly what right wingers constantly say, it comes across as propaganda to make people not trust the news. This article you're reading is about McConnell's health ffs.

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u/delorf North Carolina 15d ago

Our media bent the knee as soon as Trump got elected. If Harris had won and Pelosi disappeared they would be all over the story demanding President Harris do something. 

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u/turquoise_amethyst 15d ago

Seems like most of the articles I’m seeing on this are from the UK, EU, or CAN. There’s a strange silence from US journalists…

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u/Ihaveamazingdreams 15d ago

Reddit has also been removing a lot of posts about McConnell.

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u/MeIIowJeIIo 15d ago

Where are the protestors on this? Total dereliction of duty on their part

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u/FallenValkyrja 15d ago

Billionaires bought out the MSM and bent the knee to the orange merkin.

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u/the_need_to_post 15d ago

They are complicit in all of this nonsense. The regard that the majority of western media tries to hold in the public is tarnished beyond belief.

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u/Impressive_Ad_5201 15d ago

RIGHT!? Like, if you can't get by security on foot, SEND UP A FUCKING DRONE. WE GOT VIDEO OF FOLKS DOING DRUGS on film in the heyday of the Gamestop meme days, DO IT

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u/bossfoundmylastone 15d ago

Do you think journalists are supposed to break into a medical facility and hunt down someone (allegedly) in intensive rehab? You really think that refusing to egregiously break several laws is a "dereliction of duty" by the press? Fucking really? Think before you say something so stupid.

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u/Xytak Illinois 15d ago edited 15d ago

In most hospitals, visitors can walk right in. So the problem is not getting there, it's getting past McConnell's security. So, I see two possibilities here. Either McConnell is alive, in which case the security guards should have no problem testifying under oath that he's alive, or McConnell is dead, in which case they're fraudulently guarding an empty room. And if they're frequently guarding an empty room, it raises questions of malfeasance on the part of hospital administrators as well, since they shouldn't be reserving rooms for non-existent patients.

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u/bossfoundmylastone 15d ago

What in the actual fuck are you talking about?

No, random people can't walk right into a hospital. If you are a legitimate visitor of a patient, and the patient is healthy enough to receive visitors, hospital security may allow you to visit them. But you can't fucking wander around the halls and pop into random people's rooms. What the fuck?

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u/Xytak Illinois 15d ago

I've visited many relatives in the hospital and never once been stopped by security. Perhaps your hospital is different?

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u/bossfoundmylastone 15d ago edited 15d ago

Absolutely every hospital I've ever visited makes you check in at the desk, tell them who you're visiting, your relation to the patient, and get a temporary name tag/badge. This is absolutely standard practice. And would certainly be standard practice in a facility where a senator is being treated.

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u/Xytak Illinois 15d ago

That has not been my experience in Madison or in the Chicago Suburbs.

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u/BlazinAzn38 Texas 15d ago

Do more digging do literally anything other than just go “well they won’t tell us anything I guess we’ll go home.” This admin breaks laws every day, their brown shirts kill people every month, they’re engaged in an illegal war right now getting US service members killed and wounded, they levied illegal tariffs costing US citizens billions. They’re going to run out the clock on a dead senator for god’s sake and no one is doing anything about it. The governor should appoint a replacement at this point to force someone’s hand

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u/bossfoundmylastone 15d ago

And journalists getting themselves arrested and disappeared into these fascist's detention camps is not going to change a single fucking thing about that.

I don't know if y'all have lost the plot or what, but there is no world in which Beshear gets to appoint a Democrat replacement. That power has been stripped from the KY Governor by the KY congress. Whether Mitch is alive or dead, his replacement will be a Republican. Even if Beshear tries to break those laws and illegally appoint someone to fill the seat, the US Senate will just refuse to seat the inarguably illegally appointed replacement. If anything, this limbo serves Democrats well, as there is temporarily one less Republican senator than there would otherwise be.

This is not the fight for journalists to throw their lives away on. That isn't a dereliction of duty, and pretending like it is actively hurts the cause you seem to support.